Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

Spread

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Was there?

It's funny, according to Nodin, no one has a problem with UN missions.

Unless it's the British, obviously. It's a shame the Irish don't have the balls to actually use their army properly then the poppy wouldn't be so relevant.

If the mighty British Army couldn't defeat the IRA how do you think they'll beat insurrections that are better armed. FFS try and clean up some of the third world slums in your own country before tidying up the rest of the world. If the money spent on foreign adventures was diverted towards education the greater good would have been served and the per capita IQ raised a little.
The paranoia that emerges from Little Englanders is not healthy for the British psyche.

Lelantos

GRMA wrote: »

SF have/had their own lilies. So did the Workers party. However the NGA sold by far the most. Party members are not allowed to be on the committee in the NGA.

Oh, that has never been true, puppets sitting on the committee, all you have to do is see who the "associate" members are.

GRMA

Lelantos wrote: »

Oh, that has never been true, puppets sitting on the committee, all you have to do is see who the "associate" members are.

Where did they get the money to maintain graves and monuments then?

LordSutch

Bohemian1890 wrote: »

IMO any Irish person who wears it is not worthy of calling themselves Irish.

Well then, that wipes out the entire Protestant population of the South for a start, who must be something other than Irish in your estimation?

Thing is though, that even Sinn Fein has moved on and have made the decision to let those who wish to commorate the Irish dead from the two world wars to do so without ridicule, God knows even Martin McGuinness & Co don't keep banging the drum about the brit loving poppy wearing 'West Brits' wearing their Poppies, and yet there are those here in this very thread who are soo bitter, so anti British, and so Anti the memory of our very own Irish WWI & WWII fallen, as to be obnoxious in the extreme.

If people want to wear poppies at this time of year then let us, I will have mine on today (poppy seller at my church). and I will keep it in my lapel from now until after the 11th, always have done always will do, and I have never encountered any problems on the streets of Dublin, Dun Laoghaire or Blackrock for that matter!

Its a personal choice, and in my case I have family connections to both World Wars (as many other Irish people do) hence my decision to commemorate their memory by wearing my poppy, whilst also making a small donation/contribution to the Irish Poppy appeal fund in Dublin.

billybudd

LordSutch wrote: »

Well then, that wipes out the entire Protestant population of the South for a start, who must be something other than Irish in your estimation?

Thing is though, that even Sinn Fein has moved on and have made the decision to let those who wish to commorate the Irish dead from the two world wars to do so without ridicule, God knows even Martin McGuinness & Co don't keep banging the drum about the brit loving poppy wearing 'West Brits' wearing their Poppies, and yet there are those here in this very thread who are soo bitter, so anti British, and so Anti the memory of our very own Irish WWI & WWII fallen, as to be obnoxious in the extreme.

If people want to wear poppies at this time of year then let us, I will have mine on today (poppy seller at my church). and I will keep it in my lapel from now until after the 11th, always have done always will do, and I have never encountered any problems on the streets of Dublin, Dun Laoghaire or Blackrock for that matter!

Its a personal choice, and in my case I have family connections to both World Wars (as many other Irish people do) hence my decision to commemorate their memory by wearing my poppy, whilst also making a small donation/contribution to the Irish Poppy appeal fund in Dublin.

I doubt the proud nationalist protestant people do.

LordSutch

Do what?

billybudd

LordSutch wrote: »

Do what?

Wear a poppy, and furthermore being a protestant in Ireland does not mean you are automatically aligned to the crown or even have a family heritage to it, it is a religion and not a national identity.

philologos

Bohemian1890 wrote: »

Ask any honest, law abiding Nationalist that lived in a Nationalist area in the north of Ireland during the troubles should it be worn by an Irish person and you'd see what they'd tell you. IMO any Irish person who wears it is not worthy of calling themselves Irish.

That sounds a touch bigoted to be honest. Just because other Irish people hold a different opinion to you means that they can't be Irish in earnest. I guess I should just go stateless then

By the by, who says that people who live in Republican areas of the North should dictate what I and other Irish people do? That's rather a bizarre notion if you ask me .

As I've mentioned at least 3 times, the poppy has broader significance than glorifying British military action as you and others have ignorantly claimed.

billybudd wrote: »

Wear a poppy, and furthermore being a protestant in Ireland does not mean you are automatically aligned to the crown or even have a family heritage to it, it is a religion and not a national identity.

