Breastfeeding Mom in restaurant stare off...

lazygal · 08-12-2015 8:34pm

Hammer89 wrote: »

Not unless she planned on doing it naked.

Why? Feeding a child is feeding a child, surely? As an aside, skin to skin contact is extremely helpful for newborns.

I am so happy my children see breastfeeding as a normal thing not even worthy of comment.

lazygal · 08-12-2015 8:37pm

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Pretty much every woman I've been around who's breastfed did so without making a song and a dance and a feminist statement. It's natural, it's good for the baby, this business of semi smothering the child as its being fed is unfair as is expecting a small baby to be fed in a bathroom.
However, show a little bit of decorum for your surroundings. It can be absolutely done discreetly without impacting your or your babies comfort. Why not make an effort to make everyone feel comfortable within reason?

What do you mean by decorum? How, exactly, should a woman who is breastfeeding in a different manner to someone who is bottle feeding?

greenorchard · 08-12-2015 8:43pm

Hammer89 wrote: »

I've had my cousin whip her tit out in my living room before and it made me extremely uncomfortable. I've got no problems with the act itself, but given that it was just the three of us in a small enough room, she could've asked if it would be okay.

What would you have said if she'd asked if it was ok? I've never & would never ask for someone's permission to breastfeed in front of them.

seamus · 08-12-2015 8:46pm

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I was never breastfed, well not as a kid anyway. My Ma tells me it wasn't the done thing in those days.

Breastfeeding was considered unseemly for the aristocracy. That was "common" behaviour which you hired a wet nurse for. When powdered milk and formula became a thing, it was strongly marketed on a background of snobbery and, "be like the rich ladies, this is the next best thing to a wet nurse".

To a certain extent it was also considered a triumph of modern man - several companies produced "scientific" studies proving that babies on formula did just as well as on the breast. Previously, babies who weren't breastfed tended to be small and sickly. This new technology was man beating nature and making life easier.

It also helped the religious conservative narrative to not have women whipping boobs out all over the place and inflaming the passions of poor powerless men.

Ironically it was in the wealthier homes that breastfeeding made a resurgence as many thought that using formula was "common" and less motherly.

Surely there have been studies of adults who were and were not? Would be an interesting read.

Afaik, the vast bulk of studies show a health and nutritional improvements in the breast, but practically no difference in mental well-being.

Hammer89 · 08-12-2015 8:49pm

greenorchard wrote: »

What would you have said if she'd asked if it was ok? I've never & would never ask for someone's permission to breastfeed in front of them.

Even if it was in front of your younger male cousin? If so then fair enough. I'm not judging. I just thought it was weird. If it were me, I couldn't lift one out and let the baby do its thing without asking or at least giving some sort of warning. I'd try to be as sensitive as possible.

deseil · 08-12-2015 8:49pm

lazygal wrote: »

What do you mean by decorum? How, exactly, should a woman who is breastfeeding in a different manner to someone who is bottle feeding?

Because a bottle isnt a body part that is not usually on show. I breastfed and always did so discreetly.
I never would have dreamed to just whip out my boob in full view of anyone. Its a body part that is normaly covered and I dont see the fact that it is being used to feed a baby changes that,so of course it makes people uncomfortable.

greenorchard · 08-12-2015 8:59pm

Hammer89 wrote: »

Even if it was in front of your younger male cousin? If so then fair enough. I'm not judging. I just thought it was weird. If it were me, I couldn't lift one out and let the baby do its thing without asking or at least giving some sort of warning. I'd try to be as sensitive as possible.

I've fed in front of a few male relatives, though I always feed by pulling my top up so you'd see very little anyway. Even that seems to make some people uncomfortable though. I met a few friends for lunch at the weekend & fed my baby at one stage. I noticed one of the girls completely avoided eye contact or looking at me at all while I fed even though you couldn't see a thing!

bee06 · 08-12-2015 9:04pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm more curious to know how would you phrase that question given that according to the woman in the article, it was another woman who she claims looked at her with disgust.

