Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
The Leinster Championship is dead.
Options
Comments
-
Did you smash it wrote: »No they don’t.
They don’t have the winners from league A playing the league B, C or D winners in the nations league. Because watching Spain playing north Macedonia in a big Semi final is a waste of time.
Your proposal makes no sense. You’re putting all the best teams in one group and having the worst teams in one group and making qualification rights to be the same from each. Hence Kerry and Mayo would want to be relegated to get out of Dublins group and into a easy group.
In theory yeah. But the provinces can be rejigged or kept as is where required.
Keep them like it for a while 2-5 years
They do it all the time in Hurling making up rules as they go.
Having Kerry Mayo and Dublin in one group is no more as daft as Monaghan Donegal Tyrone now. When Kerry have Clare Limerick and Waterford in the same province.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »In theory yeah. But the provinces can be rejigged or kept as is where required.
Keep them like it for a while 2-5 years
They do it all the time in Hurling making up rules as they go.
Having Kerry Mayo and Dublin in one group is no more as daft as Monaghan Donegal Tyrone now. When Kerry have Clare Limerick and Waterford in the same province.
The present system is daft but at least has been there for 133 years and at least has a geographical meaning. Your proposal is just daft.
There’s not enough teams that can compete with Dublin (kerry are probably the only one) and your proposal doesn’t fix that. In fairness all proposed formats don’t fix that.
The all Ireland series is losing meaning because it’s meant to be a quest of finding the best team in Ireland. Now not only do we already know without anyone kicking a ball who are the best team, it’s also very close to the stage where the best team is unbeatable and quite a young team.0 -
Did you smash it wrote: »The present system is daft but at least has been there for 133 years and at least has a geographical meaning. Your proposal is just daft.
This is what annoys me it is daft - but sure 'tradition' and that is how it is always done :mad:There’s not enough teams that can compete with Dublin (kerry are probably the only one) and your proposal doesn’t fix that. In fairness all proposed formats don’t fix that.
When KK and Kerry had teams in thier pomp there was not many that could compete either. Dublin were supposed to be Kerry's rivals in the 70's. Reality was once Dublin aged Kerry were too good for them.
It was only in 2009 which was the first time Kerry failed to beat Dublin in league/championship in God knows how long. Draw in Parnell. It was not a real rivalry until about 2013 (AI SF) now it is again, imo. Kerry are on the up and Dublin's key men are on the dip. Will meet in the middle again like 2013.The all Ireland series is losing meaning because it’s meant to be a quest of finding the best team in Ireland. Now not only do we already know without anyone kicking a ball who are the best team, it’s also very close to the stage where the best team is unbeatable and quite a young team.
If it was a normal year I am convinced Dublin would not have the legs, and Kerry would have won Sam. I also think Donegal could have beaten Dublin.
Plus the AI is not the best team in Ireland in my opinion. Teams can get lucky on the day or with the draw. The real barometer for the best in Ireland is league and championship over at least 2-3 years. You can see a consistency then.
In future Tyrone should be harder to play against if they get the balance between attack and defence some great young players. Plus Mayo have some good young players as well to mix with thier old heads.
Dublin are still heavily dependent on one club for the spine of the team in Ballymun. And plus Cluxton imo.
It all can easily turn.
After that Dublin would beat all the others even with a B game imo.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
0 -
So it okay for voluntary amalgamations but Dublin must be spilt and spilt into 4 at that.
You're agenda is clear. You simply want to weaken Dublin
And you simply want to see the current situation continue so you always win.gormdubhgorm wrote: »Lots of Dubs would go ape and rip up season tickets never to attend a game again, some would view it as bit of craic and curiosity.
But to get to that point first you would have to develop a whole new County Board structure.
Plus would you as a GAA man be happy fund a new Dublin stadium or two, to accommodate the two teams? Dublin has no 25k 30k stadium. There are two GAA stadiums on the Northside of Dublin one too big (CP) and the other too small (Parnell).
To create a whole two Counties out of one is as big a problem as Brexit. Easier said than done, Very difficult on many levels
Plus, I would say the GAA will lose money on branding sponsorship and so on. In fact it could well inversely effect the Leinster Council coffers for a long time.