I know quite a few Irish people who would identify themselves as supporting the Irish republic who would wear it.

I think what LordSutch is getting at is that Church of Ireland churches in Ireland (both Northern Ireland and the Republic) have held Remembrance Day services and have had poppies sold at their churches. Remembrance Sunday is a part of the church calendar.

The other logical question to ask is who the heck are you to tell people what to do? Since when did you become the ultimate definition of who is Irish?

LordSutch

billybudd wrote: »

Wear a poppy, and furthermore being a protestant in Ireland does not mean you are automatically aligned to the crown or even have a family heritage to it, it is a religion and not a national identity.

Correct, although Christian denomination would be a better term than religion.

Fratton Fred

Spread wrote: »

If the mighty British Army couldn't defeat the IRA how do you think they'll beat insurrections that are better armed. FFS try and clean up some of the third world slums in your own country before tidying up the rest of the world. If the money spent on foreign adventures was diverted towards education the greater good would have been served and the per capita IQ raised a little.
The paranoia that emerges from Little Englanders is not healthy for the British psyche.

From an Irishman living in the states, priceless.

Who are the IRA again? Are they the ones that wanted a united Ireland?

Yeah, looks like they won alright.

billybudd

philologos wrote: »

That sounds a touch bigoted to be honest. Just because other Irish people hold a different opinion to you means that they can't be Irish in earnest. I guess I should just go stateless then

By the by, who says that people who live in Republican areas of the North should dictate what I and other Irish people do? That's rather a bizarre notion if you ask me .

As I've mentioned at least 3 times, the poppy has broader significance than glorifying British military action as you and others have ignorantly claimed.


I know quite a few Irish people who would identify themselves as supporting the Irish republic who would wear it.

I think what LordSutch is getting at is that Church of Ireland churches in Ireland (both Northern Ireland and the Republic) have held Remembrance Day services and have had poppies sold at their churches. Remembrance Sunday is a part of the church calendar.

The other logical question to ask is who the heck are you to tell people what to do? Since when did you become the ultimate definition of who is Irish?

Where did i tell people what to do? or what defines a Irish person? What defines a Irish person is being a citizen of Ireland and not what church they go to or what they celebrate.

The point i was making was that you can not lump everyone into the same catergory.

bobbysands81

Japer wrote: »

I was at a concert once + a bucket went around for the IRA / their supporters.

The difference is the Omagh bombers and PIRA are terrorist movements, and do / did not have the support of elected governments. Extremist republicans actually murdered police + army in this (26 county ) state.

According to the United States definition of a terrorist state Britain is one.

Nodin

Japer wrote: »

but you think it was ok to let Iraq invade and rape little Kuwait?

No. Whats that to do with the 2nd Iraq war?

Do you think it was ok to torture Greeks who wanted to be independent?
Do you think it was ok to gun down and torture Africans who wanted to be independent?

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

Well then, that wipes out the entire Protestant population of the South for a start, who must be something other than Irish in your estimation?.

Please don't project your politics onto the protestant population.

lelantos wrote:

No, incorrect. The NGA is a supposed non party affiliated organisation, but it was run by IRA members, so that wasn't true. The vast majority of sales went to Sinn Féin & other organizations.

You've a source for that?

philologos

Nodin wrote: »

Please don't project your politics onto the protestant population.

That's not the point. It's not about projecting anything. In the Anglican liturgical calendar in Ireland there is Remembrance Sunday. Are you saying by holding a Remembrance Sunday service in a CofI church every year that it is "projecting politics" onto their congregation, or is it just a time to remember the dead at war every year?

I think that people who criticise this generally don't understand the role that this plays in the CofI in particular.

Lelantos

Nodin wrote: »

Please don't project your politics onto the protestant population.



You've a source for that?

See above posts, associate members are Sinn fein & even sitting committe members have spoken at IRA & sinn fein meetings & gatherings. For anyone to say there is not a link..well its just not true.

Nodin

Lelantos wrote: »

See above posts, associate members are Sinn fein & even sitting committe members have spoken at IRA & sinn fein meetings & gatherings. For anyone to say there is not a link..well its just not true.

You stated

The NGA is a supposed non party affiliated organisation, but it was run by IRA members, so that wasn't true. The vast majority of sales went to Sinn Féin & other organizations.

