Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.

Should Irish be an optional subject not a cumpulsory one

1…1415171920…36

Comments

  • #482
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    No it should always be compulsory. I'd imagine very few would actually do Irish if it wasnt compulsory.The language is already on its last legs, making the subject non compulsory will completely kill it. Irish is a big part of our heritage and culture, it'd be a sad day in Ireland the day nobody in the whole country is able to speak our native language.


  • #483
    iBeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭iBeast


    The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.


  • #484
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    No it should always be compulsory. I'd imagine very few would actually do Irish if it wasnt compulsory.The language is already on its last legs, making the subject non compulsory will completely kill it. Irish is a big part of our heritage and culture, it'd be a sad day in Ireland the day nobody in the whole country is able to speak our native language.
    Lots of things are a big part of our heritage, such as total and blind obedience to the Roman Catholic Church, should that also be compilsory? If Irish is to survive at all (and i see no reason that it should) it cannot be force, only by choice.


  • #485
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    iBeast wrote: »
    The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.
    Welcome back GuGobioch


  • #486
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    I'd imagine very few would actually do Irish if it wasnt compulsory.

    Well that speaks volumes.


  • Advertisement
  • #487
    iBeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭iBeast


    lividduck wrote: »
    iBeast wrote: »
    The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.
    Welcome back GuGobioch
    What?


  • #488
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,329 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    deise go deo wrote: »
    You could forgive me if I got the impression that very few people are actually serious about making Irish optional.
    More likely that the majority of people don't actually care that much. Most who would have a public opinion are out of school so it doesn't affect them directly and if they have kids they figure "oh yea it's cultural or something, is it not? It's part of growing up. Sure what can I do about it. I can say "close the door" as Gaelige, better say I speak it in the census. It's cultural you know". And their kids leave school, like the majority of kids before them going "thank fcuk I'm not trudging through that guff anymore". Not just about Irish either. Ditto for algebra and the like, because for the vast majority both will be about as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the rest of their daily lives.

    Mostly the vast majority would IMHO be "meh" about the whole thing, they just get on with their lives and the vast majority do so as Bearla. It's such a non issue, that it's well.. a non issue. So it's hardly surprising there's no great vigorous push and that goes either way. A couple of hundred or even 10,000 is like adding a pint of water to the lake that is 4 million that care so much they can go through their entire lives and never hear a natural word of it spoken around them, nor ever need to understand it.

    In any event, hobbyists riding in on their own particularly well fed hobby horses are always more ardent, nay oft times obsessive and usually vocal. It's the nature of the beast. Put it another way deise go deo how many threads have you started or posts you've commented upon are nothing to do with the Irish language? Remarkably few. I've seen similar among the born again religious faithful folks and that's cool. Whatever floats your boat. However it does tend to make one overly narrow in focus and subjective and defensive about anything outside that focus. For too long that's been the precise problem with tackling the support, even growth of the language. It can be exclusive and off putting when not meaning to be.
    iBeast wrote:
    The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.
    Are you properly fluent in Irish? If you are, that's cool, but prove it for all by providing a passage as Gaelige, with a translation as Bearla as is the charter/tradition/good manners around here. IF you are and can, then you also must realise that you're in a pretty small minority that has a subjective emotional attachment and viewpoint that others may not have and making with the not so sly digs won't profit your case. If not then why not? Maybe put your cupla focal where your mouth is, rather than accuse the rest of us of west britism. Just a thought?

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #489
    Namlub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,298 ✭✭✭Namlub


    Sir Gallagher wrote: »
    I have to laugh at the whole "Irish was forced on me as a child so i resent it now boo hoo hoo" bunch. You'd swear it was like child abuse
    Well no, the only person making that fairly crude comparison is you in some futile attempt to dismiss what is a legitimate contributing factor to lack of interest in the language for a lot of people. But hey, hyperbole is always fun.


