Police Shoot and Kill Homeless Man

Little CuChulainn · 02-03-2015 11:11pm

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

They should really hire hardened warriors like yourself. Forged in the fires of action movies and armed with the Keyboard of Judgement. You cannot train someone to handle a situation like that. There is no way to predict how a person will react in a real life situation when the adrenalin starts pumping and the fight or flight reflex tries to take over. If you want people out there enforcing the law and putting themselves in dangerous situations then this is just something you have to accept.

eeepaulo · 02-03-2015 11:13pm

I hear what you are saying but in this case 6 cops going to arrest someone in a tent, (that isnt confirmed but is being suggested) various batons / tasers / guns /sprays.

Could they have been any less competent?

Im trying to think of a situation i would trust these people in.

Fukuyama · 02-03-2015 11:18pm

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Jittery and Paranoid? Isn't this exactly how anybody would be when outnumbered in darkness by multiple junkies, one of whom keeps reaching for what could well be a gun, and you're rapidly approaching having to kill another human being and you really don't want to?

Get a grip. Nobody, cop, soldier or Iron Man can kill unflinchingly. In the moment the training might kick in and they can function for a few extra minutes. But the prevalence in PTSD among cops and troops who engaged enemies is proof.

He may have been "shreiking like a 6 year old" - so what? He's in a crap situation. I suppose you'd be Jame Bond or something? It never ever goes down like it does in the movies where the cop has an easy, obvious bad guy to shoot in the leg and he's a hero forever.

somefeen · 02-03-2015 11:21pm

If the cops didnt have guns there wouldnt have been a gun there for him to reach for.

jackofalltrades · 02-03-2015 11:22pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'll put it this way. I have have been attacked by drug addicts twice in Dublin. Once on my own and other time with groups. I wouldn't have military training but I have some boxing training. I managed to get out of difficulty with relative ease. I didn't have to kill him you may have guessed.

And were you armed when the drug addicts assaulted you?
Because unless you were then the two situations aren't comparable.

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The officer shot the man because he thought he was reaching for a weapon.
Retreating would have given him a further chance to draw the weapon and fire on him.

Fukuyama · 02-03-2015 11:22pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

You and me both. But that has very little relevance to the suitability of a former serviceman to a police organisation.

I'd say it does. A lot of people wan't vets to get jobs. And as a cop they still get to carry a gun and wear a flag to work.

Vast swathes of the US population are illogically protective of the military and vets. It's at a point where if a politician forgets to worship vets at an event, or maybe suggests a more realistic approach to dealing with military affairs, their career is basically over.

Kalman · 02-03-2015 11:27pm

yipeeeee wrote: »

You reach for a cops gun that's what happens, fairly simple logic.

Mother****er mother****er:) gotta love the American twang.

He should have went quietly !

Egginacup · 02-03-2015 11:29pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm up for correction, But no police force in the world is trained to shoot to wound. Once the gun is drawn it's a lethal force take down. Cops here only shoot to kill just like the UK or another police force in Europe. They did in France.

Cops in America "draw down" on toddlers because they are cretins [the cops, not the toddlers]

German cops don't seem to have the same level of ignorance:

http://www.dw.de/why-german-police-officers-rarely-reach-for-their-guns/a-17884779

YFlyer · 02-03-2015 11:30pm

jackofalltrades wrote: »

And were you armed when the drug addicts assaulted you?
Because unless you were then the two situations aren't comparable.

So you use all necessary means?

jackofalltrades · 02-03-2015 11:34pm

YFlyer wrote: »

So you use all necessary means?

What's that got to do with what I said?

Egginacup · 02-03-2015 11:34pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Ever tried to detain someone with severe mental issues with the adrenalin going they can be freakishly strong ? little different than a wasted punter. You have no idea what the guy was thinking he could have been seeing/fighting zombies for all you know.

