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SUPPORT for victims of sexual assault thread - mod warning post #1

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Comments

  • #62
    Meteoric
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭Meteoric


    a


  • #63
    stripysocks85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,877 ✭✭✭stripysocks85


    Again, I was referring to the original post where she said her friend was 'basically' raped, and I added my own thought in reference to the drunk situations. That's all. Perhaps I was misunderstood or something, but just giving MY opinion/experiences on the matter.

    And Caraville - where did I say I had no sympathy?

    People are reading WAAAY too much into this & exaggerating.


  • #64
    Sul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭Sul


    Just a few things I'd like to add. Women are usually raped by someone they know. Rape is not always necessarily about 'being horny'...its about power and aggression. Just because a women is too scared to protest does not make it consensual. Being drunk doesnt make it consensual. No man worth his salt would take advantage of a drunk girl or continue with a girl who is clearly uncomfortable.
    Being touched/groped/spoken to inappropriately is considered sexual assault. Think of work. If a person speaks to another in a sexual inappropriate manner they would be fired for sexual harassment.
    I also feel that a lot of people need to educate themselves on what is and isn't appropriate. It seems like a lot of women dont know what and what and a lot of men dont know the boundries.
    I tell you this for nothing. If a man ever touched me on the ass without my say so he'd be eating through a straw for a month.
    Educate yourselves and know what is what.


  • #65
    neuro-praxis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,184 ✭✭✭neuro-praxis


    Sul wrote: »
    I tell you this for nothing. If a man ever touched me on the ass without my say so he'd be eating through a straw for a month.
    Educate yourselves and know what is what.

    I understand the sentiment but this is just not realistic, not to mention a dangerous attitude for you to have. There is a reason women are easily overpowered by men.


  • #66
    amdublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    greyarea123 wrote: »
    Drink is a big problem. I know of someone who was back at a house party and was pissed. This was her biggest 'crime'. She was with someone consenually and during the night she went sleepwalking, eyes open, butt naked but totally out of it. She fell and was found by a another guy who lived in the house. Whatever happened next we don't know as she has little to no recollection of what happened at all but she does know that she ended up in the housemate's room and when she came to, he was having sex with her. He had a bit of drink in him too. Would you call this sexual assault or was it her own fault for being so drunk and out of it?? From the responses in this thread I presume people will say the latter.

    Initally my friend completely blamed herself for being so drunk, it actually took several days before the severity of the incident hit home with her, she is still distraught about it a whole year later but she never reported anything. She told the bloke that she was with consensually that night what happened and his reaction was 'don't worry, these things happen when you're drunk', he is still friends with his housemate but they're not living together any more.

    In my opinion the housemate took complete advantage of her and any decent bloke would have turned her around and sent her back to the room that she came from. The sad thing is from the reaction on this thread maybe people think it's the girl's own fault. I find that horrifying to be honest. The scary thing is I have heard similiar stories over the years, usually all involving drink, so I'd say this type of thing happens a lot more than we realise. People need to stop thinking that just because you are drunk then you aren't raped or sexually assaulted. If anything women become more of an easy target when they are drunk.

    But if she doesn't know what happened then how can it be honestly labelled as rape or not :confused:
    Eg. He took advantage of her, yes it's assault.
    But what if when she met him she was amourous and flirty and told him she wanted to have sex, then it's not assault.
    What actually happened in this scenario is completely unknown.


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  • #67
    IHeartShoes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭IHeartShoes


    newmug wrote: »
    This thing of "Oh I was drunk and he felt me up" or "I rode him without any protest whatsoever cos I didnt know the consequences if I didnt" is NOT sexual assault, and its pure bull to paint it as such. If you were drunk, chances are the man was too and yiz were both doing what people do when they're drunk, and if you dont tell someone you dont want something to happen, well they cant bloodywell read your mind!

    To me, rape is being followed down an alley (or TRAPPED in some other way), being beaten up, and being FORCED to have sex with a gun or a knife.


