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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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    #5102
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    So you can tell the future so?
    Along with yesterday's mind reading, this girl really is good!


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    #5103
    Bananaleaf
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Why would you even say it if you know the funds aren't there to do the experiment, to make a cheap point by involving kids in a funding issue?

    If one of mine came home saying this then the teacher would be getting the opposite of support, cheap easy shots and using kids and parents too.

    So the solution is to piss students and parents off so they call the principal?

    Apologies, I possibly should have calrified this but didn't think to, to be honest.
    I just used the experiment story as an example, but the point I would be making would be in relation to things that were actually needed to fulfil examination requirements for example.

    Would I say it if it were an experiment that I just wanted to do because I thought it was good, but I could totally do something else that I did have the equipment for? God, no. That would be petty

    I'm talking about a teacher lacking necessary equipment, something that, if the students didn't have access to it, they would be at a disadvantage in their state examinations.


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    #5104
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,108 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Bananaleaf wrote: »
    Apologies, I possibly should have calrified this but didn't think to, to be honest.
    I just used the experiment story as an example, but the point I would be making would be in relation to things that were actually needed to fulfil examination requirements for example.

    Would I say it if it were an experiment that I just wanted to do because I thought it was good, but I could totally do something else that I did have the equipment for? God, no. That would be petty

    I'm talking about a teacher lacking necessary equipment, something that, if the students didn't have access to it, they would be at a disadvantage in their state examinations.

    Surely you go to parents with any difficulty with equipment and not tell your pupils to go home and whinge at home about it ?
    I genuinely don’t understand anyone defending that post


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    #5105
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    The agenda is to clearly use the students..

    two wrongs dont make a right. If there is a funding issue then the teachers need to be making noise about it. They need to be making it known to their schools, to their employer.

    Teachers and parents could be joining forces here for the benefit of students.


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    #5106
    Bananaleaf
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Surely you go to parents with any difficulty with equipment and not tell your pupils to go home and whinge at home about it ?

    Well, first of all, I would never speak to my students like that. I would never use that language with them. Not trying to make myself out to be Robin Williams in The Dead Poet's Society or anything, but my students know exactly how much I care about their education (which is probably why I could get away with saying it to them)

    But to answer your question very honestly, no I wouldn't call parents. If I have a class of 30 students, that would mean calling 30 parents. Do you have any idea how long that would take? I genuinely would not have the time to do that.

    Note that I said 'I would' use this approach. I never have. But I totally would if it came to it. I would exhaust every other option first, including emailing my principal, because if there is one thing they hate as much as annoyed parents, it's having things sent to them in writing!

    The teacher is doing this for the students!!! They're not looking for 30 beakers to bring home so they can store their lentils in them or whatever :confused::confused:


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    #5107
    Bananaleaf
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    jrosen wrote: »
    The agenda is to clearly use the students..

    two wrongs dont make a right. If there is a funding issue then the teachers need to be making noise about it. They need to be making it known to their schools, to their employer.

    Teachers and parents could be joining forces here for the benefit of students.

    What, like a strike? :pac:


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    #5108
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    jrosen wrote: »
    The agenda is to clearly use the students..

    two wrongs dont make a right. If there is a funding issue then the teachers need to be making noise about it. They need to be making it known to their schools, to their employer.

    Teachers and parents could be joining forces here for the benefit of students.

    Teachers and parents should be joining forces, it has been mentioned many times in this thread. The Department shows little interest in funding education at the best of times and even now in a pandemic, maybe it is about time they banded together.

    Teachers have for years tried to point out shortages but the Departments attitude is that is a local issue so maybe making it a national issue pu forward by parents and teachers something could be done.


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    #5109
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,108 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Bananaleaf wrote: »
    Well, first of all, I would never speak to my students like that. I would never use that language with them. Not trying to make myself out to be Robin Williams in The Dead Poet's Society or anything, but my students know exactly how much I care about their education (which is probably why I could get away with saying it to them)

    But to answer your question very honestly, no I wouldn't call parents. If I have a class of 30 students, that would mean calling 30 parents. Do you have any idea how long that would take? I genuinely would not have the time to do that.