Those are very specific allegations.

Do you have a source to show that (a) the NGA was run by IRA members and (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations".

indioblack

mattjack wrote: »

Only eight more days left , thank God and the spaghetti monster above for the poll results we will receive.Jesus wep't them Germans have a lot to answer for.

Not the Germans - just people who pleasure themselves with their sense of outrage - a storm in a teacup.

ejmaztec

Are we there yet?

indioblack

Spread wrote: »

Admittedly they moved at Dunkirk. Now if the British runers could emulate their forefathers ......... they might win some sprints in the Olympics.
Good morning Fred!

Dunkirk? This thread is certainly getting around. What would you rather have happened at Dunkirk - something like the Alamo?

indioblack

Spread wrote: »

If the mighty British Army couldn't defeat the IRA how do you think they'll beat insurrections that are better armed. FFS try and clean up some of the third world slums in your own country before tidying up the rest of the world. If the money spent on foreign adventures was diverted towards education the greater good would have been served and the per capita IQ raised a little.
The paranoia that emerges from Little Englanders is not healthy for the British psyche.

Just as the American army couldn't defeat the VietCong? There was a helluva lot of collateral damage there - and they used everything short of nuclear weapons.

Lelantos

Nodin wrote: »

You stated



Those are very specific allegations.

Do you have a source to show that (a) the NGA was run by IRA members and (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations".

Again, look at the associate members of the organisation, see where the members of the groups meet, see who goes to those meetings. I'm guessing you're going to tell us next that Provo groups never made money from drugs & the NGA are our version of the women's institute.

gurramok

philologos wrote: »

By the by, who says that people who live in Republican areas of the North should dictate what I and other Irish people do? That's rather a bizarre notion if you ask me .

Its grossly offensive to commemorate, fund and praise soldiers who murdered their loved ones on the streets of Nationalist and Republican communities in NI.

GRMA

Why won't people wear a white poppy which remembers all victims of war? Like Frankie Boyle did www.anphoblacht.com/contents/22423

And not a British Nationalist symbol.

GRMA

Lelantos wrote: »

Again, look at the associate members of the organisation, see where the members of the groups meet, see who goes to those meetings. I'm guessing you're going to tell us next that Provo groups never made money from drugs & the NGA are our version of the women's institute.

So that's a No then, you're just making things up.

mattjack

ejmaztec wrote: »

Are we there yet?

If you say that one more time, this thread will go right back to the start.

indioblack

gurramok wrote: »

Its grossly offensive to commemorate, fund and praise soldiers who murdered their loved ones on the streets of Nationalist and Republican communities in NI.

Perhaps these people can be identified, their offences confirmed - and then they can be individually be excluded from any commemoration or funding.

gurramok

indioblack wrote: »

Perhaps these people can be identified, their offences confirmed - and then they can be individually be excluded from any commemoration or funding.

They haven't as none have been convicted of murder, a big cover up. Most of the perpetrators would be now retired soldiers, fully receiving their army pensions as if they did nothing wrong. Of course if your suggestion did actually happen, it would be a step forward in reconciliation on the poppy issue.

philologos

gurramok wrote: »

Its grossly offensive to commemorate, fund and praise soldiers who murdered their loved ones on the streets of Nationalist and Republican communities in NI.

People don't have a right not to be offended. The primary purpose of the Remembrance Sunday is to remember those who have lost their lives in armed conflict. If you're going to get offended over a few people deciding to remember the dead at war on November 11th or the nearest Sunday, and to wear a red poppy due to a poem written by a Canadian in 1915 that's your prerogative.

Don't expect everyone around you to conform to your expectations. People disagree with you, and this is why tolerance is welcome. Agreeing to disagree is one of the most valuable tools in Western society.

billybudd

philologos wrote: »

That's not the point. It's not about projecting anything. In the Anglican liturgical calendar in Ireland there is Remembrance Sunday. Are you saying by holding a Remembrance Sunday service in a CofI church every year that it is "projecting politics" onto their congregation, or is it just a time to remember the dead at war every year?

I think that people who criticise this generally don't understand the role that this plays in the CofI in particular.

A question, would you wear a double badge that remembers Irish & British victims of the war, one a lilly and one a poppy, side by side?