SUPPORT for victims of sexual assault thread - mod warning post #1

Sonics2k

Yes, it absolutely does need to be reported more. I've said this on each and every post. I've also said that it needs to change when men are sexually assaulted.

I have never ever ever tried to take away from how important it is for people to report it.

LegacyUser

I'm going un-reg for this, I have experienced this before, as some people have said the shock was what stopped me doing anything. i wasn't raped, in the legal definition but there was definitely unwanted contact. A few years ago when I was 25 I was on on a night out (not drunk) with friends, I had been in a relationship with one of the guys a few years previously, when I was about 19. It was my first relationship, it was brief and he didn't treat me very well, although I didn't realise at the time, as I got older I seen how naive I had been.

At the end of the night out (when I was 25) this guy walked me home, we talked and the time we were together and I spoke at lenght about how it had he had not been very respectful of me and he apologiesed. Anyway he asked to stay as he didn't have the cash for a taxi. I said yes, sadly. I woke up in the middle of the night to him on top of me trying to have sex. I was so shocked, it took a few seconds for me to even figure out what was going on. I said no, he didn't believe me at first but then backed off. I just went back asleep, but it really was down to shock. After I thought about why I didnt just throw him out, or call the gardai but it was shock. He was someone who I called a friend for 10 years.

After the conversation that we had earlier in the night, and the fact that I was alseep when he started there is no way I was consenting. He was disgusting and chancing his arm. I stayed friends with him for a while after because I hadn't let myself accept how badly he betrayed my trust or how disgusting what happened really was Its been years since and only now can I really say that I was not in the wrong, it was understandable that I was so shocked I didn't kick him out.

Like the OP I have discussed this incident with friends who have similar stories. I think catholic Ireland has a lot to answer for. Women/girls of my age have such guilt associated with sex, and we are conditioned to think that we must please men, that sex is for men. Sure isn't it all they want (sarcasm)

We with-hold and men go to all lengths to get it, thats what I learned as a young woman.
(sorry about long post!!!)

Sul

In fairness all reports of rape should be taken seriously. If a garda decides not to take a report serious because the last accusation he/she worked on turned out to be false then he/she is not doing his/her job right...

Giselle

Like a lot of people on this thread, I've had two experiences that I've failed to process as assaults or sexually threatening incidents.

I include one rather serious one when I was about seven years old. I didn't tell anyone about it, because I thought I'd done something wrong for it to happen to me. I didn't know how it could be my fault. I just was afraid I'd be told it was. I didn't want to get into trouble.

I'm starting to think the real number of unreported assaults might be even higher than estimated. First of all, the victim has to realise it was an assault, and lots of stories here are of people framing it differently in order to cope or dismiss it.

I'm one of them.

Wompa1

Dudess wrote: »

It might not suit you, but it's valid - and the coterie of guys who make a point of posting here to blame women/feminism for sexism against men would do well to bear it in mind.

There's a lot of girls who say they'd love to hook up with an athlete. Does that mean an athlete can be assumed innocent of rape because a lot of women would have sex with a guy because of his status?

Whatever about feminism, that's just crazy logic that a lot men say they'd love to be sexually harassed so it's ok!

Wompa1

Wompa1 wrote: »

There's a lot of girls who say they'd love to hook up with an athlete. Does that mean an athlete can be assumed innocent of rape because a lot of women would have sex with a guy because of his status?

Whatever about feminism, that's just crazy logic that a lot men say they'd love to be sexually harassed so it's ok!

what on earth are you on about

Wompa1

bluewolf wrote: »

what on earth are you on about

Oops meant to multi-quote there was a response with a girl saying that guys who claims they would love to be sexually harassed in some way made it more acceptable when it happens to guys.

I was drawing a comparison. That a lot of girls would love to get the ride off a sports man. If a girl was sexually harassed by one or raped. Would the logic be that well most girls would love to be touched up by a famous sports man so it's not a big deal?

Ickle Magoo

Wompa1 wrote: »

Oops meant to multi-quote there was a response with a girl saying that guys who claims they would love to be sexually harassed in some way made it more acceptable when it happens to guys.

I was drawing a comparison. That a lot of girls would love to get the ride off a sports man. If a girl was sexually harassed by one or raped. Would the logic be that well most girls would love to be touched up by a famous sports man so it's not a big deal?

I think you are missing the point by a country mile...the point being made, I believe, was not that women think it's not a big deal that men get sexually assaulted - I think you'll find many women unfortunately have first hand experience of the fear and humiliation involved and thus have a lot of sympathy/empathy for anyone who suffers sexual assault - it's MEN making light of other men being sexually assaulted that perpetuates the attitude that it isn't or shouldn't be AS big a deal for men...not sure what any of that has to do with the subject of this thread tho...

