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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭bambergbike


    eastwest wrote: »
    Germany, France, the UK etc have a lot of cycle trails on disused railways, and these are popular because they are not on roads.

    I haven't cycled much in France or the UK. I live in rural Germany. The local cycling network makes very extensive use of country roads and has a few VERY heavily-used river and canal greenways that make up a huge proportion of the local economy. It also features a few trails on disused railway embankments - I use those when I want to cover distance efficiently without meeting any tourists!!! The river routes bring in vast numbers of tourists, the rail routes are insignificant.
    corktina wrote: »
    the idea of Greenways is to have a safe traffic-free route. "Fairly quiet country roads" do not acheive this.

    We need no-traffic routes AND low-traffic routes. No-traffic routes that are safe enough for a two-year old to use, low-traffic routes for cyclists who are confident riding on the roads, but don't want to spend their holidays ploughing through traffic. And we can have both: greenways are worth the investment, and low-traffic routes are very cheap. There is no either/or. We can market "greenway" cycling holidays along the Shannon or the Great Western Greenway or around Lough Corrib AND we can market cycling holidays for the more adventurous type of cyclist who wants to test himself or herself on country roads between the Mamore Gap and the Connor Pass (or simply cruise along them on an e-bike).

    I'm not disputing that we need a (few?) thousand kilometres of traffic-free greenways. Maybe we even need to put one of them on the WRC, although I can think of more promising places to start (the Shannon, the Corrib, extensions to the existing greenways). But we also need a national cycling network which is over ten thousand kilometres long. Tourists should be able to check into accomodation anywhere in the country and pick up a local cycling map with 400 kilometres of properly way-marked, themed, marketable, safe, interesting cycling routes that will keep them engaged for a week.

    We cannot cater for that demand solely by building greenways. We cannot afford ten thousand kilometres of greenways. And even if we could, the result would still not be a network serving all cyclists, or even all tourist cyclists. A 10 000 km tourist cycling network incorporating an initial 1000 km of greenways and another 9000 km of green roads would make more sense.

    When I cycle to my sister's house (also in rural Germany) at the weekend, I will avoid the greenways along the Main and Wern rivers. On a summer weekend, I would have to slow down every hundred yards, ring my bell and cautiously overtake typical greenway users: tourist cyclists with heavy baggage cycling three abreast, dog walkers, nordic walkers, small children learning to cycle, people out for a stroll pushing granny's wheelchair, horse riders and so on. It gets tedious after the first ten miles, and I have further than that to go, so I will cycle on quiet country roads instead, and I will be grateful for the cyclist signage that makes it possible for me to find them without a map.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    ha, ring your bell here and you'd probably end up IN the river!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    "Naomh wrote:
    From reading the other posts here it seems to me that the motivation for the Sligo Mayo greenway campaigners is to stop the Western Rail Corridor at all costs, and that the Greenway idea is a useful stick to beat West on Track and local councillors with.
    I don't think that's quite true. I'm in favour of a greenway on the route although you couldn't describe me as a campaigner, so I read what everybody has to say about it, both here and elsewhere. The consistent thread running through much of the pro-greenway campaigning seems to be pro-greenway but not at the expense of rail. I have seen pleas to put a greenway on the track in order to protect the route from land-grabbers, and this makes a lot of sense to me. Another common thread is the eventual (assuming that a railway is ever built) use of a parallel greenway.
    Hardly anti-rail, is it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    consistently it has been said on here and elsewhere with photo back-up from other countries,....a rail line and a greenway can exist happily side by side.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,264 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Maybe you should ring Joe Duffy, infiltration of county councils by morally bankrupt organisations ruined this country before and can't be allowed happen again. If you have very clear evidence of this then perhaps its time to go national?

    I don't like the sarcasm and the evidence is clear to see. It's been demonstrated here (for example) for years.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 Naomh Eanna


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    I don't like the sarcasm and the evidence is clear to see. It's been demonstrated here (for example) for years.

    That Hitler video you described as "light hearted" was a bit nasty and sarcastic to be honest.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,264 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Some great and clear thinking in that last post. From reading the other posts here it seems to me that the motivation for the Sligo Mayo greenway campaigners is to stop the Western Rail Corridor at all costs, and that the Greenway idea is a useful stick to beat West on Track and local councillors with.

    Brendan Quinns opposition to the WRC goes back to at least 2006 when he wrote to The Irish Times to complain about the cost of the WRC. Back then he was advocating spending the money on motorways. Along the way we have seen cancer care in the west, gas pipelines, fibre optic links and now a greenway for the old railway track. Originally the greenway was to be on the Collooney-Claremorris section but now he wants the whole section right down to Athenry to be a greenway. One can only speculate that his motivation is partly driven by hatred of West on Track as can be seen by the promotion of the Adolf Hitler downfall parody and the constant sniping at West on Track and local councillors here.

