Breastfeeding Mom in restaurant stare off...

Micky Dolenz

eviltwin wrote: »

Yes I have and before I did I thought it would be the easiest thing in the world to do. I thought I knew all there was to know about it, I'd read books on it, been to the classes, read up on the parenting websites. None of that is the same as actually having to do it and with the added difficulty of post natal exhaustion. So my eyes are a nod to the ignorance that comes from thinking how something is easy when you literally won't know until you try just how hard it can be.

Fair enough.

How long before you got it right and did you stick at it? Obviously you don't need to answer any questions from me. I am curious is all.

Was it a while ago? Because I do know that hospitals are now more engaged in the whole process now, with many regions having an after care community nurse system, where a nurse will call to the mother every day for ten days after birth, teaching stuff like breast feeding, swaddling etc.

XR3i

i was down in cork last year buying a few horses off some new age travellers, we had a deal made and afterwards they brought me in the mobile home for a cuppa, didn't they have no milk in the mobile for the tea so your woman whipped out a boob and put a squirt of milk in the tea, was as good as cow milk and i drank the whole lot so i did

K-9

The XR4i was a better version in fairness.

Micky Dolenz

XR3i wrote: »

i was down in cork last year buying a few horses off some new age travellers, we had a deal made and afterwards they brought me in the mobile home for a cuppa, didn't they have no milk in the mobile for the tea so your woman whipped out a boob and put a squirt of milk in the tea, was as good as cow milk and i drank the whole lot so i did

It's a bit too sweet for my liken.

osarusan

Penny Tration wrote: »

I don't think breastfeeding or having her entire breast over her top is really what people are giving out about here tbh.

Breastfeeding, if a woman can do it, is cleaner, easier, less time consuming and cheaper than bottle feeding. And I don't think any woman should be told to use a pump to express milk before leaving the house. many babies who are used to breast milk from the breast simply won't drink from a bottle.

Feeding in public is totally normal and natural. If the best way for someone to do it is to take their breast over their top, whatever, do it. If you need to fully expose both breasts to let baby go between each one, whatever, do that. My friend tried breastfeeding her newborn for the first time the other day and sat there with no clothes on her top half because she hadn't a clue how to manage it at all :pac:

The issue here is the woman used her staring down someone else as a photo opportunity to be plastered on the internet. First, if someone stares, fcuk them. Focus on feeding your baby, and ignore the idiot.

But to have photos taken of mum ignoring the baby on her breast to have a stare off with someone, then post it on the internet - it's attention seeking, plain and simple.

Feed your child in whatever way is comfortable and suitable for you and your baby, but why would you take pics and put them on the internet unless you wanted attention or validation?

Would you not agree that you have changed your tune a bit since earlier in the thread, when you were arguing that the way she was breastfeeding was designed to get attention?

Penny Tration wrote: »

But - if you're taking out your entire breast to feed your child, instead of using a feeding bra or top, then I'm also going to assume you're doing it for attention. Most mothers don't actually want to take out their entire breast and those who do - why?

And I don't get the 'ignore the baby on your breast' comment - breastfeeding takes time, and the mother can look round and carry on eating/talking without causing the baby any problems whatsoever. It seems like a petty dig to be honest.

Was she looking for attention by posting what she did? Sure. But as I asked you earlier:

osarusan wrote: »

What makes you think it is more likely that the woman actually breastfed her baby in a way that would get her the attention she wanted*, rather than getting the attention she wanted through taking a picture of her response to some stranger staring at her?

*Considering you have already accepted that how she is breastfeeding in the picture might simply be the way that is most comfortable for her.

jimdublin15

sup_dude wrote: »

Not really irony when it showed that there is actually a need to discuss breast feeding with the public and highlighted the low numbers of breast feeders in Ireland. There is also quite a bit of what I would consider immaturity around breasts when they're used for their purpose.