....
Amalgamation is a much more feasible solution for Kildare and Meath. The GAA are well used to it at club level. This would be club level on a bigger scale.
Plus the existing structures in Kildare and Meath GAA could be kept as hubs for the new Lilly-Royal team. Easy to make a logo for that as well.
So it is ok to make other counties amalgamate, but perish the thought Dublin would split.
Ultimately you will end up with Rest of Leinster versus Dublin.
As long as Dublin continues as is, intercounty football and eventually intercounty anything will be doomed.
No county can compete with the resources of Dublin as is now harnessed.
As you have argued elsewhere the intercounty system is ultimately doomed and the future is probably clubs, evenually with superclubs in most counties, definitely a few in most provinces.So the child in the country deserves more funding than the child in Dublin.
Where is the level playing field in that?
Well for the last 15 odd years the child in Dublin got way more funding than any kid elsewhere so was that a level playing field ?
BTW that has been proven either using population, club numbers or registered player numbers just in case you try argue otherwise.gormdubhgorm wrote: »Of course there is.
Kerry Dublin and Mayo in the same province of three.
I would put Galway Kildare Tyrone in another province.
Donegal, Monaghan Meath in another province
Cavan Tipp Cork in another province.
Oh fooking thanks a lot.
So Mayo and Kerry have to travel the length and breath of the country.
And who does the winner of this province then play ?
The winner of the next weakest province ?
PS the national League is already there you know to put similar teams together in a competition.gormdubhgorm wrote: »12 teams all of fairly equal levels in each pot/province.
It is no more daft than the current provincial system anway!
Home and away top two or one qualify for knockouts whatever way you want to put it.
I would attend all the games as a neutral if Mayo Dublin and Kerry were in the same province!
Would they all be played in Croke Park for you ?gormdubhgorm wrote: »Sort of like a nations league soccer idea.
Do you have any idea how the nations league works.
Whatever you are on at the moment it is time to stop and maybe go for a walk to clear the head a wee bit.0 -
And you simply want to see the current situation continue so you always win.
So it is ok to make other counties amalgamate, but perish the thought Dublin would split.
Ultimately you will end up with Rest of Leinster versus Dublin.
Do both split and amalgamation's then? Leinster council would lose a fortune for competing counties no 'Dublin GAA' brand no moreAs long as Dublin continues as is, intercounty football and eventually intercounty anything will be doomed.
Is that a line from Dad's Army? Dublin have raised the level of GAA after Donegal and Tyrone moved it on. Would you be happy with all teams still play 12 behind the ball?As you have argued elsewhere the intercounty system is ultimately doomed and the future is probably clubs, evenually with superclubs in most counties, definitely a few in most provinces.Well for the last 15 odd years the child in Dublin got way more funding than any kid elsewhere so was that a level playing field
GAA has never been a level playing field. For Instance your team play in a province with NY, Leitrim, and London.
Donegal meanwhile face Tyrone and Monaghan etcOh fooking thanks a lot.
So Mayo and Kerry have to travel the length and breath of the country.
And who does the winner of this province then play ?
The winner of the next weakest province ?
No pleasing you, yet Mayo have no problem going to London or NY. Or having London lads travel to Mayo etc.
Do you want to see good games or not? I was thinking open draw after top 1/2
qualifies whichever way you set it up.PS the national League is already there you know to put similar teams together in a competition.
Step towards a home and away league like the super 8's will hopefully become.Would they all be played in Croke Park for you ?
Home and away - each teamDo you have any idea how the nations league works.
Whatever you are on at the moment it is time to stop and maybe go for a walk to clear the head a wee bit.
I know it is not exactly the same but I think my idea makes way more sense than the current system.
All I got as a real negative is 'tradition'. As a basic idea seems sound with a few tweaks. I have seen no other ideas bar 'spilt dublin'
In fact on this whole thread I am the only one who has mentioned all of the following- the parentage rule used more in the gAA, amalgamation, Dublin 5 player quotas for other counties.