    Note that I said 'I would' use this approach. I never have. But I totally would if it came to it. I would exhaust every other option first, including emailing my principal, because if there is one thing they hate as much as annoyed parents, it's having things sent to them in writing!

    The teacher is doing this for the students!!! They're not looking for 30 beakers to bring home so they can store their lentils in them or whatever :confused::confused:

    Look I understand your point but am appalled by anyone trying to justify using children for their own agenda .
    And I don’t think I mentioned anything about calling parents ? i was thinking more on the lines of e mailing them ! It certainly is preferable to sending the children home to whinge about it


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    #5110
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭History Queen


    jrosen wrote: »
    The agenda is to clearly use the students..

    two wrongs dont make a right. If there is a funding issue then the teachers need to be making noise about it. They need to be making it known to their schools, to their employer.

    Teachers and parents could be joining forces here for the benefit of students.

    We do make it known in our schools and the Dept. Endlessly. The Dept of Education ignore us. The media/public dont want to know about it. Just look at the way teachers are being made out to be unreasonable at the moment because we are looking for funding for PPE/handwashing facilities/extra staff etc. People are twisting it to seem like we are lazy layabouts looking for time off and more money when that is patently untrue. Teachers are not valued by society in Ireland and not believed when we ask for resources, that's why schools ask for voluntary contributions.


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    #5111
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    I'll give another example that has happened to me. I had a laptop that was about 10-12yrs old. Really outdated and not up to modern use in a classroom. I repeatedly asked for a new one as it wasn't fit for purpose. Got nowhere within the school. No money was the answer which was and is true. I repeatedly gave out stink to the class about it. Guess what, a few parents approached the principal complaining about how for instance their child's teacher couldn't proper access and use the available gaeilge resources due to the poor equipment their child's teacher had been given. Miraculously a new laptop was on my desk within a few weeks compliments of a parent who worked in a tech company who arranged a sponsored one. Wouldn't have happened without being vocal about things.

    The use of the word whinge is the incorrect word to have used but parents need to be vocalised about these things. Most of them are completely ignorant of what little funding we receive.


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    #5112
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Look I understand your point but am appalled by anyone trying to justify using children for their own agenda .

    How is the chronic under funding of our schools and my place of employment and the possible place where your children are educated my own agenda? I fight tooth and nail for the children in my classes,.always have and always will. If that means being vocal the so be it.

    What has sitting back and accepting things got us?


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    #5113
    Bananaleaf
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    I'll give another example that has happened to me. I had a laptop that was about 10-12yrs old. Really outdated and not up to modern use in a classroom. I repeatedly asked for a new one as it wasn't fit for purpose. Got nowhere within the school. No money was the answer which was and is true. I repeatedly gave out stink to the class about it. Guess what, a few parents approached the principal complaining about how for instance their child's teacher couldn't proper access and use the available gaeilge resources due to the poor equipment their child's teacher had been given. Miraculously a new laptop was on my desk within a few weeks compliments of a parent who worked in a tech company who arranged a sponsored one. Wouldn't have happened without being vocal about things.

    The use of the word whinge is the incorrect word to have used but parents need to be vocalised about these things. Most of them are completely ignorant of what little funding we receive.

    And before anyone asks why we would expect to be given a laptop from the school - due to GDPR and child protection issues, we are not allowed to use devices that are not school issued. If you're in an ETB, if they get things working the way they want there will be further restrictions on this, but that is for another thread


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    #5114
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,108 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    How is the chronic under funding of our schools and my place of employment and the possible place where your children are educated my own agenda? I fight tooth and nail for the children in my classes,.always have and always will. If that means being vocal the so be it.