I have doubts about whether that disgusted woman actually exists but it's a fair point and I did think about that when I was phrasing my question but I was more interested in responses from men who seem uncomfortable with the idea especially the poster who likened breastfeeding to picking your nose and potentially how they reacted/changed their mind when their partner was breastfeeding and that's what prompted me to direct it at the male posters.

lazza14 · 08-12-2015 9:11pm

Always amazes me how in American society a breastfeeding woman is considered bad for children to look at, yet violence on TV is perfectly ok ...

One eyed Jack · 08-12-2015 9:22pm

lazza14 wrote: »

Always amazes me how in American society a breastfeeding woman is considered bad for children to look at, yet violence on TV is perfectly ok ...

It doesn't amaze me at all that some people will make generalised sweeping statements about a society of 315 million people who are a whole mixture of cultures, ethnicities, customs and values, but yeah, breastfeeding is a no no while violence on tv is grand...

Someone's been spending too much time exposed to a particular narrative might be given to thinking that alright.

lazygal · 08-12-2015 9:22pm

http://www.buzzfeed.com/southerndisposition/25-historical-images-that-normalize-breastfeeding-jlw6#.eizv9VnV8

Interesting images of breastfeeding here.

*SPOILER ALERT/WARNING FOR THE SENSITIVE-NOT ALL WOMEN ARE DOING IT DISCRETELY*

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 08-12-2015 9:23pm

lazygal wrote: »

What do you mean by decorum? How, exactly, should a woman who is breastfeeding in a different manner to someone who is bottle feeding?

Pulling your breast out as per example in OP vs discreetly popping it out underneath and leaving your baby latch on? I mean if a mother was making a drama out of feeding her baby from a bottle I'd think she was a knob too.

As do I think parents who change their kids on the table of a cafe/seat of a cafe/restaurant are self entitled knobs too.

lazygal · 08-12-2015 9:24pm

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Pulling your breast out as per example in OP vs discreetly popping it out underneath and leaving your baby latch on? I mean if a mother was making a drama out of feeding her baby from a bottle I'd think she was a knob too.

As do I think parents who change their kids on the table of a cafe/seat of a cafe/restaurant are self entitled knobs too.

I could pull out a breast to feed without making a drama out of it. It's necessary sometimes in the early days when establishing the correct latch to have the whole breast on and help the baby to latch on correctly.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 08-12-2015 9:34pm

lazygal wrote: »

I could pull out a breast to feed without making a drama out of it. It's necessary sometimes in the early days when establishing the correct latch to have the whole breast on and help the baby to latch on correctly.

Look, I'm pro breast is best so I'm not arguing with you about that.
I also think the baby being comfortable and being fed comfortably is the most important - this comes before any shrinking violets ashamed of their/other people's bodies. If the mother is more comfortable using something to drape over herself and her baby, that's fine but she shouldn't feel like she has to.

However; what I don't understand people who go out of their way to make a point about something, look for reasons to be offended, look for people to be offended. Exposing yourself (not even comfortably in the OP) just to make a point/gain attention. Or in a previous posters post, having his cousin whip out her boob in his house making him uncomfortable. I've seen enough boobs in my time to not be a bit bothered by that but I can understand why you might feel a bit uncomfortable seeing your cousin flash her boob/nipple. That's all well and good when you're in your own home, but when you're out and about - you do need to bear others in mind within reason.

When you can do something discreetly, why wouldn't you? It's a different story if you need to expose more to help the baby latch on, or you're not in a comfortable position, the child needs to be fed and it can't be avoided but when it can be avoided, why wouldn't they?

It's the self entitled attitude of "I can do what I want, where I want, and make as many people as I want uncomfortable" yes, you certainly can, but it makes you a knob. If you're showing a bit of respect all round, no doubt you get it back.

One eyed Jack · 08-12-2015 9:36pm

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.buzzfeed.com/southerndisposition/25-historical-images-that-normalize-breastfeeding-jlw6#.eizv9VnV8

Interesting images of breastfeeding here.