    Safe cycle routes using a sensible mixture of roads and former railway and canal routes is to my mind the right and cost effective thing to do. I do not think for one minute that there are hoards of "tired hungry tourists" aching for a greenway in North Mayo, but a safe network of cycle friendly roads would be a great start for ourselves here.

    If the WRC is to succeed we need to follow the example of Midleton where targeted development encouraged a critical mass where a railway became feasible. If Mayo is serious about developing the WRC then they need to have a strategy where development is targeted around the towns lying on the WRC so a critical mass is in place to justify rail services.

    The paranoia is astounding! The WRC doesn't need a Greenway campaign to kill it off and there are many other far superior sticks to beat WOT/local councillors with, based on hard economic fact.

    Brendan Quinn isn't the first to be publically critical of the WRC. What about Thomas Sheridan and Derek Wheeler of Platform 11 in 2004. If I'm not mistaken they were probably the first to publically express opposition and all based on economic reasons. They too were accused of hatred of WOT, sabotage of the West of Ireland and being Dublin 4 based. The vitriol that poured out from WRC supporters was shameful. Your use of the word hatred demonstrates to me that you believe anyone who disagrees with WOT etc. are consumed by hatred and ill will against them. That is a wild speculation and in some situations was a wild accusation. Furthermore WOT are fair game for sniping at along with local councillors. However your definition of sniping is someone else's definition of disagreeing.

    As for the Greenway, there may or may not be thousands of tired and hungry cyclists aching for a greenway, but there sure as hell aren't thousands of people aching for a rail service. WOT refuse to accept defeat and are now trying to move the goalposts by shifting the blame for failure onto someone else. But they are fully responsible along with politicians for promoting the first great fail rail project in 21st century Ireland. The recent NTA report is hysterical when one considers the ideas put forward to improve ridership figures on the operational section of the WRC. It is blatantly obvious that WOT played a role in instigating it at a cost to the tax payer. Their contribution to it was desperate and devoid of realistic ideas to increase the figures because there is nothing that can be done.
    If the WRC is to succeed we need to follow the example of Midleton where targeted development encouraged a critical mass where a railway became feasible. If Mayo is serious about developing the WRC then they need to have a strategy where development is targeted around the towns lying on the WRC so a critical mass is in place to justify rail services

    :rolleyes: This is absolute desperation to try and prove your argument. First of all, that should have been the approach 30 years ago. It should also have come into the equation when WOT arrived on the scene. It should have been the answer WOT got from the Government in 2003 post the SRR. None of this happened. The first stage was sanctioned in hope and appeasement rather than any form of economic appraisal. But now you want targeted development to build critical mass.:rolleyes: More goalpost moving.

    Now for the best bit. Even if we have tonnes of cash and critical mass all over Mayo and Sligo, that meandering rail line from at least Tuam northwards would not be up to the job because it was poorly built in the first place and would never ever compete with the road option. Don't you get this? Have you seen the line? Don't you understand that the recent NTA report highlighted what many of us already know? The initial build quality of the WRC will never allow an upgrade that permits speeds high enough to offer competitive journey times. We invested 100 odd million in reopening a turkey. The rest of the route is even worse. This is all verifiable fact and yet WOT and their supporters continue to do a three monkeys act.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,264 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    That Hitler video you described as "light hearted" was a bit nasty and sarcastic to be honest.

    What planet are you on? Nasty? There you go again using language in an effort to damage someones credibility and standing. There is nothing nasty about that video. Its funny to some and not funny to others. It is absolutely light hearted and directs no malice or offense to any particular named individual.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    The paranoia is astounding! The WRC doesn't need a Greenway campaign to kill it off and there are many other far superior sticks to beat WOT/local councillors with, based on hard economic fact.

    Brendan Quinn isn't the first to be publically critical of the WRC. What about Thomas Sheridan and Derek Wheeler of Platform 11 in 2004. If I'm not mistaken they were probably the first to publically express opposition and all based on economic reasons. They too were accused of hatred of WOT, sabotage of the West of Ireland and being Dublin 4 based. The vitriol that poured out from WRC supporters was shameful. Your use of the word hatred demonstrates to me that you believe anyone who disagrees with WOT etc. are consumed by hatred and ill will against them. That is a wild speculation and in some situations was a wild accusation. Furthermore WOT are fair game for sniping at along with local councillors. However your definition of sniping is someone else's definition of disagreeing.