Ever seen nurses in a care centre pull a fucking Glock on a disturbed and unhinged patient and blast 5 bullets into him?

darced · 02-03-2015 11:37pm

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YFlyer · 02-03-2015 11:37pm

jackofalltrades wrote: »

What's that got to do with what I said?

Because you asked Steadyeddy was he armed. Meaning that if he was that the outcome would have been different.

Manic Moran · 02-03-2015 11:38pm

darced wrote: »

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Really, really bad idea.

You are suggesting that he abandon his position of advantage, his ability to see just what the hell the people who outnumber him are doing, and then sit down and wait in the hope that the five-second-firefight which may happen isn't over in the sixty seconds it takes for a friend to show up?

Yeah... no.

SterlingArcher · 02-03-2015 11:40pm

"he's going for my gun" times 2.

"He has my gun, he has my gun"

He should have took the red pill. Giving him increased focus. Flipped backwards double tapped 2 officers. Then cartwheel shooting the rest.

Little CuChulainn · 02-03-2015 11:49pm

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Do you not know what it means? How would you train someone to overcome their adrenalin response? In fact, how would you identify their adrenalin response to a dangerous situation.

darced · 02-03-2015 11:50pm

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KwackerJack · 02-03-2015 11:51pm

He should have done this and he should have done that! Easy for us to say when were hiding begin a keyboard. Sure were all experts in the field!

If you have 6 cops on you the last thing you do id try to fight them!!

Of course the American sops are jittery...they walk around with a side arm while the ordinary joe soap has access to weapons designed for the Military.

Would you not be jittery knowing that you could be blow away buy some yobo a fully automatic weapon all because you stop him for a simple traffic violation

You can buy 5.56 Fully Auto Rifle in the states for €450...over here that would get you a Ruger 10/22!!!

SpaceSasqwatch · 02-03-2015 11:57pm

Thats a serious case of bad judgement.

Poor ba$tard.

Fukuyama · 03-03-2015 12:00am

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

They could have. And followed a pattern of behavior that indicated they did Ie. Reaching for waist despite repeated warnings while having a gun pointed at them. Unfortunately, police in the US don't issue the new Hindsight 20:20 RayBans.

If a cop is pointing a gun at you, regardless of who is right or wrong, you shut up and do what he or she says. You can work out the particulars later when everyone's calmed down.

If you're an idiot and decide to antagonize a person with a loaded weapon pointed at you, then I would argue that it's getting yourself shot as opposed to being shot.

In this situation it's not even like the junkie had a moral high ground. He was in a suspicious car, crawling around a bad area with fellow meth heads. The cop was just doing his damn job.

diomed · 03-03-2015 12:01am

KwackerJack wrote: »

You can buy 5.56 Fully Auto Rifle in the states for €450...over here that would get you a Ruger 10/22!!!

Very worrying. Very worrying that you know that.

KwackerJack · 03-03-2015 12:02am

diomed wrote: »

Very worrying. Very worrying that you know that.

It's called Google!

And I own a Ruger 10/22

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 12:03am

Sand wrote: »

Yup, people rushing to judgements and hysterical hyperbole with absolutely no idea of what happened. I'd have hoped the whole Ferguson case might have encouraged people to learn to wait and see what the evidence is, but I guess not.

In case you didn't know. People are not very patient with your "wait and see" proposal when there's no independent investigation. Just a "let the dust settle" and then whitewash, clearing all of any wrongdoing.

Rodney King was battered to within an inch of his life. All caught on camera and the thugs who took turns to batter him didn't so much as serve a second in jail. And that was nearly 25 years ago. You expect people to watch a homeless man getting shot dead and then "wait for an investigation"?
Wait for the "truth" to come out?

Are you serious?

jackofalltrades · 03-03-2015 12:03am

YFlyer wrote: »

Because you asked Steadyeddy was he armed. Meaning that if he was that the outcome would have been different.

