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Deontay Wilder v Tyson Fury II - February 22nd

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    #482
    MD1990
    Registered Users Posts: 11,740 ✭✭✭✭MD1990


    walshb wrote: »
    Ok, personally I think both AJ and Fury have shaky chins..

    But if we agree that Fury’s is proven, then logically we can argue that so is AJs..

    Never been knocked out. Never been on his back for ten seconds. Always got up.

    There seems to be a real anti AJ and pro Fury agenda here...

    My analysis of both has them neck and neck across all areas...

    For objectivity, best to list reasons why both win and lose their potential match..

    Cant compare the power Fury has faced in Wilder compared to Joshua.
    Fury also recovered very quickly from a knockdown from the heaviest hitter in boxing history.

    Joshua has got KO'd against s small fat HW in Ruiz.

    You cannot comoare their chins at all.
    Fury beats Joshua in every department. Even his power now looks up to Joshua's level.


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    #483
    Lonesomerhodes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 515 ✭✭✭Lonesomerhodes


    akelly02 wrote: »
    Lonesomerhodes wrote: »
    Knew Fury would win won a right few bob as was 100% convinced he would win.


    you ****ing knew , musta had the mortgage on it fair play tya

    Can't afford a mortgage myself, few hundred on Fury to win and England to beat Ireland in the rugby!. :)


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    #484
    Bobby Baccala
    Registered Users Posts: 7,341 ✭✭✭Bobby Baccala


    MD1990 wrote: »
    Cant compare the power Fury has faced in Wilder compared to Joshua.
    Fury also recovered very quickly from a knockdown from the heaviest hitter in boxing history.

    Joshua has got KO'd against s small fat HW in Ruiz.

    You cannot comoare their chins at all.
    Fury beats Joshua in every department. Even his power now looks up to Joshua's level.

    Why can’t you compare their chins? They’ve both been dropped by big men, Ruiz is massive even if he is fat.


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    #485
    blade1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,161 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    MD1990 wrote: »
    Cant compare the power Fury has faced in Wilder compared to Joshua.
    Fury also recovered very quickly from a knockdown from the heaviest hitter in boxing history.

    Joshua has got KO'd against s small fat HW in Ruiz.

    You cannot comoare their chins at all.
    Fury beats Joshua in every department. Even his power now looks up to Joshua's level.

    What power had Wilder in the fight.
    That clout in the ear he got made sure he wouldn't be able to get full power in any shot he tried.


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    #486
    badabing106
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭badabing106


    Some smack alright

    [URL]


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    #487
    dougm1970
    Registered Users Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭dougm1970


    Draw
    my pet hate in modern boxing ...these rematch clauses in world title fights...they really should be outlawed somehow. ...wilder does not deserve an immediate 3rd fight with fury after that, a unification fight has to play second fiddle to it or the man who's sat waiting as wbc no.1 for years or interim...its not right.


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    #488
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    Draw
    Lonesomerhodes wrote: »
    akelly02 wrote: »

    Can't afford a mortgage myself, few hundred on Fury to win and England to beat Ireland in the rugby!. :)



    yea, i just had the double myself, fury to win in round 7 and offaly to win the all ireland in 82


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    #489
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,561 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Draw
    dougm1970 wrote: »
    my pet hate in modern boxing ...these rematch clauses in world title fights...they really should be outlawed somehow. ...wilder does not deserve an immediate 3rd fight with fury after that, a unification fight has to play second fiddle to it or the man who's sat waiting as wbc no.1 for years or interim...its not right.

    There a nightmare ,
    What if Wilder wins the next fight do they then do it again ? and what if Fury wins that one :D endless ,


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    #490
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Draw
    Titclamp wrote: »
    What was that you saying? Who's head?

    Nice trollin there. I'll take the bait. So was Wilder KO'd and left unconscious? What option did you take in the poll?

    Also its amazing how much insight you have after the fight. I must have missed it, did you make any sort of prediction in this thread before the fight? Other than the snarky child like ones. Hindsight maestro.