    What has sitting back and accepting things got us?
    There is being vocal and proactive and there is using kids to make a point . No comparison .
    I worked with sick children all my life and was vocal when they needed anything . I would lay down my life for them before I would use them to fight the cause


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    #5115
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    History Queen wrote: »
    We do. Endlessly. The Dept of Education ignore us. The media/public dont want to know about it. Just look at the way teachers are being made out to be unreasonable at the moment because we are looking for funding for PPE/handwashing facilities/extra staff etc. People are twisting it to seem like we are lazy layabouts looking for time off and more money when that is patently untrue. Teachers are not valued by society in Ireland and not believed when we ask for resources, that's why schools ask for voluntary contributions.

    If you do and Im not saying you dont, then how do parents not know? Because I didnt and while im on this I asked my friends on our group chat do any of them pay vol contributions and did they know what its for. 1 out of 6 said they are asked for it. All schools in Dublin. She had no idea what it was for. Ive asked did they know that their teachers are possibly funding classroom material themselves and they have said no.

    So out of 7 mums none of us knew. Thats 7 different schools spanning Dublin north and south side.

    I dont think teachers are not valued in society. I think parents have issues with alot of what is wrong with the education system and teachers get the brunt of it.


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    #5116
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    I'll give another example that has happened to me. I had a laptop that was about 10-12yrs old. Really outdated and not up to modern use in a classroom. I repeatedly asked for a new one as it wasn't fit for purpose. Got nowhere within the school. No money was the answer which was and is true. I repeatedly gave out stink to the class about it. Guess what, a few parents approached the principal complaining about how for instance their child's teacher couldn't proper access and use the available gaeilge resources due to the poor equipment their child's teacher had been given. Miraculously a new laptop was on my desk within a few weeks compliments of a parent who worked in a tech company who arranged a sponsored one. Wouldn't have happened without being vocal about things.

    The use of the word whinge is the incorrect word to have used but parents need to be vocalised about these things. Most of them are completely ignorant of what little funding we receive.

    I still dont agree with your approach.


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    #5117
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    jrosen wrote: »
    I still dont agree with your approach.

    As I already said each to their own and the vast majority of the parents that I come in contact with appreciate my way of doing things. Straight up and no bullsh!t.


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    #5118
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    jrosen wrote: »
    If you do and Im not saying you dont, then how do parents not know? Because I didnt and while im on this I asked my friends on our group chat do any of them pay vol contributions and did they know what its for. 1 out of 6 said they are asked for it. All schools in Dublin. She had no idea what it was for. Ive asked did they know that their teachers are possibly funding classroom material themselves and they have said no.

    So out of 7 mums none of us knew. Thats 7 different schools spanning Dublin north and south side.

    I dont think teachers are not valued in society. I think parents have issues with alot of what is wrong with the education system and teachers get the brunt of it.

    Why would they know? Writing an article about chronic under funding of education wouldn't create clickbait advertising revenue for the like of The Irish Times or TheJournaldotie.


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    #5119
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭History Queen


    jrosen wrote: »
    If you do and Im not saying you dont, then how do parents not know? Because I didnt and while im on this I asked my friends on our group chat do any of them pay vol contributions and did they know what its for. 1 out of 6 said they are asked for it. All schools in Dublin. She had no idea what it was for. Ive asked did they know that their teachers are possibly funding classroom material themselves and they have said no.

    So out of 7 mums none of us knew. Thats 7 different schools spanning Dublin north and south side.

    I dont think teachers are not valued in society. I think parents have issues with alot of what is wrong with the education system and teachers get the brunt of it.

    Well currently we are crying out for schools to be made safe enough to return to full time teaching yet the media narrative is that we are workshy layabouts... so the media probably have a part to pay, poor communication strategies from our unions also play a part, they are absolutely fighting for the right things right now (I'm often critical of them but all 3 are pretty much on song at the moment) but the public are being swayed by the media twist of the narrative. Again, partially due to poor union communication strategies.

