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Willie Frazer has died

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    And what about you. One thread you support paramilitaries and the next you say you don't.

    You must be thinking of someone else, I always condemned the paramilitaries on both sides. Get your facts right before you accuse anyone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    You must be thinking of someone else, I always condemned the paramilitaries on both sides. Get your facts right before you accuse anyone.

    Yea right ;).


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    janfebmar wrote: »
    You must be thinking of someone else, I always condemned the paramilitaries on both sides. Get your facts right before you accuse anyone.

    Strange, then, that you can quote endless statistics in favour of Unionists, yet, I can't recall you posting a single statistic in favour of Nationalists - and when those statistics are presented to you, you have been known not to reply....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Strange, then, that you can quote endless statistics in favour of Unionists, yet, I can't recall you posting a single statistic in favour of Nationalists - and when those statistics are presented to you, you have been known not to reply....

    Quoting the statistic of people killed on both sides by paramilitries is not the same as "posting in favour of unionists", as you claim. I never voted for a unionist party in my life. And what statistic "in favour of nationalists" are you claiming I did not reply to? Maybe I agreed and there was no need to reply? Depends on what statistic you are on about?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Quoting the statistic of people killed on both sides by paramilitries is not the same as "posting in favour of unionists", as you claim. I never voted for a unionist party in my life. And what statistic "in favour of nationalists" are you claiming I did not reply to? Maybe I agreed and there was no need to reply? Depends on what statistic you are on about?

    Mate your fooling noone with your bluster


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    janfebmar wrote: »
    You must be thinking of someone else, I always condemned the paramilitaries on both sides. Get your facts right before you accuse anyone.




    But willy didn't. He said the UVF should never have been jailed and that he had "a lot of time" for billy wright. What do you think of that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Odhinn wrote: »
    But willy didn't. He said the UVF should never have been jailed and that he had "a lot of time" for billy wright. What do you think of that?

    I do not know everything he did say or did not say in his life. I clearly would not agree with him on certain things, just as I would not agree with Sinn Fein supporters who would say the IRA should not have been jailed, or those who would have a "lot of time" for Republican activists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I do not know everything he did say or did not say in his life. I clearly would not agree with him on certain things, just as I would not agree with Sinn Fein supporters who would say the IRA should not have been jailed, or those who would have a "lot of time" for Republican activists.

    That's not what you said previously J. It's getting hard to keep track.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    That's not what you said previously J. It's getting hard to keep track.

    Of course it is consistent with anything I said previously. If not, point out the inconsistency. So what if Willie Frazor's attitude to Loyalist paramilitaries may have been the same as a typical Sinn Fein voters attitude to the pIRA. Frazer was not a member of any paramilitary group, did not commit any paramilitary crime, did not have a paramilitary funeral. Yes he was a spokesperson for victims of Republican violence, but can you blame him, when 6 close members of his family were murdered, and when he and many other victims felt the thousands of attacks by Republicans along the border was ethnic cleansing?

    I can see both sides of the argument in N Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Yes he was a spokesperson for victims of Republican violence, but can you blame him,

    Why would he not speak out for catholics killed by republicans?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Why would he not speak out for catholics killed by republicans?

    He condemned the Republican murder of Catholics as well as the Republican murder of protestants, although he felt the Republic hatred in border counties was targeted at protestants. For example at Kingsmill, the Republican attackers identified the Catholic on the bus, told him to run away, and murdered 10 innocent protestants.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    He condemned the Republican murder of Catholics as well as the Republican murder of protestants.

    Hmm....except he wouldnt represent or assist catholic familes of people killed by republicans who asked for help


    How is that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Hmm....except he wouldnt represent or assist catholic familes of people killed by republicans who asked for help
    Wrong. He highlighted victims of Republican violence, he was not a charity to help all victims of violence everywhere. He felt the vast majority of Republican violence in the border counties was directed at bombing protestant businesses, killing Protestants etc . In the Kingsmill atrocity for example, he coyld not assist catholic families there, because the Republicans identified the protestants on the bus and only shot them because they were protestant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Wrong. He highlighted victims of Republican violence, he was not a charity to help all victims of violence everywhere.

    Except he is a charity??...his organisation was set up to assit.relatives of innocent people killed by republicans (and was tax payer funded)


    Why would he not help catholic familes of innocent people killed by republicans??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Except he is a charity??...his organisation was set up to assit.relatives of innocent people killed by republicans (and was tax payer funded)


    Why would he not help catholic familes of innocent people killed by republicans??

