Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

Grizzly 45 · 18-10-2020 3:05pm

Feisar wrote: »

I love guns, more specifically rifles however and it's a strong however I don't get American's relationship with weapons. And I say weapons intentionally because that's what it is. I remember reading an article in Guns and Ammo years ago. Yer man's main point was: if I have a self defense pistol I want a bore I can damn near crawl through, i.e. 45 over 9 mil. I see it on the YouTube channels as well, "a well armed populace" blah blah blah. Yea you and yer AR are going to sort out the 1st Field Artillery Regiment and it's 155 mm self-propelled howitzers. Gotta keep that government in check.

The above is a stereotype of American's attitude to guns.

Kind of a sweeping statement there.
In shooting circles the American attitude to FIREARMS is as varied as those who use them.From ultra Fudd,to owning a quad 20mm Vulcan gun.The nice thing is they can do such under a constitutional RIGHT and not under a system of Govt granted privilidges like what we suffer under hre.Nor does it say anything about "hunting or target shooting"appropriate firearms either.

As for the Czechs doing this..i figure living with a decade of the Nazi jackboot on your neck,followed by 50 years of the Soviet version of the same footwear,kind of skews your perspective when you have signed up withsome supposedly peacable and trading organisation,and find they are likely to put on the same boots in the near future...Well unless you are kinky and like boot worship...:p

"Yer man " you refer to is the late Col Jeff Cooper who was always an advocate of large cal for personal defence,going from a career as a combat Marine in ww2 and Law enforcement,he was talking from experiance.

As for the last part.I'd suggest a study of asymatric warfare and gureilla war,and specifically places like Vietnam,Iraq and Afghanistan,and for a bit of variety the PIRA NI conflict tactics,where both the US,Russia and the UK got their asses handed to them in many occasions by a bunch of goat herders,rice farmers and street dossers with NONE of the high tech military equipment you mention,and even weapons in worse condition and age than some of our more neglected farmers firearms here .:)

You dont waste ammo shooting at the predator drone in the air,you wait until it is on the runway and punch a few 50 cals into its multi million dollar electronics.
An actual plan Russia was going to do with its SPETNATZ forces to knock alot of NATO's aircraft out,in the hours leading up to the start of WW3 in Germany.

Feisar · 18-10-2020 3:52pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Kind of a sweeping statement there.
In shooting circles the American attitude to FIREARMS is as varied as those who use them.From ultra Fudd,to owning a quad 20mm Vulcan gun.The nice thing is they can do such under a constitutional RIGHT and not under a system of Govt granted privilidges like what we suffer under hre.Nor does it say anything about "hunting or target shooting"appropriate firearms either.

As for the Czechs doing this..i figure living with a decade of the Nazi jackboot on your neck,followed by 50 years of the Soviet version of the same footwear,kind of skews your perspective when you have signed up withsome supposedly peacable and trading organisation,and find they are likely to put on the same boots in the near future...Well unless you are kinky and like boot worship...:p

"Yer man " you refer to is the late Col Jeff Cooper who was always an advocate of large cal for personal defence,going from a career as a combat Marine in ww2 and Law enforcement,he was talking from experiance.

As for the last part.I'd suggest a study of asymatric warfare and gureilla war,and specifically places like Vietnam,Iraq and Afghanistan,and for a bit of variety the PIRA NI conflict tactics,where both the US,Russia and the UK got their asses handed to them in many occasions by a bunch of goat herders,rice farmers and street dossers with NONE of the high tech military equipment you mention,and even weapons in worse condition and age than some of our more neglected farmers firearms here .:)

You dont waste ammo shooting at the predator drone in the air,you wait until it is on the runway and punch a few 50 cals into its multi million dollar electronics.
An actual plan Russia was going to do with its SPETNATZ forces to knock alot of NATO's aircraft out,in the hours leading up to the start of WW3 in Germany.

All fair points and my statement was a massive generalization, however I still think some of them are seriously over zealous.
From memory it wasn't Jeff Cooper although I used to enjoy his writing, specifically Coopers Corner.

tudderone · 18-10-2020 4:15pm

Do you think that if they were not overly zealous, they would still be able to own what they do own in America ?

Grizzly 45 · 18-10-2020 5:55pm

tudderone wrote: »

Four boys being naughty, i wonder if their firearms certs will be taken ?

https://www.midlands103.com/news/midlands-news/four-men-prosecuted-for-wildlife-breaches-in-the-midlands/

Hope they ialso nvest in a bloody printer,and an updated computer programme to prevent another disaster like this year from happening again.:P

It's like this puff piece in todays indo.
All vey well doing such and commendable,[although I doubt I'd call the UK version world class,as they cant even control illegal coursing with it either]. If you don't have the behind the scenes mechanics and manpower working 100% too,all this will just fall apart.
https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/rural-crime/new-wildlife-crime-unit-to-tackle-illegal-hunting-and-destruction-of-habitats-39637691.html?fbclid=IwAR1HVx9Pj3_g9H15hFFqvTz6yozfSfv-Mv5_Q0CF8MkVey6kED9rgMcWuFM

Feisar · 18-10-2020 7:33pm

tudderone wrote: »

Do you think that if they were not overly zealous, they would still be able to own what they do own in America ?