*SPOILER ALERT/WARNING FOR THE SENSITIVE-NOT ALL WOMEN ARE DOING IT DISCRETELY*

At least you warned people that it was a link to Buzzfeed! :pac:

There was only one interesting picture among those pictures, the only picture that where the mother was looking around her to see who was looking at her - the picture from the 1930's of the black woman looking around her to see who was looking at her!

The rest of the pictures, the women are either oblivious to everyone around them, or they're focused on feeding their babies. The woman in the second picture might be having a stare-down with someone though :pac:

Yeah_Right · 08-12-2015 9:38pm

Hammer89 wrote: »

I've had my cousin whip her tit out in my living room before and it made me extremely uncomfortable. I've got no problems with the act itself, but given that it was just the three of us in a small enough room, she could've asked if it would be okay.

I hear ya man. I've sat there and carried on conversations with friends or colleagues while they breastfed. No problem. But for some reason seeing relatives do it was weird. Especially my sister. I have no explanation why I feel this way.

lazygal · 08-12-2015 9:38pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

At least you warned people that it was a link to Buzzfeed! :pac:

There was only one interesting picture among those pictures, the only picture that where the mother was looking around her to see who was looking at her - the picture from the 1930's of the black woman looking around her to see who was looking at her!

The rest of the pictures, the women are either oblivious to everyone around them, or they're focused on feeding their babies. The woman in the second picture might be having a stare-down with someone though :pac:

I think its more likely she's wondering where the hell her husband and/or other child have disappeared off too and why they aren't bringing her a cuppa.

madeinamerica · 08-12-2015 9:42pm

Those who don't like to see lots of boob (or any boob) on show when a woman is breastfeeding, can I ask why? What is it that you don't like, what does it make you feel and why do you feel that way?

Canterelle · 08-12-2015 9:59pm

Having read all this all I can say is wow! A woman breastfeeding, 'discreetly' or otherwise should be commended. It's a hard enough thing to sustain and I take my hat off to those who can last past my miserable 3 months and 12weeks, consecutively. First time was 14 years ago and by god it was so hard to do in public in Ireland. Yes I covered up, and yes I fed my baby in the toilet. I wish I hadn't felt I had to! There is nothing remotely sexual or indecent about a nursing mother. Still think the picture in the op was posed but hey, wish it was around in my day!

jimdublin15 · 08-12-2015 10:13pm

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.buzzfeed.com/southerndisposition/25-historical-images-that-normalize-breastfeeding-jlw6#.eizv9VnV8

Interesting images of breastfeeding here.

*SPOILER ALERT/WARNING FOR THE SENSITIVE-NOT ALL WOMEN ARE DOING IT DISCRETELY*

Great art does not need comments to portray a message, the commentary underneath the photo's & photo No 23/25 did not add value. Now i do understand the point the comments are trying to make however I do think it took something away from photo's and art that are by themselves far more powerful than the comments could ever be.

Hammer89 · 08-12-2015 10:17pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I hear ya man. I've sat there and carried on conversations with friends or colleagues while they breastfed. No problem. But for some reason seeing relatives do it was weird. Especially my sister. I have no explanation why I feel this way.

It's because it's your sister! You're family and it'd be very, very weird if it wasn't uncomfortable seeing your sister's breasts.

ThinkProgress · 08-12-2015 10:27pm

So I think most of us are in agreement that it's better to do the act discreetly. (under - not over was the general consensus, right?)

Like this excellent illustrative diagram below:

https://i1.ytimg.com/vi/b_a0eY1OUZE/hqdefault.jpg

One eyed Jack · 08-12-2015 10:35pm

Hammer89 wrote: »

It's because it's your sister! You're family and it'd be very, very weird if it wasn't uncomfortable seeing your sister's breasts.

