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How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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khalessi

jrosen wrote: »

I suppose when people have negative experiences they are far more likely to be vocal about it than those with positive.

Parents had varying levels of interaction from their teachers and schools. Some were great, some were not.

Yes people had different experiences, myself included, I was working daily puuting in very long hours while my kids teacher sent the weekly email and put up exercises on seesaw but never once linked to a video or put up an explanation to explain any of the maths, luckily I could deal with that because of my profession and pointed that out when BOM sent a survey.

It is time to put that aside, the schools are now on holiday and the Department has still to issue guidelines and have only so far offered to buy santizer which the schools will have to buy initially themselves and get reimbursed at a later date.

As parents we are all experiencing this and seeing the Department say there are no funds for moving forward. The unions are being blamed bbut yet they put in suggestions for reopening- ignored. The teachers blamed but the principals sent in a document of suggestions on reopeinging -ignored.

Maybe together they cant ignore us to get our schools reopened safely

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

I suppose when people have negative experiences they are far more likely to be vocal about it than those with positive.

Parents had varying levels of interaction from their teachers and schools. Some were great, some were not.

There is being vocal(like I am) but being spiteful on a national/public platform writing and saying utter garbage needs to be called out. Like the lady who wrote that post I too have replied to tweets from Ciara Kelly's show saying I would be more than happy to go on the air but no reply. Her producers seem to carefully select people to go on the air that either agree with her or that she can easily manipulate alongside the regular contributors who I suspect could be/are friends/family of newstalk staff.

jrosen

I suppose when people have negative experiences they are far more likely to be vocal about it than those with positive.

Parents had varying levels of interaction from their teachers and schools. Some were great, some were not.

wirelessdude01

Taken from a post that has gone viral on Facebook.

A long read, but worthwhile if you are looking for facts on teachers and schools, opposed to the media spin that is currently circulating.

Teachers will return to schools in September!
(A piece that is based on facts not opinion.)

It didn’t take long before certain journalists and media personalities decided to write ill-informed and poorly researched articles on the Covid-19 culprits who are of course the teachers of Ireland. I’m sure the quality of their journalism will eventually conclude that a teacher ate a bat and is to blame for the pandemic that has impacted upon and disrupted all of our lives!! As a teacher, I am tired of the media spin and ill-informed articles that have been written by Jennifer O’ Connell of the Irish Times, Katherine Donnelly of the Irish Independent and of course our latest expert on education, Dr Ciara Kelly who is using her platform to slate us at every opportunity. I wouldn’t have a problem if they had bothered to do their homework and were presenting actual facts rather than click bait headlines and populist opinion pieces. As a teacher, I certainly wouldn’t be giving them high marks on their assignments and would be asking them to cite their sources!

The schools had barely closed their doors when Ciara Kelly decided to tweet that many teachers were out celebrating when the schools closed. Apparently, she had it on good authority. Did you Ciara? Because the mood in my own school was far from celebratory. In fact, it was quite eery and sobering. My 6th class were 11 days away from making their Confirmation and were crestfallen that it was more than likely going to be postponed. At that point we thought we would be back after the Easter holidays.

I went home that evening and researched different educational platforms, as did my esteemed colleagues. According to Jennifer O’Connell, we only e-mailed home the homework once a week, and just about glanced at it. Well Jennifer, I can assure you that in my school and many others, this was most certainly not the case. I wonder are the three personalities I have mentioned above familiar with the different educational platforms that extend far beyond e-mail. Microsoft Teams, Google Classroom, Seesaw, Edmodo and Class Dojo to name but a few. Our own school quickly decided that we would all use the same platform and ensured Microsoft Teams was fully set up for the pupils to access. This allowed us to create different sections, upload videos, distribute assignments and engage with the pupils and parents directly and effectively. Blended learning is far from ideal, but we did the best we could whilst also taking into account the different home situations pupils found themselves in.

I wonder if Ciara or Jennifer have for a second considered that some pupils may not have access to Wi-Fi or that there may be only one device between a couple of children at home making distance learning difficult. Factor that in with parents working at home who may also need access to the same device, and you realise some families are in impossible situations.

