The Leinster Championship is dead.

Girly Gal

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Scrap provincials make league home and away -

All Ireland A

Have a top 7 teams auto qualify based on league div 1 (AI QF)

Last div 1 and top div 2 play off to make AI QF

AI QF open draw knockout when have 8 teams - keeps it interesting varied teams

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All Ireland C

div 3 same similar system as above.

But have a top 7 teams auto qualify based on league div 3 plus play off winners (AI QF)


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All Ireland B

div 2 same similar system as above.

But have a top 7 teams auto qualify based on league div 3 plus play off winners (AI QF)

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All Ireland D


Div 4 7 auto qualify and play off losers


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Too radical? Reasons top 7 teams in country are a bit ahead of no 8.

Are Cavan and Tipp included as the top 7 teams? They probably wouldn't have been at the start of the year, yet found themselves in the last 4, ( Tipp might even make it to the final) despite some of these top 7 teams in their province, Kerry, Tryone, Donegal. It's really only Dublin that's miles ahead of everyone else. The other 6 in the top 7 are beatable on any given day as the current championship has proven. Take Dublin out of the championship and we would have an extremely competitive championship.The GAA needs to solve the Dublin conundrum; Dublin would probably need to be broken into 3 or 4 teams, but, that's unlikely to happen.

ArielAtom

Girly Gal wrote: »

Are Cavan and Tipp included as the top 7 teams? They probably wouldn't have been at the start of the year, yet found themselves in the last 4, ( Tipp might even make it to the final) despite some of these top 7 teams in their province, Kerry, Tryone, Donegal. It's really only Dublin that's miles ahead of everyone else. The other 6 in the top 7 are beatable on any given day as the current championship has proven. Take Dublin out of the championship and we would have an extremely competitive championship.The GAA needs to solve the Dublin conundrum; Dublin would probably need to be broken into 3 or 4 teams, but, that's unlikely to happen.

The hint is in the thread title.

RoyalCelt

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Leinster club? I am on about All Ireland club win's! Dublin have not won since 2015. Even then Boden were lucky to get there they beat Clontarf when a down and behind in Dublin club. Plus Portlaoise had them beaten in Leinster.

Dublin clubs two AI wins since 2009 is underperforming in my view.

Plus throw in the Mullinaughta, Rathnew wins in Leinster and questions should be asked. Is it the intercounty managers that are the issue?

The only viable solution is to pump even more money into Dublin clubs so they win the leinster/all Ireland club championship every year. The current situation is unacceptable.

jmayo

RoyalCelt wrote: »

The only viable solution is to pump even more money into Dublin clubs so they win the leinster/all Ireland club championship every year. The current situation is unacceptable.

I already mentioned numerous times how Dublin clubs have been in 11 Leinster finals since 2003 as opposed to 11 Leinster finals between 1970 and 2002.

Also everytime dominance of Dublin is brought up the first go to is Kilkenny dominance and then the great Kerry team.

Oh and the next is how the hurling teams are not doing any good.
Funny thing is they don't mention how far hurling has come over last 20 years.

Since 2002, Dublin hurlers have been in 10 of the Leinster u20/u21 finals and have won 4.
They were in 4 finals between 1964 and 2002.

Between 1964 and 2002 Dublin were in 9 Leinster minor finals winning 2, whereas since 2002 they have been in 11 Leinster minor finals winning 6.

Cuala won two Leinster club titles (and All Ireland club titles) and one runners up within the last ten years, and Ballyboden were twice runners up within the last 20 years.

Anyone notice a trend yet ?

And then lets look at the Ladies now going for 4 in a row having been in the last 6 finals.

Nah all the success of Dublin GAA is just down to a real special once in a lifetime bunch of lads. :rolleyes:

Scoundrel

This isnt a once in a generation team either just look at the facts 12 of the kerry 1978 AI final team started in 1982 just 6 of the Dublin 2015 team started yesterday it is a production line that is getting better not worse.

I genuinely don't want to see Dublin split into 2 or 4 as that is punishing Dublin GAA people for something that isn't their fault it's 100% GAA HQs fault but I'm honestly struggling to see any other option yesterday was a farce and the AI final will be a farce as well and so will the next 5 or 6 finals at least.

gormdubhgorm

Girly Gal wrote: »

Are Cavan and Tipp included as the top 7 teams? They probably wouldn't have been at the start of the year, yet found themselves in the last 4, ( Tipp might even make it to the final) despite some of these top 7 teams in their province, Kerry, Tryone, Donegal.

No

Dublin
Kerry
Donegal
Tyrone
Galway
Mayo
Monaghan

It's really only Dublin that's miles ahead of everyone else. The other 6 in the top 7 are beatable on any given day as the current championship has proven.

Not true Roscommon, Kildare and Meath struggle outside thier province. Not top 8 super 8.

Plus people ignored how this is skewed this 'championship' is by covid19 - Aussie lads remaining and no backdoor. Plus Dublin needed a rest and got it.

Take Dublin out of the championship and we would have an extremely competitive championship. The GAA needs to solve the Dublin conundrum; Dublin would probably need to be broken into 3 or 4 teams, but, that's unlikely to happen.

Championship is unfair structure should be scrapped. Spilt Dublin they will only become feeder teams for the 'main' team. No parish rule in Dublin. Plus how do finance it? Stadiums and so on who pays? Dublin prices on land etc

Amalgamations of other counties Kildare/Meath and Cavan/Monaghan are other options but there would be riots.

A proper league championship as I suggested is the way to go. Leinster is as Mickey Mouse as Munster - yet the two best teams in the country reside in each.

If teams play teams of fairly equal level that is what competition is. Antrim v Donegal, or Leitrim v Galway, or Waterford v Kerry, Dublin v Louth is madness. Should be div 1 playing div 1 or those who earn the right through a play off.

gormdubhgorm

Scoundrel wrote: »

This isnt a once in a generation team either just look at the facts 12 of the kerry 1978 AI final team started in 1982 just 6 of the Dublin 2015 team started yesterday it is a production line that is getting better not worse.

I genuinely don't want to see Dublin split into 2 or 4 as that is punishing Dublin GAA people for something that isn't their fault it's 100% GAA HQs fault but I'm honestly struggling to see any other option yesterday was a farce and the AI final will be a farce as well and so will the next 5 or 6 finals at least.

That will be one main Dublin team and a feeder team, or one main and three feeders . Fourth lads out of minor - third lads of u21 - second former Dub players for main Dubs teams mixed with Dubs Stars from the yearly club game.

If Dublin is spilt it will only make them stronger as all Dubs teams will defacto work together. Not as rivals but as partners.

In yesterday's game I predicted Cavan morale victory if -10 or less. Plus what do you expect when a relegated div 2 team has to face two top div 1 teams in succession?

Hoping the Dubs have an 'off day' like Donegal?

gormdubhgorm

Scoundrel wrote: »

This isnt a once in a generation team either just look at the facts 12 of the kerry 1978 AI final team started in 1982 just 6 of the Dublin 2015 team started yesterday it is a production line that is getting better not worse.

I genuinely don't want to see Dublin split into 2 or 4 as that is punishing Dublin GAA people for something that isn't their fault it's 100% GAA HQs fault but I'm honestly struggling to see any other option yesterday was a farce and the AI final will be a farce as well and so will the next 5 or 6 finals at least.

Parentage rule and championship restructure how is this not obvious???

StupidLikeAFox

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Parentage rule and championship restructure how is this not obvious???

So the first part of your solution involves counties picking players in Dublin who aren't good enough to make the Dublin team?

The second part is that the GAA should continue to subsidise a professional setup for Dublin but change around the competition layout, in the hope that somehow the other teams (who can't afford Dublin's professional setup) will magically become competitive

I'm not convinced tbh

Danno

The answer is to split the Provincial Championships from the All-Ireland Championships.

The likes of Leitrim, Clare, Tipperary etc... winning Sam is minute, however all have recently won their province. This is "their All-Ireland" so don't take that away.

To make the League relevant it should be only Div 1 and Div 2 in the All-Ireland open-draw competition (straight knock-out). Divs 3 & 4 go to the Tommy Murphy Cup.

gormdubhgorm

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

So the first part of your solution involves counties picking players in Dublin who aren't good enough to make the Dublin team?

The second part is that the GAA should continue to subsidise a professional setup for Dublin but change around the competition layout, in the hope that somehow the other teams (who can't afford Dublin's professional setup) will magically become competitive

I'm not convinced tbh

Giving them money will not make them competitive if they are not good enough.

The smaller counties are getting more money with the East Leinster Project to develop their GAA. youths.