    And by the way i've never been so delighted to be wrong. I've also said a number of times how much better a boxer Fury is but I did express concern at Wilders KO ability and that ultimately swayed my prediction.

    Anyway fantastic win for Fury. Amazing. Completely dominant.


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    #491
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Draw
    MD1990 wrote: »
    Cant compare the power Fury has faced in Wilder compared to Joshua.
    Fury also recovered very quickly from a knockdown from the heaviest hitter in boxing history.

    Joshua has got KO'd against s small fat HW in Ruiz.

    You cannot comoare their chins at all.
    Fury beats Joshua in every department. Even his power now looks up to Joshua's level.

    You are talking nonsense. AJ was on his feet when he was waved off v Ruiz. He did not get knocked out..

    What is it with AJ and Fury. The amount of selective posting on the forum to discredit one and praise the other is so silly.

    It's so bloody simple: Both have proven through their careers that their chins are shaky. Even a Fury nuthugger can surely see this? Both have been dropped, wobbled, hurt from different type shots...some heavy, some not so heavy...

    Have you, and others seen Fury's fights from the past? Or are you just wetting yourself because after 10-11 seconds he climbed off the floor in the 12th v Wilder?

    Both men are shaky....

    Folks really need to discuss and analyse these things with objectivity....nuance and detail

    Here's one: The shot that Wlad dropped AJ with? For me, it wasn't a whopper. It was a good shot.....were Wilder's shots somehow heavier and harder?

    AJ got up from Wlad's shot before the ten seconds, recovered and went on...but, no, Fury nuthuggres wouldn't dare praise this, yet they'll wet themselves over Fury getting up after ten seconds v Wilder...

    Wilder has delivered far heavier and cleaner shots on opponents than the ones he dropped Fury with.

    And, you can bet several referees wouldn't have even counted when Fury crashed to the canvas....

    Forget the two men personally: Analyse them purely as boxers...

    We need to assess both equally: If Fury's chin is proven. So is AJs. If Fury's chin is shaky so is AJs...

    It's not that difficult to see what I am seeing when I see both men wobbled, dropped, badly hurt several times in their careers...

    I will concede, that AJs is likely a bit shakier than Fury's....but both are shaky. Neither are proven for me.


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    #492
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,561 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Draw
    walshb wrote: »
    You are talking nonsense. AJ was on his feet when he was waved off v Ruiz. He did not get knocked out..

    What is it with AJ and Fury. The amount of selective posting on the forum to discredit one and praise the other is so silly.

    It's so bloody simple: Both have proven through their careers that their chins are shaky. Even a Fury nuthugger can surely see this? Both have been dropped, wobbled, hurt from different type shots...some heavy, some not so heavy...

    Have you, and others seen Fury's fights from the past? Or are you just wetting yourself because afire 10-11 seconds he climbed off the floor in the 12th v Wilder?

    Both men are shaky....

    Folks really need to discuss and analyse these things with objectivity....nuance and detail

    Here's one: The shot that Wlad dropped AJ with? For me, it wasn't a whopper. It was a good shot.....was Wilder's shots somehow heavier and harder?

    AJ got up from Wlad's shot before the ten seconds, recovered and went on...but, no, Fury nuthuggres wouldn't dare praise this, yet they'll wet themselves over Fury getting up after ten seconds v Wilder...

    Wilder has delivered far heavier and cleaner shots on opponents than the ones he dropped Fury with.

    And, you can bet several referees wouldn't have even counted when Fury crashed to the canvas....

    Forget the two men personally: Analyse them purely as boxers...

    We need to assess both equally: If Fury's chin is proven. So is AJs. If Fury's chin is shaky so is AJs...

    It's not that difficult to see what I am seeing when I see both men wobbled, dropped, badly hurt several times in their careers...

    I will concede, that AJs is likely a bit shakier than Fury's....but both are shaky. Neither are proven for me.

