Western Rail Corridor (Galway-Limerick section)

From that Irish Times article:

Alan Kelly wrote:

The numbers aren’t what we would like. I have spoken to the chief executive of Irish Rail with a view to looking at various different strategies to encourage more to use the line.

Isn't this the same line we heard last year and the year before, and will keep hearing until eventually someone shouts stop.

They're probably telling IE to make things better, but are giving them no extra money to do it. In that case, nothing will improve.

westtip wrote: »

In truth and for once in defense of a politician I hardly think we can blame Alan Kelly or Leo Varadkar - they simply inherited the mess and one thing is for sure they are not going to throw good money after bad and Varadkar for sure is not about to sign off on any further extensions of the WRC north of Athenry. I think Kellys call to IE to try and improve things is a bit of spin, he knows the way it is, he knows its design its own downfall, he knows its weaknesses; he knows its doomed to failure because those who campaigned for it got what they asked for - reopening of an old alignment that was never going to deliver......I think all this might have already been said though.......

That Alan Kelly is telling IE to come up with a plan for a chronically loss making line is hilarious. On its worst day Galway-Limerick must still do better than Ballybrophy branch.

dowlingm wrote: »

That Alan Kelly is telling IE to come up with a plan for a chronically loss making line is hilarious. On its worst day Galway-Limerick must still do better than Ballybrophy branch.

funny it may be but to be honest if i was in his situation trying to save a local line in my constituency from closing then thats what i'd be doing. galway limerick is to slow and meandering and expensive, limmerick ballybroaphy has been deliberately ran down over 40 or more years to the point where even though new rail has been layed along part of it its still to slow, it will close so will limerick waterford, infact probably others will go before the political line between ennis and athenry

end of the road wrote: »

funny it may be but to be honest if i was in his situation trying to save a local line in my constituency from closing then thats what i'd be doing.

We will never be done with clientelism while politicians think that their votes hang on opinions like yours. The difference is that during the last recession IE didn't have Aircoach, Citylink et al poised to capitalise on every millstone the politicians refuse to let the company cast off.

I'm not saying lift the line but it should immediately enter a South Wexford style regime. With IE off the route AK could then ask the NTA to seek additional frequencies on the M7 from the bus lines including a commuter option from Roscrea to Limerick - a better result from his constituents than the duplication leaving Nenagh around 0730 at present.

eastwest wrote: »

The problem is the fixation with rail as a transport solution. When you think about it, rail is a technology that developed before the ICE, when roads were poor and there weren't any cars or buses.
That's not saying that rail doesn't have a future, or a use. It works well where populations are concentrated and railways speed people past traffic congestion. It doesn't have a role where populations are thin and scattered; a bus will give a far better service to a population like this, and without the heavy subsidy and capital cost of rail.

Yes this is the crux of the matter, I go back to my O'level history and study of the industrial revolution the flow chart went something like this

Horse and Carts > Canal revolution> Railway revolution > Henry Ford.

Of course the Railways haven't been replaced by Road. Moving high volumes of commuters, or very fast intercity/interurban movement from large population centres to other large population centres quickly is critical rail infrastructure. In Ireland its all about good rail services to Dublin. Rural rail lines through dispersed population centres or even to small towns in the country over relatively short distances are not the way to go. The rural branch lines were closed for a reason, and the reason remains valid in not re-opening - the great experiment of re-opening the rural branch line of Ennis/Athenry has proven this. It happened. It didn't work. Lets move on and do something different.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Is there any proof of this that can be put in front of a court? if not then it really belongs in conspiracy theories.

The Indo hasn't found those tapes yet

According to the Galway Independent, IE are to make further attempts to improve the uptake of Galway->Limerick. Referring to the NTA report, their spokesperson said:

Iarnrod Eireann wrote:

While the report outlines certain restrictions, such as the route alignment and the amount of level crossings which are not easily addressed, we will examine service offering, and scheduling issues raised, and have already removed car park charges at some stations. Online booking on the route will be introduced shortly.

However our local MEP is not impressed:

Jim Higgins, MEP wrote:

Why would you not allow people to book a train online? I believe Irish Rail are doing everything they can to keep passenger numbers down and eventually close the rail line.

I was promised in October last year that something would be done in the first part of 2013. Nothing has happened since. I simply do not believe Irish Rail want to introduce online booking for people in the West. The excuse Irish Rail gave me is that the trains are not suited to online booking. I think this is absolute rubbish.

Now leaving out the bit about not allowing online booking for "people in the West" (we can book Dublin-bound trains Jim!), I don't think introducing online booking will remove the biggest complaints about the service which were that it was "slow, infrequent and costly". Online booking might reduce the cost (very) slightly, but not by much, I would imagine, without drastically increasing the subsidy needed.

In relation to speed and frequency, they have only said they will "examine" the service offering and schedule, with the caveats about level crossings etc. built in.

serfboard wrote: »

'Twill be interesting to see how this does. A 300 space car park is a big advantage, though as this will be operated by the County Council, I doubt it will be free. Add in the cost of the journey (8.60 return, cheaper obviously if you're using commuter tickets) and it could make it dear enough.

However, it's got good timetabling around peak hours (arriving 8:10, 8:35 and 9:25, leaving at 17:20, 17:50, 18:10 and 18:40) and it's quick (most journeys 10 minutes or less) so it will be handy if you're working in town.

Ballybrit/Parkmore/Mervue (i.e. major industrial areas) commuters will continue to drive, take the bus or cycle.