Oh definitely not. I’ll go back in the corner and keep quiet!

Mellor · 19-10-2020 12:53am

tudderone wrote: »

Do you think that if they were not overly zealous, they would still be able to own what they do own in America ?

I do understand Feisar's point to be fair.

We all know Americans operate under a given right to own arms, which obvious leads to a certain amount of zealotry. And being completely honest, we're all slightly jealous at the options they have compared to our own. And it's only the 1% nutjobs that are an issue. But it's also only nutjobs that Joe Soap hears about on the news, those cases are what gives give regular shooters, in Ireland and elsewhere, a bad image among the uneducated masses.

tudderone · 19-10-2020 1:03am

Mellor wrote: »

I do understand Feisar's point to be fair.

We all know Americans operate under a given right to own arms, which obvious leads to a certain amount of zealotry. And being completely honest, we're all slightly jealous at the options they have compared to our own. And it's only the 1% nutjobs that are an issue. But it's also only nutjobs that Joe Soap hears about on the news, those cases are what gives give regular shooters, in Ireland and elsewhere, a bad image among the uneducated masses.

Yes, but its a bit like us losing nearly everything back in the early 70's when the poo-storm started up in the north. Us losing our pistols and centrefire rifles made not tuppence worth of difference to what went on. But Dessie O'Malley or whoever could stand up and say they were "Doing something".

Ditto what went on in Australia, New Zealand, the UK etc etc, there is an atrocity, an outcry and surprise surprise, the ptb want to be seen to be "Doing something". Everyone knows it won't make any difference, so why bother ?

BattleCorp · 19-10-2020 7:45am

Feisar wrote: »

Oh definitely not. I’ll go back in the corner and keep quiet!

Give an inch and they'll take a mile. That's 100% the Irish authorities attitude when it comes to firearms.

I used to consider myself pretty reasonable and tried to see things from the authorities side. Take measures to reduce crime, I'm ok with that........................ But as I get older, all I can see is take, take, take by the authorities and the laws are doing sweet fcukall to reduce crime. The laws are only affecting law abiding citizens. Every couple of years something is chipped away from our sport. Soon there'll be nothing left.

I absolutely can see why the NRA in the States fight tooth and nail not to give one single inch.

Mellor · 19-10-2020 7:48am

tudderone wrote: »

Yes, but its a bit like us losing nearly everything back in the early 70's when the poo-storm started up in the north. Us losing our pistols and centrefire rifles made not tuppence worth of difference to what went on. But Dessie O'Malley or whoever could stand up and say they were "Doing something".

Of course it didn't make a blind bit of difference to the troubles.
But I don't think that's related to my underlying point either. Law abiding shooters losing CF rifles and pistols would never be the logical conclusion from the situaton I describe. However logic is optional with the gubberment.

tudderone · 19-10-2020 12:55pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Give an inch and they'll take a mile. That's 100% the Irish authorities attitude when it comes to firearms.

I used to consider myself pretty reasonable and tried to see things from the authorities side. Take measures to reduce crime, I'm ok with that........................ But as I get older, all I can see is take, take, take by the authorities and the laws are doing sweet fcukall to reduce crime. The laws are only affecting law abiding citizens. Every couple of years something is chipped away from our sport. Soon there'll be nothing left.

I absolutely can see why the NRA in the States fight tooth and nail not to give one single inch.

The NRA is a dirty word to shooters in America now, GOA is where its at now.

Grizzly 45 · 19-10-2020 8:12pm

Needs to shift out the La Pierre monarchy.Re incorporate in some different state and trim off the fat and wastage. And above all stop looking it is willing to compromise on every damn thing because the Fudd contingent is strong with them... GOA and JPFO are "no compromise" groups,but they haven't the numbers or the disciplined grassroots org that the NRA has,and they need that BADLY to make a difference in DC.

tudderone · 19-10-2020 8:58pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDjcPiB15KQ

Xtrail14 · 23-10-2020 9:25pm

Didn’t think this query warrants a new thread so ask here, is it only when you get the license you see if you get a moderator. From what I read it’s an S on the licence.
Is it known from the grant letter?

Cass · 23-10-2020 9:31pm

Yes.

The grant letter does not state if the suppressor was granted, you only find out when the license arrives.

Xtrail14 · 23-10-2020 9:34pm

Thanks Cass, if it isn’t is it a case of just accept that decision or appeal it?