    Heres a fair assessment and the question is what would be easer to get up from

    AJ got knocked down In round 6 and was in physically peak condition and took a couple of rounds to get his legs back under him

    Fury got knocked down in round 12 and was in absolutely awful physical condition and went on to push the pressure in that same round ,

    Haye and Fury have both been in the ring with both Wlad and Wilder ,
    Haye said Wlad power had nothing on Wilders and he was wearing a head guard and bigger gloves while sparing Wilder

    Fury said Wlad hits harder in the pre fight press conference, but Ben Davision has said Fury told him Wilder hit much harder than Wlad in private ,

    I think both can be hurt like anyman but I think we have seen Fury recovers quicker than AJ ,
    I think a lot has to do with he's a fighter and his mind-set he remains clam ,AJ an Athlete how doesn't like being hit ,


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    #493
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,755 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Fury via KO/TKO/DQ
    walshb wrote: »
    You are talking nonsense. AJ was on his feet when he was waved off v Ruiz. He did not get knocked out..

    What is it with AJ and Fury. The amount of selective posting on the forum to discredit one and praise the other is so silly.

    It's so bloody simple: Both have proven through their careers that their chins are shaky. Even a Fury nuthugger can surely see this? Both have been dropped, wobbled, hurt from different type shots...some heavy, some not so heavy...

    Have you, and others seen Fury's fights from the past? Or are you just wetting yourself because after 10-11 seconds he climbed off the floor in the 12th v Wilder?

    Both men are shaky....

    Folks really need to discuss and analyse these things with objectivity....nuance and detail

    Here's one: The shot that Wlad dropped AJ with? For me, it wasn't a whopper. It was a good shot.....was Wilder's shots somehow heavier and harder?

    AJ got up from Wlad's shot before the ten seconds, recovered and went on...but, no, Fury nuthuggres wouldn't dare praise this, yet they'll wet themselves over Fury getting up after ten seconds v Wilder...

    Wilder has delivered far heavier and cleaner shots on opponents than the ones he dropped Fury with.

    And, you can bet several referees wouldn't have even counted when Fury crashed to the canvas....

    Forget the two men personally: Analyse them purely as boxers...

    We need to assess both equally: If Fury's chin is proven. So is AJs. If Fury's chin is shaky so is AJs...

    It's not that difficult to see what I am seeing when I see both men wobbled, dropped, badly hurt several times in their careers...

    I will concede, that AJs is likely a bit shakier than Fury's....but both are shaky. Neither are proven for me.

    people would pay more attention to your posts if you cleaned up the language a little and stopped posting like a teenage boy.

    Wilder caught fury clean with a right and again with a left for good measure on his way down in the first fight. both of those punches were much bigger shots than what ruiz caught joshua with in the 3rd and despite quitting on his feet joshua was completely out of it for the rest of that fight whereas Fury arguably won the rest of the 12th round.

    When joshua gets wobbled he is like bambi on ice, whyte wobbled him, vlad wobbled him, and ruiz wobbled him.

    Fury has been dropped but never in the same sort of trouble joshua has been in.

    Fury appears to have a better chin, and even at the weekend ate a few big shots in the first 2 rounds and showed no ill effects


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    #494
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,561 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Draw
    Cyrus wrote: »
    people would pay more attention to your posts if you cleaned up the language a little and stopped posting like a teenage boy.

    Wilder caught fury clean with a right and again with a left for good measure on his way down in the first fight. both of those punches were much bigger shots than what ruiz caught joshua with in the 3rd and despite quitting on his feet joshua was completely out of it for the rest of that fight whereas Fury arguably won the rest of the 12th round.

    When joshua gets wobbled he is like bambi on ice, whyte wobbled him, vlad wobbled him, and ruiz wobbled him.

    Fury has been dropped but never in the same sort of trouble joshua has been in.

    Fury appears to have a better chin, and even at the weekend ate a few big shots in the first 2 rounds and showed no ill effects

    He 100% recovers quicker than AJ , he remains calm ,
    I can't recall Fury ever being wobbled , Cunningham and Wilder dropped him but he was never on wobbly legs ,


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    #495
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Draw
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    He 100% recovers quicker than AJ , he remains calm ,
    I can't recall Fury ever being wobbled , Cunningham and Wilder dropped him but he was never on wobbly legs ,

    Well, you need to view some more fights, so...


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    #496
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Draw
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I think both can be hurt like anyman but I think we have seen Fury recovers quicker than AJ ,
    I think a lot has to do with he's a fighter and his mind-set he remains clam ,AJ an Athlete how doesn't like being hit ,

    I agree....

    My point was simple: To be so sure, and not necessarily you, that Fury's chin is proven, but AJs, isn't, after analyzing their careers and incidents, seems off to me..

    Both shaky. AJ likely shakier...

    I can guarantee that anyone selecting AJ to beat Fury will likely be doing so based off an AJ KO-TKO...Because they will be that bit unsure about Fury's chin,....

    And AJ is far better overall puncher than Wilder...heavy enough to really hurt Fury, and with far more effectiveness and cleanness on following up.


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    #497
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,561 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Draw
    walshb wrote: »
    Well, you need to view some more fights, so...

    Maybe my brain is failing me but when ?
    I understand he may have been hit and taken a misstep but on wobbly legs ? Can't recall any ,

    You can't argue that Fury recovers quicker than AJ I think that pretty certain ,
    AJ never recovered v Ruiz and took a few rounds v Wlad , Any time Furys been down hes been pretty fine in the same round ,


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    #498
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Draw
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Maybe my brain is failing me but when ?
    I understand he may have been hit and taken a misstep but on wobbly legs ? Can't recall any ,

    You can't argue that Fury recovers quicker than AJ I think that pretty certain ,
    AJ never recovered v Ruiz and took a few rounds v Wlad , Any time Furys been down hes been pretty fine in the same round ,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiSCI82p-N8

    Dropped and hurt by Nevin Pajkic as well...

    This is simple enough......he has shown, like AJ, throughout his career, to not have the sturdiest of chins.....not bad, just not something proven as sturdy.


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    #499
    Ikozma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Ikozma


    str8talkingguy wrote: »
    Theres a reason Tyson avoided Lennox for years he knew he would never get inside the reach of a tall quality boxer like Lewis.

    Fury is almost a foot taller and and is a very agile guy for his size a nightmare matchup for Mike Tyson.Mike Tyson would have zero chance to beat the Tyson we seen last night and most previous greats would struggle with such a monster that Moves and Boxes so well,its unheard of to be so big and so agile.

    Fair point but when I see fury I don't see a good mover or a good punch thrower, I see slow and awkward, big tall and strong yes, good mover and boxer not so much, wilder is just a worse version of fury, I do like fury though and am delighted he won
    I thought the quality of boxing between the two was horrendous tbh, like two lads in the playground having their first fight


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    #500
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,561 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Draw
    walshb wrote: »
    I agree....

    My point was simple: To be so sure, and not necessarily you, that Fury's chin is proven, but AJs, isn't, after analyzing their careers and incidents, seems off to me..

    Both shaky. AJ likely shakier...

    I can guarantee that anyone selecting AJ to beat Fury will likely be doing so based off an AJ KO-TKO...Because they will be that bit unsure about Fury's chin,....

    And AJ is far better overall puncher than Wilder...heavy enough to really hurt Fury, and with far more effectiveness and cleanness on following up.

    I still think shaky is to strong a word for Fury ,

    He got put down twice by Wilder and was fine when he got up ,
    I'll conceded him hitting the ground probably woke him up form the 12th round one but its Wilder he could do that to literally any man ,

    Wilder is probably top one or two hardest hitters ever to get up fine is massive, But then we have Cunningham who isn't a big puncher and knocked him over but never really hurt him either,

    AJ two knock downs to date he was a lot worse than Fury he was really hurt after ,
    I wouldn't say Aj has a poor chin as any man can be knocked down , I'd say shaky

    For my money Fury is whatever is less than shaky but not granite either, Fury recovery speed is immense but not something you want to rely on to many times


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    #501
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Draw
    I find it kind of odd how reluctant some are here to even objectively analyse and critique Fury....they take everything that is perceived as a criticism almost personally.