    Some aul fella having a **** on the bus behind you, while unpleasant, is far from rape. He is, quite literally, a wanker. Did you scream or make a fuss? Did you get up and move somewhere else?


    I find the content and tone of this posting ignorant and offensive in the extreme.


  • #68
    Sul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭Sul


    @Neuro
    The point I was making is that people think too lightly of touching or groping where it is just as serious. I personally would and have taken men down a peg or two for inappropriately touching me, granted it has happened in public, but I definitely dont find it funny or something to be laughed at.
    I do however completely understand what you mean about the dangers of fighting back.


  • #69
    wasislos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭wasislos


    I had my ass grabbed a handful of times wen I was better lookin. Jus a bit of fun especially on a nite out. Some lads take it too far wat is this its about dominating the chick thats revolting id pit it down horny joe tbfair. It cud become domoneering cos the girls have all the power and consent the man is ego is that he is the main man the protwctor suppose it goes to their head sometimes proly why so many men in jail


  • #70
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    amdublin wrote: »
    greyarea123 wrote: »
    Drink is a big problem. I know of someone who was back at a house party and was pissed. This was her biggest 'crime'. She was with someone consenually and during the night she went sleepwalking, eyes open, butt naked but totally out of it. She fell and was found by a another guy who lived in the house. Whatever happened next we don't know as she has little to no recollection of what happened at all but she does know that she ended up in the housemate's room and when she came to, he was having sex with her. He had a bit of drink in him too. Would you call this sexual assault or was it her own fault for being so drunk and out of it?? From the responses in this thread I presume people will say the latter.

    Initally my friend completely blamed herself for being so drunk, it actually took several days before the severity of the incident hit home with her, she is still distraught about it a whole year later but she never reported anything. She told the bloke that she was with consensually that night what happened and his reaction was 'don't worry, these things happen when you're drunk', he is still friends with his housemate but they're not living together any more.

    In my opinion the housemate took complete advantage of her and any decent bloke would have turned her around and sent her back to the room that she came from. The sad thing is from the reaction on this thread maybe people think it's the girl's own fault. I find that horrifying to be honest. The scary thing is I have heard similiar stories over the years, usually all involving drink, so I'd say this type of thing happens a lot more than we realise. People need to stop thinking that just because you are drunk then you aren't raped or sexually assaulted. If anything women become more of an easy target when they are drunk.

    But if she doesn't know what happened then how can it be honestly labelled as rape or not :confused:
    Eg. He took advantage of her, yes it's assault.
    But what if when she met him she was amourous and flirty and told him she wanted to have sex
    When found passed out on the floor after drunkenly sleepwalking and then falling?


  • #71
    amdublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Dudess wrote: »
    When found passed out on the floor after drunkenly sleepwalking and then falling?

    Yes that happened.

    Then a gap.

    Then she remembers having sex with the guy.

    Why is this his "fault"?
    Is it not more a "responsibility" of both parties :confused:


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  • #72
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    amdublin wrote: »
    Yes that happened.

    Then a gap.

    Then she remembers having sex with the guy.

    Why is this his "fault"?
    Is it not more a "responsibility" of both parties :confused:

    Depends...if she was totally out of it drunk and he was relatively sober I think its rape. I don't know many men who can get it up while their pissed anyway.


  • #73
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    amdublin wrote: »
    Dudess wrote: »
    When found passed out on the floor after drunkenly sleepwalking and then falling?

    Yes that happened.

    Then a gap.

    Then she remembers having sex with the guy.

    Why is this his "fault"?
    Is it not more a "responsibility" of both parties :confused:
    She was out of it - she regained consciousness while he was penetrating her. I think it's fair to say she wasn't in a fit condition to give consent - and he would have known that.
    There was a gap? Exactly. A pretty cast-iron piece of proof that she was seriously out if it. Even if she had drunkenly slurred a friendly conversation with him, the fact he'd actually have sex with a girl in that condition is staggering...