All viable ideas yet all the geniuses on this thread can think of is splitting Dublin. And what then 2 Dublin's would need at least 1 25k/30k stadium southside. Maybe 1 25k/35k Northside as well. Would you moan if the GAA fund them Dublin prices?
Also the two Dublin's only use CP in SF and Finals of AI. If required moved only if both teams agreeGuff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
0 -
Advertisement
-
gormdubhgorm wrote: »This is what annoys me it is daft - but sure 'tradition' and that is how it is always done :mad:
When KK and Kerry had teams in thier pomp there was not many that could compete either. Dublin were supposed to be Kerry's rivals in the 70's. Reality was once Dublin aged Kerry were too good for them.
It was only in 2009 which was the first time Kerry failed to beat Dublin in league/championship in God knows how long. Draw in Parnell. It was not a real rivalry until about 2013 (AI SF) now it is again, imo. Kerry are on the up and Dublin's key men are on the dip. Will meet in the middle again like 2013.
If it was a normal year I am convinced Dublin would not have the legs, and Kerry would have won Sam. I also think Donegal could have beaten Dublin.
Plus the AI is not the best team in Ireland in my opinion. Teams can get lucky on the day or with the draw. The real barometer for the best in Ireland is league and championship over at least 2-3 years. You can see a consistency then.
In future Tyrone should be harder to play against if they get the balance between attack and defence some great young players. Plus Mayo have some good young players as well to mix with thier old heads.
Dublin are still heavily dependent on one club for the spine of the team in Ballymun. And plus Cluxton imo.
It all can easily turn.
After that Dublin would beat all the others even with a B game imo.
When people have to do this kind of mental gymnastics to try and convince somebody or maybe even themselves that their own team isn’t unbeatable then you know championship is a dead duck....
I’ve been saying since 2010 or so that Dublin would be too strong in future. I thought back then they would split Dublin to fix it but I see other better solutions now.
We’ll struggle on with a zombie championship for about a decade and then when the dubs are bored of winning and everyone else is bored of losing we’ll actually move to copying the popular competition formats of the NFL and the Premier league.0 -
So the child in the country deserves more funding than the child in Dublin.
Where is the level playing field in that?
Dublin had a 1.3m surplus from their own commercial activities (not including GAA development funding) - very few counties can compete with that and certainly none in Leinster. At the same time they are receiving many multiples of what "the child" in the country is receiving directly from the GAA. The "child" in Dublin is currently a very wealthy child compared to his proverbial country cousin, in terms of development opportunities available to them. The focus of the gaa should be to give weaker counties a help up, not giving the most dominant county a hand out
Look, of course money doesn't kick points or buy all irelands, but it does buy better coaching, better coaching raises standards, better players kick more points. Nobody will ever know for sure how much all that extra funding has helped Dublin, but the results are fairly obvious. Maybe if they were left to their own devices all those years ago they would still be winning by 10pts instead of 20pts, or wouldn't be winning at all or maybe we would be talking about a competitive Leinster championship. We will never know for sure as the gaa decided the would focus attention on the capital and we now are where we are
I posted previously that of course Dublin should get more money, should they get 17x more than the next biggest county? I don't think they should. It's time to for the gaa to declare mission accomplished in Dublin, let them fend for themselves on their own considerable dime, and to spread the love to other counties to try and bring some competition back into the championship0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »Dublin are still heavily dependent on one club for the spine of the team in Ballymun. And plus Cluxton imo.
It all can easily turn..
Dublin haven't lost a player (or manager apparently) in the last ten years that they couldn't replace without skipping a beat0 -
Well for the last 15 odd years the child in Dublin got way more funding than any kid elsewhere so was that a level playing field ?
Can you show a single piece of evidence to show investment in underage in Dublin has been higher, per head, than elsewhere in the country.
I would love to see how you can back this up, in any way.
This is just false. I have to say, fair play to you. I start this discussion looking for ways to find a solution to this issue, to move towards a level playing field. I've reached a place where I am defending Dublin, because of the bull thats being thrown around.0 -
Did you smash it wrote: »When people have to do this kind of mental gymnastics to try and convince somebody or maybe even themselves that their own team isn’t unbeatable then you know championship is a dead duck....