    As for the Greenway, there may or may not be thousands of tired and hungry cyclists aching for a greenway, but there sure as hell aren't thousands of people aching for a rail service. WOT refuse to accept defeat and are now trying to move the goalposts by shifting the blame for failure onto someone else. But they are fully responsible along with politicians for promoting the first great fail rail project in 21st century Ireland. The recent NTA report is hysterical when one considers the ideas put forward to improve ridership figures on the operational section of the WRC. It is blatantly obvious that WOT played a role in instigating it at a cost to the tax payer. Their contribution to it was desperate and devoid of realistic ideas to increase the figures because there is nothing that can be done.



    :rolleyes: This is absolute desperation to try and prove your argument. First of all, that should have been the approach 30 years ago. It should also have come into the equation when WOT arrived on the scene. It should have been the answer WOT got from the Government in 2003 post the SRR. None of this happened. The first stage was sanctioned in hope and appeasement rather than any form of economic appraisal. But now you want targeted development to build critical mass.:rolleyes: More goalpost moving.

    Now for the best bit. Even if we have tonnes of cash and critical mass all over Mayo and Sligo, that meandering rail line from at least Tuam northwards would not be up to the job because it was poorly built in the first place and would never ever compete with the road option. Don't you get this? Have you seen the line? Don't you understand that the recent NTA report highlighted what many of us already know? The initial build quality of the WRC will never allow an upgrade that permits speeds high enough to offer competitive journey times. We invested 100 odd million in reopening a turkey. The rest of the route is even worse. This is all verifiable fact and yet WOT and their supporters continue to do a three monkeys act.

    Whereas the core people in WOT probably believe their own propaganda about a railway on this route, the councillors on the ICRC probably don't, but think that this is where the votes are. I find it hard to ascribe any other motive to councillors who not only stand idly by while the route is being whittled away, but also support planning applications for houses where driveways block the line.
    The ideal scenario for politicians is that neither option is delivered. In that way they can keep the votes of the rail supporters, tell the greenway supporters that theirs is a great idea that just needs work, and keep the dozens of squatters happy as well.
    Politics, Irish style!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,682 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    corktina wrote: »
    consistently it has been said on here and elsewhere with photo back-up from other countries,....a rail line and a greenway can exist happily side by side.

    Could exist , cos whatever chance the greenway has, the railway has none( for the foreseeable future) ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,264 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    eastwest wrote: »
    The ideal scenario for politicians is that neither option is delivered. In that way they can keep the votes of the rail supporters, tell the greenway supporters that theirs is a great idea that just needs work, and keep the dozens of squatters happy as well.
    Politics, Irish style!

    QED.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    eastwest wrote:
    Anyone who still thinks that the rest of the WRC will be opened should tell us (a) where the money will come from, and (b) where the passenger numbers to sustain it will come from.

    I'm still waiting for an answer to these two simple questions.

    Maybe an increase in property taxes nationally to pay the capital costs, and a couple of percentage points in income tax to subsidise the running of it?

    Or maybe close down the Ennis Athenry section and use the money saved to run the bit north of Athenry?

    This isn't about the west being put upon by the rest of the country; this is about the MOFNEY, the money!

    I know, there's no F in money. Exactly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭rainbowdash


    eastwest wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for an answer to these two simple questions.

    Maybe an increase in property taxes nationally to pay the capital costs, and a couple of percentage points in income tax to subsidise the running of it?

    Or maybe close down the Ennis Athenry section and use the money saved to run the bit north of Athenry?

    This isn't about the west being put upon by the rest of the country; this is about the MOFNEY, the money!

    I know, there's no F in money. Exactly.

    If you bother reading the posts back along most of us are in agreement that the railway will never be rebuilt, certainly not north of Claremorris. There is no money to built it and if built the passengers will not come.

    However I think the greenway will not generate any meaningful numbers of tired and hungry tourists either, and bashing WOT under the pretence that they are blocking a major tourism project is more like a vendetta by a few individuals against WOT by writing letters to papers etc. than anything else.

    If the greenway was such a no brainer then are the hotels, pubs, campsites and guesthouses along the route willing to stump up the cash knowing thousands of tired and hungry tourists will arrive.

    I don't think so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    If you bother reading the posts back along most of us are in agreement that the railway will never be rebuilt, certainly not north of Claremorris. There is no money to built it and if built the passengers will not come.

    However I think the greenway will not generate any meaningful numbers of tired and hungry tourists either, and bashing WOT under the pretence that they are blocking a major tourism project is more like a vendetta by a few individuals against WOT by writing letters to papers etc. than anything else.

