Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

sam1986uk wrote: »

ERASMUS was abolished and replaced because it was a cash cow for EU students getting free degrees and absconding without paying the loans back. Boris diplomatically said something along the lines of "The treasury said it just wasn't feasible. ".

Reportedly, over 12,000 graduates have disappeared after gaining their degree in the UK, leaving an unpaid debt of around GBP89 million (US$126 million).

I believe Denmark has an issue with this as well

More likely is that the U.K. refused to participate in Erasmus as the Conservatives wanted to pander to their core xenophobic voters.

If the U.K. was genuinely interested in recouping their money, they could have gone down the path of issuing a European Arrest Warrant for the individuals concerned which would have meant those people would have been liable for arrest and extradition anywhere in the E.U. or EEA as soon as they came to official notice.

yagan wrote: »

Brits will only be able to spend 90 days out of every 180 days on the Schengen tourist visa. I think the 90 days starts on entry so they've three months, then have to be gone for three months before they can return. They can apply for extensions to the host country, but I don't think they can split it up over weeks spread evenly over the years.

It gets even worse for Brits who decide to sell up their property in France as they'll be hit for exit tax, which could eat up about 30% of the total sale. This wasn't a problem while the UK was in the EU.

While existing British immigrant communities may have registered under the withdrawal arrangements the new reality will mean property values in the British enclaves will deflate for lack of new entrants, which may well rob many of the ability to afford to return to Britain if they wanted to.

As mentioned the Spanish and Portuguese will be making Visas available for exactly these non EU folks going forward as it is an industry for them, for the most part the paperwork and requirements should be ok for the class of person who is in a position to retire there.

schmoo2k wrote: »

As mentioned the Spanish and Portuguese will be making Visas available for exactly these non EU folks going forward as it is an industry for them, for the most part the paperwork and requirements should be ok for the class of person who is in a position to retire there.

Its an industry in so far that they can support themselves.

Will UK national pension still payout if someone is resident in spain ?

Do these folks have savings to live off, do they have private healthcare.

These is a good few loose ends tbh.

listermint wrote: »

Will UK national pension still payout if someone is resident in spain ?

The state pension pays out worldwide. Presume the same applies for the Irish. The only question was whether it would be increased to the same level as for people living in the UK every year and that was agreed in the deal. Retirees in Canada and Australia (amongst other places) don't have their pension increased.

looksee wrote: »

You will get a doctor's appointment here much, much easier than in the UK - a GP appointment would routinely be at least a week there.

I presume this is because not everyone gets free GP appointments in Ireland but they do in the UK. I would probably prefer to pay instead of waiting, but not everyone agrees with that. There are some private GP services in the UK that are available if you don't want to wait. Walk in centres are available for those who want to see someone the same day if you are willing to sit in a waiting room for hours.

lawrencesummers wrote: »

What does the change to FOM mean for the British retired to the sun? Is that going to stop now? Will those living there have to head home? Or are they to be granted the right to stay?

Will they will have access to healthcare when living in the EU?

Retired, past tense - no significant change, although if they haven't taken steps to declare themselves formally resident in Spain (or elsewhere in the EU), that will increase the risk of finding themselves on the wrong side of a legal argument. As mentioned above, there are a lot of British retirees who live in a shadowy ex-pat world, driving their RHD cars on the wrong side of the road (with no tax or MOT), popping back to England for medical and surgical treatment on the NHS, and claiming whatever top-up bonuses they can get from the British taxpayer to subsidise their sunny lifestyle in Europe. To a certain extent, that situation suits their host country quite well: as long as they don't crash that dubiously-registered car into a native, and keep their noses clean, it quite handy having those British pounds flowing into the Mediterranean economy and the costly stuff like pensions and healthcare not coming out of the local budget.

The change will be felt by future retirees, who can no longer simply turn a holiday into an extended stay into an indefinite retirement (the same goes for younger families who want to "live the dream") The 90-day rule will scupper the kind of try-before-you-buy experience that many couples/families embark upon before committing to any one place. Without making a more definite commitment to the project (i.e. visa application), a British couple can no longer rent an apartment for six months to see if they like they like the area, if they can work remotely, if they can cope with absence from relatives back home, if the transport links are as good in winter as they look in summer ... And then, if/when they decide to move, they cannot just hire a van and self-drive all their stuff from Bognor to Benidorm - they're back in the old system of having to document all their possessions, and may be prevented from bringing grandma's antique chair or grandad's parrot with them. Not huge obstacles to a permanent move, but a whole lot of faff that we EU-ropeans don't have to worry about. Those hurdles extend to their wider circle of family, friends and colleagues too - in ways such as needing customs declarations on birthday gifts, not being able to offer seasonal work to a nephew, or accidentally pushing someone over the 90-day limit by inviting them to stay another week without realising that they already spent 84 days in other parts of the Schengen Area this semester.

mrunsure wrote: »

I presume this is because not everyone gets free GP appointments in Ireland but they do in the UK. I would probably prefer to pay instead of waiting, but not everyone agrees with that. There are some private GP services in the UK that are available if you don't want to wait. Walk in centres are available for those who want to see someone the same day if you are willing to sit in a waiting room for hours.

The reason for the week+ wait for a normal GP appointment is lack of capacity at GP level.

As in a supermarket or bank, if you add more personnel to process the queue, the length of time needed to reach the top of the queue shrinks.

View wrote: »

The reason for the week+ wait for a normal GP appointment is lack of capacity at GP level.

As in a supermarket or bank, if you add more personnel to process the queue, the length of time needed to reach the top of the queue shrinks.

But if you pay, surely you are more likely to cut your visits to the GP down until you really need it? A lot of people in the UK visit the GP for trivial reasons. People in the UK have discussed whether charges would be a good idea but the consensus appears to be that they don't want people discouraged from visiting the GP.

Jizique wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/ThimontJack/status/1342957701798776832
Institute for Govt analysis out

Link to the publication referred to in that tweet.

After a quick persual, I'm pleased to see that they've come to much the same conclusion as I did - much more of a Switzerland-minus deal than Canada-plus, an overall very favourable to the EU.

EU controls come into effect on Jan 1st; UK controls come into effect on ... ehhh ... soon ... ish ... [checks staff recruitment] [checks progress on building works] [looks for relevant software icon on Windows 95 desktop] ... in due course.

EU gets to cancel some unilateral contingency measures (e.g. for hauliers) and has a better defined date by which others need to be superseded. In the meantime, UK is kept aligned indefinitely with EU regs and standards, especially in respect of workers' rights and environmental protection, which effectively excludes them from operating as a back door for US agricultural produce or cheap Asian imports.

UK finally gets permission to talk to individual states about reciprocal arrangements, ensuring that UK-in-EU service providers now need to work with 27 different sets of rules, not all of which are compatible with each other, and most of which require separate registration in each individual member state.

All-in-all, a lot of cherry picking by the EU in exchange for a few tonnes of fish. Great job, Michel! Enjoy your retirement.

mrunsure wrote: »

Regarding "British enclaves", are there such things as "Irish enclaves" or do the Irish tend to congregate with the British?

Are you referring specifically to the Spanish costas, or the EU as a whole? I can't comment on what it's like in coastal Spain, but in the rest of the EU, no - the Irish don't tend gather in enclaves. In my experience (15 years of it) for whatever reason, the Irish seem to fall into two categories: the genuine "ex-pats" who live in Europe's major cities for a few years while studying/interning/on secondment; and those (like myself) that disappear into the background and are largely indistinguishable from the locals or other European migrants. In the course of those 15 years, traipsing around several countries, I have probably met less than a dozen Irish people "in the wild" (and none of them in an Irish pub! )

CelticRambler wrote: »

Are you referring specifically to the Spanish costas, or the EU as a whole? I can't comment on what it's like in coastal Spain, but in the rest of the EU, no - the Irish don't tend gather in enclaves. In my experience (15 years of it) for whatever reason, the Irish seem to fall into two categories: the genuine "ex-pats" who live in Europe's major cities for a few years while studying/interning/on secondment; and those (like myself) that disappear into the background and are largely indistinguishable from the locals or other European migrants. In the course of those 15 years, traipsing around several countries, I have probably met less than a dozen Irish people "in the wild" (and none of them in an Irish pub! )

I was mostly interested whether there was a parallel to the "British enclave" which has been mentioned several times, which mostly refers to working class Brits in Spain. But your additional information was interesting anyway!

Amongst all the whooping and cheering and great sighs of relief on the Amazon thread, one small point was raised (and ignored) but will be an interesting thing to watch: the no-duties rule does not apply to "diagonal" trade agreements*. A case in point: I ordered napkins for my Christmas table from a GB virtual store trading on Amazon.fr ; they were clearly marked "made in India" in the product description; they were dispatched from GB. Given that these napkins have no component parts other than the cotton thread, and are therefore 100% non-British, my understanding of the new rules is that they cannot be imported duty-free from the UK in the future.

This would fit with Amazon's previously instruction to its marketplace traders that they need to have stock in the EU for delivery to EU customers, and would be a sensible precaution for the EU to take vis à vis not entirely trustworthy British drop-shippers. For people like me living in France, who has to make an effort to find and buy stuff from the UK, and pay for it to be delivered, it won't change a lot. But I would think that this is an example of where Irish customers are going to find themselves frustrated by this prohibition on "diagonal" imports. Over on the Amazon thread, they're still obsessing about VAT and the 22/150€ thresholds and seemingly oblivious to the border down the Irish Sea. :rolleyes:

Something else for which I can't get any hard info at the moment is the import of chilled products - can I, or can't I, buy a job lot of pork pies the next time I pop over to England in my campervan?

Edit: * for those not up to speed with the jargon - UK has FTA with OtherCountry; EU has FTA with OtherCountry; a diagonal import is when EU customer buys something made in OtherCountry from a UK supplier.

Second edit: have just realised that this will apply to a huge chunk of GB clothing retailers selling online to IE customers. :eek:

breezy1985 wrote: »

My GP in England would always phone interview me first so I would be unable to go for something trivial.

Before Covid I had never been called by my GP. Since Covid appointments are by phone first and then you get called into the surgery if needed.

breezy1985 wrote: »

The only place I saw a difference in culture in healthcare was the A&E where my English friends would go for every little cut

Yes, that's true, and the NHS is fed up of the misuse of A&E. In Ireland there's a charge for visiting A&E without a referral which would stop such behaviour.