I asked him was he armed because I'm assuming that he wasn't.
An assault involving guns is completely different from one where there are no guns involved.
Using your gun, to stop the other person getting it and killing you is always going to be a possibility.

steddyeddy · 03-03-2015 12:07am

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The Gardaí in Ireland have also shot and killed a number of people. And while it's all very good to point out that they regularly arrest people without shooting them, it's easy to forget that 10% of the force is injured every year so it is not an ideal situation by far.

So we improve the situation by bringing in guns? Would that result in less attacks on police?

Fukuyama · 03-03-2015 12:08am

Egginacup wrote: »

In case you didn't know. People are not very patient with your "wait and see" proposal when there's no independent investigation. Just a "let the dust settle" and then whitewash, clearing all of any wrongdoing.

Rodney King was battered to within an inch of his life. All caught on camera and the thugs who took turns to batter him didn't so much as serve a second in jail. And that was nearly 25 years ago. You expect people to watch a homeless man getting shot dead and then "wait for an investigation"?
Wait for the "truth" to come out?

Are you serious?

As opposed to what? Abandon all societal principals and go all ISIS on these cops?

Maybe they're totally in the right? The guy could have had the cops gun. Videos crappy and it's hard to see.

The recent Ferguson fiasco taught me a lesson - wait and see. Originally, I expected the outrage to be true - that a white cop had killed a defenseless, unarmed kid.

But what actually happened was that the kid was trying to rob a store and then rushed at a cop who tried to stop him, while his weapon was drawn. What did he expect to happen?

I'd have the same opinion whether the person is white, black, yellow, whatever. Charge a cop with a weapon pointed at you, expect to get shot. Otherwise you could grab weapon and kill the cop.

Fukuyama · 03-03-2015 12:09am

steddyeddy wrote: »

So we improve the situation by bringing in guns? Would that result in less attacks on police?

Who said that? You're setting up strawman arguments here.

Guns exist in America in a way they simply do not in Ireland. It's a different country and culture.

03-03-2015 12:09am

[QUOTE=Dean0088;

full video

.[/QUOTE]

To be honest I find this equally as shocking! just because he was crying over the bonnet of the car does'nt make a difference to me.

he walked up to a car with his hand on his weapon and said you making me nervous il ****in shoot you then shot them inside the car!!

Mabye that black cop was balling his eyes out after but he still someone who was handcuffed ,tazered and outnumbered 5 to 1!!

Little CuChulainn · 03-03-2015 12:10am

Egginacup wrote: »

In case you didn't know. People are not very patient with your "wait and see" proposal when there's no independent investigation. Just a "let the dust settle" and then whitewash, clearing all of any wrongdoing.

Rodney King was battered to within an inch of his life. All caught on camera and the thugs who took turns to batter him didn't so much as serve a second in jail. And that was nearly 25 years ago. You expect people to watch a homeless man getting shot dead and then "wait for an investigation"?
Wait for the "truth" to come out?

Are you serious?

Actually two of them spent 30 months in jail.

Little CuChulainn · 03-03-2015 12:10am

steddyeddy wrote: »

So we improve the situation by bringing in guns? Would that result in less attacks on police?

Where did I say that?

darkpagandeath · 03-03-2015 12:11am

Egginacup wrote: »

Ever seen nurses in a care centre pull a fucking Glock on a disturbed and unhinged patient and blast 5 bullets into him?

Eh why would they, The patient would not be armed or reaching for a gun.

steddyeddy · 03-03-2015 12:15am

Dean0088 wrote: »

Who said that? You're setting up strawman arguments here.

Guns exist in America in a way they simply do not in Ireland. It's a different country and culture.

Two posters referred to the increased likelihood of COPS having guns pulled on them in America and in turn the increased likelihood of COPS using guns to prevent being shot. It's time to face up to the fact that this "different culture" may be contributing to the trigger happy events becoming all too common.

YFlyer · 03-03-2015 12:15am

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I asked him was he armed because I'm assuming that he wasn't.
An assault involving guns is completely different from one where there are no guns involved.
Using your gun, to stop the other person getting it and killing you is always going to be a possibility.