Also, not sure if you mean that those who think breast feeding should be normalised are feminists, or that they could be accused of being feminists given how that label is thrown around a lot.

I think that label feminists is thrown out a lot, however on this topic i do think it's with thanks to groups and members such as the "Free to feed" who covered this story earlier last week. It should not be about if a woman can get her breasts out in public but made to be about breastfeeding, supporting breastfeeding and educating the public. The overall argument would perhaps be better brought if the focus of the stories was the child and the child's needs as a dependent and the baby's best interest. Instead of stories that seem to focus on pushing rights and oh no someone looked, freak out time stories.

I mean I am supportive of mum's who want to breastfeed and as i said before I see no reason for anyone to cover up when feeding babies, i think it's good other kids see and learn from it. That's how babies are fed.

However stories like the OP one are counter productive, it make me even a supportive person think twice as I don't want to be associated with what seems a ludicrous overreaction story. As said I think a better response would be to have continued as normal feeding her baby and ignored the 1 sole woman who's negative opinion was in the tiny minority within the restaurant. I think creating fuss over this puts people off supporting breastfeeding. Breastfeeding groups in the media don't help such as "Free to Feed", Quick to allow mum's and the public to call on Primark to fire a security guy, and pressured Primark into a response, supported allegations that the security guy was supposedly stopping a member from feeding. However the same group very slow to apologize to Primark, and in the end did not apologize at all to the guy Mr. Mahomad XYZ (Ill leave his last name out) when it turned out the story was utterly fabricated. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12030648/Primark-breastfeeding-ban-liar-Caroline-Starmer-avoids-prison.html

darkpagandeath

https://notesfromachair.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/image.jpg

XR3i

K-9 wrote: »

The XR4i was a better version in fairness.

the only XR4is we ever seen were in the autotrader uk

circadian

I think some people need to chill out on the whole reacting to breastfeeding in public thing. It's normal, there's nothing wrong with it. At the same time, people breastfeeding in public shouldn't rise to these people. It's their problem if they want to get worked up about it.

Also, the pic has no context she's just looking off into the distance. I know the article says "I know it looks like...." but still no context.

MadsL

Gaygooner wrote: »

How many women do you guys know that "lob" breasts out?

I get to some good parties once in a while...

LETHAL LADY

Oh Mickey I'm sure you're an expert , but I'd like to give you a little glimpse into what our current public maternity services are like. I've three kids so I didn't head into this green.

The ante natal appointments were so busy that I was lucky to even get a scan. Tough **** on me if there was anything wrong with my baby. No fault of the nurses or doctors of course, but they are definitely working in an over capacity situtation.

When I did go into labour I held out for as long as I could because having been down that road before I knew I'd be left in agony until I could be seen, but eventually I had to go to the hospital. When I got there there was three nurses and one doctor supervising the labour ward. There was also a queue of women, some only teenagers with terrified faces, waiting in agony to even just get an initial exam. I eventually got a bed in the four bed ward and right opposite me there was a women screaming and crying because she was miscarrying a baby due to a car accident.

Anyway, when I was ready to go I had to hold out for one of the two delivery suites to be free. This was not through personal choice, but as the head nurse told me it was simply because there was not enough staff to ensure a safe delivery for my baby.

When I finally got into the delivery suite I was being looked after by two of the nurses who were also dealing with everyone else in labour. The place was so chaotic I had to roar at some young lad to get out, as he'd walked in on me, with my legs akimbo, thinking his own partner was still in there delivering their baby.

Luckily, everything went ok for me and I have a lovely healthy baby, but I was kicked out of the hospital within twelve hours of giving birth so they could free up a bed.

My point being that nowadays there is no time for nurses or midwives to help women or advise them on breastfeeding methods once they've given birth, but maybe I should aspire to be more like a Peruvian mountain women instead!