    He helped catholic families of public servants in N.I. killed by Republicans.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    He helped catholic families of public servants in N.I. killed by Republicans.

    Hmm....except he didnt help catholic families of innocent people killed??


    Which he purported to represent?

    Why not?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Hmm....except he didnt help catholic families of innocent people killed??


    Which he purported to represent?

    Why not?

    I'd give up Blaaz. The poster's picture appears in the dictionary alongside the word inconsistent. They've changed gender, political views and support for paramilitary groups multiple times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Hmm....except he didnt help catholic families of innocent people
    He said himself he did, but most victims of what was seen as the ethnic cleansing policy by Republicans along the border were protestants.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    He certainly seemed to have no problems 'helping himself'

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/06/19/news/funding-withdrawn-from-charity-linked-to-willie-frazer-1644977/
    The Irish News understands that concerns were raised with VSS in relation to public comments made by Mr Frazer by relatives of people killed during the Troubles.

    He has made headlines in recent years over a series of controversial claims, often made on social media.

    FRPU has received more than £542,000 in funding from VSS since 2015.

    A spokeswoman for the organisation last night confirmed that funding has been stopped.

    “VSS recently initiated a review of the corporate governance of Families Research and Policy Unit that identified serious issues with regards to safeguarding, duty of care, committee governance and financial management,” she said.

    “As a result of the investigation, we had no option but to withdraw funding support.”

    and not just once but twice:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-15644147
    Willie Frazer's Fair is being asked to give back more than £350,000.

    European peace funds are dispersed by the Special EU Programmes body.

    It has told members of the Finance Committee at Stormont that the two groups - which were set up to support the victims of republican violence - are due to be pursued for the return of grants.

    Fair was founded by Mr Frazer 13 years ago.

    Funding from the Office of the First and Deputy First Minister (OFMDFM) has been cut while it has also been told to pay the EU back more than £350,000.

    Mr Frazer has denied misspending cash and called the funding cut "political".


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    He said himself he did,.
    Where did he say this?


    I known families he didnt help.anyway


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    janfebmar wrote: »
    He helped catholic families of public servants in N.I. killed by Republicans.
    "Republicans"??
    So called you mean.
    That shower hadnt a Republican bone in their bodies


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Pedro K



    Ah yeah, but he was never convicted of anything, so it's all good, according to janfebmar. You're wasting your time with that poster. They're so blinded by their sectarianism that they're almost a parody of themself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dd973


    Don't know where all the Teutonic delusions of Ulster Protestants/Unionists come from, prior to The Reformation they were all Catholic and prior to that they were all kilt-wearing haggis chasing Gaelgeoirs.

    They have this superiority complex where they perceive themselves as Nordic and white European people whom are one Christian sect removed are perceived as Bangladeshi's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Edgware wrote: »
    "Republicans"??
    So called you mean.
    That shower hadnt a Republican bone in their bodies

    But they claimed to have, and their supporters thought and think they had.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    But they claimed to have, and their supporters thought and think they had.

    Could you rephrase that so it makes sense in the King's English?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Edgware wrote: »
    "Republicans"??
    So called you mean.
    That shower hadnt a Republican bone in their bodies

    That shower as you called them, claimed to be Republicans. Their supporters thought that were Republicans, back in the day. Many if not all of their supporters still think they were Republicans, and not only that but great lads.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    That shower as you called them, claimed to be Republicans. Their supporters thought that were Republicans, back in the day. Many if not all of their supporters still think they were Republicans, and not only that but great lads.

    My head hurts J. What do you mean by this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Steddyeddy, why not ask Edgeware what he meant when he was talking about Republican extremists who killed:
    Edgware wrote: »
    "Republicans"??
    So called you mean.
    That shower hadnt a Republican bone in their bodies

    I would guess he meant true Republicans did not bomb and shoot and terrorise people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 373 ✭✭careless sherpa


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Steddyeddy, why not ask Edgeware what he meant when he was talking about Republican extremists who killed:

    I would guess he meant true Republicans did not bomb and shoot and terrorise people.

    You mean pacifists not republicans


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,037 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    It hasn't gone away you know.... obviously.

    Honestly I really wish people would move on. It is scary to see a lot of the posts on this.

