Police Shoot and Kill Homeless Man

true567

Nucular Arms wrote: »

Your statement was that people were sick of money being made off of sensalionalism surrounding the recent spate of police killings, the ironic part is that the you maintain that the same people then began buying sensalionalist t-shirts relating to same.



Since 2000, us police forces have killed very nearly as many us citizens as were killed on 9/11.

During this time the us government has installed a massive, illegal spying and monitoring program on their own citizens.

The us maintains an incarceration rate of its people that is the highest in the world by a huge margin, even bigger than communist china's.

A recently discovered secret domestic detention centre in chicago has been the site of illegal detention and interrogation practices, raising speculation of similar sites located around the country.

Yeah, none of that sounds vaguely suspect at all...

Number of police killings by itself means nothing. How many were wrongful death? That number may say more about unlawful citizens than poor policing. Same goes for incarceration rate- all that says is that Americans are more unlawful, nothing about policing.

And I agree that the NSA program is terrible but that has nothing to do with local cops.

And I cannot comment on the Chicago site because you did not cite.

true567

@diomed
Did you seriously just cite an article regarding an isolated incident in 1 U.S. city that happened more than 40 years ago and infer that it somehow corresponds to all current American police officers?

This event 40 years ago in 1 city proves the current U.S. state is a police state?

LOL- I literally did.

Manic Moran

diomed wrote: »

Very worrying. Very worrying that you know that.

Even more worrying, since that's not a legal sale. Due to artificial scarcity caused by the 1986 GCA, the going rate for a legal fully automatic 5.56mm is on the order of $12,000. $450 is more a black market price.

In the meantime...
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/02/us/los-angeles-police-shooting/index.html

The video includes enhanced audio to hear what the cops are yelling.

Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck defended the officers' actions.

"I think that this is an awful tragedy, but the officers took -- on the face of it -- reasonable steps to avoid it. Had the individual not grabbed the officer's pistol, certainly we would not be having this discussion," he told reporters.

Note also, two of the officers involved were wearing and had activated body cameras, which should also provide some reasonable footage.

diomed

true567 wrote: »

@diomed
Did you seriously just cite an article regarding an isolated incident in 1 U.S. city that happened more than 40 years ago and infer that it somehow corresponds to all current American police officers?

This event 40 years ago in 1 city proves the current U.S. state is a police state?

LOL- I literally did.

The Police Are Still Out of Control
I should know.
By FRANK SERPICO
October 23, 2014

I still get hate mail from active and retired police officers.
FRANK SERPICO

Little CuChulainn

Egginacup wrote: »

And if "these people" are so dangerous that they need to be shot dead then how come the workers that I mentioned not armed in the first place since waiting for a cop could be so hazardous? Can you answer that?

The answer is in the post you quoted. "Because police have to confront these people, the others don't". What you are asking is why do we not arm everyone in case they get attacked. Is this a genuine question or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

true567 wrote: »

A great idea would be to not resist against the cop(s). I have often fired back at cops with words but never physically, there is no reason to- especially not in this case as one can clearly see. Every time there is clear evidence that they resist their orders physically (yes, I mean when a black guy gets shot by a white cop). 2 years ago an American cop grabbed me from behind and literally threw me across a room while my shirt was clenched in his fist- I did nothing to him and after it answered his questions and was released from the situation. Although I had not done anything to begin with but a friend of a friend I was with was causing trouble- they were white and put in jail. However, someone like an Eric Gardner or Trayvon Martin or this guy would have done what I wanted to do in the moment and strike the guy in the face- its ridiculous that these are still stories and that people feel the need to make a thread about it. For the people who are so outraged, I suggest you go the states and work with the inner city kids or stop posting drivel every time this happens as if you were actually at the event. You just come off as trying to be holier than thou when in reality you are posting on a forum your sadness and frustrations (if even authentic) and probably not doing anything even related to helping out those in need with your career/volunteering (if applicable).

I am living in the states currently and I can breathe because I follow the law... They are currently selling shirts that say "I can breathe because I follow the law". Why? Because people are tired of the sensationalists making money of this and all of the fake concern that people like to put on (including posters here).

It's very easy to make a complaint or sue the police after the fact if you have done what they demanded. Not so easy if you have actively resisted. Many people seem to have difficulty understanding this.

foggy_lad wrote: »

just in case he came back to life!

