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Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Have you managed to find any live ones in Ireland yet?


    So what your saying is we should just mind our own business and not worry about what goes on in the world? If only the BA & the US army amongst some would do that and let impartial peace keeping and human rights organisations deal with human issues then the world would be a better place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,165 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    billybudd wrote: »
    So what your saying is we should just mind our own business and not worry about what goes on in the world? If only the BA & the US army amongst some would do that and let impartial peace keeping and human rights organisations deal with human issues then the world would be a better place.

    What I'm saying is what I said, and not what you think I said. How on earth you can draw your conclusion from what I posted is a mystery to me.:P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Have you managed to find any live ones in Ireland yet?


    I use kenya as an example. Given the date its infinetly more likely that veterans of colonial conflicts like it are alive rather than WWII veterans.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    What I'm saying is what I said, and not what you think I said. How on earth you can draw your conclusion from what I posted is a mystery to me.:P


    It was a question as that is what ? means.

    So what did you mean?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,165 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Nodin wrote: »
    I use kenya as an example. Given the date its infinetly more likely that veterans of colonial conflicts like it are alive rather than WWII veterans.

    60 odd years ago? That's a bit of a stretch. Perhaps the British Legion is paying for the upkeep of some Cryogenics facility in Dublin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    billybudd wrote: »


    So what your saying is we should just mind our own business and not worry about what goes on in the world? If only the BA & the US army amongst some would do that and let impartial peace keeping and human rights organisations deal with human issues then the world would be a better place.

    You mean organisations like the UN? I agree with you and I fully support anyone engaged on one of their peace keeping missions.

    Which is one of the reasons why I have bought a poppy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    60 odd years ago? That's a bit of a stretch. Perhaps the British Legion is paying for the upkeep of some Cryogenics facility in Dublin.


    Malaya to Kenya to Suez to Aden to Iraq II. Thats 1948 to 2003.

    Why is it you don't make your remarks re cryogenic facilities when we get the usual justifications that refer to WW1 and WWII?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,165 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Nodin wrote: »
    Malaya to Kenya to Suez to Aden to Iraq II. Thats 1948 to 2003.

    Why is it you don't make your remarks re cryogenic facilities when we get the usual justifications that refer to WW1 and WWII?


    They were probably experimenting with cryogenics in the 60s, but WW1 and WW2 would have been a definite no no on that score.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    can we have a little sympathy for the british indians killed in the mau mau wars......a lot of them in a horrific manner..

    they were doing no worse than making a home in foreign lands....the same as the irish did in the usa, canada, australia, etc.....

    or is it only irish that are innocent.......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    can we have a little sympathy for the british indians killed in the mau mau wars......a lot of them in a horrific manner..

    they were doing no worse than making a home in foreign lands....the same as the irish did in the usa, canada, australia, etc.....

    or is it only irish that are innocent.......


    What are you on about now?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    wearing one is very much a personal choice, and i would in no way think any less of someone who choose to wear it.

    that said i wouldn't as i do not feel inclined to commemorate soldiers who slaughtered my fellow irish-men, women and children

    exactly the same reason i choose not to wear an Easter lily.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,348 ✭✭✭Rhinocharge


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    The blood of one side only. Hardly a gesture symbolising the futility of war.
    The question was regarding Irish people wearing the poppy. Like it or not at the time we were part of the British Isles & over 30,000 Irish men died during the war while serving the British army.
    The poppy doesn't represent the futility of war & I never said it did.
    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    So did a lot of Germans, are their lives not worth honouring too? Nope only Irish and by extension the side they were fighting on matter.
    Actually since ´45 it is not en-voque in Germany to celebrate the deeds and remembrance of german soldiers (at least without beeing labeled "nazi" and "revisionist". The only flower used in the German military tradition is the Leontopodium alpinum, as a symbol for the alpine rangers "Gebirgsjäger" & I didn't say they didn't matter. The question at hand is regarding Irish people wearing a Poppy.
    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    The red poppy may have symbolised one thing but it raises money for another.
    There is no "may" about it, the poppy symbolises the blood of the dead.
    If it's just the money you have the issue with, light a candle for them all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,476 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Like it or not at the time we were part of the British Isles

    We still are part of the British Isles as that is a geogrphical name. You mean we were part of the United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland.

    There is no "may" about it, the poppy symbolises the blood of the dead.

    The dead of one side


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭summerskin



    We still are part of the British Isles as that is a geogrphical name. You mean we were part of the United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland.




    The dead of one side

    Yep. The side where you are currently living. Don't forget that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,476 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    summerskin wrote: »
    Yep. The side where you are currently living. Don't forget that.