    It is all just under the surface waiting to erupt from what I can see.

    Brexit and a hard border would be better than this.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It hasn't gone away you know.... obviously.

    Honestly I really wish people would move on. It is scary to see a lot of the posts on this.

    It is all just under the surface waiting to erupt from what I can see.

    Brexit and a hard border would be better than this.

    Yes, boards.ie threads are the worst.

    That or spilling tea or catching Aids.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    In fairness I think it would be a lot scarier of posters were genuinely looking up to the man. There's no one here who seriously admires the man. One or two posters who just want to annoy people don't fall into that category.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    RIP. One of the best comedians this island has ever produced. He always had new material.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    There's no one here who seriously admires the man.

    Every man man his faults. However you cannot take away for his bravery. He was fearless in his approach and some people didn’t either like or appreciate that - but they had not lived the experience that he had, growing up in South Armagh, with 6 of his close family murdered, countless friends murdered and intimidated etc. That would have a big effect on anyone. As a spokesperson for another victims group said of Frazer "Yes he had flaws but so too does every one of us" .

    Even Simon Coveney expressed his sincere sympathies to Mr Frazer's family and acknowledged "his work of many years advocating for victims of the Troubles in Northern Ireland". Would our Tanaiste have said that if he did not admire the man?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭simongurnick


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Every man man his faults. However you cannot take away for his bravery. He was fearless in his approach and some people didn’t either like or appreciate that - but they had not lived the experience that he had, growing up in South Armagh, with 6 of his close family murdered, countless friends murdered and intimidated etc. That would have a big effect on anyone. As a spokesperson for another victims group said of Frazer "Yes he had flaws but so too does every one of us" .

    Even Simon Coveney expressed his sincere sympathies to Mr Frazer's family and acknowledged "his work of many years advocating for victims of the Troubles in Northern Ireland". Would our Tanaiste have said that if he did not admire the man?

    I couldn't give a ****e how many of his family got killed. Anyone that organises a loyalist march down the centee of dublin is a ****e disturber in the highest degree.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Every man man his faults. However you cannot take away for his bravery. He was fearless in his approach and some people didn’t either like or appreciate that - but they had not lived the experience that he had, growing up in South Armagh, with 6 of his close family murdered, countless friends murdered and intimidated etc. That would have a big effect on anyone. As a spokesperson for another victims group said of Frazer "Yes he had flaws but so too does every one of us" .

    Willie was a deluded bumbling idiot, a real life version of an online troll. It's ironic you have such admiration towards him.
    Even Simon Coveney expressed his sincere sympathies to Mr Frazer's family and acknowledged "his work of many years advocating for victims of the Troubles in Northern Ireland". Would our Tanaiste have said that if he did not admire the man?

    He said similar about Martin McGuinness, he even attended his (McGuinness) funeral.

    Penny dropped yet Mary?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,333 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    I couldn't give a ****e how many of his family got killed.
    Anyone that organises a loyalist march down the centee of dublin is a ****e disturber in the highest degree.

    "LOVE ULSTER LEADER and victims campaigner Willie Frazer has died of cancer aged 58. Frazer was a long-time campaigner for victims of republican violence during The Troubles.

    He was a lead organiser of the Love Ulster campaign, which in 2006 had to abandon a march in Dublin due to serious violence (by those who opposed the march)"


    The march in Dublin was sanctioned by Dublin City council, it also got the green light from the Irish authorities & the Gardai.

    The reason the march was accommodated in the 1st place was in part to show that our Capital city was a tolerant, open, and fully inclusive city (Like London).

    The violence & rioting against the Dublin march was obviously planned and orchestrated by Republican sympathisers, probably the very type of people who would have supported IRA/Republican violence during the Troubles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    "LOVE ULSTER LEADER and victims campaigner Willie Frazer has died of cancer aged 58. Frazer was a long-time campaigner for victims of republican violence during The Troubles.

    He was a lead organiser of the Love Ulster campaign, which in 2006 had to abandon a march in Dublin due to serious violence (by those who opposed the march)"


    The march in Dublin was sanctioned by Dublin City council, it also got the green light from the Irish authorities & the Gardai.

    The reason the march was organised in the 1st place was in part to show that our Capital city was a modern and fully accommodating city (Like London).

    Permission for the march was also to show that Dublin was not hostile towards Unionist remembrance, but was open and modern enough to accommodate a Loyalist march!

