Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

billybudd · 08-11-2012 11:45PM

the_syco wrote: »

My point; the IRA did a great job protecting the catholics by killing catholics without the BA & loyalst terrorist organisations help.

You do realise the IRA is not the reason behind Ireland having a negative outlook towards the British political elite?

LordSutch · 08-11-2012 11:57PM

billybudd wrote: »

You do realise the IRA is not the reason behind Ireland having a negative outlook towards the British political elite?

Please define 'Ireland' in this context.

billybudd · 08-11-2012 11:59PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Please define 'Ireland' in this context.

:pac: some people of Ireland.

Pottler · 09-11-2012 12:06AM

i'd say a fair few Irish people wear poppys because their grandfathers fought with the British Army during the world wars, rather a lot of Irish men fought and died with the Allied forces and to pi55 on their memory because of an ideological dislike for a particular nation probably does not occur to them. It's more of a "showing gratitude for a huge sacrifice", possibly.

GRMA · 09-11-2012 12:12AM

Pottler wrote: »

i'd say a fair few Irish people wear poppys because their grandfathers fought with the British Army during the world wars, rather a lot of Irish men fought and died with the Allied forces and to pi55 on their memory because of an ideological dislike for a particular nation probably does not occur to them. It's more of a "showing gratitude for a huge sacrifice", possibly.

Not wearing a poppy isnt pissing on their memory.

GRMA · 09-11-2012 12:13AM

LordSutch wrote: »

Please define 'Ireland' in this context.

You have a positive outlook towards the British political elite?

Why am I not surprised.

whatsthetime · 09-11-2012 12:13AM

GRMA wrote: »

Not wearing a poppy isnt pissing on their memory.

Totally true

Pottler · 09-11-2012 12:20AM

GRMA wrote: »

Not wearing a poppy isnt pissing on their memory.

True, but wearing one(which I've never done, but there you go) is just showing a bit of respect, if that's your thing. Personally, I'd grandfathers on both sides, so I err on the "wanna wear one, fine, don't, that's fine too" side.

LordSutch · 09-11-2012 12:26AM

GRMA wrote: »

You have a positive outlook towards the British political elite?

Why am I not surprised.

Read into my exchange with billybud what you like.

Fratton Fred · 09-11-2012 12:42AM

Nodin wrote: »

So its another variation on the "but the belgians.../"but Gerry adams..." line. Fair enuffski.

Makes a change from "bit the Mau Maus".

Hopefully you mow see the poppy is no different to the Lilly.

Roisy7 · 09-11-2012 12:46AM

My issue is with the bullying that goes on in Britain itself. Not all British people want to wear the poppy yet if you look at any British TV channel, premier league game or event in November the poppy is compulsory.

Basically, if you are a well-known person and you have reservations about the poppy, better turn down any invitations to go on TV in November.

Jon Snow got in trouble for not wearing it, as I'm sure someone else has mentioned.

The issue is this- if it was just WWI and WW2, it would be fine. There was nothing noble about WW1, it was the most senseless and pointless war ever fought, millions of young men dying for absolutely no reason, but in this the British war machine was equal to the German, French and Austro-Hungarian etc sides in sending brave soldiers to senseless deaths. "Lions led by donkeys" etc.

WW2 is a different case entirely and we should be eternally grateful to the Allies for defeating Hitler.

BUT. The poppy commemorates every soldier who fought for Britain. EVER, since WW1.

That means an Argentine soccer player is expected to wear a poppy despite the British blowing up the Belgrano thirty years ago.

That means an Iraqi appearing on the BBC is expected to wear a poppy despite British soldiers being stationed in Basra because of a totally illegitimate war.

That means Irish actors appearing on Graham Norton are expected to wear poppies despite them representing the soldiers who went postal in Derry in 1972.

It's a loaded symbol and if someone doesn't want to wear it, that is fair enough. In fact it completely cheapens it by forcing it on someone who doesn't want to wear it.

My mother is English and she said that within ordinary British society there was no big deal. Some people where she worked wore it, some didn't. No issues, no drama.

As the OP said, we wouldn't be having this conversation if it was a Spanish or French symbol. Part of us becoming a nation of our own is to realise that Britain is a foreign country. Plenty of ways to remember those who died without adopting a foreign custom that sits uneasy with many Irish people.

LordSutch · 09-11-2012 12:48AM

Roisy7 wrote: »

My issue is with the bullying that goes on in Britain itself. Not all British people want to wear the poppy yet if you look at any British TV channel, premier league game or event in November the poppy is compulsory.

Basically, if you are a well-known person and you have reservations about the poppy, better turn down any invitations to go on TV in November.

Jon Snow got in trouble for not wearing it, as I'm sure someone else has mentioned.

I agree with a lot of what you say, see post#331.

Our man in Havana · 09-11-2012 12:51AM

At least the branchmen don't take your photo for wearing the poppy.

Pottler · 09-11-2012 12:53AM

Our man in Havana wrote: »

At least the branchmen don't take your photo for wearing the poppy.