    I prefer to actually remember all who died, primarily the millions of civilians in wars. The red poppy certainly does not do that. Don't forget that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    summerskin wrote: »
    Yes, with my Irish mother, Irish grandparents, Irish wife, Irish children and living and working in Ireland I clearly hate the place...

    I love Ireland and most of the people. I just have no time for the mouthbreathing "800 years" brigade who hate everything British, while watching English soccer, watching English tv and shopping in NI so than can save a few euro.

    Thankfully there are only a few of them left. All bile and dogma, long inaccurate and fogged up memories. Sad really.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭wendell borton


    Listened to a Intersting interview of Cruel Britannia Author Ian Cobain by pat kenny during the week about GB's use of torture.
    The british army are world leaders in torture. They perfected it from the boer war to after WWII. They used these skills to try to hold onto their crumpling empire indiscremently, they even tortured Barack Obama's grandfather in kenya.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/nov/04/cruel-britannia-ian-cobain-review

    Maybe before you wear a symbol you shold make sure you know what it represents. The british army have created, through their own behaviour over the years here and internationaly, a well of hatred that run very deep.


  • Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭youreadthat


    Listened to a Intersting interview of Cruel Britannia Author Ian Cobain by pat kenny during the week about GB's use of torture.
    The british army are world leaders in torture. They perfected it from the boer war to after WWII. They used these skills to try to hold onto their crumpling empire indiscremently, they even tortured Barack Obama's grandfather in kenya.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/nov/04/cruel-britannia-ian-cobain-review

    Maybe before you wear a symbol you shold make sure you know what it represents. The british army have created, through their own behaviour over the years here and internationaly, a well of hatred that run very deep.

    Comparing different situations in the same era with different eras, kind of a fail.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭wendell borton


    Comparing different situations in the same era with different eras, kind of a fail.

    Different eras all right but the brutality and oppresion remains the same.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Broxi_Bear_Eire


    Listened to a Intersting interview of Cruel Britannia Author Ian Cobain by pat kenny during the week about GB's use of torture.
    The british army are world leaders in torture. They perfected it from the boer war to after WWII. They used these skills to try to hold onto their crumpling empire indiscremently, they even tortured Barack Obama's grandfather in kenya.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/nov/04/cruel-britannia-ian-cobain-review

    Maybe before you wear a symbol you shold make sure you know what it represents. The british army have created, through their own behaviour over the years here and internationaly, a well of hatred that run very deep.

    A lot of political commentators reckon this isn't true


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭wendell borton


    Well its possible that never happened but a lot of other peoples grandfathers got that treatment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Broxi_Bear_Eire


    Well its possible that never happened but a lot of other peoples grandfathers got that treatment.

    Oh I am not saying they didn't I was just pointing out that what you said is probably wrong ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Oh I am not saying they didn't I was just pointing out that what you said is probably wrong ;)


    Given the numbers they went through, he was lucky if thats the case.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Well its possible that never happened but a lot of other peoples grandfathers got that treatment.
    It is possible its absolute rubbish.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

    Well in answer to the original question . . .

    Two Poppy sellers in Dun Laoghaire today, one old chap outside the main Shopping Centre, the other in Bloomfield. I also noted about twelve people wearing poppies in and around Dun Laoghaire within the space of just one hour early this afternoon. Doesn't mean anything really, but just good to see the memory of so many Irish fallen from WWI & WWII being kept alive in this small symbolic way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred



    Different eras all right but the brutality and oppresion remains the same.

    Does it? Could you please tell us where?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Well its possible that never happened but a lot of other peoples grandfathers got that treatment.

    And the treatment dished out by the Mau Maus against the majority of Kenyans who were opposed to them? Where is the outrage about their actions?

    They wiped out entire villages, young and old.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    And the treatment dished out by the Mau Maus against the majority of Kenyans who were opposed to them? Where is the outrage about their actions?

    They wiped out entire villages, young and old.


    Just to be clear, you're comparing violence initiated to overthrow a racist colonial regime, with violence designed to keep the status quo and subjugate the population....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Rod Stewart isnt wearing one, wonder will they have a go at him for it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Actually he is, but its one of those tiny badge type ones.

    Look closely (breast pocket).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Well in answer to the original question . . .

    Two Poppy sellers in Dun Laoghaire today, one old chap outside the main Shopping Centre, the other in Bloomfield. I also noted about twelve people wearing poppies in and around Dun Laoghaire within the space of just one hour early this afternoon. Doesn't mean anything really, but just good to see the memory of so many Irish fallen from WWI & WWII being kept alive in this small symbolic way.