LegacyUser

Yes, I have been.
When I was 15 I was in my aunts house with my mum around Christmas time. At one stage my mum and my aunt went out for an hour and I was left in the house with my aunts husband. I always got on well with him growing up and he had never acted inappropriately with me before so I thought I would be safe.
We had just finished decorating the Christmas tree when my uncle went to the kitchen and got a beer. I was sitting on the couch looking at the decorations and next thing I know he's on top of me with his hands on my breasts and ass. I pushed him away and ran upstairs to get my things (I know it sounds stupid but all I could think was "Grab your things and leave.")
I ran to where I knew my mum and aunt would be and I waited for them to come out. When my mum saw me she asked me was I ok and I just told her that I wasn't feeling well and that I needed to go home. So we left.

I totally blocked the incident from my mind. So much so, that the next time I was in the house, I had forgotten the incident completely. This time, I was staying over in the house with my mum. I felt an undercurrent of uneasiness but couldn't pinpoint exactly why. Looking back, I guess it was my way of coping with what had happened.
During the night I woke up to use the loo. I went downstairs to use the bathroom and when I came out, my aunts husband was standing in his underwear in the living room. In that instant, I remembered what had happened before and tried to leave but he was blocking the door. He grabbed me so hard I couldn't get away. He then whispered in my ear all the things he wanted to do to me and started to touch me. After a minute or two I managed to break free and I ran upstairs back to my mum. I didn't sleep a wink after that.
The next day I made sure we left early before anyone noticed something was up. I eventually told my parents a few days later after having an emotional breakdown in school. The guards were informed and I filed a report although I didn't bring the matter to court.
9 years later it's still something I find hard to think about or discuss in any detail. I can't be around people who make jokes referring to sexual assault or rape. It just upsets me too much.
My aunt knows about the incident but she's still with him (he's now a raging alcoholic) she claims she has nowhere to go. It's something I'll never understand or be able to forgive her for.

Dudess

Wompa1 wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

It might not suit you, but it's valid - and the coterie of guys who make a point of posting here to blame women/feminism for sexism against men would do well to bear it in mind.

There's a lot of girls who say they'd love to hook up with an athlete. Does that mean an athlete can be assumed innocent of rape because a lot of women would have sex with a guy because of his status?

Whatever about feminism, that's just crazy logic that a lot men say they'd love to be sexually harassed so it's ok!

Lol. Where the hell did I say it's ok?!

Wibbs

Kimia wrote: »

What's blowing my mind about this thread is that there are so many women who have been sexually assaulted and have NOT accused anyone. I think you place too much emphasis on the rare crazies tbh.

My personal experience though hardly statistically valid would bear this out. In my life I knew of one case where a woman pulled the accusation and yes she was eye swivelingly batpoop crazy. She got drunk, thought she was a sexual John Wayne and slipped and fell on a lads willy and thought better of it in the morning and tried to make his life hell. One case ranged against a disturbing amount of women mates, exes and acquaintances of mine that have had a wide spectrum of well dubious unwanted sexual attention up to and including "classic" rape by a stranger.

Now bear in mind I can be Mr Paranoid of No 1 Disbelief Road and don't led the mod of this forum title fool ye. EG I'm a bloke who is happy to admit that I'd trust a woman of 25 who said she was on the pill more than I would a woman of 35(I'd still wear a latex hat regardless). However when it comes to a background level of sexual threat I have no doubt women suffer that much more than many men would believe. Even the "right on" types. It's like background noise for them. A tinnitus of socio-sexual experience. Even the plainest woman has usually had more sexual advances and attention, both good and bad than most very handsome men.

Now let me be very clear as my opinion on this goes; it's actually a small minority of men. I have no truck with the vibe of "all men are potential rapists". A meme with some, but thankfully few and that few I have no issue with calling fcukwits. This small minority of men seem to be more proactive though. Plus it's a complex issue. There are scales of assault and scales of assaulters and you can have serious grey areas. Meeting someone on a one night stand doesn't have written contracts of procedure with a yay or nay. For either side. Thank god(s). So confusion can set it, especially with drink taken. And yes some of the ladies out there do like to play the game of "hard to get" and indeed can get irritated if you back off. You can see where confusion might arise. However one real simple confusion buster is this; if she says no, take it as read. If she's still playing games, do you really want to risk sleeping with someone like that? And if you think "no" is a turn on? Get help.

My 3 cents anyway

neuro-praxis

Wibbs wrote: »

In my life I knew of one case where a woman pulled the accusation and yes she was eye swivelingly batpoop crazy. She got drunk, thought she was a sexual John Wayne and slipped and fell on a lads willy and thought better of it in the morning and tried to make his life hell. One case ranged against a disturbing amount of women mates, exes and acquaintances of mine that have had a wide spectrum of well dubious unwanted sexual attention up to and including "classic" rape by a stranger.

I have no idea what you are saying here.

