How will schools be able to go back in September?

wirelessdude01

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think any other sector put out so many preconditions before talks on implementation even started. Department for education is poor but no other sector union or organisation approached things less constructively. Everyone else seems to be able suggest how things can be done, teachers unions come out first with what can't be done. I'm sorry but instead of criticizing media reaction you might look at unions. Being realistic only works when you are also constructive. Just being realistic and whinge doesn't resolve anything.

Can't speak for the secondary unions but I do know that the INTO were asked for and then provided a submission document. Have to say it was an excellently put together piece. Pulled together all the issues. Guess what, it has been ignored. It's available on their website if you want to have a look.

A principals group called the Irish Principals Forum also have supplied the dept with some solutions to issues that they can see will occur. That has also been ignored. The people on the ground are trying to provide solutions but the dept haven't responded. As I have already said numerous times on here, I suspect that the dept will try to avoid having concrete stuff down on paper as that will require funding. The more wishy washy the better for them as the famous 'local arrangements' line can be used then which more or less means that the schools have to sort things for themselves. This will then lead to people saying that X school did this so why didn't Y school also do it.

iamwhoiam

Millem wrote: »

How many kids in total to 2 carers?

From what I saw there were 8 or 9 kids with two play carers . I just saw one pod and not sure about the other pods .

History Queen

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think any other sector put out so many preconditions before talks on implementation even started. Department for education is poor but no other sector union or organisation approached things less constructively. Everyone else seems to be able suggest how things can be done, teachers unions come out first with what can't be done. I'm sorry but instead of criticizing media reaction you might look at unions. Being realistic only works when you are also constructive. Just being realistic and whinge doesn't resolve anything.

They reacted to the public health guidelines and pointed out why they will be problematic to implement in schools and what will need to be done to allow schools to reopen. What do u think they should have done instead? Waited til the end of August when schools open and send kids home because the guidelines aren't workable? Said "ya grand", ignored public health guidelines and let students and staff return to school with nothing? Just for a quiet life? Seriously??!

Edit: also they HAVE made suggestions as to how to overcome these problems, these suggestions cost money (more staff/PPE/hand washing facilities/sanatiser etc) so they are ignored

wirelessdude01

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I just dropped a child off to a summer camp . Kids in pods of 8-10 .Two carers with no masks, temps taken on arrival and hands sanitized . The carers are not distancing and kids mixing with each other but not with the other pods . All the kids seemed to be under 8 or 9 . They are going by the book and by recommendation and parents signed a waiver regarding Covid
Th e kids all were excited and happy to be among peers .

Extrapolate that out into an average classroom. That would mean 5 teachers per class.

iamwhoiam

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Extrapolate that out into an average classroom. That would mean 5 teachers per class.

Summer camps always have more carers , the take trips , do activities etc . The carer / child ratio was always higher
Last year I know they had 20 or so kids with 3-4 carers . Its always been a higher ratio in camps and after school care
They are not comparable situations

Millem

iamwhoiam wrote: »

From what I saw there were 8 or 9 kids with two play carers . I just saw one pod and not sure about the other pods .

Oh wow so 2 carers per pod!
If primary schools were to go by that.......that is a lot of extra staff!!!

iamwhoiam

Millem wrote: »

Oh wow so 2 carers per pod!
If primary schools were to go by that.......that is a lot of extra staff!!!

No see above . Summer camps always have more staff

History Queen

iamwhoiam wrote: »

No see above . Summer camps always have more staff

Even if you had one adult per pod (of that size) in a school setting it is a huge amount more staff

iamwhoiam

History Queen wrote: »

Even if you had one adult per pod (of that size) in a school setting it is a huge amount more staff

I don’t think they are comparable to be honest . The summet camps always have more carers or young people helping out . Don’t forget its a private enterprise and parents pay for the camps . They bring them out and bake and do activities etc
They always , long before Covid , had a lot of staff

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Can't speak for the secondary unions but I do know that the INTO were asked for and then provided a submission document. Have to say it was an excellently put together piece. Pulled together all the issues. Guess what, it has been ignored. It's available on their website if you want to have a look.

A principals group called the Irish Principals Forum also have supplied the dept with some solutions to issues that they can see will occur. That has also been ignored. The people on the ground are trying to provide solutions but the dept haven't responded. As I have already said numerous times on here, I suspect that the dept will try to avoid having concrete stuff down on paper as that will require funding. The more wishy washy the better for them as the famous 'local arrangements' line can be used then which more or less means that the schools have to sort things for themselves. This will then lead to people saying that X school did this so why didn't Y school also do it.

If this is the document you're referring to the INTO have largely put it back on the schools to arrange

https://www.into.ie/app/uploads/2019/07/2020_06_23_INTOGuide_Covid_SaferSchools.pdf

History Queen

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I don’t think they are comparable to be honest . The summet camps always have more carers or young people helping out . Don’t forget its a private enterprise and parents pay for the camps . They bring them out and bake and do activities etc
They always , long before Covid , had a lot of staff

I completely appreciate that and was just thinking aloud more than anything with all the talks of pods etc what it might look like. Realistically I don't think we have the teachers at either side of the education sector to staff pods even at ratios of 15 or so to 1 so it wouldn't be a runner.

average_runner

Millem wrote: »

Oh wow so 2 carers per pod!
If primary schools were to go by that.......that is a lot of extra staff!!!

Why would primary schools go by that?

