Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

Lelantos

round tower huntsman wrote: »

the poppy is a fundraising exercise its not soley about remembering the fallen from ww1. its raises money for ba vets that have servedin every imperialist deed of the empire. you are basically supporting the brit war machine. if you wear a poppy you support the ba's actions in ireland,iraq,afghansitan etc............
no other way of putting it.

Actually, another way of putting it is, absolute bull. Sad post, but its symptomatic of the thinking of some on here

Fratton Fred

Chuck Stone wrote: »

It's really quite pathetic how you're trying foist responsibility onto the Irish for British Soldiers coming home from Afghanistan in body bags.

Why?

They voted to send people to war. As much as it may hurt your self righteousness, of course Ireland is partly responsible.

Japer

The Irish government has a sad reputation for letting others do the dirty work, be that standing up to Nazism, standing up to Communism, or liberating Kuwait from the Iraquis.
However many Irish people - hundreds of thousands - are proud to have volunteered to serve in UK uniforms, some paying the ultimate price, inc one soldier from Co. Down only about a week ago, killed in Afghanistan.
Do not forget there are dozens of countries helping Afghanistan, at the request of the govt there. Nobody likes to see dead + injured come home though. Personally I think the world is a safer place thanks to the UK / US, and we shelter behind their umbrella as usual.

Nodin

Japer wrote: »

............. Personally I think the world is a safer place thanks to the UK / US, and we shelter behind their umbrella as usual.

There are people from Guatamala to Iraq who would disagree.

Chuck Stone

Fratton Fred wrote: »

They voted to send people to war.

That was 2001. Maybe you've missed the almighty balls the US/UK et al have been making of it since then?

The total value of American reconstruction aid to Afghanistan in the fiscal 2002 budget that the Congress approved amounted to $942.1 million. That was probably $500 million short of what was needed that year, but analysts might have argued that the country could not absorb more money at that time. The initial fiscal 2003 request, however, totaled just $151 million, with foreign military financing reduced to a laughable $1 million.

Bill Taylor, who was coordinating assistance to Afghanistan for the State Department, was outraged. He made his views clear in an unclassified e-mail distributed widely throughout the government: "Our request for FY 03 is $151 million. This is not serious. ... FMF goes from $57 million to $1 million? On this we train the ANA [Afghan National Army] next year?. . . [the] FY 03 OHDACA [overseas humanitarian, disaster, and civic aid-a DOD program] request of $12 million had been reduced to $6 million ... can this be right? ... Zal [Khalilzad] is here and I just showed him the chart[listing the FY 03 request]. His response was the right one: `You're not serious.'"

Source

Ireland is partly responsible.

You really are clutching at straws.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The Irish government voted in favour of the Afghanistan action. Looks to me as though they are partly to blame for every isaf death over there, yet they don't want to send their own army in any meaningful numbers.

Sound fair to you?

And do the funds just go to those who served in Afghanistan? No, they do not.

Japer

Nodin wrote: »

There are people from Guatamala to Iraq who would disagree.

In Iraq there were none of them to be seen when the US / UK rolled in to Bagdad, without any casulties. No US or UK soldiers fell then, the only thing that fell were statues of Saddam, their leader who had previously invaded Kuwait years previously. You will never get 100% agreement on everything from everyone around the world. By respecting the Poppy appeal you are respecting fallen and wounded soldiers, sailors and airmen from many different wars, without necessarily supporting the wars themselves.

Chuck Stone

Japer wrote: »

In Iraq there were none of them to be seen when the US / UK rolled in to Bagdad, without any casulties. No US or UK soldiers fell then, the only thing that fell were statues of Saddam, their leader who had previously invaded Kuwait years previously. You will never get 100% agreement on everything from everyone around the world. By respecting the Poppy appeal you are respecting fallen and wounded soldiers, sailors and airmen from many different wars, without necessarily supporting the wars themselves.

I fucking hate that word 'fallen' when it's used to describe violent deaths. It's just more Orwellian language used to mask the brutality of war from the public.

They haven't fallen - they had their bodies ripped to shreds by shrapnel and bullets and spilled their young blood in foreign fields for obscure reasons.

Japer

Most of the fallen and injured served in those foreign fields so that you and others can live in relative peace and prosperity.