I think it's more weird because when a person is used to seeing breasts in a sexual context (as I admittedly am!), it can be difficult to get your head around a woman breastfeeding. In other cultures, they're more used to the opposite way round - women breastfeeding, be they sisters, mothers or cousins, is nothing to them. I don't think we'll ever reach a point in Western society where women's breasts are viewed as function over form, because we live in a hypersexualised society where the titillation of a woman's breasts means that women having their breasts out in public is always going to be something noticeable rather than normalised.

Reason being - in Western society we cover ourselves up most of the time, whereas in other cultures, they don't particularly have the same notions we do about modesty and so on. I'm sure I'd eventually get used to the sight of breasts too if I lived in a society where they don't particularly care about modesty.

full_irish · 08-12-2015 10:48pm

From her facebook page:

breastfeeding, babywearing, cloth diapering, nonvaxing, co-sleeping, ERF, intactivist mama of 2

For that alone, in my book she is a reckless role model for anyone to be following - fair play on breastfeeding your child. He'll be well nourished for if/when a highly preventable and possibly fatal disease comes around.

Not only is she endangering the life of her own child, its idiots like her that mean areas now no longer have 'herd immunity' and putting others people children at risk.

eviltwin · 08-12-2015 10:54pm

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.buzzfeed.com/southerndisposition/25-historical-images-that-normalize-breastfeeding-jlw6#.eizv9VnV8

Interesting images of breastfeeding here.

*SPOILER ALERT/WARNING FOR THE SENSITIVE-NOT ALL WOMEN ARE DOING IT DISCRETELY*

Those pictures are beautiful.

darkpagandeath · 08-12-2015 10:55pm

To the people saying this is normal and totally natural. Not that I disagree, Why would people stare ?

inocybe · 08-12-2015 10:59pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

To the people saying this is normal and totally natural. Not that I disagree, Why would people stare ?

Because they think you should be at home or sitting in a public toilet

eviltwin · 08-12-2015 11:00pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

To the people saying this is normal and totally natural. Not that I disagree, Why would people stare ?

Why would you stare at anyone. Because they are rude.

One eyed Jack · 08-12-2015 11:03pm

full_irish wrote: »

From her facebook page:

For that alone, in my book she is a reckless role model for anyone to be following - fair play on breastfeeding your child. He'll be well nourished for if/when a highly preventable and possibly fatal disease comes around.

Not only is she endangering the life of her own child, its idiots like her that mean areas now no longer have 'herd immunity' and putting others people children at risk.

The hell is a babywearing, cloth diapering inactivist?

The humblebrag is strong with this one :pac:

One eyed Jack · 08-12-2015 11:06pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

To the people saying this is normal and totally natural. Not that I disagree, Why would people stare ?

Because it's not normal to see women breastfeeding in public is why people stare. Now whether they stare out of curiosity, bemusement or disgust, is completely open to interpretation and dependent upon context.

Yeah_Right · 08-12-2015 11:33pm

full_irish wrote: »

From her facebook page:

For that alone, in my book she is a reckless role model for anyone to be following - fair play on breastfeeding your child. He'll be well nourished for if/when a highly preventable and possibly fatal disease comes around.

Not only is she endangering the life of her own child, its idiots like her that mean areas now no longer have 'herd immunity' and putting others people children at risk.

I think her FB statuses could fit in well over on the Dumb Facebook Status thread.

Can someone help me out? What is babywearing, ERF, co-sleeping and intactivist?

ceadaoin. · 08-12-2015 11:46pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think her FB statuses could fit in well over on the Dumb Facebook Status thread.

Can someone help me out? What is babywearing, ERF, co-sleeping and intactivist?

Babywearing - using baby carriers like a baby bjorn or ergo where the baby is held against your chest

Co sleeping- sharing a bed with your kids

Don't know about the others

09-12-2015 12:17am

ThinkProgress wrote: »

In fairness now... they really were milkin that situation a bit.

Yes and think of the negative impact it may possibly have on udders!... :pac:

09-12-2015 12:28am

I just Googled an intactivist. It's someone who is against circumcission of infants.