    If the greenway was such a no brainer then are the hotels, pubs, campsites and guesthouses along the route willing to stump up the cash knowing thousands of tired and hungry tourists will arrive.

    I don't think so.

    It's the job if government to provide infrastructure; it's not up to the hotels and other businesses.

    WOT and their 'political wing' aka the ICRC are blocking the development of a greenway on the route. A greenway can only be funded if projects are initiated by the councils, but, as can be seen from the Roscommon debacle, the ICRC councils are blocking even having the issue discussed.

    I still don't understand by the way what role Roscommon has in a railway that isn't in Roscommon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,264 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    If you bother reading the posts back along most of us are in agreement that the railway will never be rebuilt, certainly not north of Claremorris. There is no money to built it and if built the passengers will not come.

    However I think the greenway will not generate any meaningful numbers of tired and hungry tourists either, and bashing WOT under the pretence that they are blocking a major tourism project is more like a vendetta by a few individuals against WOT by writing letters to papers etc. than anything else.

    If the greenway was such a no brainer then are the hotels, pubs, campsites and guesthouses along the route willing to stump up the cash knowing thousands of tired and hungry tourists will arrive.

    I don't think so.

    I highlight this bit for a reason.
    and bashing WOT under the pretence that they are blocking a major tourism project is more like a vendetta by a few individuals against WOT by writing letters to papers etc. than anything else.

    That's a careful use of words there. WOT are blocking the alternative use of a rail corridor. There's no pretence in that. It's fact. Leave out the dramatics of it being a major tourism project and bring it back to basics. Stop using phrases that muddy the water. You are following the same path here as another poster I addressed by introducing words like vendetta. You are all convinced that it's a big conspiracy. If you believe the line is a dead duck and the Greenway is a non runner, whats your problem? Are you merely here to defend WOT? Explain it to me. What would you like to see happen?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,264 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    eastwest wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for an answer to these two simple questions.

    Maybe an increase in property taxes nationally to pay the capital costs, and a couple of percentage points in income tax to subsidise the running of it?

    Or maybe close down the Ennis Athenry section and use the money saved to run the bit north of Athenry?

    This isn't about the west being put upon by the rest of the country; this is about the MOFNEY, the money!

    I know, there's no F in money. Exactly.

    You will not get an answer to that question and even if we had the money, it would be a waste.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    I highlight this bit for a reason.



    That's a careful use of words there. WOT are blocking the alternative use of a rail corridor. There's no pretence in that. It's fact. Leave out the dramatics of it being a major tourism project and bring it back to basics. Stop using phrases that muddy the water. You are following the same path here as another poster I addressed by introducing words like vendetta. You are all convinced that it's a big conspiracy. If you believe the line is a dead duck and the Greenway is a non runner, whats your problem? Are you merely here to defend WOT? Explain it to me. What would you like to see happen?

    There is a third option that shouldn't be forgotten -- the taking over of publicly owned property by a number of individuals
    If somebody contends that the line won't be built, and that the greenway shouldn't be built, then it is possible that they simply support the land grab option.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Well fascinating stuff lads been away for a while so decided to give it all a miss - I think the real issue now is are the councils going to finally accept their responsibility in this debacle.

    Without the backing of our democratically elected councillors - the greenway cannot proceed, West on Track know this and are keen to hold the councils to commitments made in shall we say more heady days, at a time when the only show in town was open this railway.

    The railway is not going to proceed. That will be a central government decision and the councils won't have any influence on it. I can assure you this government is not going to deliver any part of the extension of the western rail corridor - that I have on good authority.

    Where do we go from here I wonder....probably nowhere is the answer. Its a pity really because I really do believe - as a resident of county Sligo that the greenway would actually make a difference to our local economy, it would create jobs and what's more never mind the tired hungry tourists it would actually be a great local facility for very little money.

    It is being stopped by spite.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 Naomh Eanna


    westtip wrote: »

    The railway is not going to proceed. That will be a central government decision and the councils won't have any influence on it. I can assure you this government is not going to deliver any part of the extension of the western rail corridor - that I have on good authority.

    Where do we go from here I wonder....probably nowhere is the answer. Its a pity really because I really do believe - as a resident of county Sligo that the greenway would actually make a difference to our local economy, it would create jobs and what's more never mind the tired hungry tourists it would actually be a great local facility for very little money.

    It is being stopped by spite.

    A pretty accurate post alright.

    I think if we had the luxury of time travel and the ability make good our previous mistakes, there are a number of things the Sligo Mayo Greenway campaign could have done:

    1: Fight a positive campaign without the need to insult West on Track or local councillors.