Exactly. However Steddyeddy didn't need a gun to defend himself.

jackofalltrades · 03-03-2015 12:19am

YFlyer wrote: »

Exactly. However Steddyeddy didn't need a gun to defend himself.

Yeah because he's not a police officer working in an American city.

Fukuyama · 03-03-2015 12:20am

aaronc182 wrote: »

To be honest I find this equally as shocking! just because he was crying over the bonnet of the car does'nt make a difference to me.

he walked up to a car with his hand on his weapon and said you making me nervous il ****in shoot you then shot them inside the car!!

Mabye that black cop was balling his eyes out after but he still someone who was handcuffed ,tazered and outnumbered 5 to 1!!

The way I see this is that he informed the occupants that they were making him nervous, repeatedly (several damn times) told the guy to stop reaching for his waist, told him he'd shoot if he didn't stop and only after repeated further warnings did he shoot.

Think logically about it. He really didn't want to shoot him. But it's his job to stand there and keep an eye on these guys until backup arrives. He's not allowed to run away - it's not an option because

a) gives occupants times to get gun/hide drugs/get away
b) It's abandoning your post. It's not allowed and it's a career ending move (and illegal for a cop to do).

The fcuking meth head made a cop shoot him for no reason.

steddyeddy · 03-03-2015 12:25am

The second guy pulled a knife on me. I punched him hard, he fell down and ran until I made it out into Dame street. I didn't take him out or anything running saved my life there. I realise police can't really run and have to take out the threat to the public but they are far better trained than I am.

A lot of these cases don't involve people pointing guns at police they involved the police pointing guns they involve police using their weapons the minute they get nervous. It's not a good thing.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 12:26am

What was the killed man's name, anyway?

I'd like to know what his name was.

YFlyer · 03-03-2015 12:29am

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Yeah because he's not a police officer working in an American city.

Totally agree.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 12:34am

Dean0088 wrote: »

He really did not want to shoot him. He ordered him multiple times to put his hand away from his waist band and fired only after repeated warnings.

The car was suspicious and the occupants were known to cops. He very clearly is torn up over it - particularly the fact that the man was unarmed in the end. However it was a justified kill.

He isn't a coward. Not by any definition of the word. He had no ego or macho crap going on. He pulled over a suspicious vehicle, that's all. The occupant got himself shot.

If you were a cop and some junkie kept moving his hand towards his waistband, ignoring warnings, are you really going to wait until he produces whatever he might be reaching for in a dark car?

Cops are people too. They have families they want to see again. He made the right choice and it was obviously a difficult one for him to make.

No, it doesn't work like that. A cop only has the right to take a life when there is ABSOLUTELY NO ALTERNATIVE. When his or someone else's life is is danger. Making up excuses about "hands in belts" or "he could be high" do NOT qualify.

If a guy is holed up in a car or a house or he's running away or he's drunk and pissed off and screaming his head off doesn't pass muster.

You sit. You wait. You starve him out. You let him cry himself to sleep or run out of rage. That's why you are paid as a cop. You are not paid to kill someone because you don't have the patience or the brains to outsmart him.

steddyeddy · 03-03-2015 12:36am

Egginacup wrote: »

No, it doesn't work like that. A cop only has the right to take a life when there is ABSOLUTELY NO ALTERNATIVE. When his or someone else's life is is danger. Making up excuses about "hands in belts" or "he could be high" do NOT qualify.

If a guy is holed up in a car or a house or he's running away or he's drunk and pissed off and screaming his head off doesn't pass muster.

You sit. You wait. You starve him out. You let him cry himself to sleep or run out of rage. That's why you are paid as a cop. You are not paid to kill someone because you don't have the patience or the brains to outsmart him.

This. It's all a bit too reminiscent of South Park's hunters getting around animal protection laws by shouting "it's coming right for us!!!"