Can you imagine this being your first childbirth experience and still being able to go home feeling comfortable about breastfeeding?

jimdublin15

XR3i wrote: »

i was down in cork last year buying a few horses off some new age travellers, we had a deal made and afterwards they brought me in the mobile home for a cuppa, didn't they have no milk in the mobile for the tea so your woman whipped out a boob and put a squirt of milk in the tea, was as good as cow milk and i drank the whole lot so i did

serious question really ? I've tasted breast milk once by accident it was horrible.

Sir Osis of Liver.

jimdublin15 wrote: »

serious question really ? I've tasted breast milk once by accident it was horrible.

Did you accidentally fall onto a womans tit in Tescos breastfeeding room?

The Sidewards Man

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It's a bit too sweet for my liken.

You milking daily on the farm?

XR3i

jimdublin15 wrote: »

serious question really ? I've tasted breast milk once by accident it was horrible.

ya i'm serious milk is milk,

anyway they had the heating on in the mobile and i was looking for somewhere to hang my jacket and didn't she whip out the bo*b again and didn't i hang me jacket on the nipp*e

jimdublin15

Sir Osis of Liver. wrote: »

Did you accidentally fall onto a womans tit in Tescos breastfeeding room?

No, not sure that would work.

To keep a long story short it was a late night and had to do with pumping breast milk, so I could feed our 2nd baby.

Yeah_Right

I don't give a **** if a woman wants to breastfeed in a public place. Doesn't bother me at all. However I believe some of them, like the woman in the picture, want to draw attention to the fact they're breastfeeding and are actually looking for a confrontation.

The bigger issue I've noticed from reading this thread is that people are breastfeeding 2 year olds!! WTF? That is weird.

NachoBusiness

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Of course not, nudity for all as far as I'm concerned, in fact I'm naked in the bath right now.

...

One eyed Jack

mynameis905 wrote: »

You obviously do. Earlier you were criticising women who breast fed over their top rather than under with your nonsense about their being a 'correct' way to breastfeed a child. You also suggested that women should use a pump prior to going out. Now you're completely ok with breastfeeding in public?

It's like you're determined to take me up wrong. I wasn't criticising women who breastfeed over their top, and yes, in contrast to this perceived "necessity" to breastfeed in public, an alternative suggestion is to carry a bottle of breast milk. It's not a perfect solution, but the world doesn't revolve around breastfeeding women. I shouldn't have to state it again, but no, I personally have no problem with women who choose to breastfeed in public.

Unlikely, unless your real life persona is the complete opposite of your posting style online.

Why wouldn't I step in if I saw someone being humiliated in public? I wouldn't want any woman to feel like she couldn't breastfeed in public. There's a world of a difference between that, and a woman looking for attention, and if a woman was complaining because someone was staring at her, and she decided to get into a stare-off, then one is as stupid as the other and I wouldn't bother intervening.

You just couldn't resist getting that dig in and discrediting the woman, could you?

That wasn't getting a dig in at anyone. That was acknowledging that some women consider it sexist if a man defends them. I have no issue with being seen as sexist, because I am, so it wouldn't bother me a whole pile if a woman told be bugger off and mind my own business if I intervened to stop someone else trying to humiliate her for breastfeeding.

But, but, but I thought you had no problem with breastfeeding? I would have thought that a practise like breastfeeding that millions of women around the world do on a daily basis could hardly be considered 'unusual'

But, but, do millions of women breastfeed in public here in Ireland? No, no they don't, so in that context, yes, it is unusual and uncommon to see women breastfeeding in public.

greenorchard wrote: »

So because your wife didn't breastfeed it's inconsiderate of other women to do it in public?

And that's the exact opposite of what I said, if you actually read my post.

And it's only 'unusual' in Ireland as we have the worst breastfeeding rates in the world. One of the ways to help change this is for women to feed in public & help normalise it.

Why do we need to change it? Why not accept that it is a woman's choice whether she chooses to breastfeed or not, and it's not her duty to breastfeed in public just to normalise it for other women who are so insecure about their own choice to breastfeed in public. Do it if you want to do it, but that's no way to educate and encourage other women to join your cause.

Sir Osis of Liver.

jimdublin15 wrote: »

No, not sure that would work.

To keep a long story short it was a late night and had to do with pumping breast milk, so I could feed our 2nd baby.

Fair enough.
I thought you might have had the same accident as me.

Neyite

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Most women in the western world who don't breastfeed choose not to breastfed. And there are loads of reasons, work, dependency etc etc.

Maybe I've heard too many friends complain and stop breastfeeding because they couldn't and when they explain it's normally because of soreness and being a pain. They clearly could do it because they were. They stopped doing it for the above reasons.

I don't think the low breastfeeding rates are just down to difficulty in feeding or inconvenience, a lot of it is down to the fact that a whole generation of breastfeeding knowledge was wiped out thanks to the massive marketing campaign for formula that our mothers or grandmothers were subject to. Ironically that same marketing push that formula manufacturers are now pushing in developing countries and the likes of China - Ireland supplies between 10% and 15% of the worlds milk powder for infant formula.

Every one of the women in my family of this generation successfully breastfed for at least the minimum recommended amount of time. Not a single aunt did, or my grandmother on my mother's side. Breasts were private (therefore dirty and sinful) to breastfeed in public was unheard of back then, so that made breastfeeding on demand terribly inconvenient and impractical. Likely some religious thing built in there. Similarly my partners mother never breastfed either.

3 years ago in the maternity ward, only three of six of us on the ward attempted breastfeeding, the other three babies had their first feeds on the bottle. It could have been for genuine reasons that those women chose bottle over breast, or it could have just been that they preferred to go with what they knew - bottle feeding. My mum was supportive, but useless in terms of knowledge. I got the best tips and tricks from family members who had breastfed. And I have to say, the nurses were brilliant and helpful but doing a CPD course tacked onto their training is no substitute for personal experience of breastfeeding. It's like getting swimming lessons from someone who watched a video and passed a test yet never dipped a toe in water. Now, imagine that as far back as you can remember, nobody swam or learned to swim. Your GP said it was unhygienic. Your priest preached that it was immodest, and even if you were wiling to overlook that, few people knew how to teach you to swim. Knowledge gets lost along the way.

Breastfeeding knowledge is improving slowly in the western world, coming back from the brink of almost total wipe out. It will take time though.

LETHAL LADY

Neyite wrote: »

I don't think the low breastfeeding rates are just down to difficulty in feeding or inconvenience, a lot of it is down to the fact that a whole generation of breastfeeding knowledge was wiped out thanks to the massive marketing campaign for formula that our mothers or grandmothers were subject to. Ironically that same marketing push that formula manufacturers are now pushing in developing countries and the likes of China - Ireland supplies between 10% and 15% of the worlds milk powder for infant formula.

Every one of the women in my family of this generation successfully breastfed for at least the minimum recommended amount of time. Not a single aunt did, or my grandmother on my mother's side. Breasts were private (therefore dirty and sinful) to breastfeed in public was unheard of back then, so that made breastfeeding on demand terribly inconvenient and impractical. Likely some religious thing built in there. Similarly my partners mother never breastfed either.

3 years ago in the maternity ward, only three of six of us on the ward attempted breastfeeding, the other three babies had their first feeds on the bottle. It could have been for genuine reasons that those women chose bottle over breast, or it could have just been that they preferred to go with what they knew - bottle feeding. My mum was supportive, but useless in terms of knowledge. I got the best tips and tricks from family members who had breastfed. And I have to say, the nurses were brilliant and helpful but doing a CPD course tacked onto their training is no substitute for personal experience of breastfeeding. It's like getting swimming lessons from someone who watched a video and passed a test yet never dipped a toe in water. Now, imagine that as far back as you can remember, nobody swam or learned to swim. Your GP said it was unhygienic. Your priest preached that it was immodest, and even if you were wiling to overlook that, few people knew how to teach you to swim. Knowledge gets lost along the way.

