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Breastfeeding Mom in restaurant stare off...

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  • Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    I knew a lady who breastfed her kid until they were around 5. Mainly at night to put them to bed. I thought it kinda weird. She did admit that it was harder for her to give it up then the child.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Actually I have no idea how baby or child feeding works at all, breastfeeding or not.

    If you dont have children I dont think its unusual that you wouldnt know how it works.

    Even if you do have children, I suppose different people and cultures do things differently.

    So if you breastfeed him twice or three times one day, but just once the next day, what does your body do with the excess milk, or how does it know to produce more some days? Thats probably a really dumb question but I genuinely wouldnt have a notion.
    Your body adjusts over time. Cluster feeding for the first few days, then at six weeks and 12 weeks' old there's another adjustment. My body makes milk for when its needed at this stage, because I fed on demand since my children were newborns. Newborn milk is totally different to toddler milk anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    lazygal wrote: »
    If I was a stricter mother I'd have weaned him at two-that was my plan. But he loves his morning feeds and the odd time he's sick or upset the breastmilk is the best thing for him. Trust me, you wouldn't feel sorry for him if you saw how happy he is having his feeds and when he tells me how yummy it is. It's for their benefit that I breastfed-I really didn't particularly like feeding either of my children for a long time.
    To be honest, I would feel sorry for him because if feel that he's being babied and not being allowed to grow up to reflect his age.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    smash wrote: »
    To be honest, I would feel sorry for him because if feel that he's being babied and not being allowed to grow up to reflect his age.
    He's two. How grown up should he be? He loves dinosaurs, cars, trains, diggers, all food and his books. And he loves having his breastmilk too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    lazygal wrote: »
    Newborn milk is totally different to toddler milk anyway.

    Really? How so?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    lazygal wrote: »
    Your body adjusts over time. Cluster feeding for the first few days, then at six weeks and 12 weeks' old there's another adjustment. My body makes milk for when its needed at this stage, because I fed on demand since my children were newborns. Newborn milk is totally different to toddler milk anyway.


    I knew another lady who breastfed her own twins and even donated breast milk. She is a slight little thing but by christ could you produce milk. She did tell it would scale back the less she did it, but demand was high.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    lazygal wrote: »
    He's two. How grown up should he be? He loves dinosaurs, cars, trains, diggers, all food and his books. And he loves having his breastmilk too.

    Isn't it the recommendation of the World Health Organization to breastfeed until two anyway? Don't understand all the fuss, he's two and he's happy to continue. Fair play to you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Really? How so?

    Breast milk adjusts over time to suit the child's nutritional needs


  • Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    I think WHO recommend that kids be breastfed until they are 30 months. Although they do factor in the poorer countries where an suitable alternative may not be readily available.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Really? How so?
    Newborn milk is colostrum intitally, its a different composition. When the weather is warmer, the milk changes to be more thirst quenching, during other times it adjusts too. One of the reasons my older child weaned was because I was six months pregnant and the taste changes as your body adjusts to getting ready for a newborn. My toddler doesn't need the fattier milk babies who don't eat solids require, so it doesn't make that milk, it makes milk for a toddler.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Breast milk adjusts over time to suit the child's nutritional needs

    Thats mad isnt it? No idea about that at all!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭greenorchard


    seamus wrote: »
    Some irrational arguments are just funny, they come up in the same format in the oddest of places.

    "I've no problem with breastfeeding, but...."

    There are a few people taking a lot of time to discuss what breastfeeding mothers should do in public while still claiming that they've no issues with breastfeeding.

    This. There's people on this thread who claim to have no problem with breastfeeding but have also said that it's unnecessary to do it in public & babies should be fed milk from a bottle in public instead. So they DO have a problem with it or they wouldn't make such a ridiculous suggestion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Lizony


    Im not against breastfeeding in public but that picture does seem to have been done to get attention instead of her just breastfeeding her child so it seems a bit silly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Isn't it the recommendation of the World Health Organization to breastfeed until two anyway? Don't understand all the fuss, he's two and he's happy to continue. Fair play to you.
    Yes, it is recommended to feed until two years of age. I had planned on weaning him when he turned two but he's happy and I'm not too bothered so I left it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    This seems like it would be a brilliant subject for one of those Ask Me Anything threads.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    lazygal wrote: »
    He's two. How grown up should he be? He loves dinosaurs, cars, trains, diggers, all food and his books. And he loves having his breastmilk too.

    Well he's old enough to not be babied by giving him your breast to sooth him whenever he gets upset. Honestly, if he's eating food then the breast is a comfort thing and nothing more and I'm of the opinion that you do it for you and not him. Either way, that's your choice. I might not agree with it and I've explained why but it's your choice so I've no interest in arguing about it as I find you an interesting poster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    lazygal wrote: »
    Yes, it is recommended to feed until two years of age. I had planned on weaning him when he turned two but he's happy and I'm not too bothered so I left it.