Chuck Stone

Japer wrote: »

Most of the fallen and injured served in those foreign fields so that you and others can live in relative peace and prosperity.

Those who've had their bodies and brains ripped to shreds by shrapnel and bullets since WWII? No.

You're just regurgitating the propaganda you've been fed and expecting others to swallow it.

Indeed the British and Americans have done their fair share of destroying democratic movements around the globe rather than respecting people's freedom to run their own affairs.

See here.

gurramok

Japer wrote: »

Most of the fallen and injured served in those foreign fields so that you and others can live in relative peace and prosperity.

Thanks, explain how BA soldiers serving in NI secured Irish freedom?

Japer

Of course since independence our own government has a proud history in standing up to Nazism, standing up to Communism, helping to liberate Kuwait from the Iraquis, helping the govt of Afghanistan, trying to reduce the supply of heroin from manufacruring countries, going after Bin Laden etc.

Japer

gurramok wrote: »

Thanks, explain how BA soldiers serving in NI secured Irish freedom?

Hundreds of thousands of Irish people have volunteered to serve with UK forces....from when back in the day we were part of the UK..... to WW2 to help save Europe from Nazism.... to the troubles when they helped prevent terrorism / helped support the police force + rule of the law .

I'd prefer the freedom in these islands than to live under Nazism or under Stalin or his successors.

Chuck Stone

I think I'll watch the film 'Bloody Sunday' that's starting on ITV3+1 now.

Not that I need reminding of the massacre the murdering degenerates in the BA perpetrated against innocent civilians on the Streets of Derry that day.

Brave men indeed.

Japer

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I think I'll watch the film 'Bloody Sunday' that's starting on ITV3+1 now.

really? Thats the 510th time. No wonder you are indoctrinated. You need to move on / get a life.

If one car crashes and kills its driver, you do not ban all cars from the road.;)

Chuck Stone

Japer wrote: »

really? Thats the 510th time. No wonder you are indoctrinated. You need to move on / get a life.

Says the poppy advocate who can't stop bringing up decades past wars.

Facepalm.

Nodin

Japer wrote: »

Most of the fallen and injured served in those foreign fields so that you and others can live in relative peace and prosperity.

We weren't going to be invaded by Iraq, Palestine, Kenya, Nigeria, Burma, Mayalasia, India, Sudan, Egypt, Aden, Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, Uganda, Benin, Sierra Leone, Gambia, Tanganika, Somalia, Eritrea, Fiji, Papua and the rest. They were invaded by the British, which denied them peace and prosperity.

You will never get 100% agreement on everything from everyone around the world. By respecting the Poppy appeal you are respecting fallen and wounded soldiers, sailors and airmen from many different wars

Why should I respect the people involved in this?

Interrogation under torture was widespread. Many of the men were anally raped, using knives, broken bottles, rifle barrels, snakes and scorpions. A favourite technique was to hold a man upside down, his head in a bucket of water, while sand was rammed into his rectum with a stick. Women were gang-raped by the guards. People were mauled by dogs and electrocuted. The British devised a special tool which they used for first crushing and then ripping off testicles. They used pliers to mutilate women's breasts. They cut off inmates' ears and fingers and gouged out their eyes. They dragged people behind Land Rovers until their bodies disintegrated. Men were rolled up in barbed wire and kicked around the compound.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/23/british-empire-crimes-ignore-atrocities

or this?

The documents, released by Malaysian sources ahead of a judicial review related to the massacre, also reveal how a Metropolitan police investigation in 1970 into the allegations was "terminated" because an incoming Conservative government did not want the darker aspects of Britain's colonial past exposed.
The plantation workers were shot in cold blood by a 16-man patrol of Scots Guards in December 1948. Many of the victims' bodies were found to have been mutilated and their village of Batang Kali was burned to the ground. No weapons were found when the village was searched during a military operation against Chinese communists in the post-second world war Malayan emergency.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/09/malaya-massacre-villagers-coverup
or in the hundreds of other incidents over the last 70 years?

Lelantos

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I think I'll watch the film 'Bloody Sunday' that's starting on ITV3+1 now.

Not that I need reminding of the massacre the murdering degenerates in the BA perpetrated against innocent civilians on the Streets of Derry that day.

Brave men indeed.

What time is the Omagh bombing film on at?

Japer

Nodin wrote: »

We weren't going to be invaded by Iraq blah blah blah

but you think it was ok to let Iraq invade and rape little Kuwait?

Chuck Stone

Lelantos wrote: »

What time is the Omagh bombing film on at?

See: Whataboutery.

Regardless, nobody is out collecting money for the perpetrators of the Omagh Bomb unlike how poppy proceeds have the chance of falling in the laps of BA murderers.

Japer

Lelantos wrote: »

What time is the Omagh bombing film on at?

+1.
or the film on Bloody Friday, when the PIRA bombed shoppers in Belfast. Or the film on the Le Mon restaurant bombing, or the Darkley church atrocity?

The vast majority of the many millions of people of all religions and none who who served in the UK's armed forces were decent people. Not all, but most. I respect their sacrifices. More than a few were Irish people, neighbours, relations friends . You do not have to support the wars they fought in to respect those brave people.

DonLimon

Japer wrote: »

but you think it was ok to let Iraq invade and rape little Kuwait?

Does this mean I have to take off my Saddam Hussein badge as well?

Japer

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Regardless, nobody is out collecting money for the perpetrators of the Omagh Bomb

I was at a concert once + a bucket went around for the IRA / their supporters.

The difference is the Omagh bombers and PIRA are terrorist movements, and do / did not have the support of elected governments. Extremist republicans actually murdered police + army in this (26 county ) state.

Lelantos

Chuck Stone wrote: »

See: Whataboutery.

Regardless, nobody is out collecting money for the perpetrators of the Omagh Bomb unlike how poppy proceeds have the chance of falling in the laps of BA murderers.

I wonder where all the sales of easter lilly's went over the years then?

Chuck Stone

Japer wrote: »

but you think it was ok to let Iraq invade and rape little Kuwait?

The invasion of Kuwait by Iraq that the US said it had no issue with?

Journalist Edward Mortimer wrote in the New York Review of Books in November 1990

It seems far more likely that Saddam Hussein went ahead with the invasion because he believed the US would not react with anything more than verbal condemnation. That was an inference he could well have drawn from his meeting with US Ambassador April Glaspie on July 25, and from statements by State Department officials in Washington at the same time publicly disavowing any US security commitments to Kuwait, but also from the success of both the Reagan and the Bush administrations in heading off attempts by the US Senate to impose sanctions on Iraq for previous breaches of international law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie

Japer wrote: »

The difference is the Omagh bombers and PIRA are terrorist movements, and do / did not have the support of elected governments.

State violence good, non-state violence bad is it?

Neat packages for simple minds.

gurramok

Japer wrote: »

I was at a concert once + a bucket went around for the IRA / their supporters.

The difference is the Omagh bombers and PIRA are terrorist movements, and do / did not have the support of elected governments. Extremist republicans actually murdered police + army in this (26 county ) state.

And you have no problem with your army(BA) murdering Irish kids in NI, sums up your warped view that state forces can kill at will no matter what age the victims were.

GRMA

Lelantos wrote: »

I wonder where all the sales of easter lilly's went over the years then?

Vast majority went to the NGA which looks after the graves and monuments of Irish patriots.

billybudd

Japer wrote: »

Hundreds of thousands of Irish people have volunteered to serve with UK forces....from when back in the day we were part of the UK..... to WW2 to help save Europe from Nazism.... to the troubles when they helped prevent terrorism / helped support the police force + rule of the law .

I'd prefer the freedom in these islands than to live under Nazism or under Stalin or his successors.

actually it was mostly to support their family as there was no jobs or income to be made here during that time.

Lelantos

GRMA wrote: »

Vast majority went to the NGA which looks after the graves and monuments of Irish patriots.

No, incorrect. The NGA is a supposed non party affiliated organisation, but it was run by IRA members, so that wasn't true. The vast majority of sales went to Sinn Féin & other organizations.

GRMA

Lelantos wrote: »

No, incorrect. The NGA is a supposed non party affiliated organisation, but it was run by IRA members, so that wasn't true. The vast majority of sales went to Sinn Féin & other organizations.

SF have/had their own lilies. So did the Workers party. However the NGA sold by far the most. Party members are not allowed to be on the committee in the NGA.