Little CuChulainn · 03-03-2015 12:37am

Egginacup wrote: »

No, it doesn't work like that. A cop only has the right to take a life when there is ABSOLUTELY NO ALTERNATIVE. When his or someone else's life is is danger. Making up excuses about "hands in belts" or "he could be high" do NOT qualify.

You seem to have a habit of presenting fabricated stuff as fact. You've yet to acknowledge your many inaccuracies so far in this thread, from misrepresenting me to outright factual inaccuracies. Cops in America do not work under the rules you claim they do.

steddyeddy · 03-03-2015 12:39am

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You seem to have a habit of presenting fabricated stuff as fact. You've yet to acknowledge your many inaccuracies so far in this thread, from misrepresenting me to outright factual inaccuracies. Cops in America do not work under the rules you claim they do.

Well they should because their actions here are barbaric and not illustrative of trained men.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 12:44am

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

They should really hire hardened warriors like yourself. Forged in the fires of action movies and armed with the Keyboard of Judgement. You cannot train someone to handle a situation like that. There is no way to predict how a person will react in a real life situation when the adrenalin starts pumping and the fight or flight reflex tries to take over. If you want people out there enforcing the law and putting themselves in dangerous situations then this is just something you have to accept.

Like I said earlier, it's funny how some nurses and social workers in a care centre can talk down a very large and violently unpredictable patient with mental problems and don't have to have guns to blow him or her away when they start acting erratically or screaming. Yet this sap of a cop has to just pull the trigger and you immediately side with him because he's "doing a dangerous job", yet barmen, ER staff, door-staff, taxi drivers etc are just as prone to the same kinds of unpredictable people and they don't need to pull a gun and waste someone because their life is in danger as these lame cops seems to believe 24/7

steddyeddy · 03-03-2015 12:49am

Egginacup wrote: »

Like I said earlier, it's funny how some nurses and social workers in a care centre can talk down a very large and violently unpredictable patient with mental problems and don't have to have guns to blow him or her away when they start acting erratically or screaming. Yet this sap of a cop has to just pull the trigger and you immediately side with him because he's "doing a dangerous job", yet barmen, ER staff, door-staff, taxi drivers etc are just as prone to the same kinds of unpredictable people and they don't need to pull a gun and waste someone because their life is in danger as these lame cops seems to believe 24/7

Not to mention prison guards. I think it's fair to say gun nut culture doesn't help the situation.

deco nate · 03-03-2015 12:50am

Jeezus, a lot of Airsofters in here know how to deal with this situation!

Holy budda!!!

deco nate · 03-03-2015 12:50am

Jeezus, a lot of Airsofters in here know how to deal with this situation!

Holy budda!!!

Little CuChulainn · 03-03-2015 12:51am

Egginacup wrote: »

Like I said earlier, it's funny how some nurses and social workers in a care centre can talk down a very large and violently unpredictable patient with mental problems and don't have to have guns to blow him or her away when they start acting erratically or screaming. Yet this sap of a cop has to just pull the trigger and you immediately side with him because he's "doing a dangerous job", yet barmen, ER staff, door-staff, taxi drivers etc are just as prone to the same kinds of unpredictable people and they don't need to pull a gun and waste someone because their life is in danger as these lame cops seems to believe 24/7

It's only funny because you ignore the main difference. Police have to confront these people, the others don't. They can fall back and ring for, you guessed it, the police.

steddyeddy · 03-03-2015 12:53am

deco nate wrote: »

Jeezus, a lot of Airsofters in here know how to deal with this situation!

Holy budda!!!

Well not in here but there are a lot of armed police in the world that deal with situations like this better than these cowards.

NachoBusiness · 03-03-2015 12:53am

What this incident did was show us that all these shootings have zero to do with race.

Such shootings are (and have always been) about class.. along of course, with the abuse of power.

YFlyer · 03-03-2015 12:53am

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's only funny because you ignore the main difference. Police have to confront these people, the others don't. They can fall back and ring for, you guessed it, the police.

Not when the. situation is eminent or acute.

Police Shoot and Kill Homeless Man

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