Cass · 23-10-2020 11:41pm

Sorry for the delay, but my notifications for replies is lagging.

Short answer is yes, appeal.

Long answer is talk to the Super first, see if a meeting can be had and try to sort it out. If that fails seek a letter of refusal as you'll need this to appeal otherwise the refusal is word of mouth and the refusal is in "limbo" making an appeal almost impossible. Then lodge the appeal in court (doesn't cost much), and see if it gets overturned or as does happen the Super changes his/her mind before the court date.

The best advice i can give anyone is submit a good application. Give all the reason for needing a suppressor, and this usually Removes the Super's ability to refuse as you have shown you have done your homework and are prepared.

Grizzly 45 · 24-10-2020 1:33pm

FWIW, I'd also suggest that if the super says he will grant it with conditions attached, no matter how stupid they sound, to take it. I have a ridiculous condition that I can only use my.22 silencer on my own property and on ranges. But I can use my .308 anywhere I'm hunting or on a range in the 26. Go figure.

You can always appeal the conditions as vexatious and unreasonable at a later stage once you have the can on the end of your gun, which is the main point of this whole exercise.:)

BattleCorp · 24-10-2020 1:51pm

I applied for a moderator on an application about 5 years ago. When the licence arrived, no magic S on it. Went into the station, asked what the problem was. The Garda said she'd look into it. About 2 days later she came back and said someone forgot to tick the box for the moderator and that they'd sort it out. Four days after that I had the licence with the S on it.

tudderone · 26-10-2020 7:10pm

German ex-spy chief warning that the chinese are on track for world domination. Wouldn't be surprised if this cursed virus was unleashed deliberately.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8879791/China-close-world-domination-Europe-wake-danger-German-spy-chief-says.html

Grizzly 45 · 26-10-2020 8:15pm

Always had my doubts about Merkel from the get-go.
Even though my German fam are staunch CDU/CSU supporters [ CSU Bavarian state badge name party of CDU which is like FF on steroids and protein supplements...]
Came up too much in the GDR political system as a party brat and tout on her school and university classmates to the STASI to be a bit too dodgy to become a wholesome capitalist overnight and take on the role of Germany and the EU[SSR].
Even her dad was weird.:eek::eek:As a Lutheran pastor,he moved into the GDR, when anyone sane was desperately trying to leave by any means possible to the West. Many paid with their lives in the effort to get to freedom.

She has been described as "Honeckers Rache"[Honecker's revenge][ Eric Honecker the deposed GDR dictator who died in South America always swore he would take revenge on W Germany and Europe for destroying the Communist state...Think he is succeeding with Angelika.:eek:

Feisar · 26-10-2020 8:20pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

FWIW, I'd also suggest that if the super says he will grant it with conditions attached, no matter how stupid they sound, to take it. I have a ridiculous condition that I can only use my.22 silencer on my own property and on ranges. But I can use my .308 anywhere I'm hunting or on a range in the 26. Go figure.

You can always appeal the conditions as vexatious and unreasonable at a later stage once you have the can on the end of your gun, which is the main point of this whole exercise.:)

Have heard of these oddball stipulations. Are these appended to the licence? As in do you have the S but with a star beside it. And that means look up the licence on pulse for additional requirements. What I’m getting at is you have the s. If you use it outside of whatever imaginative stipulations, how are you outside the law?

tudderone · 26-10-2020 9:48pm

Feisar wrote: »

Have heard of these oddball stipulations. Are these appended to the licence? As in do you have the S but with a star beside it. And that means look up the licence on pulse for additional requirements. What I’m getting at is you have the s. If you use it outside of whatever imaginative stipulations, how are you outside the law?

I always wondered about these stipulations too, how far can the supers/chief supers go legally ? I heard of one CS telling a centrefire pistol shooter, the route he had to take from his home to the range, the exact roads, there and back again, if he needed petrol he was snookered as he would have to deviate from the route.

How far should they be allowed go in a democracy ?

tudderone · 26-10-2020 9:52pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Always had my doubts about Merkel from the get-go.
Even though my German fam are staunch CDU/CSU supporters [ CSU Bavarian state badge name party of CDU which is like FF on steroids and protein supplements...]
Came up too much in the GDR political system as a party brat and tout on her school and university classmates to the STASI to be a bit too dodgy to become a wholesome capitalist overnight and take on the role of Germany and the EU[SSR].
Even her dad was weird.:eek::eek:As a Lutheran pastor,he moved into the GDR, when anyone sane was desperately trying to leave by any means possible to the West. Many paid with their lives in the effort to get to freedom.