Jasus, Havana sounds well rough..

billybudd · 09-11-2012 12:53AM

Roisy7 wrote: »

My issue is with the bullying that goes on in Britain itself. Not all British people want to wear the poppy yet if you look at any British TV channel, premier league game or event in November the poppy is compulsory.

Basically, if you are a well-known person and you have reservations about the poppy, better turn down any invitations to go on TV in November.

Jon Snow got in trouble for not wearing it, as I'm sure someone else has mentioned.

The issue is this- if it was just WWI and WW2, it would be fine. There was nothing noble about WW1, it was the most senseless and pointless war ever fought, millions of young men dying for absolutely no reason, but in this the British war machine was equal to the German, French and Austro-Hungarian etc sides in sending brave soldiers to senseless deaths. "Lions led by donkeys" etc.

WW2 is a different case entirely and we should be eternally grateful to the Allies for defeating Hitler.

BUT. The poppy commemorates every soldier who fought for Britain. EVER, since WW1.

That means an Argentine soccer player is expected to wear a poppy despite the British blowing up the Belgrano thirty years ago.

That means an Iraqi appearing on the BBC is expected to wear a poppy despite British soldiers being stationed in Basra because of a totally illegitimate war.

That means Irish actors appearing on Graham Norton are expected to wear poppies despite them representing the soldiers who went postal in Derry in 1972.

It's a loaded symbol and if someone doesn't want to wear it, that is fair enough. In fact it completely cheapens it by forcing it on someone who doesn't want to wear it.

My mother is English and she said that within ordinary British society there was no big deal. Some people where she worked wore it, some didn't. No issues, no drama.

As the OP said, we wouldn't be having this conversation if it was a Spanish or French symbol. Part of us becoming a nation of our own is to realise that Britain is a foreign country. Plenty of ways to remember those who died without adopting a foreign custom that sits uneasy with many Irish people.

Good post in general but your forgetting a large number of people who sadly are part of Britain yet live on this Island who wish to live as a Irish person in all forms.

Roisy7 · 09-11-2012 12:56AM

billybudd wrote: »

Good post in general but your forgetting a large number of people who sadly are part of Britain yet live on this Island who wish to live as a Irish person in all forms.

Fair point Billybudd, was thinking along the lines of the republic. Being from the southernmost tip of Ireland I tend to be a bit partitionist at times

Nodin · 09-11-2012 12:57AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Makes a change from "bit the Mau Maus".

Hopefully you mow see the poppy is no different to the Lilly.

You seem to think the kenyan issue is a deflection. The fact is that British troops were responsible for torturing and killing thousands in Kenya alone. The poppy funds go towards ex-service personell. Therefore raising their deeds is perfectly legitimate.

billybudd · 09-11-2012 12:58AM

Roisy7 wrote: »

Fair point Billybudd, was thinking along the lines of the republic. Being from the southernmost tip of Ireland I tend to be a bit partitionist at times

Cool, am not giving out just some people from the ''republic'' tend to forget there is alot of people in N.I who live under foreign rule still.

Nodin · 09-11-2012 12:59AM

Roisy7 wrote: »

.........

As the OP said, we wouldn't be having this conversation if it was a Spanish or French symbol. Part of us becoming a nation of our own is to realise that Britain is a foreign country. Plenty of ways to remember those who died without adopting a foreign custom that sits uneasy with many Irish people.

Unfortunately some don't want to.

Lelantos · 09-11-2012 01:05AM

Roisy7 wrote: »

My issue is with the bullying that goes on in Britain itself. Not all British people want to wear the poppy yet if you look at any British TV channel, premier league game or event in November the poppy is compulsory.

Basically, if you are a well-known person and you have reservations about the poppy, better turn down any invitations to go on TV in November.

Jon Snow got in trouble for not wearing it, as I'm sure someone else has mentioned.

The issue is this- if it was just WWI and WW2, it would be fine. There was nothing noble about WW1, it was the most senseless and pointless war ever fought, millions of young men dying for absolutely no reason, but in this the British war machine was equal to the German, French and Austro-Hungarian etc sides in sending brave soldiers to senseless deaths. "Lions led by donkeys" etc.

WW2 is a different case entirely and we should be eternally grateful to the Allies for defeating Hitler.

BUT. The poppy commemorates every soldier who fought for Britain. EVER, since WW1.

That means an Argentine soccer player is expected to wear a poppy despite the British blowing up the Belgrano thirty years ago.

That means an Iraqi appearing on the BBC is expected to wear a poppy despite British soldiers being stationed in Basra because of a totally illegitimate war.

That means Irish actors appearing on Graham Norton are expected to wear poppies despite them representing the soldiers who went postal in Derry in 1972.

It's a loaded symbol and if someone doesn't want to wear it, that is fair enough. In fact it completely cheapens it by forcing it on someone who doesn't want to wear it.

My mother is English and she said that within ordinary British society there was no big deal. Some people where she worked wore it, some didn't. No issues, no drama.

As the OP said, we wouldn't be having this conversation if it was a Spanish or French symbol. Part of us becoming a nation of our own is to realise that Britain is a foreign country. Plenty of ways to remember those who died without adopting a foreign custom that sits uneasy with many Irish people.