I’ve been saying since 2010 or so that Dublin would be too strong in future. I thought back then they would split Dublin to fix it but I see other better solutions now.
We’ll struggle on with a zombie championship for about a decade and then when the dubs are bored of winning and everyone else is bored of losing we’ll actually move to copying the popular competition formats of the NFL and the Premier league.
Look at Final last year Dublin should have lost. If they did would we be even having this discussion?
Plus anyone who knows football knows Dublin were wrecked that Ballymun engine had no legs left. Na Fianna knocked them out in the Dublin championship after the five in a row AI.
Plus you said the championship is boring. Structure is the major issue. I find Connacht and Munster boring Galway or Mayo (yawn)- who cares and even if the Rossies cause a shock. Galway and Mayo will be still in the backdoor.
Munster double yawn - more like a deep sleep - a flipping coma.
--
Covid 19 has basically saved and skewed Munster for 1year, skewed Ulster, and given Dublin a nice long much needed rest.
Oh and covid19 has been great for boards.ie as well.
League is the best GAA competition by far imo any fool not blinded by 'tradition' would see that. I love the league. AI SF's are the few times it is like the league knockout phase normally div1 teams facing each other.
People go on about equality yet the GAA (since it is founded) has div 4/div3 teams playing div 1 teams. If people think that is equal - I give up.
The only time the GAA is vaguely equal is when they vote at congress.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
0 -
Advertisement
-
StupidLikeAFox wrote: »Dublin haven't lost a player (or manager apparently) in the last ten years that they couldn't replace without skipping a beat
Jack McCaffrey - Africa (was missed)
Diarmuid Connolly - Donegal Boston (was missed)
Straight away. No carbon copies of those lads.
Jury out on Dessie, easy draw this year plus only a few games. If he flops what will you say then?Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
0 -
What’s really amusing on here is the little cohort of thankers😂 I do wonder how many of them are actually members of the association.0
-
Dublin fans who are always talking down their team and talking up the opposition.
It’s odd. I’ve never seen fans of a champion team behave like that. It’s so joyless.0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »
All I got as a real negative is 'tradition'. As a basic idea seems sound with a few tweaks. I have seen no other ideas bar 'spilt dublin'
There are other ideas but you seem to wilfully ignore them. The same way you repeatedly lie and claim people are saying Dublin's success is only down to money. Nobody says that.
Regardless, a split of Dublin is a great idea, you just don't like it so instead run around coming up with laughable alternatives.Can you show a single piece of evidence to show investment in underage in Dublin has been higher, per head, than elsewhere in the country.
I would love to see how you can back this up, in any way.
This is just false. I have to say, fair play to you. I start this discussion looking for ways to find a solution to this issue, to move towards a level playing field. I've reached a place where I am defending Dublin, because of the bull thats being thrown around.
This evidence has literally been provided hundreds of times on countless threads on recent years, some of which you have posted in yourself. I suggest using the search function and having a read.gormdubhgorm wrote: »Jack McCaffrey - Africa (was missed)
Diarmuid Connolly - Donegal Boston (was missed)
Straight away. No carbon copies of those lads.
Jury out on Dessie, easy draw this year plus only a few games. If he flops what will you say then?
They won the All-Ireland those years still. At least when Dublin win the next five All-Irelands it'll give the lie to the idea that Gavin was an outstanding manager. We can't say he is a bad one but all we can really say is he can win with a team when they are given every unfair advantage under the sun.0 -
Did you smash it wrote: »Dublin fans who are always talking down their team and talking up the opposition.
It’s odd. I’ve never seen fans of a champion team behave like that. It’s so joyless.
They've learned from Kerry.0 -
I do wonder how many of them are actually members of the association.
I do wonder after you saying the funding to Dublin was cut after 2017 and that the money went into primary school kids only in their schools but not their clubs what’s the next untrue claim you’re going to make.
The fact that you can go on posting with a chip on your shoulder after being exposed multiple times for making untrue claims is quite revealing about your personality.0 -
Did you smash it wrote: »Dublin fans who are always talking down their team and talking up the opposition.