Plus to say money go to the Dublin professional setup is a perpetuated misnomer.
It goes back to schools development. The Dubs just do it better and have better players.

It is just like the James Bond song by Carly Simon goes

"Nobody does it better
Makes me feel sad for the rest
Nobody does it half as good as you"

Meath are now a div 2 team struggling to be div 1 it is unfair they are in system which pits them against a div1 team. Kildare are div 2.

Mayo a consistent div 1 team over 20 years showed the gulf between div 1 and a div 3 today. Yet the system that is set up in the provinces expects teams to 'get lucky against superior opponents.

It is not fair don't blame the Dubs, blame an antiquated provincial system (skewed this year by covid 19).

Have A B and C and D AI's instead
Top 7 (from league rankings home and away league) QF open draw with one play off winner to join them. Much fairer.

Yet people seem shocked there are one sided games - when teams are just not the same standard.

It baffles me.

I have already listed some of the pros meath have/had behind the scenes such as Niall Ronan and Paul Colgan. But a silk purse cannot be made out a sows ear.

Someone like Wayne McCarthy for Dublin was never going to be the Gooch no matter how much money would have been thrown at youth development in primary schools.

gormdubhgorm

Danno wrote: »

The answer is to split the Provincial Championships from the All-Ireland Championships.

The likes of Leitrim, Clare, Tipperary etc... winning Sam is minute, however all have recently won their province. This is "their All-Ireland" so don't take that away.

To make the League relevant it should be only Div 1 and Div 2 in the All-Ireland open-draw competition (straight knock-out). Divs 3 & 4 go to the Tommy Murphy Cup.

Exactly, something like this needs to be done. But this thread seems to be in some sort of collective delusion that Kildare and Meath could be on the same level as Dublin/Tyrone/Donegal/Mayo. Even Monaghan and Galway are better than them. Yet, people think a magic wand will be waved.

The provincials are a dead duck. I think part of the problem is people are misty eyed for the days of Dermot Early or Glen Ryan, or Johnny Doyle, Tommy Dowd, Trevor Giles, Mick Lyons, Liam Hayes, Geraghty etc. Most of the fellas around now from those counties would would not be fit to lace those lads boots.

tobefrank321

This thread and the attempts to come up with an alternative solution which no-one can agree on demonstrates what we all know, that the Sam Maguire competition is essentially dead. A quick look at Dublin's supposed rivals will tell you that.
Meath - at least a 20 point worse team than Dublin I'm sorry to say.
Kerry - Cork are a coming team but they are division 2 standard yet can still put it up to Kerry. Numbers 1-15 Kerry are decent, but after that they can't compete with Dublin.
Donegal - they've done nothing at AI level since 2014
Tyrone - similar to Donegal, do little once out of Ulster
Mayo - today they were flattered. Tipp are division 3 but scored 3 goals and could have had 3 more. Dublin could put 5 goals past Mayo.

I don't blame Dublin, I blame the GAA. And nothing can be done about it. We're left to watch a farce play itself out year after year.

StupidLikeAFox

Yeah, giving money and walking away wouldn't be much good, the "Dublin model" needs to be replicated in other counties. Changing a competition structure won't do anything to improve weaker teams.

Dont know what the relevance of listing meaths s&c coach is. The fact that they have one doesn't take away from the fact that no county has any hope of matching Dublin off the pitch, which leads to nobody being able to match them on the pitch

And as for "don't blame the dubs", I am not blaming the dubs for anything. I'm merely pointing out that there is a huge imbalance in the allocation of resources, that needs to be addressed as a priority and maybe there might be some semblance of an even playing field in 5 or 10 years time

fullstop

Surprise, surprise. Pat Gilroy doesn’t think it’s an issue if Dublin get €270 per player while Donegal get €20 per player funding from the GAA, because Dublin are “weak between the canals” :pac:

Solomon Pleasant

fullstop wrote: »

Surprise, surprise. Pat Gilroy doesn’t think it’s an issue if Dublin get €270 per player while Donegal get €20 per player funding from the GAA, because Dublin are “weak between the canals” :pac:

Losing a lot of respect for Gilroy listening to the bollocks he’s spewing out on The Sunday Game

gormdubhgorm

tobefrank321 wrote: »

This thread and the attempts to come up with an alternative solution which no-one can agree on demonstrates what we all know, that the Sam Maguire competition is essentially dead. A quick look at their supposed rivals will tell you that.
Meath - at least a 20 point worse team than Dublin I'm sorry to say.
Kerry - Cork are a coming team but they are division 2 standard yet can still put it up to Kerry. Numbers 1-15 Kerry are decent, but after that they can't compete with Dublin.
Donegal - they've done nothing at AI level since 2014
Tyrone - similar to Donegal, do little once out of Ulster
Mayo - today they were flattered. Tipp are division 3 but scored 3 goals and could have had 3 more. Dublin could put 5 goals past Mayo.