She has been described as "Honeckers Rache"[Honecker's revenge][ Eric Honecker the deposed GDR dictator who died in South America always swore he would take revenge on W Germany and Europe for destroying the Communist state...Think he is succeeding with Angelika.:eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t5fH_ywo_g

Grizzly 45 · 27-10-2020 1:53am

Feisar wrote: »

Have heard of these oddball stipulations. Are these appended to the licence? As in do you have the S but with a star beside it. And that means look up the licence on pulse for additional requirements. What I’m getting at is you have the s. If you use it outside of whatever imaginative stipulations, how are you outside the law?

Never actually noticed that. Must have a look at that tomorrow AM...
Later
Nope! No weird * or others on my Lic.

My take on this is, it is probably 99% BS and will be in 99% of cases never used as well, but is left there as a booby trap to claim that you broke the conditions of your licensing if they ever have a reason to refuse you and you were caught in a circumstance that was violating those conditions.

Mellor · 27-10-2020 2:18am

tudderone wrote: »

I always wondered about these stipulations too, how far can the supers/chief supers go legally ? I heard of one CS telling a centrefire pistol shooter, the route he had to take from his home to the range, the exact roads, there and back again, if he needed petrol he was snookered as he would have to deviate from the route.

How far should they be allowed go in a democracy ?

They are perfectly entitled to tell you whatever they want in terms of routes, conditions etc.
Being a good upstanding citizen, you say yes sure and take you license.

But from then on in you follow the actual laws on using and transporting a firearm. If a condition has no basis in law, then it has no basis.

BattleCorp · 27-10-2020 11:04am

Feisar wrote: »

Have heard of these oddball stipulations. Are these appended to the licence?

I've some stipulations on my restricted licences. They aren't printed on the licence. I got a letter (not a grant letter) saying that the CS approves my application subject to the following conditions bla bla bla. A week later I get the grant letter that says that I have been granted the licence subject to the conditions contained in previous letter bla bla bla.

tudderone wrote: »

I always wondered about these stipulations too, how far can the supers/chief supers go legally ?

Two of my conditions relate to transport.

First one is don't leave the firearm unattended in the car. Sensible enough. Until I have to go to the jacks when going a long distance to a competition. Do I bring it slung over my shoulder into Obama Plaza?

Second condition is that I have a locked safe in the car for transporting the gun. Grand as long as I own a car. Does this condition mean that my owning a gun is dependent on me owning a car?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here and bitching for the sake of it. To be honest it's easy enough for me to comply with those conditions. I'm just pointing out that some conditions could be hard to follow in certain circumstances.

Mellor wrote: »

They are perfectly entitled to tell you whatever they want in terms of routes, conditions etc.
Being a good upstanding citizen, you say yes sure and take you license.

But from then on in you follow the actual laws on using and transporting a firearm. If a condition has no basis in law, then it has no basis.

Given that I was told in writing that my licence was granted subject to certain conditions, I wouldn't like to be the test case in court if I ignored any of those conditions.

Grizzly 45 · 27-10-2020 1:04pm

tudderone wrote: »

I always wondered about these stipulations too, how far can the supers/chief supers go legally ? I heard of one CS telling a centrefire pistol shooter, the route he had to take from his home to the range, the exact roads, there and back again if he needed petrol he was snookered as he would have to deviate from the route.

How far should they be allowed go in a democracy ?

Like putting "safes" in your car and this example,are "Vexatious and unreasonable" What does the guy do if he wants to go shoot a comp on a different range in the country? Or there is a diversion off his approved route?In itself, it is a very dumb condition from a security standpoint as well.as if anywhere he is compromised in his security and routine,it becomes an academic exercise in how to stop and relive him of said firearm.

Safes are not an easy thing either in a car. Not all cars are the same and neither are gun safes.Bit of a bummer if you are driving a 2 seater sports car with a boot that you can just about get a slimline briefcase into.:roll eyes:

ASFIK the guidelines say in a sleeve and inaccessible to the occupants' driver while driving so get one of these. Single or double holder, lockable and inaccessible to both occupants and driver when in motion and out of sight. Cost about 40 quid with shipping for the double. Getting one of those actually fulfils the guideline recommendations,As German hunters have had the same requirements for years now and you can argue a compromise with this. Would even go as a "locked container" if you use one of the sleeves to carry the ammo as well.

https://jagd-platz-shop.de/WebRoot/Store28/Shops/be6cabf9-b6f8-41c9-a6bc-09a4fcf8be60/5A8F/0256/6B20/3972/0CAB/0A48/3572/C976/Unbenannt.png

BattleCorp · 27-10-2020 1:14pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Like putting "safes" in your car and this example,are "Vexatious and unreasonable"

Safes are not an easy thing either in a car. Not all cars are the same and neither are gun safes.Bit of a bummer if you are driving a 2 seater sports car with a boot that you can just about get a slimline briefcase into.:roll eyes:

ASFIK the guidelines say in a sleeve and inaccessible to the occupants' driver while driving so get one of these.