  • #74
    Sul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭Sul


    If a women wakes up confused to a man having sex with her then it is rape. What sort of man would have sex with a women who is excessively drunk or asleep??
    People are too quick to judge a person who is drunk saying things like 'Oh she asked for it'. How?
    The same goes for women who dress provocatively or who are flirty. No women asks to be raped. Get that straight.


  • #75
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I don't know many men who can get it up while their pissed anyway.

    Don't know about that, have to be very drunk for that to be the case, bit drunk and its usually a problem getting rid of it.

    I do find it scary how many girls have said on here that they have been sexually assaulted in some way. I think part of the problem may be the blurriness of the line and lack of awareness as to where the line is.

    For example I remember one time one a nite out I was quite drunk and ended up kissing a girl who was even more drunk, and who was well out of my league shall we say. We were dancing I 'lobbed the gob' as they say and kissed her for a minute. Now it wasn't a case of me forcing myself on her in anyway, she did kiss back. However I very much doubt she would have choosen to kiss me, she just went with what was happening. I'd no interest because of this so left her after a minute, still drunkenly boasted to friends I'd kissed her mind.

    Now I wouldn't class this as sexual assault but its probably not far off in some ways.


  • #76
    Sul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭Sul


    @Xiro
    No this wouldn't be classed as assault. Ive had a few sneaky snogs with guys that I wouldn't particularly have done had I been sober but I certainly wouldn't class it as assault. You didnt pester her or force yourself on her, you went for the kill and got a cheeky kiss.
    What is classed as assault is forcing a girl to go further than the snog. Not listening to a girl say no and being insistent. This can caused a girl to clam up and give up a fight or go silent. But you should be able to tell if a person is uncomfortable and stop. Which you did. You sensed she wasnt entirely up for it and decided not to pursue it. Another man might not have.


  • #77
    howsyourtusk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭howsyourtusk


    Sweet merciful christ, if a guy comes across a girl who's twisted drunk and proceeds to have sex with her that is definitely rape. You see guys preying on girls like that in niteclubs all the time.

    I am a man, when I have sex with someone I want them to be there with me, conscious, enjoying it and fully capable of saying no to anything they're uncomfortable with. Otherwise it is rape, plain and simple.


  • #78
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    It's happened to me many times when I've been blackout drunk and over the next week find out I had seemingly perfect lucid conversations for hours during the time that I have no memory of. If I were in such a state where to just about everyone I seem fine and got with a girl who was sober would that be her sexually assaulting me?


  • #79
    howsyourtusk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭howsyourtusk


    amacachi wrote: »
    It's happened to me many times when I've been blackout drunk and over the next week find out I had seemingly perfect lucid conversations for hours during the time that I have no memory of. If I were in such a state where to just about everyone I seem fine and got with a girl who was sober would that be her sexually assaulting me?

    Not remembering something you done is entirely different than being almost unconsciously drunk and being unable to function.

    Spin it around, you come home with a girl who's barely conscious while drunk. Do you think it's ok to have sex with her?


  • #80
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    howsyourtusk wrote: »
    Not remembering something you done is entirely different than being almost unconsciously drunk and being unable to function.

    Spin it around, you come home with a girl who's barely conscious while drunk. Do you think it's ok to have sex with her?

    That's not my point. If I'm in no state to consent to anything but it's not obvious to the other person are they to blame?

    Since you asked, I basically have to get jumped to ever do anything sexual with someone.


  • #81
    Sul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭Sul


    Theres a difference between not being able to remember and not being able to function....if you were so drunk you couldn't function then you probably would find it very hard to become sexually active.