    2: No Astroturfing - no false names or denials or public forums who you really are as it's obvious anyway

    3: No childish black propaganda such as the Adolf Hitler YouTube video and the suggestions for Sensible government website.

    4: Drop the associations with the Corrib Gas pipeline

    5: Engage positively with everyone and don't give anyone cause to doubt your sincerity. Use your real name and not pseudonyms on boards. No one believes that "I'm just an interested bystander" line.

    The Greenway idea is worthwhile. Be positive and drop the nastiness. You have a great idea, no need to wash any dirty linen promoting it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    i'm just an interested by-stander


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    corktina wrote: »
    i'm just an interested by-stander

    Me too!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,264 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    eastwest wrote: »
    Me too!

    Ditto!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭InchicoreDude


    I remember a train on this line back in the 90s. Think it used to pass Tuam every Wednesday. It wasnt a passenger train. But just wondering where it was coming from and where it was going to????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭yer man!


    I used to be all for the whole corridor reopening as a railway and thought that there was no way a greenway would do well in this area. My view changed once I moved to the US for a while and saw how busy all the new greenways are over here. The vast majority of them are not near major urban centers and are still thronged with people at all times of the week. The individual states took the decision to scrap the idea of a railway reopening due to poor alignment and dwindling population along the route and went with a greenway instead. I use it every week over here and many people travel to them right across New England. The really interesting thing was that the state didn't pay a cent to built any of the greenway near to me. The local people and businesses all contributed to it's construction and are expanding it every year. photostream


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    yer man! wrote: »
    The really interesting thing was that the state didn't pay a cent to built any of the greenway near to me. The local people and businesses all contributed to it's construction and are expanding it every year. photostream
    North American jurisdictions are quite good in some respects for putting it up to them demanding and saying "how much are YOU contributing". If the good people of Ardrahan and Craughwell had been told that a local tax levy would be imposed to fund the cost of building a station, the Gort-Athenry section of the Limerick-Galway service might be running 4 minutes faster on every service because they would have balked at paying for a station to lie idle as they got in their cars to commute.


  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Tuam Greenway Project


    I remember a train on this line back in the 90s. Think it used to pass Tuam every Wednesday. It wasnt a passenger train. But just wondering where it was coming from and where it was going to????
    #

    The only trains that may have used the line in the 1990's were a Westrail steam engine and carriage, it ran as a potential tourist attraction for a couple of years, or possibly a CIE maintainance crew.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,264 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    #

    The only trains that may have used the line in the 1990's were a Westrail steam engine and carriage, it ran as a potential tourist attraction for a couple of years, or possibly a CIE maintainance crew.

    Coal trains ran along it between Foynes and the Asahi plant in Mayo during the 90s.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96uwolh_bRQ


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    oh man real railwaying, and not very long ago! So much we have lost!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,264 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    corktina wrote: »
    oh man real railwaying, and not very long ago! So much we have lost!

    Stop that now!:D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    A pretty accurate post alright.

    I think if we had the luxury of time travel and the ability make good our previous mistakes, there are a number of things the Sligo Mayo Greenway campaign could have done:

    1: Fight a positive campaign without the need to insult West on Track or local councillors.

    2: No Astroturfing - no false names or denials or public forums who you really are as it's obvious anyway

    3: No childish black propaganda such as the Adolf Hitler YouTube video and the suggestions for Sensible government website.

    4: Drop the associations with the Corrib Gas pipeline

    5: Engage positively with everyone and don't give anyone cause to doubt your sincerity. Use your real name and not pseudonyms on boards. No one believes that "I'm just an interested bystander" line.

    The Greenway idea is worthwhile. Be positive and drop the nastiness. You have a great idea, no need to wash any dirty linen promoting it.

    Hilarious stuff.

    1.. SMG has been positive the whole way along and have told councillors to get real in their attitude on this whole WRC thing. Many councillors simply will not engage with the idea of a greenway for fear of losing face and expenses on the inter county railway committee.
    2. Never hidden identitiy always posted here as westip. My identity is my own
    3. I didn't post the AF video - it was good though
    4. Corrib gas pipeline???
    5. Engage positively with WOT!!! - read what they have said about the greenway idea, they got an engineers report done which dismissed it out of hand as a defensive measure, they have always knocked the idea and One of their best lines is when one of their spokespersons spoke about no scenery near claremorris!!!