He was still moving. That's why they pointed their guns back at him and cuffed him. Seriously, are people even watching the video?

threeball

true567 wrote: »

A great idea would be to not resist against the cop(s). I have often fired back at cops with words but never physically, there is no reason to- especially not in this case as one can clearly see. Every time there is clear evidence that they resist their orders physically (yes, I mean when a black guy gets shot by a white cop). 2 years ago an American cop grabbed me from behind and literally threw me across a room while my shirt was clenched in his fist- I did nothing to him and after it answered his questions and was released from the situation. Although I had not done anything to begin with but a friend of a friend I was with was causing trouble- they were white and put in jail. However, someone like an Eric Gardner or Trayvon Martin or this guy would have done what I wanted to do in the moment and strike the guy in the face- its ridiculous that these are still stories and that people feel the need to make a thread about it. For the people who are so outraged, I suggest you go the states and work with the inner city kids or stop posting drivel every time this happens as if you were actually at the event. You just come off as trying to be holier than thou when in reality you are posting on a forum your sadness and frustrations (if even authentic) and probably not doing anything even related to helping out those in need with your career/volunteering (if applicable).

I am living in the states currently and I can breathe because I follow the law... They are currently selling shirts that say "I can breathe because I follow the law". Why? Because people are tired of the sensationalists making money of this and all of the fake concern that people like to put on (including posters here).

Why are you claiming that Trayvon Martin attacks cops when he was accosted for no reason by a fcuking neighbour hood watch volunteer with a gun. I think most people would react badly in that situation, don't you? Only in America would they give a random numpty with a gun the licence to go out and play policeman at night and interfere in peoples lives as he saw fit.

DavidRamsay99

If the homeless man did indeed grab the officer's gun then it was a justified shooting. End of.

DavidRamsay99

threeball wrote: »

Why are you claiming that Trayvon Martin attacks cops when he was accosted for no reason by a fcuking neighbour hood watch volunteer with a gun. I think most people would react badly in that situation, don't you? Only in America would they give a random numpty with a gun the licence to go out and play policeman at night and interfere in peoples lives as he saw fit.

Martin was shot when he was straddling and began beating George Zimmerman's head off the concrete. Zimmerman feared for his life and reached for his gun and opened fire. It was a justified homicide.

Egginacup

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I doubt very much if this guy was blubbing out of any sympathy for his victim. He's blubbing because he was scared sh1tless and now he's coming down from the initial shock.

Egginacup

Dean0088 wrote: »

They could have. And followed a pattern of behavior that indicated they did Ie. Reaching for waist despite repeated warnings while having a gun pointed at them. Unfortunately, police in the US don't issue the new Hindsight 20:20 RayBans.

If a cop is pointing a gun at you, regardless of who is right or wrong, you shut up and do what he or she says. You can work out the particulars later when everyone's calmed down.

If you're an idiot and decide to antagonize a person with a loaded weapon pointed at you, then I would argue that it's getting yourself shot as opposed to being shot.

In this situation it's not even like the junkie had a moral high ground. He was in a suspicious car, crawling around a bad area with fellow meth heads. The cop was just doing his damn job.

"They could have". Anyone pulled over in Ireland "could have" a gun. Do you see Gardai screaming at motorists "not to Fcuking move! Hands where I can see them!"

If "they could have" is your excuse for opening fire at every opportunity then it's time to rid the force of these fools who let their imaginations get the better of them and start screening for cucumber cool men and women who don't watch much television and certainly don't watch action movies. Preferably people with decent IQ's. People who easily pass psychological tests that weed out anybody who has any penchant for racism, mysoginy, animal cruelty, superstition, corruption, etc.

DavidRamsay99

CCTV footage from a different angle supports the version of events that the LAPD were trying subdue the suspect who was dealing drugs, they tased him and he continued struggling before he tried to grab an officer's weapon. Justified.

dbit

No one on earth posses the right to execute another no matter the surrounding circumstances any one who thinks otherwise is just a scumbag with a god complex.

dbit

dbit wrote: »

No one on earth posses the right to execute another no matter the surrounding circumstances any one who thinks otherwise is just a scumbag with a god complex.

ED209 on the other hand , i supose you get whats coming to you .

DavidRamsay99

dbit wrote: »

No one on earth posses the right to execute another no matter the surrounding circumstances any one who thinks otherwise is just a scumbag with a god complex.

The guy was not executed. He tried to grab an officer's gun and was shot.

Egginacup

Dean0088 wrote: »

As opposed to what? Abandon all societal principals and go all ISIS on these cops?

Maybe they're totally in the right? The guy could have had the cops gun. Videos crappy and it's hard to see.

The recent Ferguson fiasco taught me a lesson - wait and see. Originally, I expected the outrage to be true - that a white cop had killed a defenseless, unarmed kid.

But what actually happened was that the kid was trying to rob a store and then rushed at a cop who tried to stop him, while his weapon was drawn. What did he expect to happen?

I'd have the same opinion whether the person is white, black, yellow, whatever. Charge a cop with a weapon pointed at you, expect to get shot. Otherwise you could grab weapon and kill the cop.