  • #490
    Sir Gallagher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,836 ✭✭✭Sir Gallagher


    Namlub wrote: »
    Well no, the only person making that fairly crude comparison is you in some futile attempt to dismiss what is a legitimate contributing factor to lack of interest in the language for a lot of people. But hey, hyperbole is always fun.

    So people saying Irish was "forced on them" and "rammed down their throats" isn't hyperbole? Us Irish love our oppresion layed on thick.


  • #491
    iBeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭iBeast


    Wibbs wrote: »
    deise go deo wrote: »
    You could forgive me if I got the impression that very few people are actually serious about making Irish optional.
    More likely that the majority of people don't actually care that much. Most who would have a public opinion are out of school so it doesn't affect them directly and if they have kids they figure "oh yea it's cultural or something, is it not? It's part of growing up. Sure what can I do about it. I can say "close the door" as Gaelige, better say I speak it in the census. It's cultural you know". And their kids leave school, like the majority of kids before them going "thank fcuk I'm not trudging through that guff anymore". Not just about Irish either. Ditto for algebra and the like, because for the vast majority both will be about as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the rest of their daily lives.

    Mostly the vast majority would IMHO be "meh" about the whole thing, they just get on with their lives and the vast majority do so as Bearla. It's such a non issue, that it's well.. a non issue. So it's hardly surprising there's no great vigorous push and that goes either way. A couple of hundred or even 10,000 is like adding a pint of water to the lake that is 4 million that care so much they can go through their entire lives and never hear a natural word of it spoken around them, nor ever need to understand it.

    In any event, hobbyists riding in on their own particularly well fed hobby horses are always more ardent, nay oft times obsessive and usually vocal. It's the nature of the beast. Put it another way deise go deo how many threads have you started or posts you've commented upon are nothing to do with the Irish language? Remarkably few. I've seen similar among the born again religious faithful folks and that's cool. Whatever floats your boat. However it does tend to make one overly narrow in focus and subjective and defensive about anything outside that focus. For too long that's been the precise problem with tackling the support, even growth of the language. It can be exclusive and off putting when not meaning to be.
    iBeast wrote:
    The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.
    Are you properly fluent in Irish? If you are, that's cool, but prove it for all by providing a passage as Gaelige, with a translation as Bearla as is the charter/tradition/good manners around here. IF you are and can, then you also must realise that you're in a pretty small minority that has a subjective emotional attachment and viewpoint that others may not have and making with the not so sly digs won't profit your case. If not then why not? Maybe put your cupla focal where your mouth is, rather than accuse the rest of us of west britism. Just a thought?
    Im not fluent in Irish but im learning irish . I only accused some aspects of the media of being west brit


  • Advertisement
  • #492
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    iBeast wrote: »
    Im not fluent in Irish but im learning irish . I only accused some aspects of the media of being west brit
    You could at least give us the Irish for "West Brit". That shouldn't be too hard.


  • #493
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Crosáidí wrote: »
    This accident of birth thing is ridiculous, your irish because the people/community and culture around you is distinct to this island and that environment influenced you as you grew up, being Irish is a frame of mind, seeing things differently than another culture/country would.

    No it didn't. How do you know what influenced me?
    bb1234567 wrote: »
    No it should always be compulsory. I'd imagine very few would actually do Irish if it wasnt compulsory.The language is already on its last legs, making the subject non compulsory will completely kill it. Irish is a big part of our heritage and culture, it'd be a sad day in Ireland the day nobody in the whole country is able to speak our native language.

    If very few poeple would do it, what does that tell you? Also, forcing those who would not actually do it, to do it will not resurrecut the languange. you can take the horse to water...
    iBeast wrote: »
    The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.
    iBeast wrote: »
    Im not fluent in Irish but im learning irish . I only accused some aspects of the media of being west brit

    Define the phrase "west brit" for a start before you even being to attribute it to other sources.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #494
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    Irish should be recognised as one of those subjects which is impractical and the standards people dont really care about so that it can be more of a doss / fun with no homework, artistic and music elements (tv and dance?) ..da kids have enough on their plates with maths and sciences having to be so rigid and unforgiving.