    At congress every year my union tables lots of motions looking for adequate school funding, every year the media cover the union congress, every year they ignore the funding motions. They never make the headlines.


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    #5120
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    As I already said each to their own and the vast majority of the parents that I come in contact with appreciate my way of doing things. Straight up and no bullsh!t.

    You used the kids to do your bidding (kids you are paid to teach) and a parent got you a new laptop.

    So what did you achieve other than a new laptop that someone else other than the department paid for?

    "I repeatedly gave out stink to the class about it". Good use of class time, I pity your students.

    Parent probably did it to stop you moaning at their kids about your crap laptop.


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    #5121
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    History Queen wrote: »
    Well currently we are crying out for schools to be made safe enough to return to full time teaching yet the media narrative is that we are workshy layabouts... so the media probably have a part to pay, poor communication strategies from our unions also play a part, they are absolutely fighting for the right things right now (I'm often critical of them but all 3 are pretty much on song at the moment) but the public are being swayed by the media twist of the narrative. Again, partially due to poor union communication strategies.

    At congress every year my union tables lots of motions looking for adequate school funding, every year the media cover the union congress, every year they ignore the funding motions. They never make the headlines.

    The likes of Carl O'Brien(IT), Ciara Kelly(Newstalk) and Jennifer O'Connell(IT) have alot to answer for with regards to the current narrative. Spiteful isn't a stong enough word to describe their collective attitude to teachers.


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    #5122
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    You used the kids to do your bidding (kids you are paid to teach) and a parent got you a new laptop.

    Probably did it to stop you moaning at their kids about your crap laptop.

    You're welcome that your kids might now be able to access the relevant gaeilge content in the proper manner via my school equipment, not my own laptop.


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    #5123
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭History Queen


    These tweets give you a sense of the futility of what is going on:


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    #5124
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

    So what did you achieve other than a new laptop that someone else other than the department paid for?

    Well I have the respect of my parents but I've always had that 🀫


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    #5125
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,108 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    You're welcome that your kids might now be able to access the relevant gaeilge content in the proper manner via my school equipment, not my own laptop.

    You really need to stop digging an even bigger hole


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    #5126
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Well I have the respect of my parents but I've always had that 🀫

    Yes I’m sure your Mammy and Daddy are very proud of you 🙄


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    #5127
    Bananaleaf
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Why would they know? Writing an article about chronic under funding of education wouldn't create clickbait advertising revenue for the like of The Irish Times or TheJournaldotie.

    So true. The articles are there and always have been, but in fairness you'd have to be looking for them to find them. Edited to add: That's not me being sarcastic, you genuinely need to do a bit of searching to find them

    https://www.rte.ie/news/budget-2019/2018/1009/1002022-education-budget/

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/underfunding-of-schools-poses-threat-to-quality-of-education-950422.html

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/jess-casey-reopening-irish-schools-will-be-anything-but-childs-play-1002542.html

    https://www.clareecho.ie/schools-reopening-crippled-by-chronic-under-investment-as-dept-of-education-frustrate-teachers/


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    #5128
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Yes I’m sure your Mammy and Daddy are very proud of you 🙄

    Actually yes they are. Are yours?


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    #5129
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    History Queen wrote: »
    These tweets give you a sense of the futility of what is going on:

    I'd imagine it's going to get a lot worse if they don't manage to get things ready so schools can open in September.


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    #5130
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    I'd imagine it's going to get a lot worse if they don't manage to get things ready so schools can open in September.

    And wouldn't it be great if those people complaining about teachers (off for 6 months, put them on the Covid, yadda yadda) used the time to instead put pressure on the Govt to fund schools properly? If they want schools back then that's a far better way to go about it.


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    #5131
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    I'd imagine it's going to get a lot worse if they don't manage to get things ready so schools can open in September.

    Once again we are waiting on The DOE to provide guidance. I'm adamant that the department will try to avoid anything worthwhile being down on paper as that would require funding.

    Round in circles we go.


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