When will we stop kidding ourselves and realise Galway is a large town in real terms compared to other urban areas in Europe. A large town will not support this commuter service - because to put it bluntly there aren't enough people in the hinterland to justify it making the journey in and out everyday on rail services, this is where the whole WRC thing falls down: Demographics. This new station whilst nice to see in place will operate massively under capacity because of lack of demand not web based ticketing being available and agree with the above those in Ballybrit etc will stay just as they are.

wonder88 wrote: »

The fare from Oranmore to city is expensive enough. You would think IE would bring in an introductory price of say 3euro and 5 return to try and get people used to the service. The price they are charging does not compare well to fares on Dart and Dublin commuter trains.

Realistically I'd say IE are looking for Oranmore-Dublin/Limerick traffic a lot more than they are Oranmore-Galway traffic - many of these will be shifts of people who currently have to make their way into town or Athenry to pick up a preferred service. There are rationales of how IE charge fares with respect to express rather than stopping routes etc. You either accept them or you don't, it's not unique to Galway.

petronius - it is surely fair to say now that 106m in capital (plus costs expended after opening) and several million in operating losses later it's time for the proWRC side to take stock and stop blaming the boogeymen in Dublin for everything. Negativity can impact a service but not to that degree so eventually you have to say "there are reasons people aren't taking the service". Some of it, to be sure, is from the IE side but some of it is quite simply a lack of interest from the catchment coupled to the economic crisis which has reduced total transport demand below even the worst case in the laughable business cases used to get this line built.

The X51 bus, introduced by BE five months after the Ennis-Athenry section reopened is slaughtering the Limerick-Galway service because it is timetabled for 1h20m with the additional ability to pick up the Friday/Sunday student trade at GMIT, UL and LIT. The WRC types blamed the rolling stock but 22Ks have been put on some links and it hasn't made much if any difference. A quick look at a map would tell you Tuam faces much the same challenges as Ennis-Galway - a direct 35km road route facing an 53km L shaped rail route.

At one point the Limerick-Galway rail offering did hit 7 rotations per direction per day which is a damn sight more than Limerick Junction-Waterford gets on weekdays and 100% more than they get on Sundays when the line is closed - ironically the Limerick-Waterford line were it to be aggressively timetabled could actually beat its bus counterpart given that they run more or less in parallel, unlike the Galway rail wandering off east to Athenry and given the relative lack of investment in the N24 compared to the N18. But when the first cut comes, the Wesht will schream the loudesht and the weeds will sprout in Cahir, Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir.

As it stands, the WRC losses aren't split out within IE's public books, but it's already known that if IE is obliged to split into infrastructure and operating divisions then the charges the operating side will have to absorb on the lightly patronised lines will not be swept under the rug so easily. Then the fat will be in the fire in earnest - and not just in the West.

Mullingar to Athlone should be reopened and have a mullingar to galway service

The reason the L shaped route Tuam Galway or ennis galway have issues is the stop at athenry and time it takes
If it is an efficient service and the schedules dovetail then it shouldn't be an issue.
Assuming on a tuam line is not direct to galway and either goes to ennis and you board a galway commuter line

Sure students will seek a cheaper option but if there is a discounted student weekly or monthly ticket - or 10 journey tickets which make it competitive then people will use it.

Tourists many see rail travel as a way to see the country - and many i the west dont want to sit on a cramped bus or hire a car
Another type of tourist is the cycle tourist and they may wish to say bring bikes on the train and this is a facility often forgotten by irish rail

I think if i was doing business in galway city it would be nicer to get a train say from ennis, limerick or waterford to glaway city centre and have time on board to email etc. than drive.

Motorways are fine where appropriate, but not everyone has a car or wants to use one and cars do have a larger carbon footprint than the same number of people travelling by train.

corktina wrote: »

yes but you could say the same for every line in the country. What is so special about this line that it should get preferential treatment? If they reduced prices and it failed (which it would imo) then what effect would that have on the rest of the system that has to carry that loss? One line already closed to provide resources for the WRC (a line BETTER patronised too)...are more to be sacrificed for the WRC?

with that line of thought shut down all CIE operations that are loss making then.

eastwest wrote: »

Certainly no harm in trying a few long shots, but at an average eight passengers per train, and with an undefined number of those paid for from the public purse, this line looks to just be too far off viability to survive.
The best that a good marketing campaign and a better online presence might do would be to double or treble passenger numbers, and that amount of growth could best be described as unprecedented. But if this growth was achieved by lowering fares, the problem wouldn't have changed much.
The mistake that was made was in government listening to wishful economics from a well-connected lobby group. They built a line in the wrong place, simply because the alignment was there, and nobody wanted to use it.
No amount of moving the deckchairs around will change the fact that the ship is holed below the waterline.

at least someone read my posts and understands what i said. Yes the previous goverment had made lots of a mistakes and i'm sure they will be back in again to make some more. but the line is built now and substantial money thrown at it, so they won't close it any time in the near future. those previous posters can do all the bashing shouting and whatever agenda they have to close it down all they want.

I was just posting a fresh approach to see if they change the drop in numbers. Leo is doing a deal for truck drivers and would be interested to see the result of his experiment. And they same should be done for the WRC and there are people there along that line and those that would use that line from the dublin galway route that want to go to limerick etc so don't give me that, people are there but the prices are stupid and no online fares.

such negative crap being posted it rather unreal. no doubt they are the minions to revive the previous administration.