I don't blame Dublin, I blame the GAA. And nothing can be done about it. We're left to watch a farce play itself out year after year.

Meath are not Dublin's rivals get that out of your now for a start. Meath were in div 2 for 13 years and are heading straight back down.

Cork are not Kerry's rivals either. Historically maybe practically no. Div 1 v div2/3

If you persist to play div3 and div 2 teams v div 1 you will likely get one sided games.

Expanded Leagues is the way forward in some form. Home and away . Cup aspect in the latter stages.

Mayo won a connacht title in 2013 by walloping London by a similar that they beat Tipp today. 5 goals scored by Mayo. How is that fair?

I just think of it this way if a foreigner who knew nothing about GAA came in and you told him the system, competition structure, relative strength of teams he/she would laugh. It is pure madness.

But GAA heads so stubborn and traditional they refuse to change. It is the year 2020 not the year 1990.

The GAA can change players no longer have to kiss the Bishop's ring and the world kept turning. When the Bishop stopped throwing in the ball the world keep turning.

tanko

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

Losing a lot of respect for Gilroy listening to the bollocks he’s spewing out on The Sunday Game

Just another gormless dub talking rubbish.

fullstop

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

Losing a lot of respect for Gilroy listening to the bollocks he’s spewing out on The Sunday Game

Talking absolute tosh here. We haven’t won the battle in Dublin yet, foreigners don’t play, give us more money!

Make Cluxton take the kickout with his right foot...Jesus wept :rolleyes:

“D’ya know what I mean”.

tobefrank321

fullstop wrote: »

Surprise, surprise. Pat Gilroy doesn’t think it’s an issue if Dublin get €270 per player while Donegal get €20 per player funding from the GAA, because Dublin are “weak between the canals” :pac:

Watching that now - he's a bullsh*tter. He actually played the "we have better volunteers line". And deflects everything away from funding. And shouts down everyone. Laughable.

There's no saving this mess.

bennyl10

fullstop wrote: »

Surprise, surprise. Pat Gilroy doesn’t think it’s an issue if Dublin get €270 per player while Donegal get €20 per player funding from the GAA, because Dublin are “weak between the canals” :pac:

Can't wait to see that defended here..

Sure its necessary Dublin need it all etc, etc

tobefrank321

"Dublin don't have enough funding".

FFS!

Unfortunately Andy McEntee is weak.

Fann Linn

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Watching that now - he's a bullsh*tter. He actually played the "we have better volunteers line". And deflects everything away from funding. And shouts down everyone. Laughable.

There's no saving this mess.

He also played the line that Dublin offered to assist all the other Leinster counties and no one took up the offer.

gormdubhgorm

tanko wrote: »

Just another gormless dub talking rubbish.

Ok you have free reign with the GAA what would you do?

Competition restructure or is your idea just to spilt the Dubs because that would be worse for other counties in the long run. They would work as a feeder county to the 'main county' and it would make Dublin even stronger while making even more of a joke of Leinster.

Amalgamation you proabably don't want another poster I think it was the OP who said he would rather be sh!te then see Meath and Kildare merge.


Trying to fit teams of large varying standards. in the same antiquated province is a recipe for disaster. It must be great fun for Wicklow, Wexford and Louth?

When are they going to win a Leinster soon?
Remove Dublin there is the answer some say!

But even if Dublin was removed (to where I don't know) Mars maybe - what chance have those counties. Plus even if Meath/Kildare created their own duuopoly with no Dublin their standard will still be sh!te or mediorce at best.

Mayo,Kerry, Donegal Tyrone would still kill Meath and Kildare when they get out of their Leinster bubble. Like Dublin were in the mid 00's They continually flopped outside Leinster - whether by winning Leinster or the qualifier route.

bennyl10

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ok you have free reign with the GAA what would you do?

Competition restructure or is your idea just to spilt the Dubs because that would be worse for other counties in the long run. They would work as a feeder county to the 'main county' and it would make Dublin even stronger while making even more of a joke of Leinster.

Amalgamation you proabably don't want another poster I think it was the OP who said he would rather be sh!te then see Meath and Kildare merge.


Trying to fit teams of large varying standards. in the same antiquated province is a recipe for disaster. It must be great fun for Wicklow, Wexford and Louth?

When are they going to win a Leinster soon?
Remove Dublin there is the answer some say!

But even if Dublin was removed (to where I don't know) Mars maybe - what chance have those counties. Plus even if Meath/Kildare created their own duuopoly with no Dublin their standard will still be sh!te or mediorce at best.

Mayo,Kerry, Donegal Tyrone would still kill Meath and Kildare when they get out of their Leinster bubble. Like Dublin were in the mid 00's They continually flopped outside Leinster - whether by winning Leinster or the qualifier route.

Split the central funding pot on an equal level among 32 counties.

Equal amonunts per player if needs be


ON relocation, there was no issue moving Galway for hurling. Same can be done for football

corny

That was a good debate wasn't it!

tobefrank321

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Meath are not Dublin's rivals get that out of your now for a start. Meath were in div 2 for 13 years and are heading straight back down.

Cork are not Kerry's rivals either. Historically maybe practically no. Div 1 v div2/3

If you persist to play div3 and div 2 teams v div 1 you will likely get one sided games.

Expanded Leagues is the way forward in some form. Home and away . Cup aspect in the latter stages.

Mayo won a connacht title in 2013 by walloping London by a similar that they beat Tipp today. 5 goals scored by Mayo. How is that fair?

I just think of it this way if a foreigner who knew nothing about GAA came in and you told him the system, competition structure, relative strength of teams he/she would laugh. It is pure madness.

But GAA heads so stubborn and traditional they refuse to change. It is the year 2020 not the year 1990.

The GAA can change players no longer have to kiss the Bishop's ring and the world kept turning. When the Bishop stopped throwing in the ball the world keep turning.

I never said Cork were Dublins rivals - read it again carefully - i said Kerry were beaten by Cork a division 3 team. Kerry are a long way off Dublin.

Meath are Dublins nearest rival in Leinster. As a division 1 team they'd be part of your revised championship focusing on division 1 teams. They are 20 points worse than Dublin. So you are right they aren't rivals in a sense.
Neither are Donegal, Cavan or Tyrone or Mayo. That's obvious.
Pretending 6 or 7 other counties can challenge Dublin is just laughable.

yop

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ok you have free reign with the GAA what would you do?

Competition restructure or is your idea just to spilt the Dubs because that would be worse for other counties in the long run. They would work as a feeder county to the 'main county' and it would make Dublin even stronger while making even more of a joke of Leinster.

Amalgamation you proabably don't want another poster I think it was the OP who said he would rather be sh!te then see Meath and Kildare merge.


Trying to fit teams of large varying standards. in the same antiquated province is a recipe for disaster. It must be great fun for Wicklow, Wexford and Louth?

When are they going to win a Leinster soon?
Remove Dublin there is the answer some say!

But even if Dublin was removed (to where I don't know) Mars maybe - what chance have those counties. Plus even if Meath/Kildare created their own duuopoly with no Dublin their standard will still be sh!te or mediorce at best.

Mayo,Kerry, Donegal Tyrone would still kill Meath and Kildare when they get out of their Leinster bubble. Like Dublin were in the mid 00's They continually flopped outside Leinster - whether by winning Leinster or the qualifier route.

I've no idea if they are true facts. But are Dublin getting 10 times more money per player than say Donegal?
Do Dublin have 5 times the number of coaches than other counties? Of so why? Do they proved coaches with gear or training etc?

Genuine questions. Not here to troll. Prefer to have my 2 cans and watch the highlights.

yop

corny wrote: »

That was a good debate wasn't it!

It was cringy.

Fann Linn

bennyl10 wrote: »

Split the central funding pot on an equal level among 32 counties.

Equal amonunts per player if needs be


ON relocation, there was no issue moving Galway for hurling. Same can be done for football

And you'll have Kildare or Meath still taking the hammering at semi final stage like this weekend. Although that's probably acceptable as they'll have a Leinster final win under their belts.