To be honest, it was a condition to have a lockable metal box that could be affixed to my car and not a safe. It was just easier for me to use a safe.

I put it in the car whenever I am bringing my restricted rifles anywhere. It's chained and padlocked so that someone will need to go to a little bit of effort to snatch it out of the car.

Like you said about the car having a small boot, I have to let down one section of the back seat to fit the safe into the boot. Because of that I can't really conceal the fact that I'm transporting a firearm.

Grizzly 45 · 27-10-2020 1:18pm

Could you put a folding stock on it?A perfect justification for one to comply with the chiefs conditions,as it is restricted anyway.:D

BattleCorp · 27-10-2020 7:06pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Could you put a folding stock on it?A perfect justification for one to comply with the chiefs conditions,as it is restricted anyway.:D

I've 3 restricted rifles. It's only practicable to put a folding stock on one of them. Not that I'd bother because I'd more than likely be transporting all three at the same time.

Like I said earlier though, the conditions on my licence are manageable as long as I have my own car and don't have to pee.

jb88 · 30-10-2020 2:45pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

To be honest, it was a condition to have a lockable metal box that could be affixed to my car and not a safe. It was just easier for me to use a safe.

I put it in the car whenever I am bringing my restricted rifles anywhere. It's chained and padlocked so that someone will need to go to a little bit of effort to snatch it out of the car.

Like you said about the car having a small boot, I have to let down one section of the back seat to fit the safe into the boot. Because of that I can't really conceal the fact that I'm transporting a firearm.

Cars have alarms and if your stopped on the way to or from the range its best to be within a good viewing distance.

If they really really want it, they are going to take it, by force if necessary. Ive explained this to a Chief once. What robber is going to use Bolt cutters and a torch or angle grinder when they can take the car.

These type of thefts are rarely opportunist and are often planned. If they want your guns they will take your car as well, why spend time unloading your boot?? There is a nice robber, only one window broke and the boot cleared out how considerate of you...

As for the lad who has everything in his back seat or leaves the jeep running when he goes into the shop and comes out to see no jeep and two shotguns gone, well its happened. (In rural safe Ireland) Nothing recovered.

All future licences should be declined in that respect, as they dont have the competence to own them, but yet they got new guns?
Only in Ireland.

Cass · 04-11-2020 1:14pm

I know the elections are ruling the news and i don't really want to turn this into an election watching thread but i had to ask for someone else's opinion.

They called Arizona for Biden a few hours ago. The count is only at 84% and Biden has an 80,000 lead on Trump with the voting split being less than 1%. That means there are over 470,000 votes still to count and if Trump takes over 60% of them he'll actually win the state.

Then shuffle over to Georgia where the count is at 95% and Trump has a 85,000 lead and the media say its too close to call even though Biden who is taking 47% of the vote would need nearly 70% of the remaining votes to win the state.

Who is calling these? Even the Governor of Arizona has come out publicly saying its way too early to call Arizona.

Grizzly 45 · 04-11-2020 2:37pm

Unlike us where we hand count all our votes, and pigeon hole them for recounting if need be,all by hand.
The US ballot is machine-readable with a barcode and a black dot for your canditate of choice,rather than ticks or X[At least in AZ where I voted by mail it was] So they can also be a lot more predictive on how a state, down to the county is voting and thus giving a much quicker tally.

So that can make it easier to call a state, but of course, there can be mechanical faults as well those delay things with this system.hand sanitizer on the ballot papers have caused a problem in one state,as had running out of ink in another on the machine. Then add onto it if you look at the county sizes how quick they can count a small pouplation with the machine to give you a tally.

Am amazed at the California contamination of AZ. Californians leaving because the state is fuked up, and taking their liberal ideals with them to contaminate their new home.So apprently AZ is now going to be a "pothead " state as well.That or there is some serious voter fraud going on there,as it as way too easy for me to get a ballot ,and proof of residence was abit of a joke TBH.

Cass · 04-11-2020 3:13pm

Maybe what you explained has a bearing but for the moment, and it could be my misunderstanding, that is not what i'm asking.

I understand how they count them and thus how they get a projection of the most likely outcome. However it usually is based on number of votes counted, percentage to each candidate, number of votes remaining, and based on previous split of votes the likely outcome in the state.

However, and at the risk of repeating myself, with only 84% of the vote counted (by machine), and the difference between candidates being roughly 1% how can a state call for a candidate when races in other states which have a higher count percentage (over 94%) and slightly higher difference between the votes for each candidate (over 2.5%) be "too close to call"?

TO put is in simpler terms if the remaining uncounted ballots (16%) were all cast for Trump then the call for Biden is wrong.