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  • #82
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    i found a friend of mine locked drunk going no while this lad was undressing her in a bedroom at a party once

    i threw him down the stairs and he rolled and ran out the front door and by the time i got out the door he was gone

    and friends of his at the party started giving me grief and even when i explained and the girl explained there was an air of ******* is a nice bloke this is terrible what you did

    i hate people sometimes


  • #83
    Sul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭Sul


    If you were in no state to consent it would be very obvious!!!!
    Look there are girls out there who have gone out, got drunk and had a few one night stands that they regret. What we are talking about is guys who take advantage of a girl who can barely talk....


  • #84
    howsyourtusk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭howsyourtusk


    amacachi wrote: »
    That's not my point. If I'm in no state to consent to anything but it's not obvious to the other person are they to blame?

    Since you asked, I basically have to get jumped to ever do anything sexual with someone.

    How would it not be obvious? A simple: "would you like to have sex?" and a clear response of: "yes" would make it obvious. Why would anyone want to have sex with someone, male or female, if they're in "no state to consent"?


  • #85
    howsyourtusk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭howsyourtusk


    Tigger wrote: »
    i found a friend of mine locked drunk going no while this lad was undressing her in a bedroom at a party once

    i threw him down the stairs and he rolled and ran out the front door and by the time i got out the door he was gone

    and friends of his at the party started giving me grief and even when i explained and the girl explained there was an air of ******* is a nice bloke this is terrible what you did

    i hate people sometimes

    But sure she was drunk. Probably wearing slutty clothes too. Didn't she flirt with him too? Probably made eyes at him all night :rolleyes:


  • #86
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    howsyourtusk wrote: »
    How would it not be obvious? A simple: "would you like to have sex?" and a clear response of: "yes" would make it obvious. Why would anyone want to have sex with someone, male or female, if they're in "no state to consent"?

    This is what I'm getting at, where is the line where one cannot consent and where the other person can be blamed for misreading a situation? If someone seems fine to consent then is that it?

    As for the idea of not being able to do anything when ****faced, bull****.


  • #87
    howsyourtusk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭howsyourtusk


    amacachi wrote: »
    This is what I'm getting at, where is the line where one cannot consent and where the other person can be blamed for misreading a situation? If someone seems fine to consent then is that it?

    Misreading? You do realise you need to obtain consent from someone before you have sex with them? I do myself believe in implicit consent when you're in a situation with someone you know and trust but if you're just after meeting someone and are on a drunken night out then you need to obtain explicit and coherent consent from that person before you have sex with them.

    You seem to be skirting around the issue of why anyone would want to have sex with someone who's barely conscious, can I ask you about that again?


  • #88
    howsyourtusk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭howsyourtusk


    amacachi wrote: »

    As for the idea of not being able to do anything when ****faced, bull****.

    You're trying to imply that everyone here is being a hypocrite because if the situation is reversed we wouldn't think a guy was being raped if a girl climbed on top of him while he was out of it. Let me be clear, that is rape in my eyes too.


  • #89
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    howsyourtusk wrote: »
    Misreading? You do realise you need to obtain consent from someone before you have sex with them? I do myself believe in implicit consent when you're in a situation with someone you know and trust but if you're just after meeting someone and are on a drunken night out then you need to obtain explicit and coherent consent from that person before you have sex with them.
    How many drinks before someone can't give consent?
    You seem to be skirting around the issue of why anyone would want to have sex with someone who's barely conscious, can I ask you about that again?
    You'll have to ask the people who are into that. I'm not talking about people who are passed out, I'm talking about someone who seems fine.


  • #90
    Sul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭Sul


    Think about it...a girl lying on a bed, barely able to talk, hardly contributing, so drunk that she probably couldn't put up a fight....is she consenting? Or are you taking advantage of her weak state?


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  • #91
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    howsyourtusk wrote: »
    You're trying to imply that everyone here is being a hypocrite because if the situation is reversed we wouldn't think a guy was being raped if a girl climbed on top of him while he was out of it. Let me be clear, that is rape in my eyes too.
    No I'm not, I'm pointing out that something that was said is rubbish.


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