    The violence & rioting against the Dublin march was obviously planned and orchestrated by Republican sympathisers, probably the very type of people who would have supported IRA/Republican violence during the Troubles.

    What nonsense, that's like claiming the reason the Brexit party was established, was to show to the world what a tolerant accomodating bunch the European parliament is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    I couldn't give a ****e how many of his family got killed.

    Because of people like you, and those on this thread who would condone the 6 members of his family and others being murdered, it is safe to say there will not be a united Ireland for another generation or two at least.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,333 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    What nonsense, that's like claiming the reason the Brexit party was established, was to show to the world what a tolerant accomodating bunch the European parliament is.

    Thanks, it was badly worded
    Fixed.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Willie was a deluded bumbling idiot, a real life version of an online troll. It's ironic you have such admiration towards him.


    He said similar about Martin McGuinness, he even attended his (McGuinness) funeral.

    Penny dropped yet Mary?

    The penny has indeed dropped with Janfebmar, she now believes that people who were not found guilty of anything were just innocent victims and are to be admired and anything they say has to be seen in the light of that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    The penny has indeed dropped with Janfebmar, she now believes that people who were not found guilty of anything were just innocent victims and are to be admired and anything they say has to be seen in the light of that.

    Added kudos if Coveney expressed sympathies on your passing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    The penny has indeed dropped with Janfebmar, she now believes that people who were not found guilty of anything were just innocent victims and are to be admired and anything they say has to be seen in the light of that.

    Naw, the reason W Frazer was admired was because of his bravery in the face of intimidation and despite attacks from Republicans, he spoke out on behalf of the many victims of Republican violence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Naw, the reason W Frazer was admired was because of his bravery in the face of intimidation and despite attacks from Republicans, he spoke out on behalf of the many victims of Republican violence.

    The reason McGuinness was admired (by many many more btw) was because of his bravery in the face of intimidation and despite attacks from the British and Loyalists, he spoke out on behalf of the many victims of British and Loyalist violence without bigoted bitterness and kooky sensationalist conspiracy theories.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    The reason McGuinness was admired (by many many more btw) was because of his bravery in the face of intimidation and despite attacks from the British and Loyalists, he spoke out on behalf of the many victims of British and Loyalist violence without bigoted bitterness and kooky sensationalist conspiracy theories.

    Whataboutery. But seeing as you are indulging in whataboutery and bringing Mcguinness in to it, perhaps you could clarify which person lost 6 members of his close family in different attacks, and which person was a member of a paramilitary organisation back in the day?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Whataboutery. But seeing as you are indulging in whataboutery and bringing Mcguinness in to it, perhaps you could clarify which person lost 6 members of his close family in different attacks, and which person was a member of a paramilitary organisation back in the day?

    McGuinness was and was lauded and admired by all sides on his death.

    Loads of people lost family members and didn't turn into comedy bigots, effectively barred from being given funding on several occasions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    McGuinness was and was lauded and admired by all sides on his death.

    Loads of people lost family members and didn't turn into comedy bigots, effectively barred from being given funding on several occasions.

    You did not answer the 2 questions. Try again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    You did not answer the 2 questions. Try again.

    Willie lost 6 members of his family in the war/conflict they were combatants in. Many many lost family that were wholly innocent and didn't turn into the rabid bigot Willie was.

    Martin McGuinness was a member of the IRA.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    The reason McGuinness was admired (by many many more btw) was because of his bravery in the face of intimidation and despite attacks from the British and Loyalists, he spoke out on behalf of the many victims of British and Loyalist violence without bigoted bitterness and kooky sensationalist conspiracy theories.

    The family and friends of his fellow Derryman, Patsy Gillespie, didnt admire him. You can revise history as much as you want but McGuinness was still head of a sectarian murder gang. Him and his fellow Chuckle Brother bigot, Paisley, were well matched


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Edgware wrote: »
    The family and friends of his fellow Derryman, Patsy Gillespie, didnt admire him. You can revise history as much as you want but McGuinness was still head of a sectarian murder gang. Him and his fellow Chuckle Brother bigot, Paisley, were well matched

    Which is the point.
    Just because a politician for diplomatic reasons lauds somebody on their death means little.

    Next thing you'll be telling us is that Janfebmar applies her reasoning of Frazer to McGuinness and lauds them both equally. :):)


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