    The greenway campaign is very positive, its support is growing, and it has the backing of many people, nearly 300 sent submissions into Mayo Coco asking for a greenway on the old railway from Claremorris to Collooney. It does not have to engage with West on Track - WOT do not own the line, they have an idea about what it could be used for, SMG have a different idea. We don't need to engage with West on Track as the idea of a railway being re-installed on this line is in the realms of Alice in Wonderland, West on Tracks views are largely irrelevant at this stage. No Government is going to give them their railway (er Sinn Fein maybe but they promise 24 hour sunshine to Eskimos in December)
    Great post though - thought I would wait a day or two before responding to such twaddle.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Will the Athenry-Claremorris railway ever reopen as a Greenway? :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Athenry to Tuam: short section, some merit as a railway, won't be more successful than the re-opened section though

    Tuam to Claremorris: again a short section, some merit in retaining as a diversionary/stock transfer route and as a strategic reserve

    Claremorris northward: lightly laid meandering line straggling miles through thinly populated area. Not a hope in the world of ever re-opening.

    Conclusion: When and if we have any money (bearing in mind we never actually had any money to re-open the bit we did...) perhaps the first should be done, the second entails doing nothing except protecting the route and the third involves getting out the demolition train.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭InchicoreDude


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Coal trains ran along it between Foynes and the Asahi plant in Mayo during the 90s.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96uwolh_bRQ

    Thank you! I knew I remembered a train on it!

    I walked along a section of it recently (It is one way I can get from one of our fields to another field). Would be nice to see something done with it rather than just having it idle. If not a railway, then a greenway cycle thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Thank you! I knew I remembered a train on it!

    I walked along a section of it recently (It is one way I can get from one of our fields to another field). Would be nice to see something done with it rather than just having it idle. If not a railway, then a greenway cycle thing.

    Or why not let lumps if it get taken over by default and neglect? Then, when a big lump of Dublin money is sent down to build a railway, there'll be a shed-load left over for compensating the 'owners'. ;-). ,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,279 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    eastwest wrote: »
    Or why not let lumps if it get taken over by default and neglect? Then, when a big lump of Dublin money is sent down to build a railway, there'll be a shed-load left over for compensating the 'owners'. ;-). ,
    doesn't have to happen like that, a little piece of legislation could sort that out, could go like this.
    we the irish government seek to either, re-open all closed railways within the state, or re-use all lands once occupied by a railway for other public uses, we reserve the right to, with out compensation where applicable, remove any obstruction on lands which a railway has occupied, where land has been sold which was once occupied by a railway, such deal shall be null and void.
    this will do 2 things, remove the squatters from lands which had a railway that won't be re-opened, and if theirs another re-opening (unlikely) should their be a situation that the council has given planning permission for something to be built that it can be removed with out compensation (unless its a house for which maybe a rebuild somewhere else would be better then money as compensation)

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    doesn't have to happen like that, a little piece of legislation could sort that out, could go like this.
    we the irish government seek to either, re-open all closed railways within the state, or re-use all lands once occupied by a railway for other public uses, we reserve the right to, with out compensation where applicable, remove any obstruction on lands which a railway has occupied, where land has been sold which was once occupied by a railway, such deal shall be null and void.
    this will do 2 things, remove the squatters from lands which had a railway that won't be re-opened, and if theirs another re-opening (unlikely) should their be a situation that the council has given planning permission for something to be built that it can be removed with out compensation (unless its a house for which maybe a rebuild somewhere else would be better then money as compensation)

    Wouldn't that be retro-active though. If the new occupier already has years of squatter's rights (adverse possession?) over the land?

    These people should never have been allowed take possession of the land and I'd have little sympathy for them but I don't think such a law would be simple to implement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    hardCopy wrote: »
    Wouldn't that be retro-active though. If the new occupier already has years of squatter's rights (adverse possession?) over the land?

    These people should never have been allowed take possession of the land and I'd have little sympathy for them but I don't think such a law would be simple to implement.
    It also doesn't take into account that politicians don't like to see laws enforced in situations like this. A land-grabber who approaches a TD for help will always get a hearing, and a successful intervention by the TD will guarantee a whole family-load of votes forever.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,279 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    hardCopy wrote: »
    Wouldn't that be retro-active though. If the new occupier already has years of squatter's rights (adverse possession?) over the land?
    the adverse possession/squatters rights laws could be re-written to exclude railway land, but yes it would be a tricky law to implament, i think it would be worth it though and would make any greenway project or even in the future another re-opening if circumstances allow it much much easier, but as another poster said some td looking for votes from somebody and their family will make sure this doesn't happen

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    westtip wrote: »
    Yes this is the crux of the matter, I go back to my O'level history and study of the industrial revolution the flow chart went something like this

    Horse and Carts > Canal revolution> Railway revolution > Henry Ford.