Feisar · 04-11-2020 3:16pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Am amazed at the California contamination of AZ. Californians leaving because the state is fuked up, and taking their liberal ideals with them to contaminate their new home.So apprently AZ is now going to be a "pothead " state as well.That or there is some serious voter fraud going on there,as it as way too easy for me to get a ballot ,and proof of residence was abit of a joke TBH.

I have read about this, California people moving out and then surprised/upset at a couple of good old boys shooting guns!

Cass · 04-11-2020 5:51pm

Ok here is another one.

Michigan. Trump leading by over 180,000 votes. The electoral map showed it as leaning Red. 138,000 new ballots "found" and counted with ALL of them going to Biden cutting Trumps lead to 50,000. Meanwhile Biden Reps (on SKY) saying two hours ago that they've won Michigan and are positive it'll be called shortly. Before the votes were counted/"found".

How can 138,000 votes ALL be for the one candidate? It's a statistical impossibility.

Now the electoral map shows it leading as blue with Biden winning.

Uinseann_16 · 04-11-2020 5:55pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Unlike us where we hand count all our votes, and pigeon hole them for recounting if need be,all by hand.
The US ballot is machine-readable with a barcode and a black dot for your canditate of choice,rather than ticks or X[At least in AZ where I voted by mail it was] So they can also be a lot more predictive on how a state, down to the county is voting and thus giving a much quicker tally.

So that can make it easier to call a state, but of course, there can be mechanical faults as well those delay things with this system.hand sanitizer on the ballot papers have caused a problem in one state,as had running out of ink in another on the machine. Then add onto it if you look at the county sizes how quick they can count a small pouplation with the machine to give you a tally.

Am amazed at the California contamination of AZ. Californians leaving because the state is fuked up, and taking their liberal ideals with them to contaminate their new home.So apprently AZ is now going to be a "pothead " state as well.That or there is some serious voter fraud going on there,as it as way too easy for me to get a ballot ,and proof of residence was abit of a joke TBH.

Even Texas is infected with the commiefornians:(

Uinseann_16 · 04-11-2020 5:58pm

Cass wrote: »

Ok here is another one.

Michigan. Trump leading by over 180,000 votes. The electoral map showed it as leaning Red. 138,000 new ballots "found" and counted with ALL of them going to Biden cutting Trumps lead to 50,000. Meanwhile Biden Reps (on SKY) saying two hours ago that they've won Michigan and are positive it'll be called shortly. Before the votes were counted/"found".

How can 138,000 votes ALL be for the one candidate? It's a statistical impossibility.

Now the electoral map shows it leading as blue even though Biden is still behind.

Ive seen videos on Tik Tok with people showiing getting multiple ballots with the typical Vote biden F*ck trump rhetoric so....
It seems rigged to be completely honest
They need Voter ID over there :rolleyes:

Cass · 04-11-2020 6:17pm

I'll be honest, i'd like to see Biden win. People will get to see his "master plan" for dealing with the Chinese virus, cause he says he has one that will fix the things Trump hasn't done, as well as the massive tax hikes he has planned. Then the really good stuff will happen with his ban on guns and taxation of accessories kicks in, or won't because he won't have senate control.

Of course he'll have to get all this done with the first year as his own party have said they don't expect him to make it the full four year term. If they maintain control of Congress then they'll have an easy time confirming their new VP after harris takes over from biden.

So will be interesting times ahead.

One other thing will be the rioting that the MSM push as "peaceful protests". It stopped when the democrats found out it was hurting them in the polls and they threatened to get back to it if Trump won. So if Trump loses and there is no rioting, well how can the dems continue to try and blame Trump supporters?

BattleCorp · 04-11-2020 6:23pm

Cass wrote: »

Ok here is another one.

Michigan. Trump leading by over 180,000 votes. The electoral map showed it as leaning Red. 138,000 new ballots "found" and counted with ALL of them going to Biden cutting Trumps lead to 50,000. Meanwhile Biden Reps (on SKY) saying two hours ago that they've won Michigan and are positive it'll be called shortly. Before the votes were counted/"found".

How can 138,000 votes ALL be for the one candidate? It's a statistical impossibility.

Now the electoral map shows it leading as blue with Biden winning.

For such a technologically advanced country, there does seem to be shenanigans going on surrounding voting.

Uinseann_16 · 04-11-2020 6:29pm

The left are going to cause violance whichever way it falls thats the sad truth it wasnt republicans out burning shops and attacking federal buildings
I really would not like to see biden win as hes planning on a big gun control plan which will be matched by our dumb politicias this sde of the pond pandering for votes by doing something too... "for the children" like:o

Grizzly 45 · 04-11-2020 7:23pm

I hate to say this my friends, but if Trump doesn't win and Biden gets in, where he will last all of 6 months before being shuffled off back into his cellar,and Kamala Harris gets in. Then I fear the America we knew will cease to exist as the forefront of Western democracy.

An entire witches coven of Harris, Pelosi, Oscario Cortez, Ilhan Omar, Feinstein along with Cuck Schumer and the rest will turn it into a heaving Socialist mess even further in debt than we ever thought possible, and I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing a State Secessionist movement start again.

Am reading a story cum survival manual by a lad called Selco Begorivc who lived in the former Yugoslavia and survived its civil war. The comparisons he makes between the current situation in the USA in 2019/20 and the former Federal Yougoslavia are absolutely horrifying in similarity.In his case mobs of nationalists of various hues claiming their turf,in our cases mobs of anarchist Leftists carving out their turf in major cities of the US...It only goes down hill from there.

Grizzly 45 · 04-11-2020 7:28pm

On a more cheerful note,this could be good craic while we await the season start and want to get some practise in. 120 euros in Kildare Ballistech.ie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVT_yPWWnyA&fbclid=IwAR3GNcdJD7jFptl98M166lZbzGZW60GDm8OSnWlzp3owb8J5nLDnBUrIOSk

Mellor · 05-11-2020 2:35pm

Cass wrote: »

Maybe what you explained has a bearing but for the moment, and it could be my misunderstanding, that is not what i'm asking.

I understand how they count them and thus how they get a projection of the most likely outcome. However it usually is based on number of votes counted, percentage to each candidate, number of votes remaining, and based on previous split of votes the likely outcome in the state.

However, and at the risk of repeating myself, with only 84% of the vote counted (by machine), and the difference between candidates being roughly 1% how can a state call for a candidate when races in other states which have a higher count percentage (over 94%) and slightly higher difference between the votes for each candidate (over 2.5%) be "too close to call"?

TO put is in simpler terms if the remaining uncounted ballots (16%) were all cast for Trump then the call for Biden is wrong.

To answer your question.
It’s not just down to remaining votes. It’s about the profile of remaining counties or votes. For example in Georgia. They counted the in person votes first, which were much more likely to be red voters. And this creates a false lead. And they know that the absentee votes are going to more blue.
Arizona probably shouldn’t have been called so early. The idea I’m guessing was that counties outstanding were leaning blue so the narrow gap wasn’t going to close.

Also, it’s not the state calling the winner. It’s only Fox News, or CNN or whoever. It has no actual bearing on the result. Not all of them have called Arizona for Biden

Mellor · 05-11-2020 2:55pm

Cass wrote: »

Ok here is another one.

Michigan. Trump leading by over 180,000 votes. The electoral map showed it as leaning Red. 138,000 new ballots "found" and counted with ALL of them going to Biden cutting Trumps lead to 50,000.

Simple answer there is that it didn’t actually happen - bad would be statistically impossible.
It was a error on Decision Desk HQ that somebody tweeted, and Trump re-tweeted. The error was corrected and the original tweet deleted.
https://mobile.twitter.com/freep/status/1324061057640550400

In the 24 hours after the ejection Trump’s twitter was a constant stream of false information. He knows mail votes are valid for example, but is suggesting they shouldn’t be counted. Some people are stupid enough to believe him when he says it’s fraud. I know this is a high stakes for him, but blatantly lying to the country is hardly presidential material.

Grizzly 45 · 05-11-2020 9:04pm

Pretty good opinion on how we should go forward by Mike Lindsay of Owners Rights Co-Operative in NI. Just delete any of the UK references and this can apply here too in the ROI.

The Secret Society Shooters.

The UK is a complicated place and one with many rules. It matters little what it is you plan to do the state will have a say in how you do it. This goes double for the world of legal shooting and firearms ownership – it goes without saying you need to enjoy jumping through hoops to own one legally.

So my thoughts have wandered to why some clubs and shooters here insist on treating the sport like a highly secretive old boys club and I’m scratching my head as to how they think this protects shooting in any way whatsoever.

I can see the logic don’t get me wrong, to them by keeping it secret and only having people they agree with on every level joining their clubs they feel that if it’s kept quiet enough no MPs will bother them with more needless legislation.

Here’s where my thoughts go however,

By keeping shooting needlessly exclusive you don’t grow firearm ownership or encourage new blood to take up shooting, in turn your membership consists of people in older age brackets that fear anything new and you end up having your old members eventually die off, leaving both the club and shooting in the area starving for new faces.

Eventually your secret club vanishes completely and those that would rather civilians didn’t own any firearms laugh at your stupidity.

While I understand and have seen first hand license departments punish people for being open about their passion it in no way puts me off from promotion of ownership or shooting.

Shooting sport is perfectly legal as is ownership.

Talking about it grows interest.

Taking people out shooting grows interest.

Opening up clubs to people a little different than yourself grows interest.