However as difficult as the situations were, the parents in our school were incredible. Thankfully, there is a culture where we work together and strive to do the best for our students. Unfortunately, certain personalities are using their platforms to create a wedge between parents and teachers. I wouldn’t have a problem if they had fact-based evidence, but they don’t even seem to realise there is more than one teacher’s union. The TUI are the only union that have threatened strike action and they are a post-primary union as are the ASTI. Post-Primary schools were also presented with a very difficult task in giving pupils their Leaving Certificate grades. At no point did I hear of refusal from teachers to engage with this process as challenging as this was. The primary school teacher’s union is the INTO and at no point have we threatened strike over going back to school. In fact, there is very little consultation between unions and teachers, and during the pandemic, we heard everything through the media first.

Teachers want to go back. Teachers have been working throughout this process and have not been using it as a holiday. Teachers did not close the schools and did not cause this pandemic!! I am so disheartened that we as a group are constantly made scapegoats, and I find some of the recent journalism in the Independent and the Irish Times cheap, lazy, and disrespectful. In fact, if some of those ‘journalists’ were my pupils I’d be giving them feedback to get their facts correct, and I would be telling Jennifer O’ Connell that comparing hair salons to classrooms is like comparing apples and oranges. It is very unfair to bring a totally different profession into this; a profession that are operating differently to how they did pre-Covid and would never have two customers sitting side by side as our pupils would be in the classroom. I would never write about a profession I have no experience in, and it would be easy for me to take a cheap shot back and say it must be easy for journalists to write about us. However, I don’t know enough about journalism or indeed any profession outside of education, so I’ll stick to what I do know. I suggest Ciara Kelly and Jennifer O’Connell do the same, or at least give their comments some credibility.

At the heart of all of this are our children and their safety. Many parents have genuine fears and anxieties about their children returning to school. Some children themselves are terrified. Many teachers are also parents who have been teaching online as well as home-schooling. All we are asking for is clear guidelines so we can give absolute reassurance to parents and children that their safety is paramount, because when all is said and done, it is the well-being and safety of the children we have a duty of care to, that must be prioritised.

As teachers we work extremely hard, and we are not looking for any credit, but we are also no longer going to stand for teacher bashing, especially when journalists can’t even check their facts. ‘Teacher’s dash hopes of school return,’ was another clickbait headline used by Katherine Donnelly of the Independent newspaper. It’s actually laughable that these pieces aren’t scrutinised before they go to print. Any teacher I know just wants to get back. Every teacher in Ireland will be in their classroom when September returns. We just need clear guidance on how to cater for our pupils.

Recently my class won an award for their Junior Entrepreneur Project which quite fittingly was called ‘Let’s Talk About It.’ They won the ‘Change Agents’ award, and I know the book will help a lot of people. They were courageous enough to share their stories. As a teacher I am always telling them to stand up for themselves in a healthy way, and their bravery has inspired me to do the same for our profession. Let’s talk about it! Let’s get our facts right. Let’s stop the blame game and let’s work together to get our children back to a safe school environment.

I have tweeted a reply to Dr Ciara Kelly offering to go on Newstalk and present the facts to her, but she has not responded, and is clearly just interested in creating her own spin. As a qualified doctor, I find it appalling that her populist opinion is more important than medical advice and guidance from our experts.
Teachers will be in their classrooms come the end of August. Please give us clear guidelines to cater for the pupils who are at the heart of this situation.

Kate O’ Callaghan
Clogheen KerryPike National School
Cork

History Queen

jrosen wrote: »

Im sure if parents knew the full extent many would be happy to. But if teachers continue to bridge the gap and the schools dont communicate to their parents how are parents to know or help.

We fundraise several times a year in our school and usually get lots of complaints about constantly having the hand out. When we say what it is for the grumbling (at us) doesn't stop. But I do agree with you schools should probably be more explicit about what exactly the funding is for so parents can see just how bad the situation is.

Edit: just to say I don't blame parents for complaining. They shouldn't have to fund the school like this, the Dept should. The teachers contribute to the fundraisers every year too, we jokingly call it our "termly tax for being employed in xxx school "

jrosen

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

And wouldn't it be great if those people complaining about teachers (off for 6 months, put them on the Covid, yadda yadda) used the time to instead put pressure on the Govt to fund schools properly? If they want schools back then that's a far better way to go about it.