    Of course the Railways haven't been replaced by Road. Moving high volumes of commuters, or very fast intercity/interurban movement from large population centres to other large population centres quickly is critical rail infrastructure. In Ireland its all about good rail services to Dublin. Rural rail lines through dispersed population centres or even to small towns in the country over relatively short distances are not the way to go. The rural branch lines were closed for a reason, and the reason remains valid in not re-opening - the great experiment of re-opening the rural branch line of Ennis/Athenry has proven this. It happened. It didn't work. Lets move on and do something different.

    'Move on' are the key words. Unfortunately where local politicians have built careers on promises of big infrastructure for small places, they find it impossible to move on or to admit their mistake. They adopt the classic 'when in a hole, keep digging' approach.
    That's why I have always stated that the best solution from a political standpoint is to keep promising a railway and a greenway, while delivering neither.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    a good programme on the BBC last night about Victoria Coach Station...700+ arrivals and the same with departures PER DAY. There was a woman with 2 children had travelled up from Devon (thats a long way...) for £20 return.

    I hope the railway bosses here were watching


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,279 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    westtip wrote: »
    The rural branch lines were closed for a reason
    along with some lines that shouldn't have been but were done to either teach the people along them a lesson or for other political reasons, or even to sell off the land to ones little friends, if their really had been no future for limerick nenagh ballybroaphy then its passenger service would have been stopped back in the 60s and 70s, however it was left to be ran down to oblivian, so i stand by what i said, if i was in his situation then yes i would be defending the line, if we had someone like him down here in wexford then maybe we wouldn't have seen rosslare waterford close, but who knows, i certainly would have been campaigning to not re-open ennis athenry specially at the expence of other lines

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    flynnlives wrote: »
    Oranmore train station opens next week, single journey into galway is 5.10 euro!

    the bus is 5.60euro return! and the bus stop is actually in oranmore!

    the train station is about a mile outside oranmore and there are no footpaths on the busy road to it!
    An absolutle joke!

    but dont worry Varadkar will be out for the photo op!

    I doubt LV will turn up for this one, his views on the WRC are well known, and he is hardly responsible for the farce, definitely an inheritance of the previous administration. However if he does turn up it will be interesting to see if he makes any comments about reports that he has no intention of extending the WRC north of Athenry, perhaps he should come west and make the Oranmore declaration: "No more"

    Especially now it has been reported what he wrote in an in email to the sligo - mayo greenway campaign reported today on page 14 of the Sligo Weekender (.pdf will be posted when available).

    The story came out of a press release sent to regional papers last weekend which is attached but the full content of the email signed by Leo Varadkar is below, the release of this email was held back for a while before a meeting the SMG campaign had with Alan Kelly and before th SMG campaign ascertained that the number of submissions asking for a greenway on the mayo county plan had been released - the council received 281 submissions
    From: MINISTER'S OFFICE [mailto:minister@dttas.ie]
    Sent: 21 June 2013 13:13
    To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Our Ref MLVC 13/1621

    Our Ref MLVC 13/1621

    21st June 2013


    Dear Mr Quinn,

    I refer to your recent correspondence requesting a meeting.

    Currently, the Government has no plans to extend the western rail corridor nor any other heavy rail line in the state. We do not have the funds. Our priority is to keep the existing lines open. I have not met with West on Track for almost two years.

    With regard to greenways, my Department and its agencies are very supportive of greenways. However, there are many more proposals for greenways than we can possibly facilitate, assist or support financially. For that reason, we only consider them where the local authority and the leader company etc. are on board already.

    The granting of access to the alignment is a property matter for Irish Rail / CIE and I have no function in this regard.

    For these reasons, I do not believe a meeting would serve any purpose.

    Yours sincerely



    ____________
    Leo Varadkar
    Minister for Transport, Tourism & Sport


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Here is the press release we put out last weekendAttachment not found.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    westtip wrote: »
    I doubt LV will turn up for this one, his views on the WRC are well known, and he is hardly responsible for the farce, definitely an inheritance of the previous administration. However if he does turn up it will be interesting to see if he makes any comments about reports that he has no intention of extending the WRC north of Athenry, perhaps he should come west and make the Oranmore declaration: "No more"

    He is turning up to officially too open the station on Monday. Believe it will be operational from this Sunday.
    See the following article :
    http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/941-oranmore-s-new-train-station-will-open-next-monday


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    flynnlives wrote: »
    the train station is about a mile outside oranmore and there are no footpaths on the busy road to it!
    An absolutle joke!

    but dont worry Varadkar will be out for the photo op!