Excuse me but the encounter with the cop had nothing to do with the incident at the store. So please stop trying to muddy the waters with that. I don't know if Brown tried to rush the cop. It's possible. Although witnesses say otherwise. Brown was shot in the top of his head which means he was on all fours when that bullet hit him....at least that's the opinion of medical examiners. I'm not going to get sidetracked by that case. The very fact that they wouldn't even indict the cop was a travesty. If he was so innocent and telling the truth, a trial with all the evidence in plain sight would have been just a formality. Of course some who don't want to take that risk will bleat about taxpayers money, as if they suddenly have a concern for joe public's wallet.

If you're such a fan of 'wait and see' then shouldn't the same thing apply to the cops in the first place instead of the knee-jerk, lack of patience that they display day in and day out with their public dealings. Cops just blaze away without "waiting to see" what the situation involves. They raid houses, open fire on guys with walking sticks, and god knows what.
And all I ever hear from apologists are these fantasy, hollywood excuses like "they only have a split second to react" or "the perp could be high" or "the suspect could have been reaching for an Uzi in his rucksack. How was the cop to know that the kid sitting on the park bench was rummaging around in his backpack for his water bottle?"

dbit

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

The guy was not executed. He tried to grab an officer's gun and was shot.

You're funny , Off with you and your belief system , i reject it and replace it with my own . They murdered that man plain and simple he was most likely reaching for anything he could grip while under the influence of three tazer sessions . let me see you stand and not move a muscle after three shots of that . numpties.

DavidRamsay99

Egginacup wrote: »

Excuse me but the encounter with the cop had nothing to do with the incident at the store. So please stop trying to muddy the waters with that. I don't know if Brown tried to rush the cop. It's possible. Although witnesses say otherwise. Brown was shot in the top of his head which means he was on all fours when that bullet hit him....at least that's the opinion of medical examiners. I'm not going to get sidetracked by that case. The very fact that they wouldn't even indict the cop was a travesty. If he was so innocent and telling the truth, a trial with all the evidence in plain sight would have been just a formality. Of course some who don't want to take that risk will bleat about taxpayers money, as if they suddenly have a concern for joe public's wallet.

If you're such a fan of 'wait and see' then shouldn't the same thing apply to the cops in the first place instead of the knee-jerk, lack of patience that they display day in and day out with their public dealings. Cops just blaze away without "waiting to see" what the situation involves. They raid houses, open fire on guys with walking sticks, and god knows what.
And all I ever hear from apologists are these fantasy, hollywood excuses like "they only have a split second to react" or "the perp could be high" or "the suspect could have been reaching for an Uzi in his rucksack. How was the cop to know that the kid sitting on the park bench was rummaging around in his backpack for his water bottle?"

Brown beat the officer and tried to take his gun.
The officer would not be doing his job if he did not try to arrest him after he was attacked.
Brown charged him and the officer opened fire.
Justified.
The evidence backed up the officer's story.
Witnesses who claimed that Brown had his hands in the air when he was shot have been totally discredited.
End of.

Egginacup

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Actually two of them spent 30 months in jail.

You're correct. I'd forgotten that Koon was actually sentenced. I thought his time spent was on remand.

dbit

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

Brown beat the officer and tried to take his gun.
The officer would not be doing his job if he did not try to arrest him after he was attacked.
Brown charged him and the officer opened fire.
Justified.
The evidence backed up the officer's story.
Witnesses who claimed that Brown had his hands in the air when he was shot have been totally discredited.
End of.

End of, lol i know what id like to see you on the end of , Hopefully you will never have to enconuter such a foul abuse of public service as did Africa !

He was not beating any cop he was on the ground surrounded by 5 cops and shot dead. The start of the clip clearly shows this poor man being punched into the face repeatedly and then tazzered folowed by an execution , your one sad bean im telling ya .

Little CuChulainn

Egginacup wrote: »

"They could have". Anyone pulled over in Ireland "could have" a gun. Do you see Gardai screaming at motorists "not to Fcuking move! Hands where I can see them!"

Yes I've seen it quite a few times. Be honest, have you ever actually witnessed a traffic stop in a rough area?

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

Brown beat the officer and tried to take his gun.
The officer would not be doing his job if he did not try to arrest him after he was attacked.
Brown charged him and the officer opened fire.
Justified.
The evidence backed up the officer's story.
Witnesses who claimed that Brown had his hands in the air when he was shot have been totally discredited.
End of.

I guarantee that same poster would have been on calling for the officers head if he had let Brown go and Brown had robbed someone else. Some people can never be satisfied and always have to be on the opposing side.

Little CuChulainn

Egginacup wrote: »

You're correct. I'd forgotten that Koon was actually sentenced. I thought his time spent was on remand.

So not only was it not brushed under the carpet as you claimed but the officers were actually prosecuted twice and two of them received jail sentences.