Im sure if parents knew the full extent many would be happy to. But if teachers continue to bridge the gap and the schools dont communicate to their parents how are parents to know or help.

wirelessdude01

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Do they not already do enough through taxation, financial contributions and supporting what seems like weekly fundraising and sponsorship?

I think if anything is to change then its the illusion that children in this country get free education.

I'd be more than happy to pay if I thought it benefitted the children and stopped teachers having to put their hand in their own pockets (I completely disagree with this and it should never happen).

The problem is there would be uproar if parents were asked to pay more. Some of them just don't value education because its a given, it's taken for granted.

The way education is viewed by some people is wrong and as a result they would not justify paying for it.

The money has to come from somewhere.

How are you getting that more money from parents is what we are looking for from that post? PRESSURE on the Government to provide funding is what we want. Funding to keep your children safe, the school staff safe.

Everyone says that children don't get sick from Covid, let's take that as gospel. The staff in a school can still get sick. Now imagine that your child's school has to close due to an outbreak amongst the staff due to the fact that the department didn't provide the required funding for stuff? Back to remote teaching then all due to a relatively small amount of funding.

BonsaiKitten

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Do they not already do enough through taxation, financial contributions and supporting what seems like weekly fundraising and sponsorship?

I think if anything is to change then its the illusion that children in this country get free education.

I'd be more than happy to pay if I thought it benefitted the children and stopped teachers having to put their hand in their own pockets (I completely disagree with this and it should never happen).

The problem is there would be uproar if parents were asked to pay more. Some of them just don't value education because its a given, it's taken for granted.

The way education is viewed by some people is wrong and as a result they would not justify paying for it.

The money has to come from somewhere.

I'm not talking about raising voluntary contributions or anything of the sort.

The Govt won't listen to teachers individually. If anything is going to change then parents need to get involved and also apply pressure. That doesn't need to cost money.

You might say that parents are doing enough and I appreciate that parents are busy. Teachers are busy too. But do you not want your kid in a properly resourced school? Adequate support teachers for kids with special needs, proper funding for materials, more hours for cleaners (and of course the caretakers from earlier in the thread), enough money for heat and light... Everyone wants to ape the famous Finnish system but it costs money which the Govt just don't want to give.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

And wouldn't it be great if those people complaining about teachers (off for 6 months, put them on the Covid, yadda yadda) used the time to instead put pressure on the Govt to fund schools properly? If they want schools back then that's a far better way to go about it.

Do they not already do enough through taxation, financial contributions and supporting what seems like weekly fundraising and sponsorship?

I think if anything is to change then its the illusion that children in this country get free education.

I'd be more than happy to pay if I thought it benefitted the children and stopped teachers having to put their hand in their own pockets (I completely disagree with this and it should never happen).

The problem is there would be uproar if parents were asked to pay more. Some of them just don't value education because its a given, it's taken for granted.

The way education is viewed by some people is wrong and as a result they would not justify paying for it.

The money has to come from somewhere.

History Queen

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I'd imagine it's going to get a lot worse if they don't manage to get things ready so schools can open in September.

I agree. But it would be much more likely to happen if everyone claiming to be so concerned about the schools opening (I mean the "jounalists" spreading venom and nonsense) concentrated their efforts on getting the Department to finance the things that will allow this to happen instead of attacking teachers. The Dept will cave fairly easily under public pressure, look at the LC fiasco (again broadly led by the media).

wirelessdude01

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I'd imagine it's going to get a lot worse if they don't manage to get things ready so schools can open in September.

Once again we are waiting on The DOE to provide guidance. I'm adamant that the department will try to avoid anything worthwhile being down on paper as that would require funding.

Round in circles we go.

BonsaiKitten

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I'd imagine it's going to get a lot worse if they don't manage to get things ready so schools can open in September.

And wouldn't it be great if those people complaining about teachers (off for 6 months, put them on the Covid, yadda yadda) used the time to instead put pressure on the Govt to fund schools properly? If they want schools back then that's a far better way to go about it.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

History Queen wrote: »

These tweets give you a sense of the futility of what is going on:

I'd imagine it's going to get a lot worse if they don't manage to get things ready so schools can open in September.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

Yes I’m sure your Mammy and Daddy are very proud of you ðŸ™„

Actually yes they are. Are yours?

Bananaleaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Why would they know? Writing an article about chronic under funding of education wouldn't create clickbait advertising revenue for the like of The Irish Times or TheJournaldotie.

So true. The articles are there and always have been, but in fairness you'd have to be looking for them to find them. Edited to add: That's not me being sarcastic, you genuinely need to do a bit of searching to find them

https://www.rte.ie/news/budget-2019/2018/1009/1002022-education-budget/

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/underfunding-of-schools-poses-threat-to-quality-of-education-950422.html

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/jess-casey-reopening-irish-schools-will-be-anything-but-childs-play-1002542.html

https://www.clareecho.ie/schools-reopening-crippled-by-chronic-under-investment-as-dept-of-education-frustrate-teachers/

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well I have the respect of my parents but I've always had that ðŸ€«

Yes I’m sure your Mammy and Daddy are very proud of you ðŸ™„

iamwhoiam

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

You're welcome that your kids might now be able to access the relevant gaeilge content in the proper manner via my school equipment, not my own laptop.

You really need to stop digging an even bigger hole

wirelessdude01

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So what did you achieve other than a new laptop that someone else other than the department paid for?

Well I have the respect of my parents but I've always had that ðŸ€«

History Queen

These tweets give you a sense of the futility of what is going on:

wirelessdude01

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

You used the kids to do your bidding (kids you are paid to teach) and a parent got you a new laptop.

Probably did it to stop you moaning at their kids about your crap laptop.

You're welcome that your kids might now be able to access the relevant gaeilge content in the proper manner via my school equipment, not my own laptop.

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

Well currently we are crying out for schools to be made safe enough to return to full time teaching yet the media narrative is that we are workshy layabouts... so the media probably have a part to pay, poor communication strategies from our unions also play a part, they are absolutely fighting for the right things right now (I'm often critical of them but all 3 are pretty much on song at the moment) but the public are being swayed by the media twist of the narrative. Again, partially due to poor union communication strategies.

At congress every year my union tables lots of motions looking for adequate school funding, every year the media cover the union congress, every year they ignore the funding motions. They never make the headlines.

The likes of Carl O'Brien(IT), Ciara Kelly(Newstalk) and Jennifer O'Connell(IT) have alot to answer for with regards to the current narrative. Spiteful isn't a stong enough word to describe their collective attitude to teachers.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

As I already said each to their own and the vast majority of the parents that I come in contact with appreciate my way of doing things. Straight up and no bullsh!t.

You used the kids to do your bidding (kids you are paid to teach) and a parent got you a new laptop.

So what did you achieve other than a new laptop that someone else other than the department paid for?

"I repeatedly gave out stink to the class about it". Good use of class time, I pity your students.

Parent probably did it to stop you moaning at their kids about your crap laptop.

History Queen

jrosen wrote: »

If you do and Im not saying you dont, then how do parents not know? Because I didnt and while im on this I asked my friends on our group chat do any of them pay vol contributions and did they know what its for. 1 out of 6 said they are asked for it. All schools in Dublin. She had no idea what it was for. Ive asked did they know that their teachers are possibly funding classroom material themselves and they have said no.

So out of 7 mums none of us knew. Thats 7 different schools spanning Dublin north and south side.

I dont think teachers are not valued in society. I think parents have issues with alot of what is wrong with the education system and teachers get the brunt of it.

Well currently we are crying out for schools to be made safe enough to return to full time teaching yet the media narrative is that we are workshy layabouts... so the media probably have a part to pay, poor communication strategies from our unions also play a part, they are absolutely fighting for the right things right now (I'm often critical of them but all 3 are pretty much on song at the moment) but the public are being swayed by the media twist of the narrative. Again, partially due to poor union communication strategies.

At congress every year my union tables lots of motions looking for adequate school funding, every year the media cover the union congress, every year they ignore the funding motions. They never make the headlines.