Dara O'Brian was poppyless on BBC tonite, no one died, no one made him wear it.

Roisy7 · 09-11-2012 01:06AM

LordSutch wrote: »

I think the Poppy should only be worn on TV in the week leading up to the 11th/ November!

What's really beginning to bug me in the last few years is the 'enforced' wearing of the Poppy on TV well before the week leading up to remembrance day. This year I saw a presenter on ITV with his poppy in his lapel before the 25th of October! This enforced display just devalues the true meaning of the symbol. Poppies just seem to be stuck on anybody and everybody who walks into any British TV studios nowadays < this is a hollow gesture to the remembrance of the fallen IMO.

And I say all this as somebody who wears a Poppy in Dublin every November. Dunno for how much longer though, as the elderly ladies who sell them in Dublin and countrywide are getting fewer and fewer as the years pass by. Obviously you can get a poppy at this time of year in any Church of Ireland/ Methodist or Preysbyterian Church (small contribution always welcome), but Poppy sellers on the streets are slowly becoming a thing of the past in the ROI.

Took me a while to find it

Yes I completely agree. You see it as a fashion accessory. I remember one year in the X Factor, there was a girl group who all wore poppies. One had it in her hair, another on her belt, etc etc. Totally disrespectful IMO and if the poppy is being stripped of its symbolism by this enforced wearing.

I also remembered that my grand-uncle used to sell poppies. We are a Catholic family from Munster, the Protestant population here all but gone, but I believe in times past it was much more common.

Anyway, he sold one to my Dad when he was a kid. My granddad, an old IRA man (now I mean 1920s!) went bananas when he saw it on his son who didn't even know what it meant!

Roisy7 · 09-11-2012 01:09AM

Lelantos wrote: »

Dara O'Brian was poppyless on BBC tonite, no one died, no one made him wear it.

Perhaps there is a change in the air this year then.

I recall a young Northern contestant on the X Factor being put in a fairly impossible position by ITV a few years back. And the Jon Snow thing.

Also, given all that's happening at the BBC atm, I'd say it might be fairly easy to sneak into studio poppyless...

It has been sown into the jerseys of soccer teams for the last few years, including Celtic's, which is pretty much mandatory unless players are intending to rip holes in their shirts.

TheUsual · 09-11-2012 01:12AM

Louis Walsh wears one.

They make excellent sniper targets.

Just saying.

billybudd · 09-11-2012 01:12AM

Roisy7 wrote: »

Took me a while to find it Yes I completely agree. You see it as a fashion accessory. I remember one year in the X Factor, there was a girl group who all wore poppies. One had it in her hair, another on her belt, etc etc. Totally disrespectful IMO and if the poppy is being stripped of its symbolism by this enforced wearing.

I also remembered that my grand-uncle used to sell poppies. We are a Catholic family from Munster, the Protestant population here all but gone, but I believe in times past it was much more common.

Anyway, he sold one to my Dad when he was a kid. My granddad, an old IRA man (now I mean 1920s!) went bananas when he saw it on his son who didn't even know what it meant!

well unless he was a florist then thats were all the problems lie.

billybudd · 09-11-2012 01:14AM

Yet he buys one every year.

In reply to Jon snow below.

LordSutch · 09-11-2012 01:15AM

Roisy7 wrote: »

Perhaps there is a change in the air this year then.

I recall a young Northern contestant on the X Factor being put in a fairly impossible position by ITV a few years back. And the Jon Snow thing.

Also, given all that's happening at the BBC atm, I'd say it might be fairly easy to sneak into studio poppyless...

It has been sown into the jerseys of soccer teams for the last few years, including Celtic's, which is pretty much mandatory unless players are intending to rip holes in their shirts.

I think Jon Snow has refered to it as Poppy Fascism, and I agree with him 100%, as the enforced wearing devalues the true meaning.

summerskin · 09-11-2012 08:12AM

billybudd wrote: »

I never mentioned Irish history books, your apparent hatred of Ireland is ugly.

Yes, with my Irish mother, Irish grandparents, Irish wife, Irish children and living and working in Ireland I clearly hate the place...

I love Ireland and most of the people. I just have no time for the mouthbreathing "800 years" brigade who hate everything British, while watching English soccer, watching English tv and shopping in NI so than can save a few euro.

Fratton Fred · 09-11-2012 08:39AM

TheUsual wrote: »

Louis Walsh wears one.

They make excellent sniper targets.

Just saying.

Nice keyboard warrior statement.

Louis Walsh was wearing a poppy Saturday night, but not a RBL one.

Fratton Fred · 09-11-2012 08:40AM

Nodin wrote: »

You seem to think the kenyan issue is a deflection. The fact is that British troops were responsible for torturing and killing thousands in Kenya alone. The poppy funds go towards ex-service personell. Therefore raising their deeds is perfectly legitimate.

But the Mau Maus.....

fasttalkerchat · 09-11-2012 08:42AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Nice keyboard warrior statement.

I think it was meant as a joke. If Louie Walsh is assassinated it won't be for political reasons!

Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

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