    You sure that's not in Freds hometown of Kingstown?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »

    Just to be clear, you're comparing violence initiated to overthrow a racist colonial regime, with violence designed to keep the status quo and subjugate the population....

    wiping out entire villages of their fellow Kenyans? I know that might be considered acceptable in your circles and even worthy of a memorial or two, personally I consider it equal to anything the colonial army did there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    GRMA wrote: »
    Rod Stewart isnt wearing one, wonder will they have a go at him for it

    Have you still hot the nerve to post after your own hypocrisy was pointed out?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »

    That's the same brutality and oppression is it? Isolated incidents which have led to prosecutions?

    How's the conscience Nodin, still proud of your Lilly, or willing to admit that it is no different to the poppy?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Have you still hot the nerve to post after your own hypocrisy was pointed out?
    What hypocrisy is this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    From the link above.
    Today the military and monarchy stand tall at the front of the day of remembrance. Mourning the butchery of thousands of ordinary people through an act of remembrance side by side with the inheritors of an economic system which created the war is not something I wish to take part in. It is an insult to those sent to die, victims of the self interested advancement of the British Empire.

    dancooperulu.wordpress.com

    The British elite were lucky they weren't hanged by the ordinary folks who suffered for their state brinkmanship after WWI. It's quite some achievement how the British elite have managed to turn that awful loss of life into some sort of national day (week?) of don't-you-dare-question-the-narrative.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    That's the same brutality and oppression is it? Isolated incidents which have led to prosecutions?

    How's the conscience Nodin, still proud of your Lilly, or willing to admit that it is no different to the poppy?


    On one hand a war waged for ones own countries freedom and on the other a greedy power intent on grabbing what they could and what they wanted by brutality and torture.

    British guns in the hands of child soldiers.

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+14-year-old+'soldier'+armed+with+a+British+gun%3B+Doped-up+kids+use...-a062294641


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    wiping out entire villages of their fellow Kenyans? I know that might be considered acceptable in your circles and even worthy of a memorial or two, personally I consider it equal to anything the colonial army did there.


    ...but thats your problem Fred oul flower. You can't admit that the ultimate motivation behind the Empire was evil through and through.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,019 ✭✭✭uch


    Back on topic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I would wear a poppy because my Granda was a professional fighter, he fought in the spanish civil war, came home and had no work, joined the British army, was shipped to france, defended against the German and was evacuated from Dunkirk

    21/25



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    I think this attack on Fratton Fred is ridiculous. Britain were the dominant force, they became a civilised race long before we did. Naturally as an advanced race they spread their wings and endeavored to grow their empire. There was no evil intention behind this desire. They're humans, things went wrong, sh1t happened and its true that many atrocities were carried out by the British Army.

    They still however undeniably left a mark on our planet, the very language I type this post in is because of the British. Don't think that we're all innocent here either, Michael Collins had men killed in their beds, including the wrong targets. If you were to believe TP Coogan's account of the man (Who as an author is very favourably biased towards him) he was a very flawed individual and had a drinking problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭whatsthetime


    uch wrote: »
    Back on topic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I would wear a poppy because my Granda was a professional fighter, he fought in the spanish civil war, came home and had no work, joined the British army, was shipped to france, defended against the German and was evacuated from Dunkirk

    You would buy an emblem because your ancestor was a mercenary?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    I think this attack on Fratton Fred is ridiculous. Britain were the dominant force, they became a civilised race long before we did. Naturally as an advanced race they spread their wings and endeavored to grow their empire. There was no evil intention behind this desire. They're humans, things went wrong, sh1t happened and its true that many atrocities were carried out by the British Army.

    They still however undeniably left a mark on our planet, the very language I type this post in is because of the British. Don't think that we're all innocent here either, Michael Collins had men killed in their beds, including the wrong targets. If you were to believe TP Coogan's account of the man (Who as an author is very favourably biased towards him) he was a very flawed individual and had a drinking problem.
    Hahaha nice try.
    You do know that we Irish savages had quite the advanced civilization for its day before the English came a knocking?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    GRMA wrote: »
    Hahaha nice try.
    You do know that we Irish savages had quite the advanced civilization for its day before the English came a knocking?

    Is this the Brehon Law argument? Granted it worked for its time and place but it was incorporated into common without fuss.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    You would buy an emblem because your ancestor was a mercenary?

    More likely because he was a man of high principals.

    Something the Irish Goverment of the time had little off.

    Irelands shame.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭whatsthetime


    getzls wrote: »
    More likely because he was a man of high principals.

    Something the Irish Goverment of the time had little off.

    Irelands shame.

    How does the Irish Government come into someone moving from one war to another for foreign armies?


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