It’s odd. I’ve never seen fans of a champion team behave like that. It’s so joyless.
If you talk about in any way positive you are considered any arrogant bstard. But hey we all know deep down what high esteem they are held in, shure even Pat Spillane called them the greatest team of all time. All hail Pat!!!0 -
Did you smash it wrote: »I do wonder after you saying the funding to Dublin was cut after 2017 and that the money went into primary school kids only in their schools but not their clubs what’s the next untrue claim you’re going to make.
The fact that you can go on posting with a chip on your shoulder after being exposed multiple times for making untrue claims is quite revealing about your personality.
Utter crap. I have posted facts. Most of the detractors on here are very balanced posters, the have a chip on both shoulders. If you can offer up any proof to your claims other that if, what’s, mights, maybes and what you read on the internet I’m all ears.0 -
Can you show a single piece of evidence to show investment in underage in Dublin has been higher, per head, than elsewhere in the country.
I would love to see how you can back this up, in any way.
This is just false. I have to say, fair play to you. I start this discussion looking for ways to find a solution to this issue, to move towards a level playing field. I've reached a place where I am defending Dublin, because of the bull thats being thrown around.
I don’t care about funding really but it’s amazing that people can see one county get 18 million for funding over 10 years (which doesn’t include the Bertie money of another 5 million) and the rest get between 500k and 1.6 million and they start making arguments in their head about how that can be fair?
How can a large group of people be that myopic that one county getting over 10 times the funding of the next doesn’t make you realize that in any context that’s a bit of a red flag? Bizarre.0 -
Utter crap. I have posted facts. Most of the detractors on here are very balanced posters, the have a chip on both shoulders. If you can offer up any proof to your claims other that if, what’s, mights, maybes and what you read on the internet I’m all ears.
It would be good for your own personal development if you realized you made provable untrue statements at least three times in this discussion and could seek to improve your posts when these were pointed out to you. Instead you appear indignant or just deny all knowledge.0 -
Advertisement
-
Let's look at this year's championship as an example. Tipperary winning the Munster title and Cavan winning the Ulster title. Mayo have won a good few Connaught titles in recent years but Connaught is a pretty tight province, a few teams have a chance of winning it every year. We could be looking at a great championship, the possibility of Tipperary and Cavan reaching an All Ireland final. Since the 1990's, I think it's 22 counties that have won a provincial title. Other counties like Fermanagh, Louth, Limerick, Clare have either come close or performed really well in championship football. Football is very competitive and open, there are so many counties operating at a very good level and they have opportunities to win things. That's in Munster, Connaught and Ulster. The Leinster championship and the All Ireland championship is a closed book. The reason for that is Dublin. Without Dublin, we would have a fantastic championship. The Leinster championship would be wide open, as would the All Ireland.
From the facts above, the solution is clear. We must split Dublin. We can't allow a county to take millions of euros to professionalise their system and then allow them to remain intact while amalgamating other counties who've competed fairly. It's just not on. The populations of Dublin's 4 new counties are higher than the majority of counties in Ireland. They have the resources capable of competing. It would also bring in a few new derbies which would be exciting for the supporters of those counties. Of course, Leinster would then be too big, we would need to restructure things. This could lead to an open draw system or another one, we can get to that at a later date.
The most important thing is to split Dublin, it's the only hope of saving Gaelic football and hurling in the long term. Obviously, this will be met with opposition from Dublin supporters who are happy to go along with the status quo of receiving millions and winning loads of All Ireland's. The benefits of this will need to be shown. More players will have the possibility of playing inter county football in Dublin. The fight against other sports can be upgraded as there will be 4 counties trying to improve their lot. With a new system in place and a huge number of teams competing at the top level, including 4 new counties, it will be a really exciting championship and will bring life back into Gaelic Football.