Breastfeeding knowledge is improving slowly in the western world, coming back from the brink of almost total wipe out. It will take time though.

I may be going off on a tangent with this one, but the barriers have been placed there for women in Ireland to be sure. Let us not go down the road of women being churched! Something I'd never even heard about until my own father told me he had seen with his own eyes :eek: and he is only in his 70's

Women were seen as sexual and impure after having their baby. God forbid you'd unveil even a hint of a breast!

RDM_83 again

Yeah_Right wrote: »

The bigger issue I've noticed from reading this thread is that people are breastfeeding 2 year olds!! WTF? That is weird.

Is that actually weird? Took a look online and the weaning age thing seems to be surprisingly controversial but two isn't on the older end of the scale.

To be honest this is why I hate the self obsessed tumblr culture, I think its an important, provably beneficial natural thing to be doing (and the bottled milk industry has had a seriously dodgy past particularly in relation to the 3rd world) but I want to argue against this because its not framed this way, its framed as an issue of sexualisation,offence seeking, empowerment and smashing prudish attitudes

Yeah_Right

Yeah_Right wrote: »

The bigger issue I've noticed from reading this thread is that people are breastfeeding 2 year olds!! WTF? That is weird.

What I noticed was that attention seeker lady is 24 and has two kids already.

If that was here she'd be turning down council houses in Clondalkin. :eek:

Azalea

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

women being churched! Something I'd never even heard about until my own father told me he had seen with his own eyes :eek: and he is only in his 70's

I'd say younger people remember it in rural Ireland - it was still happening in the '60s.
One of the more bizarre applications of "logic" - married woman so can have sexual intercourse but ideally only for procreation, has baby - good thing in the eyes of God, must be cleansed of the sin of intercourse after birth still though.

Yosef.coen

Women like this are annoying. 'Oh look at meeeeee, see how much a of a good mother I am, I have to lob my boob out in public and peacock myself in front of strangers to affirm to my insecure self that I am a good mother' *Selfie* *smileyface* #Dayout #Iamsogreat #motheroftheyear #Love


STFU you attention seeker!

One eyed Jack

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Is that actually weird? Took a look online and the weaning age thing seems to be surprisingly controversial but two isn't on the older end of the scale.

The reason it's so controversial is because it's yet another way to compete to be better than anyone else, and less about how it benefits the growing child as and when to wean them off. Some women I've read about are still breastfeeding children at 10 years of age, but they're the type I read about in glossy magazines (an extreme example tbf, although check the link to Time magazine of all magazines that Nacho posted earlier).

To be honest this is why I hate the self obsessed tumblr culture, I think its an important, provably beneficial natural thing to be doing (and the bottled milk industry has had a seriously dodgy past particularly in relation to the 3rd world) but I want to argue against this because its not framed this way, its framed as an issue of sexualisation,offence seeking, empowerment and smashing prudish attitudes

Nail on the fcuking head.

LETHAL LADY

Azalea wrote: »

I'd say younger people remember it in rural Ireland - it was still happening in the '60s.
One of the more bizarre applications of "logic" - married woman so can have sexual intercourse but ideally only for procreation, has baby - good thing in the eyes of God, must be cleansed of the sin of intercourse after birth still though.

Can you just imagine what living in these times was like for women! Like it would be funny if it wasn't so true unfortunately:(

IvyTheTerrible

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Can you just imagine what living in these times was like for women! Like it would be funny if it wasn't so true unfortunately:(

My granny was churched, so she couldn't attend my mum's christening. They had a name picked for my mum but the priest made grandad pick another one. So my mum got named without my granny's consent! Mad Ted!

lazygal

I'm still feeding a child who's over two. Not very strange at all. WHO recommended age for breastfeeding is until two at least. Natural weaning is better for for child too.