In all sports and sports camp you are meant to have one person for every 8 kids anyhow. Same thing doesn't happen in the schools

meeeeh

History Queen wrote: »

Even if you had one adult per pod (of that size) in a school setting it is a huge amount more staff

Why would you need an adult per pod?

scrubs33

Where are the JMB in all this? Normally they are quick to have their say but nothing so far from what I can see?

average_runner

meeeeh wrote: »

Why would you need an adult per pod?

Schools don't do pods, sport always has

average_runner

All the kids in our gaa bring their own water bottle and hand sanitizer. These kids are 7 years old. Why can't the kids bring their own to the schools?

meeeeh

Lillyfae wrote: »

If this is the document you're referring to the INTO have largely put it back on the schools to arrange

https://www.into.ie/app/uploads/2019/07/2020_06_23_INTOGuide_Covid_SaferSchools.pdf

Excluding the section on how teachers should be able to take holidays, most of the stuff is every company had to do after reopening. Those instructions are widely available for months and one would assume that any organisation would be implementing them anyway. (Staggered breaks are not mentioned I think but they could be looked at).

average_runner

meeeeh wrote: »

Excluding the section on how teachers should be able to take holidays, most of the stuff is every company had to do after reopening. Those instructions are widely available for months and one would assume that any organisation would be implementing them anyway. (Staggered breaks are not mentioned I think but they could be looked at).

Alot of this is basic and should be there already.

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

Schools don't do pods, sport always has

Actually we have been told to in the HSE guidance.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

If this is the document you're referring to the INTO have largely put it back on the schools to arrange

https://www.into.ie/app/uploads/2019/07/2020_06_23_INTOGuide_Covid_SaferSchools.pdf

No it is this one.

https://www.into.ie/app/uploads/2020/05/Key-Issues-COVID-19_Web.pdf

This is a shorter version than the one I was privy to prior to it being submitted.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Actually we have been told to in the HSE guidance.

Interesting, as our kids school has announced their teachers for next year, the class room etc. Expecting to be all back in that classroom together in Sept in an email from the principal.


Kids will be playing matches by the time they are back in school, so pods in a school is pointless

Millem

average_runner wrote: »

Why would primary schools go by that?

In all sports and sports camp you are meant to have one person for every 8 kids anyhow. Same thing doesn't happen in the schools

The camp has 2 staff to 8 kids so their staffing has doubled?

iamwhoiam

Millem wrote: »

The camp has 2 staff to 8 kids so their staffing has doubled?

Our local summer camp has always had two to 8-10 kids . One might be a teenager to help out with activities

average_runner

Millem wrote: »

The camp has 2 staff to 8 kids so their staffing has doubled?

Minimum is one per 8, but most would have more in case one of the 8 need to go to the toilet. In sport it would be 2/3 per 12 kids

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

Interesting, as our kids school has announced their teachers for next year, the class room etc. Expecting to be all back in that classroom together in Sept in an email from the principal.


Kids will be playing matches by the time they are back in school, so pods in a school is pointless

Every school in the country has announced the class teachers, where known, for next year. The HSE mentioned pods within classes and that classes are to become bubbles. No contact with other classes. These requirements have led to a good few schools that I know of informing their parents that there will be no after-school activities facilitated next year and that those schools won't be partaking in interschool competitions(sports, quizzes, etc) if they do take place.

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

No it is this one.

https://www.into.ie/app/uploads/2020/05/Key-Issues-COVID-19_Web.pdf

This is a shorter version than the one I was privy to prior to it being submitted.

Thanks. The physical distancing section is a bit wishy washy. "We know it's impossible, but it's a key issue". Handwashing, classes not mixing and a good cleaning regimen and it won't be necessary anyway.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

These requirements have led to a good few schools that I know of informing their parents that there will be no after-school activities facilitated next year and that those schools won't be partaking in interschool competitions(sports, quizzes, etc) if they do take place.

This should be the least of their worries.

lulublue22

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Every school in the country has announced the class teachers, where known, for next year. The HSE mentioned pods within classes and that classes are to become bubbles. No contact with other classes. These requirements have led to a good few schools that I know of informing their parents that there will be no after-school activities facilitated next year and that those schools won't be partaking in interschool competitions(sports, quizzes, etc) if they do take place.

Ditto our school has let parents know class teachers for next year and we are working from HSE advice re pods and creating class bubbles.

ETA - any school I know has been working on a return to school plan for September. Most are trying to implement HSE advice re pods and bubbles. What we are waiting for is confirmation from dep re social distancing , use of masks and or ppe , clarity around sick leave and some clarity for immunocompromised children and staff.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

This should be the least of their worries.

After-school activities in many schools are viewed as cheap child care. I run one in my school and parents will openly say this.

Murple

average_runner wrote: »

Interesting, as our kids school has announced their teachers for next year, the class room etc. Expecting to be all back in that classroom together in Sept in an email from the principal.


Kids will be playing matches by the time they are back in school, so pods in a school is pointless

Will they be playing matches of close to 6 hours in length in two teams of 15 on a mini indoor playing pitch with a low ceiling and limited ventilation?

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Every school in the country has announced the class teachers, where known, for next year. The HSE mentioned pods within classes and that classes are to become bubbles. No contact with other classes. These requirements have led to a good few schools that I know of informing their parents that there will be no after-school activities facilitated next year and that those schools won't be partaking in interschool competitions(sports, quizzes, etc) if they do take place.

So no inter school sports but they are ok for kids to be playing all the sports in the evenings and weekends?