DavidRamsay99

dbit wrote: »

End of, lol i know what id like to see you on the end of , Hopefully you will never have to enconuter such a foul abuse of public service as did Africa !

He was not beating any cop he was on the ground surrounded by 5 cops and shot dead. The start of the clip clearly shows this poor man being punched into the face repeatedly and then tazzered folowed by an execution , your one sad bean im telling ya .

The CCTV footage clearly shows Africa dealing drugs and then beating a man.
The cops turn up and talk to him, he then disappears into his tent, they haul him out, he fights them, they taze him and the cell phone videos shows him still struggling and grabbing for an officer's gun and they are forced to shoot him.

Justified.

Egginacup

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Eh why would they, The patient would not be armed or reaching for a gun.

Exactly. But the argument was that it's so impossible to restrain someone with mental difficulties that the cops have to taser or shoot him.

You're going round in circles. Someone said "Why couldn't 5 or 6 cops restrain 1 man?", some other dreamer said "he might have been ON something" (the usual catch all excuse). I said "two bouncers can restrain a coked up punter", someone said "a drunk is different to someone who's mentally unhinged".

I said "a couple of nurses in a care home can calm down distressed patient twice their size"

Then you chime in with the glib "a patient wouldn't be armed".

Was Eric Garner armed? Was the old man in Florida armed? Was Patel in Alabama armed when then slammed him to the ground and broke his back and paralysed him?

Quite frankly it's fruitless trying to talk sense or reason to you.

Egginacup

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You seem to have a habit of presenting fabricated stuff as fact. You've yet to acknowledge your many inaccuracies so far in this thread, from misrepresenting me to outright factual inaccuracies. Cops in America do not work under the rules you claim they do.

You're damn right they don't. In fact I don't see them adhere to any rules at all.

DavidRamsay99

Egginacup wrote: »

Exactly. But the argument was that it's so impossible to restrain someone with mental difficulties that the cops have to taser or shoot him.

You're going round in circles. Someone said "Why couldn't 5 or 6 cops restrain 1 man?", some other dreamer said "he might have been ON something" (the usual catch all excuse). I said "two bouncers can restrain a coked up punter", someone said "a drunk is different to someone who's mentally unhinged".

I said "a couple of nurses in a care home can calm down distressed patient twice their size"

Then you chime in with the glib "a patient wouldn't be armed".

Was Eric Garner armed? Was the old man in Florida armed? Was Patel in Alabama armed when then slammed him to the ground and broke his back and paralysed him?

Quite frankly it's fruitless trying to talk sense or reason to you.

You insist on arguing about the Brown case, the Garner case and this latest case when the evidence exonerated the cops involved.

If you are going to make claims of unjustified killings and murder you have to have EVIDENCE.

You cannot convict someone and bang them up in prison on your uninformed opinion.

dbit

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

You insist on arguing about the Brown case, the Garner case and this latest case when the evidence exonerated the cops involved.

If you are going to make claims of unjustified killings and murder you have to have EVIDENCE.

You cannot convict someone and bang them up in prison on your uninformed opinion.

But you can shoot people willy nilly , it must be an absolute utopia inside your head.

DavidRamsay99

dbit wrote: »

But you can shoot people willy nilly , it must be an absolute utopia inside your head.

Brown attacked the police officer and tried to take his gun and then charged the police offcer and was shot
Martin was shot after he tried to beat Zimmerman's head off the concrete.
Garner died because he was obese.
Africa died because he tried to grab an officer's gun and was shot.

karma_

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

Brown attacked the police officer and tried to take his gun and then charged the police offcer and was shot
Martin was shot after he tried to beat Zimmerman's head off the concrete.
Garner died because he was obese.
Africa died because he tried to grab an officer's gun and was shot.

It never ceases to amaze me that there are people out there, like David here who find it within themselves to defend the indefensible.

Caovyn Lineah

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

The CCTV footage clearly shows Africa dealing drugs and then beating a man.
The cops turn up and talk to him, he then disappears into his tent, they haul him out, he fights them, they taze him and the cell phone videos shows him still struggling and grabbing for an officer's gun and they are forced to shoot him.

Justified.

I completely agree with David here.

This was a drug dealer who had no issue assaulting a man on the street, tries to attack POLICE OFFICERS and then tries to take one of their guns.

It was either his life or one of the officers, common sense prevailed in this instance thank god.

karma_

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

I completely agree with David here.

This was a drug dealer who had no issue assaulting a man on the street, tries to attack POLICE OFFICERS and then tries to take one of their guns.

It was either his life or one of the officers, common sense prevailed in this instance thank god.

Come off it, it's not justice leaving a man dead on the street which could have easily been prevented. I've watched the video and it was an abject failure on their part that 6 officers could not peaceably or even with the use of tazers subdue one individual.