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

If you do and Im not saying you dont, then how do parents not know? Because I didnt and while im on this I asked my friends on our group chat do any of them pay vol contributions and did they know what its for. 1 out of 6 said they are asked for it. All schools in Dublin. She had no idea what it was for. Ive asked did they know that their teachers are possibly funding classroom material themselves and they have said no.

So out of 7 mums none of us knew. Thats 7 different schools spanning Dublin north and south side.

I dont think teachers are not valued in society. I think parents have issues with alot of what is wrong with the education system and teachers get the brunt of it.

Why would they know? Writing an article about chronic under funding of education wouldn't create clickbait advertising revenue for the like of The Irish Times or TheJournaldotie.

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

I still dont agree with your approach.

As I already said each to their own and the vast majority of the parents that I come in contact with appreciate my way of doing things. Straight up and no bullsh!t.

jrosen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I'll give another example that has happened to me. I had a laptop that was about 10-12yrs old. Really outdated and not up to modern use in a classroom. I repeatedly asked for a new one as it wasn't fit for purpose. Got nowhere within the school. No money was the answer which was and is true. I repeatedly gave out stink to the class about it. Guess what, a few parents approached the principal complaining about how for instance their child's teacher couldn't proper access and use the available gaeilge resources due to the poor equipment their child's teacher had been given. Miraculously a new laptop was on my desk within a few weeks compliments of a parent who worked in a tech company who arranged a sponsored one. Wouldn't have happened without being vocal about things.

The use of the word whinge is the incorrect word to have used but parents need to be vocalised about these things. Most of them are completely ignorant of what little funding we receive.

I still dont agree with your approach.

jrosen

History Queen wrote: »

We do. Endlessly. The Dept of Education ignore us. The media/public dont want to know about it. Just look at the way teachers are being made out to be unreasonable at the moment because we are looking for funding for PPE/handwashing facilities/extra staff etc. People are twisting it to seem like we are lazy layabouts looking for time off and more money when that is patently untrue. Teachers are not valued by society in Ireland and not believed when we ask for resources, that's why schools ask for voluntary contributions.

If you do and Im not saying you dont, then how do parents not know? Because I didnt and while im on this I asked my friends on our group chat do any of them pay vol contributions and did they know what its for. 1 out of 6 said they are asked for it. All schools in Dublin. She had no idea what it was for. Ive asked did they know that their teachers are possibly funding classroom material themselves and they have said no.

So out of 7 mums none of us knew. Thats 7 different schools spanning Dublin north and south side.

I dont think teachers are not valued in society. I think parents have issues with alot of what is wrong with the education system and teachers get the brunt of it.

iamwhoiam

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

How is the chronic under funding of our schools and my place of employment and the possible place where your children are educated my own agenda? I fight tooth and nail for the children in my classes,.always have and always will. If that means being vocal the so be it.

What has sitting back and accepting things got us?

There is being vocal and proactive and there is using kids to make a point . No comparison .
I worked with sick children all my life and was vocal when they needed anything . I would lay down my life for them before I would use them to fight the cause

Bananaleaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I'll give another example that has happened to me. I had a laptop that was about 10-12yrs old. Really outdated and not up to modern use in a classroom. I repeatedly asked for a new one as it wasn't fit for purpose. Got nowhere within the school. No money was the answer which was and is true. I repeatedly gave out stink to the class about it. Guess what, a few parents approached the principal complaining about how for instance their child's teacher couldn't proper access and use the available gaeilge resources due to the poor equipment their child's teacher had been given. Miraculously a new laptop was on my desk within a few weeks compliments of a parent who worked in a tech company who arranged a sponsored one. Wouldn't have happened without being vocal about things.

The use of the word whinge is the incorrect word to have used but parents need to be vocalised about these things. Most of them are completely ignorant of what little funding we receive.

And before anyone asks why we would expect to be given a laptop from the school - due to GDPR and child protection issues, we are not allowed to use devices that are not school issued. If you're in an ETB, if they get things working the way they want there will be further restrictions on this, but that is for another thread

wirelessdude01

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Look I understand your point but am appalled by anyone trying to justify using children for their own agenda .

How is the chronic under funding of our schools and my place of employment and the possible place where your children are educated my own agenda? I fight tooth and nail for the children in my classes,.always have and always will. If that means being vocal the so be it.

What has sitting back and accepting things got us?