  • #495
    grindle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Sheesh, I hope you manage to do somthing with that chip on your shoulder before your arm falls off.

    Do you even know what having a chip on your shoulder really means? My post was a reflection of my experiences, not a post meant to coax people into a fight, or goading anyone at all. Everyone dislikes the things they don't like, surely?
    I'm not allowed?
    If anyone has a chip on their shoulder, it's the blinkered defenders of education for culture's sake rather than for education's sake. A person is more important than a language or a culture every single time, yet the pro-Irish-by-force [generalisation forthcoming] seem convinced of the opposite.
    I'm not calling for the death of a language, I'm calling for the choice of it. Pro-compulsary posters, on the other hand, are calling for a depressing waste of time and money. Typical of the backwards Irish outlook mentioned in my last post.
    Nice attempt at an ad hominem though... If you keep practising you'll seem less obvious eventually.


  • #496
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    It's good to give kids something that is a little bit difficult and maybe a little bit pointless...gets them used to a lot of the way the world works.

    People seem to be desperate to turn the school system into a hand holding session that breeds remedial dumb-asses that are afraid of a bit of hard work.


  • #497
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    It's good to give kids something that is a little bit difficult and maybe a little bit pointless...gets them used to a lot of the way the world works.

    People seem to be desperate to turn the school system into a hand holding session that breeds remedial dumb-asses that are afraid of a bit of hard work.
    Your name is apt. That's not a reason to keep irish cumpulsory. We might as well have our kids dig holes in the yard as something difficult and pointless. By the way I don't know how you think the world works but from my perspective if someone asks me to do something difficult there'd better be a bloody good reason for it.


  • #498
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Your name is apt.

    Well done, no one has ever said that before, and i certainly haven't joked about how my name is a warning about my posts content.

    Also, this is AH, so it's best to not take posts entirely seriously.

    If you start a petition to replace Irish with hole digging i will sign it though.

    Finally kids are not being "asked" to do something, they are being "told" to do something, yet kids being kids are they are ****ing lazy, and parents being parents they are willing to protect their kids right to be lazy, and their freedom to grow up to be both stupid and lazy.

    These threads are always the same, people who were too stupid for school blaming the "difficult" and "pointless" subjects that were too complex for their feeble brains.

    It's secondary school ****. It's easy.


  • #499
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Finally kids are not being "asked" to do something, they are being "told" to do something, yet kids being kids are they are ****ing lazy, and parents being parents they are willing to protect their kids right to be lazy, and their freedom to grow up to be both stupid and lazy.

    These threads are always the same, people who were too stupid for school blaming the "difficult" and "pointless" subjects that were too complex for their feeble brains.

    It's secondary school ****. It's easy.
    Nice to see my little joke was original so. I really thought it wouldn't be.

    You really can't be serious? We aren't talking about kids here, we're talking about teenagers in secondary school who although most of them may still be legally kids they're old enough to know what they have interest in and what they consider a waste of time. What business does the state have to mandate their education based on some dumb cultural illusion?

    And yes as a matter of fact they are being "asked" to do irish not "told". Many students rightly refuse to do the subject and get excemptions on some pretty shaky ground because they see the language has no merit and their valuable time is better spent studying more important subjects. You know, the ones that will futher their careers?

    There's no way you can "tell" any student to do anything. I for instance refused to do PE in 6th year. It earned me the ire of my principal but I got an extra hour and ten minutes studying during the day while the rest were running around a field.

    It's not about the subject being difficult, it's about it being pointless.


  • #500
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Well done, no one has ever said that before, and i certainly haven't joked about how my name is a warning about my posts content.

    Also, this is AH, so it's best to not take posts entirely seriously.

    If you start a petition to replace Irish with hole digging i will sign it though.

    Finally kids are not being "asked" to do something, they are being "told" to do something, yet kids being kids are they are ****ing lazy, and parents being parents they are willing to protect their kids right to be lazy, and their freedom to grow up to be both stupid and lazy.