The details of all this would have to be looked into and of course, this restructure would also include the restructuring of finances where every county is given a fair allocation and a fair opportunity to compete. It will be a tough process and we'll have some bumps along the way but it's one that we must push for. It's the only way forward and it's exhillerating.0 -
Let's look at this year's championship as an example. Tipperary winning the Munster title and Cavan winning the Ulster title. Mayo have won a good few Connaught titles in recent years but Connaught is a pretty tight province, a few teams have a chance of winning it every year. We could be looking at a great championship, the possibility of Tipperary and Cavan reaching an All Ireland final. Since the 1990's, I think it's 22 counties that have won a provincial title. Other counties like Fermanagh, Louth, Limerick, Clare have either come close or performed really well in championship football. Football is very competitive and open, there are so many counties operating at a very good level and they have opportunities to win things. That's in Munster, Connaught and Ulster. The Leinster championship and the All Ireland championship is a closed book. The reason for that is Dublin. Without Dublin, we would have a fantastic championship. The Leinster championship would be wide open, as would the All Ireland.
From the facts above, the solution is clear. We must split Dublin. We can't allow a county to take millions of euros to professionalise their system and then allow them to remain intact while amalgamating other counties who've competed fairly. It's just not on. The populations of Dublin's 4 new counties are higher than the majority of counties in Ireland. They have the resources capable of competing. It would also bring in a few new derbies which would be exciting for the supporters of those counties. Of course, Leinster would then be too big, we would need to restructure things. This could lead to an open draw system or another one, we can get to that at a later date.
The most important thing is to split Dublin, it's the only hope of saving Gaelic football and hurling in the long term. Obviously, this will be met with opposition from Dublin supporters who are happy to go along with the status quo of receiving millions and winning loads of All Ireland's. The benefits of this will need to be shown. More players will have the possibility of playing inter county football in Dublin. The fight against other sports can be upgraded as there will be 4 counties trying to improve their lot. With a new system in place and a huge number of teams competing at the top level, including 4 new counties, it will be a really exciting championship and will bring life back into Gaelic Football.
The details of all this would have to be looked into and of course, this restructure would also include the restructuring of finances where every county is given a fair allocation and a fair opportunity to compete. It will be a tough process and we'll have some bumps along the way but it's one that we must push for. It's the only way forward and it's exhillerating.
I think the dogs on the street know that dublin needs to be split up its just a matter of when and how.Like i have said before morketing dept will look after a lot of these new teams and counties.0 -
I think the dogs on the street know that dublin needs to be split up its just a matter of when and how.Like i have said before morketing dept will look after a lot of these new teams and counties.
Been hearing that for a fair few number of years now. Normally just prior to Dublin winning an All Ireland.0 -
I think the dogs on the street know that dublin needs to be split up its just a matter of when and how.Like i have said before morketing dept will look after a lot of these new teams and counties.
Yes, for sure. There will be a major by into these teams. Dublin's population will be 1.8 million in 10 years, the only choice is to split Dublin. There's no way around it.0 -
well either that or scrap inter county and go semi pro and be done with it and use the club system and transfers etc , it would probabaly fairest.0
-
well either that or scrap inter county and go semi pro and be done with it and use the club system and transfers etc , it would probabaly fairest.
The inter county competitions have been around for a long time now and giving up on that is something nobody wants. Especially when there's such an easy fix. Yes, there will be objections but the results of the change will have huge benefits for all and the questions over the future of Gaelic Football will be put on the back burner.
This can be turned around. A fair and equitable system is there for us if we fight for it. We're at a vital crossroads in all this. The steps we take in the next few years are of huge importance.0 -
i think one quite easy and palatable form of protest for Leinster teams at least would be not fulfilling fixtures v dublin in the leinster championship. Let dublin go in to croke park with fans on hill 16 , ref throws in the ball and no team to play against, that would bring things to a head fairly quick, it has a good plus for Leinster teams too. they wouldnt have to go through the dublin game0
-
i think one quite easy and palatable form of protest for Leinster teams at least would be not fulfilling fixtures v dublin in the leinster championship. Let dublin go in to croke park with fans on hill 16 , ref throws in the ball and no team to play against, that would bring things to a head fairly quick, it has a good plus for Leinster teams too. they wouldnt have to go through the dublin game
Jesus f--king wept :mad:0 -
-
Advertisement
-
Well Dublin really is the equivalent of China at table tennis in comparison to the other counties.0
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement