The Leinster Championship is dead.

largepants wrote: »

And why dont you ask them instead of assuming they're not.

Shows a level of arrogance.

I have asked in the past not received replies. How you get arrogance out my statement I don’t know.

largepants wrote: »

Have you asked many on Hill 16 if they are members?

I don’t frequent that site.

gaffer91 wrote: »

There are other ideas but you seem to wilfully ignore them. The same way you repeatedly lie and claim people are saying Dublin's success is only down to money. Nobody says that.

Regardless, a split of Dublin is a great idea, you just don't like it so instead run around coming up with laughable alternatives

Go on I am all ears? (willing to listen to someone who was only in their cot when Dublin played Meath in the four in a row)
Plus you would not have been old enough to remember Meath in 99 either.

I can understand your frustration, it must be painful. You missed a golden era of Meath football with a great manager, and only have a 'stolen' Leinster final in 2010 to crow about, as the most recent victory.

You seem to imply that Dublin's success is down to money, as your sole solution seems to be splitting Dublin in two. Then you had a brainwave of splitting Dublin in four. Some might even call it inspired.

What are the rest of your solutions spilt Dublin in 8 or in 16? Because I have yet to hear any solution from you other than spitting Dublin in some shape or form.

However, you have not countenanced who would finance such a decision. Who would pay for the stadiums that would have to be built? And how would the Leinster council make up for the loss of funds which the 'Dublin brand' generate for them. Those funds benefit all the other counties in Leinster.

So while you may deride my suggestions as laughable, as is your prerogative. At least I am am thinking of many viable alternatives.

Ranging from the simple, to the more complex.

Meath and Kildare making more use of the parentage rule.

Or making bringing in a 'Dublin player quota' to help the likes of Meath and Kildare and strengthen their team. It worked in Irish basketball where American imports were on a quota in each team. Colm o'Rourke has mentioned something similar in the past a proud Meathman.

You mention the spilt as if it would be easy to do. I would argue that it is much easier to amalgamate rather than demerge an entity in the GAA's case this has been proven at club level.

Have you asked yourself in a business sense is a demerger or merger better of xyz county and why?

https://www.accountancyage.com/2018/04/19/merger-vs-de-merger-whats-better-business/

Because that is what GAA counties are corporate entities who wish to make a profit to reinvest to make them stronger in the future.

I would argue there should be both mergers and demergers in the GAA if you are going to go that route.

Or should it not be a merger but an amalgamation?

Note:

An amalgamation is a combination of two or more companies into a new entity. Amalgamation is distinct from a merger because neither company involved survives as a legal entity.



For the record I am not against a spilt. However, I believe that any spilt should be done in conjunction with amalgamations. In my opinion.

Amalgamations are common at club level in GAA and they work well.
Why not at county level? It would put Kildare and Meath in a stronger position.

Just like Dub like me might have to accept a split, others may have to accept an amalgamation. However, both are conceived with same end goal. Namely, to make Leinster counties more competitive. And firstly help counties who struggle in div1 like Meath and Kildare to get closer to that National standard.

dunnerc wrote: »

Kerry 81 Munster titles - 37 All Ireland titles
Dublin 58 Leinster titles - 29 All Ireland titles

Eh i dont think so mate :rolleyes:

Munster is a hurling province first and foremost. The only county where football has primary focus is Kerry.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Here is an article that might interest some of you.

https://punditarena.com/gaa/mcorry/colm-orourke-division-dublin/


Colm O'Rourke:

(2019 after Dublin became the first team in history to do the five in a row - while the rest of the country looked on in pure admiration and awe )

“People talk about funding, I don’t think Dublin are over-funded, in fact, I think they’re under-funded because the funding goes to the development of clubs and that’s the most important thing of all. All of these coaching officers are doing a fantastic job in encouraging young people in primary schools to play Gaelic Games and for me, it’s a phenomenal success and it’s something that should be continued."

“The only other way, if they’re not going to divide Dublin, is there has to be some way where a lot of the very good club footballers in Dublin are either encouraged to go and play with other counties which for some reason hasn’t happened with parental rules or some type of transfer system.”

Colm O’rourke is fervently pro split. He’s talked and written about that far more than Dublin rejects joining other counties. So he’s a bit of a strange example to use.

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Munster is a hurling province first and foremost. The only county where football has primary focus is Kerry.

Exactly, which makes a joke of the whole GAA provincial system. The most successful county in the history of Gaelic football in a hurling province.

If that is not an unfair advantage to Kerry and disadvantage to others I don't know what is? An extremely easy run to the AI SF's.

I would argue that the rest of Leinster (barring Dublin) is fast coming close to the levels Munster barring Kerry. Or maybe Munster has overtaken Leinster?


Leinster Teams league standings 2020

Dublin div1

Meath[ div 1 relegated 1 draw (13 years previous in div 2)

Kildare div 2

Westmeath div 2

Laois div 2

Offaly div 3

Longford div 3

Louth div 3 relegated (no points)

Wicklow div 4 promoted won

Wexford div 4

Carlow div 4

2020 two div 1 teams. three div 2 teams, three div 3 teams, three div 4 teams

2021 One div 1 team, four div 2 teams, four div 3 teams, two div 4 teams

--
--

Munster teams league standings 2020

Kerry div 1 winners

Clare div 2

Cork div 3 promoted won

Tipperary div 3

Limerick div 4

Waterford div 4

2020 One div 1 team, one div 2 team, two div 3 teams, two div 4 teams

2021 One div 1 team, two div 2 teams, one div 3 team, two div 4 teams



--
--

Very little between the provinces which says more about Leinster's overall decline, than it does about Dublin's improvement in my view.