    These threads are always the same, people who were too stupid for school blaming the "difficult" and "pointless" subjects that were too complex for their feeble brains.

    It's secondary school ****. It's easy.

    Again, how is saying that somehting is pointless and hard for the sake of being pointless and hard helping? How does this promote the language?

    And what is the point of teaching kids how to debate and make decisions if we think the correct porcedue is to throw all that out the window and tell then what to do? Are you seriously suggesting that pointlessness should be a requirement of an education system? To me, this is the mark of beign just too damn lazy to accept or adjust to change.

    Also, this thread, if you bother to read it, is full of intelligent people making cases for freedom of choice out of logical practical reasons, chief amongst them the idea that it will allow a student to tailor their Leaving Cert to their personal needs, or to enhance their knowledge or enjoyment of something. To dismiss them as purely blaming "pointless" and "difficult" subjects for the "failures" you see to perceive (and, specifically, what failures, may I ask, are you talking about?) is a massive amount of assumption and ignorance on your part.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #501
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    How does this promote the language?
    Surely the language does not need promotion? If people want to learn it, they will. Times move on. People don't need to learn the Irish language or be forced to learn a language which is pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things.

    Like I said, it seems to be a more cultural and political thing than it being about the language itself.


  • Advertisement
  • #502
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Surely the language does not need promotion? If people want to learn it, they will. Times move on. People don't need to learn the Irish language or be forced to learn a language which is pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things.

    Like I said, it seems to be a more cultural and political thing than it being about the language itself.

    Exactly my point. But I am assuming those that wish for Irish to remain compulsory do so for the sake of the langauge. Perhaps erroneously on my part.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #503
    GaryIrv93
    Closed Accounts Posts: 512 ✭✭✭GaryIrv93


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Well done, no one has ever said that before, and i certainly haven't joked about how my name is a warning about my posts content.

    Also, this is AH, so it's best to not take posts entirely seriously.

    If you start a petition to replace Irish with hole digging i will sign it though.

    Finally kids are not being "asked" to do something, they are being "told" to do something, yet kids being kids are they are ****ing lazy, and parents being parents they are willing to protect their kids right to be lazy, and their freedom to grow up to be both stupid and lazy.

    These threads are always the same, people who were too stupid for school blaming the "difficult" and "pointless" subjects that were too complex for their feeble brains.

    It's secondary school ****. It's easy.

    Would it not be better to work hard for something difficult but actually worth doing? Irish is both difficult and not useful (for most people), so why should kids be forced to learn it? :confused: A waste of money and a waste of student's time, especially when they could be learning something that's actually useful for their futures. And my point is that not only that Irish is pointless and not useful, it's also more along the lines of ''why not give kids a bit more freedom in their own education?'' instead of dictating everything they learn.


  • #504
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    It's good to give kids something that is a little bit difficult and maybe a little bit pointless...gets them used to a lot of the way the world works.

    People seem to be desperate to turn the school system into a hand holding session that breeds remedial dumb-asses that are afraid of a bit of hard work.

    we need to work smarter not harder


  • #505
    skylight1987
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 350 ✭✭skylight1987


    Having spent more than seven hundred euro on a private weekly grinds teacher for my kid, i can whole heartedly say IRISH SHOULD BE OPIONAL


  • #506
    WillieFlynn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 300 ✭✭WillieFlynn


    iBeast wrote: »
    The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.
    No, we are talking about the frustration of people for one reason or another don't want to do Irish as a Leaving Cert subject, being forced to.


  • #507
    WillieFlynn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 300 ✭✭WillieFlynn


    I feel that those calling for Irish to remain compulsory, would be better directing their effort to making the course attractive to students.

    Coercion doesn't work very well in Ireland, just look at how may people will drink more on good Friday than on a normal Friday. It's nearly a national sport to break rules / laws you don't agree with.

    I also find it weird that Irish is the only compulsory subject......


