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Willie Frazer has died

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    #242
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    So I'm lost again. Your logic is this:

    Frazer is not in UVF - police don't think he is either - police don't want him to have weapon as he doesn't need it - police make up imaginary UVF connections so they don't have to give him weapon - police give him pretend UVF funeral??

    I do not know what you are on about. The police never suspected or claimed he was in the uvf. And I do not know what sort of funeral he will have but I doubt it will have a paramilitary send-off, given he was not a paramilitary.

    In other news, many people from very diverse backgrounds in these islands have paid tribute to Frazer. For example,Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney expressed his sincere sympathies to Mr Frazer's family and acknowledged "his work of many years advocating for victims of the Troubles in Northern Ireland".


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    #243
    An Claidheamh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Think you are a bit confused there. There are still many protestant churches there eg Church of England etc etc Do not believe everything an Phoblocht told you.;)

    It's 'An Phoblacht'

    And what I meant was the British establishment pretends they've always been 'secular' despite clearly having a state religion, and pretending they don't have deep Protestant (sectarian) roots..... but try explaining that to someone educated by their school system....


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    #244
    An Claidheamh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    janfebmar wrote: »

    In other news, many people from very diverse backgrounds in these islands have paid tribute to Frazer. For example,Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney expressed his sincere sympathies to Mr Frazer's family and acknowledged "his work of many years advocating for victims of the Troubles in Northern Ireland".

    You mean your Tánaiste

    I'm sure he meant it Mary/Billy

    What did Bill Clinton say?


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    #245
    careless sherpa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 373 ✭✭careless sherpa


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Is he definitely dead ?
    Cause I am going to miss his brand of madness.

    Also ,do any of youse think he might come back as a ghost.

    #flegs are us.

    Will be a few flags at the funeral I would guess. Celebrity attendance by the woman that was screaming no surrender in through the window of belfast city hall


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    #246
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Fraser was a victim of paramilitaries. There is no proof he was a member of one, and the police did not suspect him to be a member of one. And I doubt he will have a paramilitary send off or funeral either.

    And what about you. One thread you support paramilitaries and the next you say you don't.


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    #247
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,121 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Frazer hadn't the temperament to be in any serious paramilitary group. He'd have been trumpeting what he did and implicating all and sundry.
    He was an unstable character who did manage to enflame the situation and no doubt motivated many to violence. In latter years he became a comedic figure and a parody of the worst type of Unionist/ Loyalist


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    #248
    Pedro K
    Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    janfebmar wrote: »
    A man is innocent until proven guilty.

    You will, of course, apply the same logic to the likes of Gerry Adams, then, yes?


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    #249
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,024 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Never a member. Never found guilty of any crime, or suspected of it.


    Really?



    VICTIMS’ campaigner Willie Frazer has expressed outrage after he was stopped and searched by police in south Armagh under anti-terror laws.


    Mr Frazer said seven members of the PSNI’s tactical support group dressed in boiler suits surrounded his car “in frightening circumstances” near Kingsmills. He said he will be reporting the incident to his solicitor and lodging a complaint with the Police Ombudsman.
    https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/anti-terror-police-search-willie-frazer-1-4394998

    Mr Frazer, 53, was protesting at being charged under legislation that, he claims, was brought in to deal with militant Islamic preachers.
    He faces charges linked to union flag demonstrations in January.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-24294969



    Frazer was charged with three counts of participating in unnotified public processions and obstruction of traffic in a public place.[59][60] Frazer was subsequently released on bail. On 16 July 2013, he was rearrested for alleged breach of bail conditions.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-23327528


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    #250
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,091 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    I certainly won’t be mourning his death


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    #251
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Shelob1 wrote: »
    I am a Unionist and I will be attending. It is near Markethill. You accuse others of ruining the thread but you have been as disrespectful as anyone in this thread.

    Man did you get there in the end? It wasn't in Markerthill after all, it was in Bessbrook. I hope you weren't waiting outside the wrong church.

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/final-farewell-as-victims-campaigner-willie-frazer-is-laid-to-rest-38269985.html


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    #252
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    And what about you. One thread you support paramilitaries and the next you say you don't.

    You must be thinking of someone else, I always condemned the paramilitaries on both sides. Get your facts right before you accuse anyone.


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    #253
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    You must be thinking of someone else, I always condemned the paramilitaries on both sides. Get your facts right before you accuse anyone.

    Yea right ;).


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    #254
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    janfebmar wrote: »
    You must be thinking of someone else, I always condemned the paramilitaries on both sides. Get your facts right before you accuse anyone.

    Strange, then, that you can quote endless statistics in favour of Unionists, yet, I can't recall you posting a single statistic in favour of Nationalists - and when those statistics are presented to you, you have been known not to reply....


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    #255
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Strange, then, that you can quote endless statistics in favour of Unionists, yet, I can't recall you posting a single statistic in favour of Nationalists - and when those statistics are presented to you, you have been known not to reply....

    Quoting the statistic of people killed on both sides by paramilitries is not the same as "posting in favour of unionists", as you claim. I never voted for a unionist party in my life. And what statistic "in favour of nationalists" are you claiming I did not reply to? Maybe I agreed and there was no need to reply? Depends on what statistic you are on about?


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    #256
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Quoting the statistic of people killed on both sides by paramilitries is not the same as "posting in favour of unionists", as you claim. I never voted for a unionist party in my life. And what statistic "in favour of nationalists" are you claiming I did not reply to? Maybe I agreed and there was no need to reply? Depends on what statistic you are on about?

    Mate your fooling noone with your bluster


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    #257
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,024 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    janfebmar wrote: »
    You must be thinking of someone else, I always condemned the paramilitaries on both sides. Get your facts right before you accuse anyone.




    But willy didn't. He said the UVF should never have been jailed and that he had "a lot of time" for billy wright. What do you think of that?


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    #258
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Odhinn wrote: »
    But willy didn't. He said the UVF should never have been jailed and that he had "a lot of time" for billy wright. What do you think of that?

    I do not know everything he did say or did not say in his life. I clearly would not agree with him on certain things, just as I would not agree with Sinn Fein supporters who would say the IRA should not have been jailed, or those who would have a "lot of time" for Republican activists.


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    #259
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I do not know everything he did say or did not say in his life. I clearly would not agree with him on certain things, just as I would not agree with Sinn Fein supporters who would say the IRA should not have been jailed, or those who would have a "lot of time" for Republican activists.

    That's not what you said previously J. It's getting hard to keep track.


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    #260
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    That's not what you said previously J. It's getting hard to keep track.

    Of course it is consistent with anything I said previously. If not, point out the inconsistency. So what if Willie Frazor's attitude to Loyalist paramilitaries may have been the same as a typical Sinn Fein voters attitude to the pIRA. Frazer was not a member of any paramilitary group, did not commit any paramilitary crime, did not have a paramilitary funeral. Yes he was a spokesperson for victims of Republican violence, but can you blame him, when 6 close members of his family were murdered, and when he and many other victims felt the thousands of attacks by Republicans along the border was ethnic cleansing?

    I can see both sides of the argument in N Ireland.


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    #261
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Yes he was a spokesperson for victims of Republican violence, but can you blame him,

    Why would he not speak out for catholics killed by republicans?


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    #262
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Why would he not speak out for catholics killed by republicans?

    He condemned the Republican murder of Catholics as well as the Republican murder of protestants, although he felt the Republic hatred in border counties was targeted at protestants. For example at Kingsmill, the Republican attackers identified the Catholic on the bus, told him to run away, and murdered 10 innocent protestants.


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    #263
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    He condemned the Republican murder of Catholics as well as the Republican murder of protestants.

    Hmm....except he wouldnt represent or assist catholic familes of people killed by republicans who asked for help


    How is that?


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    #264
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Hmm....except he wouldnt represent or assist catholic familes of people killed by republicans who asked for help
    Wrong. He highlighted victims of Republican violence, he was not a charity to help all victims of violence everywhere. He felt the vast majority of Republican violence in the border counties was directed at bombing protestant businesses, killing Protestants etc . In the Kingsmill atrocity for example, he coyld not assist catholic families there, because the Republicans identified the protestants on the bus and only shot them because they were protestant.


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    #265
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Wrong. He highlighted victims of Republican violence, he was not a charity to help all victims of violence everywhere.

    Except he is a charity??...his organisation was set up to assit.relatives of innocent people killed by republicans (and was tax payer funded)


    Why would he not help catholic familes of innocent people killed by republicans??


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    #266
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Except he is a charity??...his organisation was set up to assit.relatives of innocent people killed by republicans (and was tax payer funded)


    Why would he not help catholic familes of innocent people killed by republicans??

    He helped catholic families of public servants in N.I. killed by Republicans.


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    #267
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    He helped catholic families of public servants in N.I. killed by Republicans.

    Hmm....except he didnt help catholic families of innocent people killed??


    Which he purported to represent?

    Why not?


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    #268
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Hmm....except he didnt help catholic families of innocent people killed??


    Which he purported to represent?

    Why not?

    I'd give up Blaaz. The poster's picture appears in the dictionary alongside the word inconsistent. They've changed gender, political views and support for paramilitary groups multiple times.


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    #269
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Hmm....except he didnt help catholic families of innocent people
    He said himself he did, but most victims of what was seen as the ethnic cleansing policy by Republicans along the border were protestants.


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    #270
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,121 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    He certainly seemed to have no problems 'helping himself'

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/06/19/news/funding-withdrawn-from-charity-linked-to-willie-frazer-1644977/
    The Irish News understands that concerns were raised with VSS in relation to public comments made by Mr Frazer by relatives of people killed during the Troubles.

    He has made headlines in recent years over a series of controversial claims, often made on social media.

    FRPU has received more than £542,000 in funding from VSS since 2015.

    A spokeswoman for the organisation last night confirmed that funding has been stopped.

    “VSS recently initiated a review of the corporate governance of Families Research and Policy Unit that identified serious issues with regards to safeguarding, duty of care, committee governance and financial management,” she said.

    “As a result of the investigation, we had no option but to withdraw funding support.”

    and not just once but twice:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-15644147
    Willie Frazer's Fair is being asked to give back more than £350,000.

    European peace funds are dispersed by the Special EU Programmes body.

    It has told members of the Finance Committee at Stormont that the two groups - which were set up to support the victims of republican violence - are due to be pursued for the return of grants.

    Fair was founded by Mr Frazer 13 years ago.

    Funding from the Office of the First and Deputy First Minister (OFMDFM) has been cut while it has also been told to pay the EU back more than £350,000.

    Mr Frazer has denied misspending cash and called the funding cut "political".


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    #271
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    He said himself he did,.
    Where did he say this?


    I known families he didnt help.anyway


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