And I think ERF (extended rear facing) has something to do with position of car seats and having older children facing that way.
That, or she has spare time to do math.

donegaLroad · 09-12-2015 1:05am

the missus does this all the time. I dont understand the fuss? did no-one ever see a breast before?

ceadaoin. · 09-12-2015 1:06am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

And I think ERF (extended rear facing) has something to do with position of car seats and having older children facing that way.
That, or she has spare time to do math.

Oh, that rings a bell now. I didn't realise it was a 'cause' now and something to use to highlight your superior parenting skills.

Maximus Alexander · 09-12-2015 1:06am

donegaLroad wrote: »

the missus does this all the time. I dont understand the fuss? did no-one ever see a breast before?

I never have.

09-12-2015 1:28am

I have to be honest and let all women know:

If I see a woman breastfeeding in public, I will instinctively rate her attractiveness, and if she is of a required standard I can guarantee I will be titillated and stealing a few sneaky glances over there.

I know it's sick but I can't help it, I was born this way damnit.

If women don't want this then they can be discrete and/or do in private.

mckar · 09-12-2015 1:39am

I breastfed 3 of my kids and only lasted a month on first two the 3rd one was a success if I had of been more comfortable with all of them it would never of been an issue society needs to stop judging woman that feed in public. I felt so uncomfortable because of others getting past that is incredibly hard fare play it is a beautiful natural experience . Definitely needs more people like this making other looking to be the ones feel uncomfortable and not the mothers.

Samaris · 09-12-2015 2:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

I have to be honest and let all women know:

If I see a woman breastfeeding in public, I will instinctively rate her attractiveness, and if she is of a required standard I can guarantee I will be titillated and stealing a few sneaky glances over there.

I know it's sick but I can't help it, I was born this way damnit.

If women don't want this then they can be discrete and/or do in private.

...So, women should put themselves to a lot of extra work in terms of finding a private place to go because you can't keep your eyes to yourself.

We all have impulses or whatevers that are not appropriate, but we control them, born with them or not.

You were doing fine until the last sentence. At that point you basically said that because -you- can't control yourself, it's up to women to keep themselves modestly covered in your vicinity. I hate to basically Godwin, but that's the justification for burqas.

09-12-2015 3:16am

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.buzzfeed.com/southerndisposition/25-historical-images-that-normalize-breastfeeding-jlw6#.eizv9VnV8

Interesting images of breastfeeding here.

*SPOILER ALERT/WARNING FOR THE SENSITIVE-NOT ALL WOMEN ARE DOING IT DISCRETELY*

It shows how low Buzzfeeds threshold is when it comes to describing things as "historic".

If they were honest, they should have labelled it "some random breastfeeding images with inane and trite comments".

XR3i · 09-12-2015 5:20am

is she hot?

One eyed Jack · 09-12-2015 5:27am

mckar wrote: »

I breastfed 3 of my kids and only lasted a month on first two the 3rd one was a success if I had of been more comfortable with all of them it would never of been an issue society needs to stop judging woman that feed in public. I felt so uncomfortable because of others getting past that is incredibly hard fare play it is a beautiful natural experience . Definitely needs more people like this making other looking to be the ones feel uncomfortable and not the mothers.

'Society' doesn't judge women who feed in public, most people don't actually care, as was seen in the photo in the opening post, none of the diners around her cared what she was doing, and as was seen in the photos lazygal linked to, nobody around them in the group shots, cared what the women were doing.

The last thing anyone needs IMO is someone like the woman in the opening post who craves attention and validation for her lifestyle choices that she goes out of her way to find someone she claims is offended by her breastfeeding (though we never see this other woman?), so she didn't make anyone feel uncomfortable, she just made people think she's an idiot that wanted to draw attention to herself, and given her description of herself on her social media profile, she obviously thinks of herself as some kind of hero, a champion for breastfeeding mothers everywhere with her co-sleeping (see the advice from the American Paediatric Association on SIDS and co-sleeping), ERF (basically she's a helicopter parent), non-vaxing (already been covered, she's an idiot for this alone)...

Seriously, the last example anyone should follow IMO is this attention seeking idiot. Their goal shouldn't be to make other people feel uncomfortable, because that's not normal, and it does nothing for other women who breastfeed in public, it only makes the person doing a stare-down while breastfeeding look like a bit of a tit.

lazza14 · 09-12-2015 8:57am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It doesn't amaze me at all that some people will make generalised sweeping statements about a society of 315 million people who are a whole mixture of cultures, ethnicities, customs and values, but yeah, breastfeeding is a no no while violence on tv is grand...

Someone's been spending too much time exposed to a particular narrative might be given to thinking that alright.

No need for that, I mean its prevalent there, just look at the fuss made when
Janet Jacksons breast was exposed at the superbowl ...

Kev W · 09-12-2015 9:08am

lazza14 wrote: »

No need for that, I mean its prevalent there, just look at the fuss made when
Janet Jacksons breast was exposed at the superbowl ...

You mean the fuss made by a handful of TV executives? Because most people seemed to find it funny or not care at all.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 09-12-2015 9:18am

You know the funny thing is, moms like her, the mom activist, would more than likely have no problem judging another mom next to her for bottle feeding her child.

My own (American) cousin on Facebook feels the need to tell everyone else what they're doing wrong during pregnancy, boasts about judging working moms who miss their kids shows at school, say no to vaccinations (despite her kid getting very ill with whooping cough), co sleep, all this other "I know best" bull**** and her kids never having had a vaccination out of 4 kids, she claims 3 are autistic and 1 is adhd. Funny how she has no problem medicating them for that.

And woe betide if someone decided not to breastfeed, apparently you'd be better off giving your child a bottle full of crack

One eyed Jack · 09-12-2015 9:31am

lazza14 wrote: »

No need for that, I mean its prevalent there, just look at the fuss made when
Janet Jacksons breast was exposed at the superbowl ...

You're right, 'twas a bit harsh in hindsight, I apologise for that much, but you're after leaving me even more confused now because your original point was referring to women breastfeeding -

lazza14 wrote: »

Always amazes me how in American society a breastfeeding woman is considered bad for children to look at, yet violence on TV is perfectly ok ...

So I have no idea what Janet Jackson exposing her breast has to do with that?

You do know that Americans are the largest producer and consumer of pornography in the world?

You do know that there are many lobby groups in the US who campaign against all forms of violence in the media?

Depending upon your perspective, you could think anything was prevalent in a society of 315 million people, but that doesn't necessarily mean it actually is! This relates back to the woman in the opening post - she imagines that other people have a problem with her breastfeeding in public, but the reality is that it's all in her head. She has an issue with breastfeeding in public so she projects her own insecurity onto other people as though they're the people who have issues.

Her issues are with herself, and I'd say that to any woman who felt like she couldn't breastfeed in public because she was paranoid that people might stare at her - that's her problem with herself, her own insecurity is what is preventing her from putting her baby's necessity before the opinions of strangers.

There's no need to 'normalise' something that's already normal in society.

Kev W · 09-12-2015 9:35am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

This relates back to the woman in the opening post - she imagines that other people have a problem with her breastfeeding in public, but the reality is that it's all in her head. She has an issue with breastfeeding in public so she projects her own insecurity onto other people as though they're the people who have issues.

The whole point was that someone did have a problem with her breastfeeding in public and made that known. Unless you now want to accuse her of lying or hallucinating?

crackers and cheese · 09-12-2015 9:37am

She could have been discreet but why should she? Breaststroke have been far too sexualized for such a long time that we forget their original function

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 09-12-2015 9:39am

Really? How did you get that from the pic in the OP? I mean all I see is an attention seeking lady in an uncomfortable looking position staring off into the distance, with plenty of people around her not paying any notice to her. I don't see anyone staring at her.

There was an issue here recently enough where some hotel had refused to allow the mother feed her child now, there's a real problem. There's an issue to go mad over.

Breastfeeding Mom in restaurant stare off...

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