Did you smash it wrote: »

Colm O’rourke is fervently pro split. He’s talked and written about that far more than Dublin rejects joining other counties. So he’s a bit of a strange example to use.

I suggest you take time to actually read what I posted and Colm O'Rourke said:


“The only other way, if they’re not going to divide Dublin, is there has to be some way where a lot of the very good club footballers in Dublin are either encouraged to go and play with other counties which for some reason hasn’t happened with parental rules or some type of transfer system.”

I know it is tempting to dismiss a post out of hand when you do not like the sound of it. I used to be the same when Kerry pundits used to say Dublin had few/no 'footballers' who could play the skills of the game.

Plus many on this thread seemed oblivious to the parentage rule in the GAA. An easy solution. You have to ask why Kildare and Meath (or others in Leinster) have not pursued it aggressively.

I also suggested a Dublin quota system for Leinster teams as a transfer type idea similar to O'Rourke except with more detail and a cut off at 5. Because I feel more than five Dublin players in another county team and it could begin to lose it's identity and hamper the development of local players. Which would be counterproductive.

gormdubhgorm wrote:

Also Kerry won 15 Munsters out of the last 20 that is not in the 1930's or 1980's.

It's not hard in what is normally a two horse race. Have the other counties, not including Cork, even 20 between them.
And Dublin did a far more difficult task and won 11 Leinster titles in a row and covid didn't affect them. They've won six All-Ireland titles in a row and are odds on to make it seven.

Talk of splitting Dublin is gas. Youd just end up with Dublin A v Dublin B in the all Ireland final. Then the real crying would start.

dobman88 wrote: »

Talk of splitting Dublin is gas. Youd just end up with Dublin A v Dublin B in the all Ireland final. Then the real crying would start.

My first thought... but the anti Dubs as well as splitting the capital would want the draw rigged to enable a North vs South game well before the semis to avoid that... imagine the amount of fûcking dummies being spat if in September, Croker was ALL blue and three out of four years it was North Vs South in a final...

They’d be on here.. “ahem, what about four teams, North, South, East and West Dublin ?” :eek:

eagle eye wrote: »

It's not hard in what is normally a two horse race. Have the other counties, not including Cork, even 20 between them.
And Dublin did a far more difficult task and won 11 Leinster titles in a row and covid didn't affect them. They've won six All-Ireland titles in a row and are odds on to make it seven.

Nope Dublin have won 5 All Ireland titles in a row and are odds on to make it 6;)

ArielAtom wrote: »

I don’t frequent that site.

Site? I was on about the actual Hill 16.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I said similar to them as well. It would be a bit like splitting the Soviet Union in the soccer. It was the beginning of the end for Ireland loads of awkward countries started appearing.

Yugoslavia the same lots of class players and teams, appeared when they split.

Which is why I think the easiest and wisest choice for Kildare or Meath would be to pursue xyz number of Dublin players. Ones that cannot get in the Dublin panel. Or elsewhere. Parentage rule is there to be used.

It will strengthen them. Plus with one Dublin team no matter how strong they are can only field 15 at any one time. And six subs.

Yet, the Leinster counties might only be creating another obstacle against any limited success they could have.

If Dublin spilt, what I could see happening is one Dublin county becomes a feeder county, for the 'main' Dublin team.

And deals would be made between the two 'Dublin' counties on transfers between their clubs. There is no 'parish rule' in Dublin so it could be easy.

But, I seem to be the only one to think of these type of practicalities, as well as yourself.

If people think Seanie 'I can see your house from here' Johnston was bad between Cavan and Kildare. The best hurler in Kildare I believe? Wait until the Dublin A and Dublin B teams have a free run. No parish rule, lovely stuff.

It is obvious the two Dublin teams will work closely together, as they will not be 'rivals'. Only seeing themselves as Dubs.

You, are spot on. It will be gas the more I think of it.

It is a lot like Brexit started off with keeping the foreigners out. Now they realise they might not be able to get food in.

Splitting Dublin is another example not understanding the full complexity of a problem. Only thinking of it in narrow terms.

It is the law of unintended consequences in action

Could you see young Quinns house from where you live? Or Declan Darcys? Or Ryan O Dwyers? Etc etc etc

largepants wrote: »

Yea thats very mature. Someone doesnt agree with your point so you stick them on ignore.

How very Gemma O Doherty of you.

Absolutely nothing to do with difference of opinion. If you read through the thread you will see I have agreed with the need for change. I am a forward looking person. The majority of arguments here focus on what has occurred and not on a real and lasting solution. But you keep throwing out the snide personal digs. It says more about you than me.

Bonniedog wrote: »

That old chestnut.

All tickets for the Hill for big games are either through clubs or Parnell Park Pass, so be quite accurate to say that all have some close connection to a club, past or present.

I think you've picked me wrong.

Either way he can't assume people on here are not members. No more than anyone can with those on Hill 16