  • #508
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,713 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    It's good to give kids something ... pointless...gets them used to a lot of the way the world works.
    Great, so when students have to drop physics, sciences and accountancy because the country is broke (see link) and we must protect the gaeilgoirs fetish and the religious orders, LC graduates looking for a job can tell their prospective employer when interviewing for a adminstrative/bookeeping jobs "ehh ... well, I know I didn't do accountancy or anything like that, useful productive stuff but logical fallacy says it's great to learn pointless stuff, I'm an expert in religion and I sat through 1000s of hours "learning" the Irish language ... I should be the best worker you've ever had."

    I can just imagine the business owner tripping over themselves to offer that person a job. :pac:
    People seem to be desperate to turn the school system into a hand holding session that breeds remedial dumb-asses that are afraid of a bit of hard work.
    No, I am desperate to turn the educaction system into one that serves the best interests of our children, preferably by engaging them with their education by giving them an extensive array of elective choices from bookeeping, sciences, IT, carpentry and trades, foreign languages etc. I don't know of anyone who wants a school system that "breeds remedial dumb-asses" but the current system does this very well. 25% of boys leave the system functionally illterate and most students waste nearly 1/3 of their time learning useless rubbish like religion and Irish that will not help them one bit in the real world, at least not on this world anyway.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • #509
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    sher55 wrote: »
    Irish should be done away with.
    Totally useless unless the could actually teach a student the language at a young age.
    And at that the Irish language would have to be revived from the dead which is not going to happen.
    Having it as a subject is pointless you are only confusing people by learning them words and simple phrases without going the whole hog .
    'learning them phrases.....'.....?


  • #510
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    SeanW wrote: »
    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    It's good to give kids something ... pointless...gets them used to a lot of the way the world works.
    Great, so when students have to drop physics, sciences and accountancy because the country is broke (see link) and we must protect the gaeilgoirs fetish and the religious orders, LC graduates looking for a job can tell their prospective employer when interviewing for a adminstrative/bookeeping jobs "ehh ... well, I know I didn't do accountancy or anything like that, useful productive stuff but logical fallacy says it's great to learn pointless stuff, I'm an expert in religion and I sat through 1000s of hours "learning" the Irish language ... I should be the best worker you've ever had."

    I can just imagine the business owner tripping over themselves to offer that person a job. :pac:
    People seem to be desperate to turn the school system into a hand holding session that breeds remedial dumb-asses that are afraid of a bit of hard work.
    No, I am desperate to turn the educaction system into one that serves the best interests of our children, preferably by engaging them with their education by giving them an extensive array of elective choices from bookeeping, sciences, IT, carpentry and trades, foreign languages etc. I don't know of anyone who wants a school system that "breeds remedial dumb-asses" but the current system does this very well. 25% of boys leave the system functionally illterate and most students waste nearly 1/3 of their time learning useless rubbish like religion and Irish that will not help them one bit in the real world, at least not on this world anyway.
    Let's be realistic. There's not a single subject on lc that prepares a person for the 'real world'. What an education should do is allow a child to develop the ability to think. Doesn't matter a damn if the subject us Irish, maths or nepalese nose whistling. Why not Irish? LC maths won't make an engineer. It only develops a capacity in a particular way if thinking, if of course it is conceptualized properly. Likewise biology. Won't make doctor. Or for that matter, a biologist. Picking on a particular subject is silly. I have seven years of French. Two of those at third level, and Delboy would parlez rings around me. There's not a single LC subject that has been of any use in life, work or further education (halfway through my 3rd post-grad at the moment, just for context). That doesn't mean they weren't of value developmentally, in terms of how I learned to learn. Maths wise, for example... In daily life, my primary school arithmetic serves me just fine, thank you very much. Does that mean that the five years of calculus and theorems were wasted? I'll never use them, but I can certainly think in that direction.


  • Advertisement
  • #511
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    skylight1987 wrote: »
    Having spent more than seven hundred euro on a private weekly grinds teacher for my kid, i can whole heartedly say IRISH SHOULD BE OPIONAL
    As should splllng.... IN CPTALLLS!


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement