Fox hunting

gozunda wrote: »

Not doubting your in-laws etc - they sound delightful but the hunting down here is nothing like that. Pretty much as it was done by locals for hundreds of years. Hunting especially on foot with hounds is mainly used to disperse foxes and remove the occasional problem one as asked by a landowner. I've seen plenty of hunts and even the odd kill. And in my experience hounds kill the same way foxes do quickly and efficiently. There's no gentry involved and yeah there may be the odd tourist who turns up but no they tend not to know feck all tbh. It's not really surprising really.

I have zero issue with hunting for food, so much so that when a friend of mine has to have the deer on her land culled (she calls in a professional) I go and help her do the butchery. Used to be a chef before I saw sense. I still have all my knives and I know how to use them. I get to fill my freezer with venison in return. I don't think there are many here posting who have any idea of what to do when faced with 9/10 deer carcasses that need to be butchered. It ain't a pleasant job.

I've been riding since I was 8 years old. I have spent my fair share of time 'resting' in a puddle or ditch before remounting before the mud hardened. I love riding across country. Last time I went was back in Oct when a group of 10 of us took hunters out for exercise. All of us experienced riders we spent the day going along tracks, across fields (with permission), along roads - even stopped for a pint and a toilet break. We jumped, we galloped, we raced. No need or desire to chase anything except each other. We were there to ride.

Every Summer I used to exercise himself's hunter as he certainly wasn't going to do it, and that's something any stables will tell you -many of these self-styled dedicated horsey people generally don't bother to ride outside hunting season. They board the horses at riding stables who use them for hacking. Then ruck up again as the season starts.


I can shoot. I have shot. And later I ate.

I am not buying this whole fox hunting is to keep the fox population down crap. If that was true why do so many fox hunters feel the need to state 'well, the fox usually gets away', or 'we haven't even seem a fox for donkeys' - while having terrier men to make sure they do have foxes.

It's not about the thrill of the ride - drag can provide an equally thrilling ride when organised properly.
If they are so into their riding why don't they do so in Summer? Nothing like a gallop along a long stretch of beach.

They should at least be honest. They do it because they enjoy it, and they do not enjoy it as much when there isn't a kill. They are doing it purely for their personal pleasure and the sight of blood intensifies that pleasure.

I think deriving pleasure from chasing any animal so completely outnumbered in the hope that you are there when it is killed - an animal you cannot even eat - is just barbaric. And I base that on having been there.

Lastly, the theory is the hound will snap the fox's neck. Theory and reality is often far apart. Many times the fox is ripped apart. And they scream as they die.

gozunda wrote: »

No Its bull**** spread by the anti / sab extremists in the UK involved in a class war there. And yes we've ended up with a load of them after some of them were chased out of the UK by the police etc. Thankfully very few swallow this rubbish here.

Your fantasies are amazing

Ok so there is this army of Brits that have all moved here & they are extremists ? You are saying that Irish people don't oppose fox hunting ?

aaakev wrote: »

Round here cats are fair game if in the fields, farmer lost a few sheep to toxoplasmosis a few years ago

Does that include all the farmers who deliberately keep cats to kill vermin ?

Toxoplasmosis is carried by rodents, which the cat would kill, if you didn't kill the cat.

Up to half of the World's population carries Toxo - you are going to need a lot of bullets.

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

A fox will hunt / catch / kill an animal much quicker than a pack of hounds and people on horses tracking an animal for hours.

I have watched my local Vixen lots of times. When my neighbour comes to feed her ponies the Vixen recognises her jeep. The fox comes down from the hill, where her den is, & into my garden.

My neighbour pours horse feed over the gate & after she is gone, the rats arrive to pick over what the horses leave behind. The Vixen watches the feed though a hole in my wall & will suddenly leap over the wall & then back with a rat in her mouth.

Discodog wrote: »

Hardly fashionable. I have been involved in fox welfare for 30 years.

I find the over breeding & discarding of horse just as deplorable as fox hunting.

If the hunt has nothing to do with foxes then why not drag hunt & leave the foxes alone ?

The rest of your tome about nature ignores one key point. Nature kills for necessity, hunters kill for fun.

In what capacity?

Discodog wrote: »

Hardly fashionable. I have been involved in fox welfare for 30 years.
I find the over breeding & discarding of horse just as deplorable as fox hunting.
If the hunt has nothing to do with foxes then why not drag hunt & leave the foxes alone ?
The rest of your tome about nature ignores one key point. Nature kills for necessity, hunters kill for fun.

Again you are dodging the points I made.
There is little killing of foxes in fox hunting, perhaps 5% of fox deaths in a year.
I have looked at the statistics on websites by anti fox-hunting groups and the statistics are laughable, with no deaths from natural causes or predation by animals or birds.
You say you are involved in fox welfare. What is that? Do you keep foxes? Do you feed them or give them medical attention?
You say my "tome" (ridicule?) ignores one key point, hunters kill for fun.
I did not ignore the point that foxes are killed, and I am not a fan of fox hunting, never attended one, watched one, or taken part in one.
Your reply ignores my main point, which is one fox is chased and might be killed, but thousands of horses are killed, many used to feed the hounds used in the hunt.

Thirty years in fox welfare! Have you ever thought about anything other than the fox? Are you concerned? Are foxes in danger of extinction?
Where I live in the suburbs in south Co Dublin there are foxes on all the roads at night, even in the gated community where i live, and they are doing alright.
Surely you are anti-foxhunting, not a fox welfare person.

Your point about over breeding of horses is probably wide of the mark.
100% of horses are not good specimens, capable of running with their peers.
When you breed a horse you might get a weak animal, or one with bad legs.
I do not like it, but these are culled.
The only way you will end up with no poor specimens and no culling is the elimination of all horses i.e. a total cull.

Anti fox-hunting people focus on one thing, ignoring the rest of the picture.
You could have drag hunts. Will the hounds and horses remain or will they be destroyed?
It is similar to people asking for steeplechase horseracing to be banned, always around Cheltenham or the Grand National, when they see it on television.
They never think it through about what will happen to all the steeplechasing horses if there is a ban.

It would not worry me if fox-hunting was banned, but if it is it should be done over an extended period of time to allow the hound and horse population to adjust.
I would not like to see a repeat of the Green party influence that resulted in massive Motor Tax increases for vehicles with large engines, obsoleting them overnight.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have zero issue with hunting for food, so much so that when a friend of mine has to have the deer on her land culled (she calls in a professional) I go and help her do the butchery. Used to be a chef before I saw sense. I still have all my knives and I know how to use them. I get to fill my freezer with venison in return. I don't think there are many here posting who have any idea of what to do when faced with 9/10 deer carcasses that need to be butchered. It ain't a pleasant job.

...

Interesting reply. I do get the feeling that you've no love for your (ex) in-laws btw. Although your experiences don't match up to mine with regard to hunting with hounds. I know no gentry who participate - and nearly all are either locals or farmers. They do their own work and and bow to no one. You said "I am not buying this whole fox hunting is to keep the fox population down crap." Well funnily enough neither do I. It's nothing about killing everything in sight either. Most hunting does not involve a kill because often the main aim is to disperse foxes and make them wary of human and livestock. Sometines a landowner will ask for a problematic fox to be found and dealt with. I've also heard animals scream - one which sticks in my head was a big dog fox which snatched an orange cat from the yard. The screams of that cat were like nothing I can describe. I've also heard rabbits scream. And foxes when they weren't shot correctly. So yes animals do sometimes scream when being killed and I agree it's not pleasant to hear. The trouble with a lot of this type of debate is you gather the extreme squad screaming absolute bs. Unfortunately it's just too easy to feed that lot imo.

Discodog wrote: »

Ok so show us the evidence ? If it's a staggering number then why aren't we seeing the results of their extremism ? All I have ever seen is the usually half a dozen protestors from ARAN & they are hardly extreme.

From 'answer my question' to 'wheres the evidence' bs demands now! You don't get to call the shots. I could just as Well ask you to prove your anecdotal stories about your experiences. Plus you never answered why you were making the discussion about yourself eh?

Yes I'm relying on my own experience of these eejits here. This is a discussion forum btw not show and tell schooltime. You could of course look around you - as you said you've been minding icke wickle foxies woxies for 30 years - you've bound to come across some in that time - no?

Thankfully the same extremists idiots arn't listened to the way here they are across the water. People can spot them a mile off. Good job too.

brianmax88 wrote: »

They are more worried about class than the welfare of foxes. And the perception that only the upper class follow the hunt that is wrong. Most of them are on the dole and want everything for nothing

So you've dismissed one generalisation but then state another! There's word for that!;)

gozunda wrote: »

Interesting reply. I do get the feeling that you've no love for your (ex) in-laws btw. Although your experiences don't match up to mine with regard to hunting with hounds. I know no gentry who participate - and nearly all are either locals or farmers. They do their own work and and bow to no one. You said "I am not buying this whole fox hunting is to keep the fox population down crap." Well funnily enough neither do I. It's nothing about killing everything in sight either. Most hunting does not involve a kill because often the main aim is to disperse foxes and make them wary of human and livestock. Sometines a landowner will ask for a problematic fox to be found and dealt with. I've also heard animals scream - one which sticks in my head was a big dog fox which snatched an orange cat from the yard. The screams of that cat were like nothing I can describe. I've also heard rabbits scream. And foxes when they weren't shot correctly. So yes animals do sometimes scream when being killed and I agree it's not pleasant to hear. The trouble with a lot of this type of debate is you gather the extreme squad screaming absolute bs. Unfortunately it's just too easy to feed that lot imo.

Here we have people claiming it's not about the foxes - it's about the ride, then why not enjoy the ride without the hunting, and in the next breath claim if fox hunting was banned and replaced with drags the hounds and horse would be killed.
Why would that be if it's about the ride not the hunt?
Will people quit if there is not the hunting aspect?
In which case it is about the hunt.

A drag hunt going through will also disperse the foxes.

Most of the examples of animals screaming you have given have been as a result of other animals acting according to their nature - is that our nature so, to ride down and kill an out numbered animal? Probably is, but I had hoped we had evolved beyond needing blood to give us pleasure.
I think needing a pack of hounds and a gaggle of mounted eejits by your side is cowardly.

I actually quite like my ex in laws, I was even sympathetic when himself busted his kneecap off a pillar while out hunting. And they are far from being 'gentry' - much as they may have aspirations.

I go out into the country at night and kills bats with an ultrasonic beacon and a tennis racket

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Again you are dodging the points I made.
There is little killing of foxes in fox hunting, perhaps 5% of fox deaths in a year.
I have looked at the statistics on websites by anti fox-hunting groups and the statistics are laughable, with no deaths from natural causes or predation by animals or birds.
You say you are involved in fox welfare. What is that? Do you keep foxes? Do you feed them or give them medical attention?
You say my "tome" (ridicule?) ignores one key point, hunters kill for fun.
I did not ignore the point that foxes are killed, and I am not a fan of fox hunting, never attended one, watched one, or taken part in one.
Your reply ignores my main point, which is one fox is chased and might be killed, but thousands of horses are killed, many used to feed the hounds used in the hunt.

Thirty years in fox welfare! Have you ever thought about anything other than the fox? Are you concerned? Are foxes in danger of extinction?
Where I live in the suburbs in south Co Dublin there are foxes on all the roads at night, even in the gated community where i live, and they are doing alright.
Surely you are anti-foxhunting, not a fox welfare person.

Your point about over breeding of horses is probably wide of the mark.
100% of horses are not good specimens, capable of running with their peers.
When you breed a horse you might get a weak animal, or one with bad legs.
I do not like it, but these are culled.
The only way you will end up with no poor specimens and no culling is the elimination of all horses i.e. a total cull.

Anti fox-hunting people focus on one thing, ignoring the rest of the picture.
You could have drag hunts. Will the hounds and horses remain or will they be destroyed?
It is similar to people asking for steeplechase horseracing to be banned, always around Cheltenham or the Grand National, when they see it on television.
They never think it through about what will happen to all the steeplechasing horses if there is a ban.

It would not worry me if fox-hunting was banned, but if it is it should be done over an extended period of time to allow the hound and horse population to adjust.
I would not like to see a repeat of the Green party influence that resulted in massive Motor Tax increases for vehicles with large engines, obsoleting them overnight.

So why hunt them if it is so ineffectual ?

I have volunteered for a major wildlife rescue. I am not concerned about populations but I am concerned about any unnecessary animal cruelty. I do not feed wild foxes. I have given many medical attention under the supervision of a vet.

Obvious I agree with your last point & I would love to see horse racing, greyhound racing & coursing fazed out - but I am not holding my breath.

brianmax88 wrote: »

They are more worried about class than the welfare of foxes. And the perception that only the upper class follow the hunt that is wrong. Most of them are on the dole and want everything for nothing

I am not on the dole. The old arguments. After what sane, hard working person would object to animal cruelty ? :rolleyes:

gozunda wrote: »

From 'answer my question' to 'wheres the evidence' bs demands now! You don't get to call the shots. I could just as Well ask you to prove your anecdotal stories about your experiences. Plus you never answered why you were making the discussion about yourself eh?

Yes I'm relying on my own experience of these eejits here. This is a discussion forum btw not show and tell schooltime. You could of course look around you - as you said you've been minding icke wickle foxes woxies for 30 years - you've bound to come across some in that time - no?

Thankfully the same extremists idiots arn't listened to the way here they are across the water. People can spot them a mile off. Good job too.

Just admit that you have no proof whatsoever.

I don't agree with or support animal rights organisations but I do support animal welfare.

You are the one using childish, pointless, terms - not me.

And this government have been very good at listening. They have finally, only 30 years behind the rest of Europe, introduced effective animal welfare law.

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Can you keep a fox as a pet? Or are they too disease ridden? Maybe better admired from a far?

People have kept them as pets. Not disease ridden. There are a few foxes in the UK that had to be hand reared & are taken to schools for education projects. I know one that ignores rabbits & cats but will "hunt" a can of pedigree chum. But they still retain a natural nervousness & aren't suitable as pets.

Discodog wrote: »

As a volunteer.

Well I figured from reading this thread you were more than likely not a professional.

What kind of tasks have you been doing for the good of fox welfare over the last 30 years?

Rows Grower wrote: »

Well I figured from reading this thread you were more than likely not a professional.

What kind of tasks have you been doing for the good of fox welfare over the last 30 years?

I have spent many hours with a man regarded as a world authority on the red fox.

Usually rescuing from snares, sheds, rtas etc, rehabilitation & release.