For shooting to survive in 2021 shooters need to realise that having little cliques or bad-mouthing others that do value their liberty isn’t going to save their own skins, on the contrary sitting on your hands is the worst thing you can do. Now I’ve been accused before of being too vocal and speak my mind too well……. Here’s the thing,

Sitting down and saying nothing will not stop more attacks on shooting, it hasn’t worked in the past and it definitely won’t work now that they have removed pistols and semi autos above 22. Hell they just banned MARS rifles, please pay attention. Anyone noticed an attack on Fieldsports? No?

Being timid isn’t going to win any rights back – you need to say it like it is.

You need to be politically aware and able to navigate social media to fight the cause, you need to engage with MPs, you need to challenge the narrative.

You think this guy is going to stop?
I’ve had people try to stop me from speaking, I’ve had threats from various activist groups, messages from “shooters” threatening me that they will “see me soon”.

I’ve had “hunters” that live near me try to Doxx me,

vegans threatening my life……. And none of it stops me.

If something is wrong and you know it is in legislation it is your duty as a citizen to challenge it.

Stand up for what you believe in and stop being cowards.

For those who do fight back, God speed and I will stand with you.

If you plan on doing nothing then get out of the way.

-Mike

Feisar · 05-11-2020 9:55pm

That’s a solid point and really interesting. Apart from an exclusive club there’s also the thing of coming from a shooting house for the want of a better expression. For the likes of me the path to ownership was easy enough in that a gun was not some exotic thing bound up in red tape that was next nigh on impossible to own. I only know two lads that have guns that don’t come from shooting families. One is my best friend so I was the gateway, the other was into ferrets etc so already countryside sports exposed. Can I mention to the intrinsic fear some people have of guns? What the hell is that about?
On talking about it I’ve always been low key, leave no trace. Part of it is security based but the other part is something else. Cause no waves, keep the head down and hopefully I’ll/we'll go unnoticed. I remember reading with incredulity about lads going to court about super’s decisions.
Maybe it comes from a hunter’s natural modus operandi, I don’t know.
Food for thought though.

Grizzly 45 · 06-11-2020 1:23pm

What I find is an acid test for those newbie gun owners is the girlfriend/wife/baby test. They can be out shooting with you morning, noon and night, but once a new bit of alright arrives, becomes the wife, and the Baba is on the way or is there...Well that's where the excuses or the quitters show up.

Best one so far was "Uh ..well since we have had the child [ 5months], we don't want it getting at the gun,so I sold it!"
"But you had it disassembled and the parts are hidden?"[Pre 08 days.Semi shotgun]
"Uh ..Yeah...But you know kids can put it together eventually"

"So why not just buy a trigger lock,or lock and keep your shells up with the medicines and other stuff kids can't get at? This is really.....talking to you isn't it?"

"No,no,no...It's really not for me shooting..[Despite winning a couple of flapper DTL comps]:rolleyes:

Cass · 06-11-2020 4:02pm

So Biden basically has it. Congratulations President-elect Biden.

In a way its a good thing. Watching tv, listening to radio or reading the papers and having story after story about Trump was tiring. Of course there are some issues that'll need to be ironed out now Biden is President elect (well he is, bar the official announcement).

It means an end to any current or future investigation into him, his Son, Obama, Clinton, etc, etc.

So be it. Didn't seem like it was going to happen anyway.

The fun part is, and i said this before, now he has won is he must be able to speak to people regularly, work 20 hour days, meet international leaders and make the same trade and peace deals previous Presidents have done. No more calling a lid after 4 hours and hiding in his basement for 3 to 5 days.

Then there are the election promises such as medicare for all, open borders, health care for illegals not to mention tax hikes across the board, plus his attack on Fracking, 2nd amendment, and his promise to fund the green new deal to the tune of 2 trillion.

The big one will of course be the Chinese virus. He said he has a plan to effectively combat it so now he must deliver on that, not to mention the promises made to ethnic and racial groups during his campaign.

Of course none of this will be his problem in 12 to 18 months because i'm taking bets that is the max he'll serve before Harris takes the reigns. You think Nancy Pelosi was researching how to use the 25th amendment JUST for Trump!.

Its going to be an interesting 4 years. I'm actually looking forward to it.

Munsterlad102 · 06-11-2020 6:45pm

It'll be interesting to see what'll come of any impending legal action from the Trump campaign. It fairly obvious that there's extensive voter fraud with videos emerging of vote counters filling out votes in the counting centre and to several districts reporting over 100% turn out rate and votes from dead people too. I think we would all agree that Biden isn't responsible for any fraud, so hopefully he isn't subjected to the same witch-hunt that Trump was. Ultimately a victory for Biden will see Kamala Harris become president in a matter of month as Biden is a literal senile old man, so it'll be interesting how that pans out. Also let's not forget about threats to the second amendment if Biden is elected, AR-15s may be on the chopping block! Or whether Biden will try and stack the Supreme Court, mar a deir an seanfhocal, is maith an scéalaí an aimsir!

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