    Agree - it should be called Garraun Station rather than Oranmore. It is a shame it is not closer to the village of Oranmore. Cycling rather than walking would seem the easier option. City Council do have plans to expand the city east though. A new town called Ardaun maybe built around the station in the future.
    Have not been on the coast road in a while - why is the road busy when Oranmore have there own Dual carraigeway since the M6 motorway(dual carraigeway) was built? Should only have local traffic on it.
    Roughly how much in meter's "Hard Shoulder" walking will be required to get to the new Station Road?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    He is turning up to officially open the station on Monday. Believe it will be operational from this Sunday.
    See the following article :
    http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/941-oranmore-s-new-train-station-will-open-next-monday

    Good for Leo coming out west, perhaps he can be asked for a soundbite on what he has said about the rest of the WRC - he sure as hell isn't turning up to tell anyone about extensions north of Athenry!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,739 ✭✭✭serfboard


    flynnlives wrote: »
    Oranmore train station opens next week
    'Twill be interesting to see how this does. A 300 space car park is a big advantage, though as this will be operated by the County Council, I doubt it will be free. Add in the cost of the journey (8.60 return, cheaper obviously if you're using commuter tickets) and it could make it dear enough.

    However, it's got good timetabling around peak hours (arriving 8:10, 8:35 and 9:25, leaving at 17:20, 17:50, 18:10 and 18:40) and it's quick (most journeys 10 minutes or less) so it will be handy if you're working in town.

    Ballybrit/Parkmore/Mervue (i.e. major industrial areas) commuters will continue to drive, take the bus or cycle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    serfboard wrote: »
    'Twill be interesting to see how this does. A 300 space car park is a big advantage, though as this will be operated by the County Council, I doubt it will be free. Add in the cost of the journey (8.60 return, cheaper obviously if you're using commuter tickets) and it could make it dear enough.

    This is interesting regarding the parking. Why the County Council? Athenry, Craughwell, Ardrahan and Gort are run by NCPS. (http://www.ncps.ie/)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭rainbowdash


    westtip wrote: »
    Here is the press release we put out last weekendAttachment not found.


    Not sure why you are getting excited about the email, maybe you should have read it before you made your press release.

    The Minister says:

    "Currently, the Government has no plans to extend the western rail corridor nor any other heavy rail line in the state. We do not have the funds."

    That gives no indication of what may or may not be happening with the railway in 1, 2, 5 or 10 years, either on the WRC or anywhere. No mention of abandoning, or plans to abandon a railway, anywhere in the state.

    Then he says (about Greenways)

    "we only consider them where the local authority and the leader company etc. are on board already."

    In other words, go away and stop annoying us and leave it to the correct people.

    Then he says:

    "The granting of access to the alignment is a property matter for Irish Rail / CIE and I have no function in this regard."

    Its just a standard a PFO letter, written by a government spin doctor to fob you off so it says very little when you read through it and gets nobody in trouble.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Not sure why you are getting excited about the email, maybe you should have read it before you made your press release.

    The Minister says:

    "Currently, the Government has no plans to extend the western rail corridor nor any other heavy rail line in the state. We do not have the funds."

    That gives no indication of what may or may not be happening with the railway in 1, 2, 5 or 10 years, either on the WRC or anywhere. No mention of abandoning, or plans to abandon a railway, anywhere in the state.

    Then he says (about Greenways)

    "we only consider them where the local authority and the leader company etc. are on board already."

    In other words, go away and stop annoying us and leave it to the correct people.

    Then he says:

    "The granting of access to the alignment is a property matter for Irish Rail / CIE and I have no function in this regard."

    Its just a standard a PFO letter, written by a government spin doctor to fob you off so it says very little when you read through it and gets nobody in trouble.

    Really, is that why he arranged for us to see Alan Kelly, who said in a meeting with us the WRC will not happen in 10/15 years (in political speak - not ever, he said we could quote him 10 years which is long enough to say we are not doing it), Yes there is an element of hedging in the email language - sure we come to expect that , but there is absolutely no suggestion the WRC is ever coming back on anyones agenda. Do I take encouragement from what varadkar says yes and the same about what Kelly said in a follow up meeting. I can assure you the WRC extension is a dead duck, it is quite simply not going to happen, Varadkars "currently" is a most definitely - not on my watch comment. With regard to greenways - Kelly cannot comprehend why Mayo and Sligo coco are not fighting for a greenway on the WRC when they (the councils) no full well the railway is not going to happen and have been told as much time and time again. I am not as dismissive as you are but yes can see they are still trying to be all things to all men and long finger everything, railway and greenway and keep both parties on a promise but deliver nothing


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