For one thing, crazy women get raped too, you know. Wtf is thinking you are a sexual John Wayne? Slipping and falling on a lads willy? Considering the sensitive nature of this topic you might be a little more clear and a little more kind.

Wibbs

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I have no idea what you are saying here.

I'm saying she was crazy, she went for this guy full on(and he took some convincing), then regretted this in the morning(for god knows what reason) and then decided she was raped and spread this around as much as she could. Fin.

PS maybe you should read posts more thoroughly cos where you got I was a sexual John Wayne is quite beyond me. EDIT, Apologies now I see what you're getting at. Translation? She was the one in the saddle/on top, not him.

Kimia

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm saying she was crazy, she went for this guy full on(and he took some convincing), then regretted this in the morning(for god knows what reason) and then decided she was raped and spread this around as much as she could. Fin.

PS maybe you should read posts more thoroughly cos where you got I was a sexual John Wayne is quite beyond me.

Genuinely curious here, but how did you know she wasn't raped? Did she come clean after?

Also what I think NP was saying was not that you are a sexual John Wayne, but how does one think they are a sexual John Wayne.. as in what does that even mean..

amacachi

Dudess wrote: »

It might not suit you, but it's valid - and the coterie of guys who make a point of posting here to blame women/feminism for sexism against men would do well to bear it in mind.

If I were to turn it around and try to say that since nearly half of women have rape fantasies they're not exactly helping things it would rightly be pointed out that it was a ridiculous argument.

Morag

The argument has been put forward that the term rape be dropped and that there would be just be differing degrees of sexual assault, l can understand the thinking behind it, rape is still such a taboo word and as posts here have show most people will find away to soften the word rather then just straight out use it.

The idea being more people may come forward and press charges if it was all classified as sexual assault.

The Black Oil

A year or so ago I was coming out of the gates of TCD and an elderly man made some sleazy comment at a young girl re her shoes/body. I felt pretty embarrassed by this sharing his gender and all. The girl was obviously somewhat more uncomfortable.

I remember in school our year head talking about sexual harassment...sounded difficult to deal with from a school/teacher perspective.

Dudess

amacachi wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

It might not suit you, but it's valid - and the coterie of guys who make a point of posting here to blame women/feminism for sexism against men would do well to bear it in mind.

If I were to turn it around and try to say that since nearly half of women have rape fantasies they're not exactly helping things it would rightly be pointed out that it was a ridiculous argument.

Except you're not going to hear/read women on a discussion about rape saying "Ah get over it, at least you got some; I'd love to be raped..."

amacachi

Dudess wrote: »

Except you're not going to hear/read women on a discussion about rape saying "Ah get over it, at least you got some; I'd love to be raped..."

Most posts be sarcastic or joking on those threads you mentioned. And even if people say that seriously it's still fantasy.

Wibbs

Kimia wrote: »

Genuinely curious here, but how did you know she wasn't raped? Did she come clean after?

Yes. After two months of accusations and numerous witnesses who had a completely different story. If anything she was the predator in this case. Like I say nutter. TBH I find it odd that some concentrate on the one off case I put forward where the woman was talking without recourse to her mouth yet ignore the rest where I pointed out the majority were not. And I called myself paranoid and disbelieving in the same post?

Wibbs

Sharrow wrote: »

The argument has been put forward that the term rape be dropped and that there would be just be differing degrees of sexual assault, l can understand the thinking behind it, rape is still such a taboo word and as posts here have show most people will find away to soften the word rather then just straight out use it.

and/or like murder and other crimes against the person there are degrees that should be taken into account?

The idea being more people may come forward and press charges if it was all classified as sexual assault.

If nothing else this would be a very good thing.

ladypip

Jesus.........I've been reading this thread from the start and even contributed a incident of my own, I really thought id be one of a handful of women that had experienced something and didn't report it. Its pretty shocking and scary to read all of these experiences. I really should have my fifteen year old neice read this thread as she heads off out into this kind of world. I feel sick.

Morag

Wibbs wrote: »

and/or like murder and other crimes against the person there are degrees that should be taken into account?

Pretty much, we all ready have sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault under irish law.

lazygal

I've just been reading all the replies and I wanted to add a few things.

I don't want to go into great detail about my 'incident' but there was no drink involved. Me and the man I was with were both sober and hadn't drunk any alcohol. It is an incident that I've had on my mind off and on since three years ago, when it happened, and I think in my deepest moments of reflection on it I do feel that he was in the wrong. As evidenced by others' experiences it was up to me to report the incident but only when this happened to me did I realise how complicated and difficult it is to report a crime of a sexual nature. There's a lot of emotions and other things that come into play, along with how the adversarial legal system deals with victims and the tight-knit nature of Irish social groups. I see my ex on a pretty regular basis because of the relationship we had and I veer between wanting to call him on what happened that night and just feeling that for me its better to chalk it up to 'one of those things.'