    I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It must be an amazing bonding time to have. You'll probably miss it more than him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    smash wrote: »
    Well he's old enough to not be babied by giving him your breast to sloth him whenever he gets upset. Honestly, if he's eating food then the breast is a comfort thing and nothing more and I'm of the opinion that you do it for you and not him. Either way, that's your choice. I might not agree with it and I've explained why but it's your choice so I've no interest in arguing about it as I find you an interesting poster.

    Get him a job digging turf, that'll toughen him up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    smash wrote: »
    Well he's old enough to not be babied by giving him your breast to sloth him whenever he gets upset. Honestly, if he's eating food then the breast is a comfort thing and nothing more and I'm of the opinion that you do it for you and not him. Either way, that's your choice. I might not agree with it and I've explained why but it's your choice so I've no interest in arguing about it as I find you an interesting poster.
    It really isn't solely a comfort thing as there are nutritional and health benefits to extended breastfeeding. But at two years of age what's wrong with a bit of comfort as well?


  • Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    I was never breastfed, well not as a kid anyway. My Ma tells me it wasn't the done thing in those days.

    Surely there have been studies of adults who were and were not? Would be an interesting read.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Kev W wrote: »
    This seems like it would be a brilliant subject for one of those Ask Me Anything threads.
    I would be happy to do one on breastfeeding. I never saw myself as someone who'd still be feeding a two year old but here I am and I'm happy to answer people's questions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    I was never breastfed, well not as a kid anyway. My Ma tells me it wasn't the done thing in those days.

    Surely there have been studies of adults who were and were not? Would be an interesting read.
    There have been studies. There's myriad reasons for health outcomes, but breastfeeding is the best for babies until six months at least, and WHO recommendations are to feed until two years of age.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭greenorchard


    I was never breastfed, well not as a kid anyway. My Ma tells me it wasn't the done thing in those days.

    Surely there have been studies of adults who were and were not? Would be an interesting read.

    Numerous studies have shown there's a range of health benefits - it reduces the child's chances of developing various illnesses & allergies. It's also been shown to reduce the mother's risk of developing breast & ovarian cancers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    lazygal wrote: »
    My first child weaned naturally, at 14 months. Natural weaning occurs when the child is ready to wean. Maybe that's two, maybe its four. Here's some information on it.

    http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleaderweb/lv/lvdec00jan01p112.html

    I am as well versed on breast feeding as any man can be and I am well aware of the benefits which mostly finished at the 6 month stage which is not coincidently also roughly when a child is ready for solid food. You are coming across in this thread as one of those people who thinks they know everything about a subject and need to educate the others. I can google all day long and find a lot of sites that will say 2 is too old.

    If a child at 2 is still showing no signs then it may not self wean for the simple reason that its no longer about food or sustinance but a habit / comfort thing. One which mammy is supporting. the child may possible see it as a bonding event and be reluctant to lose that. Thats not a dig at you in case it reads like it, just possible alternatives.

    Its no different to a soother and as I stated and you ignored, nappies. there comes a time when its in the childs interest for the adult parent to make decisions.

    I know a woman that breast feeds a 4 year old, trust me you dont want to be that person. Hes a nice kid but social skills and outward behaviour are very lacking. Tellingly the mother admits she wants him to remain a baby as long as possible being the last.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    esforum wrote: »
    I am as well versed on breast feeding as any man can be and I am well aware of the benefits which mostly finished at the 6 month stage which is not coincidently also roughly when a child is ready for solid food. You are coming across in this thread as one of those people who thinks they know everything about a subject and need to educate the others. I can google all day long and find a lot of sites that will say 2 is too old.

    If a child at 2 is still showing no signs then it may not self wean for the simple reason that its no longer about food or sustinance but a habit / comfort thing. One which mammy is supporting. the child may possible see it as a bonding event and be reluctant to lose that. Thats not a dig at you in case it reads like it, just possible alternatives.

    Its no different to a soother and as I stated and you ignored, nappies. there comes a time when its in the childs interest for the adult parent to make decisions.

    I know a woman that breast feeds a 4 year old, trust me you dont want to be that person. Hes a nice kid but social skills and outward behaviour are very lacking. Tellingly the mother admits she wants him to remain a baby as long as possible being the last.
    I can leave him overnight with my parents without an issue. He can cope fine without me when I am in work-I was back in full time work when both my children were 11 months old. I don't need dire warnings about other mothers and their breastfeeding experiences because what works for one mother and child won't work for another. I have friends who never breastfeed for many reasons and others who did it and hated it and others who's children weaned at three and a half. There's no one best way of breastfeeding, but it is recommended by the WHO to feed until a child is two years of age.


  • Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    lazygal wrote: »
    There have been studies. There's myriad reasons for health outcomes, but breastfeeding is the best for babies until six months at least, and WHO recommendations are to feed until two years of age.
    Numerous studies have shown there's a range of health benefits - it reduces the child's chances of developing various illnesses & allergies. It's also been shown to reduce the mother's risk of developing breast & ovarian cancers.


    There will be obvious health benefits alright. Everything about it is a good idea, getting fed from the body who grew you, just screams right.

    I'm more interested in the social differences if any. Do adult men view breasts in a different way. I suppose it would only apply to kids who were breastfed long term.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    osarusan wrote: »
    But you didn't leave the answers. You've obviously answered them from your perspective. You've said any number of times on this thread that this woman was being inconsiderate.

    So please tell us, prior to the stareoff with the other customer happening, what exactly was she doing that you deem to be inconsiderate and attention seeking?


    If she chooses to breastfeed in public, she's already considering herself over other people, and I don't have any issue with that, because she has to feed her child. It's when she decided to look around to see who's looking at her, and then engages in a stare-off, that I would say she was attention seeking. She needn't have bothered getting into a staring match, and you can come back and say the other woman shouldn't have been staring at her, but we can only control our own behaviour, we can't realistically control the thoughts and behaviour of other people around us.

    lazygal wrote: »
    But they are for feeding children. Again, you are projecting your feelings onto breastfeeding. You never told me how I could breastfeed considerately either. Why would you hope many women feel the same as you about breasts?


    Breasts aren't for feeding children, that's what mammary glands are for. Men have breasts too, and under certain circumstances can lactate too. I'm not projecting my feelings about breastfeeding on this one, on this occasion I'm suggesting that not everyone shares your reductionist thinking that breasts are solely for feeding children (which they aren't, at all). There are many people in Western society who attach far more value to women's breasts than simply serving a functional, biological purpose.

    I'm sure you're aware of women who have had mastectomies and the thought of you suggesting that well they were only for feeding children anyway would leave those women reeling. In those circumstances I'm sure you'd be capable of showing consideration for someone else besides yourself, and that's all it comes down to really. It's not simply about breastfeeding, it's about having consideration for other people. How you do that? Well that's up to you, I'm sure you're able to use your best judgement.

    eviltwin wrote: »
    When you are a nursing mother that is their primary function. Especially when you have a child who is hungry and getting cross. A woman on a plane can't exactly do much else but feed the child can she? What's more offensive to you, a glimpse of breast or a screaming baby?


    I don't think of a woman's breasts solely in terms of their functionality. I do that with inanimate objects. That's why I don't think in reductionist terms. I find such thinking leaves me cold tbh. If a woman is on a plane and she needs to breastfeed her child, but I can see she's self-conscious about it, I'm not going to lean over to her and say "Oh don't mind me, you go right ahead", because that's likely to make her even more self-conscious IMO. If her baby needs food, then that should be her priority, and not who's looking at her while she's doing it. I certainly wouldn't be among them anyway, and a screaming baby wouldn't bother me at all either. I'm well used to babies crying, never bothered me in the slightest, because I don't expect babies to have the same consideration for other people as I would expect adults to have for other people.

    It's just my opinion that actions like the woman in the OP has done, aren't about breastfeeding, they're about drawing attention to themselves, and that's excusable in children, just not so much in adults. Each scenario is a judgement call that will depend upon context. If a woman wants to breastfeed in public - by all means, have at it, but then looking around to see who's looking at her, and getting into stare-down matches? That's just silly, and I wouldn't give her the attention she craves. I'd simply carry on about my own business.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Kev W wrote: »
    If your entire argument is "they're only looking for attention" then you have no argument.

    Seriously, why do you keep shifting user's argument regarding certain women, to being about how all women? You are deliberately trying to suggest that people have an issue will public breastfeeding, period, why do you keep doing this? Wouldn't be because it's easier for you to do so than actually try and address points being made. Frame your retorts in such a manner and you might come across as wanting to have a discussion rather than just get your scalp.
    Unless you can demonstrate how the desire for attention is an inherently bad thing.

    I have just made it clear to you that in and of itself, it's not. Like I said, if they want to start a public exhibitionist website, let them at it, I'll check it out but when you use your children as part of that attention seeking, it's contemptible. That goes not just for the woman in the OP, but also all the way from appearing in Channel 4 docus (or other media on extending breastfeeding) to making overtly sexual YouTube videos regarding the same. Get the attention you crave on your own. No need to exploit your children in the process.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    I'm more interested in the social differences if any. Do adult men view breasts in a different way. I suppose it would only apply to kids who were breastfed long term.

    There may also be impacts for children who saw mammy breastfeeding younger children in the family, so they had it normalised by seeing it going on throughout their childhood.

    I am of the era where women didnt breastfeed and so never saw it happening at all as a child. I remember being a little shocked the first time I saw public breastfeeding.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    esforum wrote: »
    You are coming across in this thread as one of those people who thinks they know everything about a subject and need to educate the others.


    I think that comment is very unfair tbh. I'm glad to hear lazygal's experience of breastfeeding because it is educational, and I'm glad she's chosen to educate others, she's doing a hell of a lot more to educate people about breastfeeding and encouraging other women to breastfeed than the woman in the OP has done IMO.


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