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    #502
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Draw
    walshb wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiSCI82p-N8

    Dropped and hurt by Nevin Pajkic as well...

    This is simple enough......he has shown, like AJ, throughout his career, to not have the sturdiest of chins.....not bad, just not something proven as sturdy.

    But surely any extremely large HW boxer has the ability to drop his opponent? There's no such thing as a HW boxer's chin being so sturdy its invulnerable.


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    #503
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Draw
    str8talkingguy wrote: »
    Theres a reason Tyson avoided Lennox for years he knew he would never get inside the reach of a tall quality boxer like Lewis.
    .

    So, care to share the avoidance details and evidence, and timelines?


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    #504
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Draw
    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    But surely any extremely large HW boxer has the ability to drop his opponent? There's no such thing as a HW boxer's chin being so sturdy its invulnerable.

    I never claimed otherwise...

    any big man can potentially hurt, wobble, drop and KO another....

    My points was very clear: Neither man has shown to me a sturdy chin, one that I would really rely on....

    Both AJ and Fury have less than stellar chins for me.....


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    #505
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Fury via KO/TKO/DQ
    walshb wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiSCI82p-N8

    Dropped and hurt by Nevin Pajkic as well...

    This is simple enough......he has shown, like AJ, throughout his career, to not have the sturdiest of chins.....not bad, just not something proven as sturdy.
    This is like saying Canelo has a dodgy chin because he got wobbled by Jose Cotto ten years ago. Fury was 21/22 and learning on the job at the point of those fights. No comparison to the fighter he is today.


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    #506
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Draw
    Morrison J wrote: »
    This is like saying Canelo has a dodgy chin because he got wobbled by Jose Cotto ten years ago. Fury was 21/22 and learning on the job at the point of those fights. No comparison to the fighter he is today.

    I was simply asked for examples. I gave them

    And, added to his other examples, through his career......they all add up to paint a picture....


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    #507
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,755 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Fury via KO/TKO/DQ
    Ikozma wrote: »
    Fair point but when I see fury I don't see a good mover or a good punch thrower, I see slow and awkward, big tall and strong yes, good mover and boxer not so much, wilder is just a worse version of fury, I do like fury though and am delighted he won
    I thought the quality of boxing between the two was horrendous tbh, like two lads in the playground having their first fight

    the man is 6ft 9 and 19 stone, for the sheer mass of him he moves un believably well.


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    #508
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Draw
    walshb wrote: »
    Both AJ and Fury have less than stellar chins for me.....

    Ok I get ya but it seems you're looking for a HW boxer who has a magical chin made of cast iron (metaphorically). And that doesn't exist. Without looking up the stats I would bet that any of the best HW boxers in the last 30 yrs have been dropped at some point in their careers.

    Which contemporary has a better chin than AJ or Fury?


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    #509
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,561 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Draw
    walshb wrote: »
    I was simply asked for examples. I gave them

    And, added to his other examples, through his career......they all add up to paint a picture....

    id completely forgotten that fight,

    Ye both guys can be hurt like any man , what is key for me is the recover as I think both will be hit hard if they ever fight,

    As the great Rocky Balboa once said its about how hard you can get hit and keeping going :D


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    #510
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Draw
    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    Ok I get ya but it seems you're looking for a HW boxer who has a magical chin made of cast iron (metaphorically). And that doesn't exist. Without looking up the stats I would bet that any of the best HW boxers in the last 30 yrs have been dropped at some point in their careers.

    Which contemporary has a better chin than AJ or Fury?

    Not looking for a cast iron chin.....there are levels to chins. AJ and Fury are very close in terms of their level.


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    #511
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,755 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Fury via KO/TKO/DQ
    anyway John Fury was almost spot on before the fight both in what size Tyson needed to be and what tactics he would employ,

    David Haye has been tucking into some humble pie (fair play to him he has held his hands up)


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