My friend used the phrase 'basically raped' so that's why I used it in my original post. Again, in her case there was no alcohol involved and it happened within a long term relationship. She also had the feelings about reporting it long after it happened, how she'd cope with having to make the accusation and deal with the aftermath of that and decided for her it was best to move on and just get on with life.


I really think there should be a move away from the 'stranger danger' nature of rape campaigns. I feel a campaign with the message 'You are more likely to be sexually assaulted by your dad, boyfriend, husband, brother, cousin, friend or colleague' would be closer to the stories me and my friends have. Not one of us was dragged down a dark alley, the incidents we shared all took place in our homes or those of our partners. I also think we need to educate people about sexual assault as a crime, its almost like some of us thought we were 'lucky' to have just been sexually assaulted (something we recognized after the fact as sexual assault that is) when we could have been raped.

Nah. Not that I can remember. Thankfully.

Well a creepy old guy attempted to put his hands in my knickers in a crowded nightclub in my town a few years ago. So I punched him in the face and got a bouncer to kick him out. I don't count that as anything though. Although if a fella (I don't know) so much as tries to feel me up in a bar/club I tend react violently because I just find it repulsive. I've always been like that. Can't deal with being touched by strangers.

Dudess

Even a blatant sexual assault can leave the assaulted party not entirely sure whether it was assault or not, due to factors such as: self blame, shame for not stopping it, denial, wondering whether there were aspects they enjoyed if they initially liked the person...

Kimia

Wibbs wrote: »

Yes. After two months of accusations and numerous witnesses who had a completely different story. If anything she was the predator in this case. Like I say nutter. TBH I find it odd that some concentrate on the one off case I put forward where the woman was talking without recourse to her mouth yet ignore the rest where I pointed out the majority were not. And I called myself paranoid and disbelieving in the same post?

Well yes, it's terrible actually and it highlights again that sexual assault is so common. Nearly everyone on this thread has already experienced it, and I believe that's why people concentrated on the one-off case you talked about because that's the part that is uncommon.

This thread made me sad at first, then surprised (at the amount of experiences) and now I just feel angry and outraged. WTF like. Why does this happen. It's just despicable and I am raging at the world in general at the moment thinking about how these situations happen and are swept under the rug because of a number of different reasons.

How do we change people's minds so that if someone is sexually assaulted, the first feelings they have about it is also anger and outrage, and not shame and guilt? :mad:

Lola18

I'm not going to go too into my incident but I think a lot of people keep quiet due to trying to hold onto some self respect, I tried talk about my experience with my mum but she didn't know how to react, she wouldn't believe me! It makes it so hard. I was threatened to have my house burnt down if I said a word to anyone. It was 5 years ago and still evrytime rihannaS song Umberella comes on it brings everything back

Novella

I have had an experience which at the time left me kind of thinking, "What just happened there?" but I guess I figured it was as much my fault as it was his so I didn't consider it an assault.

I went out one night and my friend picked up a guy and brought him home to the apartment we shared. I ended up with his friend. I was drunk and this probably sounds absolutely insane but it was easier for me to sleep with him than to say no. I was really in a place in my life where my self confidence was low and I guess I used men and their attention to make me feel better about myself. Whole different story.

So I did consent to sex. However, he started to hurt me but when I tried to get him off me, I couldn't. I struggled under him. I asked him to stop. I said no over and over, but he kept going.

When he finally did stop, I locked myself in the bathroom until he left. I was bleeding and even the fact that I was physically injured and locked up, hiding from a guy in my own home didn't make me think what had happened was wrong.

midlandsmissus

newmug wrote: »

This thing of "Oh I was drunk and he felt me up" or "I rode him without any protest whatsoever cos I didnt know the consequences if I didnt" is NOT sexual assault, and its pure bull to paint it as such. If you were drunk, chances are the man was too and yiz were both doing what people do when they're drunk, and if you dont tell someone you dont want something to happen, well they cant bloodywell read your mind!

To me, rape is being followed down an alley (or TRAPPED in some other way), being beaten up, and being FORCED to have sex with a gun or a knife.




Some aul fella having a **** on the bus behind you, while unpleasant, is far from rape. He is, quite literally, a wanker. Did you scream or make a fuss? Did you get up and move somewhere else?

This is a rape myth.
The absolute majority of rapes are carried out by boyfriends/acquaintances. You can be going out with some-one, then they want to have sex and you say no and they force you. This is rape.

the 'down an alleyway' stereotype makes girls afraid to report their rapes, as they think 'was it rape, I knew the guy, it wasn't a stranger in a dark alleyway'.

Educate yourself, and I mean that in a nice way. It's important that those myths are completely abolished.

I'd recommend watching this video, all survivors of rape, all by people they knew.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdlVSuMAnr0