Should Irish be an optional subject not a cumpulsory one

Lady Chuckles

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No one wants it to die. We just don't want it mandatory in school that's all. Though if a language isn't strong enough to survive on it's own merit then it should die rather then be kept alive by huge amounts of public funds.

Of course you don't want it to die, but if it's optional and no one has the interest in learning it, I made the conclusion that, at some point, it could very well disappear

It's only a speculation of course

Lady Chuckles

... On the other hand, perhaps if it was optional people would be happy choosing to learn Irish

swimming in a sea

Lady Chuckles wrote: »

Of course you don't want it to die, but if it's optional and no one has the interest in learning it, I made the conclusion that, at some point, it could very well disappear

It's only a speculation of course

God, I'd love to see it die, 2 hours a day for 8 years in primary school, what a waste. At least I gave it up in secondary school so they did not ruin that for me.

flanders1979

I watched a programme about the Welsh last night with Rob Brydon and there were parts of it about the language. It made me slightly embarrassed about my own ability to speak Irish. He was asked if he ever met a Frenchman who couldn't speak French.

Krusader

Abolish it, it's not Anglo-American enough for us

Nothingbetter2d

based on keep irish complusory campaign'ers motto why dont we make ancient egyption compulsory so we can burn more tax money up forcing people to learn a useless language that the majority of people dont actually need or want.

Lady Chuckles

swimming in a sea wrote: »

God, I'd love to see it die, 2 hours a day for 8 years in primary school, what a waste. At least I gave it up in secondary school so they did not ruin that for me.

Wouldn't you be sad at all if it vanished?
I know I would.

deise go deo

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

based on keep irish complusory campaign'ers motto why dont we make ancient egyption compulsory so we can burn more tax money up forcing people to learn a useless language that the majority of people dont actually need or want.

You can't show a majority in favour of ancient egyption, I can show a majority in favour of Irish.

grindle

deise go deo wrote: »

You can't show a majority in favour of ancient egyption, I can show a majority in favour of Irish.

The majority of people are in favour of a lot of stupid things, what's your point?
Any fringe language has just as much "right" to exist as another, but you don't obsess about others due to your patriotic default.
Some of us recognise a birthplace for what it is, an accident of birth.
Why the obsession with forcing nationalist pride on people who want to be considered human-in-general as opposed to a certain sub-species, race or type?

Lord TSC

deise go deo wrote: »

You can't show a majority in favour of ancient egyption, I can show a majority in favour of Irish.

I'm sure if I ran surveys, I'd find alot of people in favour of the abolition of taxes, or that all shops should give things away for free, or a variety of other things which, while they sound great, would ruin the Irish economy.

I also point out, and we've had this out before, there is a difference between a majority of people saying they are in favour of Irish, and a majority of people actually bothering to use it after they've spent 14 years learning it. We can pull up survery after survey, but the reality is the majority of Irish people do not (and I'd argue could not) hold conversations in Irish on a regular basis.

Truman Burbank

lividduck wrote: »

Its a dead language which no place on the curriculum as a compulsory subject.
kids would be far better learing a modern european language.
I activley encourage my own kids to spend as little time as possible on it and devote their efforts to Spanish and French.

+1

Irish is compulsory to be taught to students, but it's not compulsory to sit the exam. A significant number do not turn up to sit it in The Leaving Cert.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS *

DCU is English or Irish
DIT is English or Irish
TCD is English and any other language (including Irish)
UCD (i.e. NUI colleges) English & Irish. Half the courses in UCD now don't require a foreign language, i.e. 3rd language. Any student born abroad is exempt from requiring Irish as an NUI entry requirement (matriculation), and are allowed to present Irish as their 'foreign language'.

* Some individual college courses specifically require a foreign language. Very few require Irish.

Irish should be optional in secondary school and the way that it's taught needs to be completely overhauled. In fact, the whole education system should be changed. The philosophy that we must speak it has done nothing but damage the language's reputation among us. Similarly, Irish should be disassociated completely from any kind of politics; Sinn Féin really aren't helping matters here and because young people are - understandably - so resentful of the aul' fellas who populate the political parties, this translates into resentment towards Irish.

I completely hated the language and couldn't string a basic sentence together up until 5th year of secondary school when I finally got an interesting teacher. A few months later (after not doing too well in ordinary level for the JC) I moved up to higher level and was able to speak it. It is true that Irish is not as useful as foreign languages, but it is very easy to learn and I find a lot of fun in trying to maintain a conversation as Gaeilge.

Keep in mind that I am a leftist who thinks nationalism and patriotism are idiotic. If I can have that kind of change of mind, it can happen to anyone.

Krusader

grindle wrote: »

The majority of people are in favour of a lot of stupid things, what's your point?
Any fringe language has just as much "right" to exist as another, but you don't obsess about others due to your patriotic default.
Some of us recognise a birthplace for what it is, an accident of birth.
Why the obsession with forcing nationalist pride on people who want to be considered human-in-general as opposed to a certain sub-species, race or type?

This accident of birth thing is ridiculous, your irish because the people/community and culture around you is distinct to this island and that environment influenced you as you grew up, being Irish is a frame of mind, seeing things differently than another culture/country would.

LordSutch

Crosáidí wrote: »

This accident of birth thing is ridiculous, your irish because the people/community and culture around you is distinct to this island and that environment influenced you as you grew up, being Irish is a frame of mind, seeing things differently than another culture/country would.

You mention Irish culture, but there are two distict cultures on this island, along with variations of both . . . . .

deise go deo

LordSutch wrote: »

You mention Irish culture, but there are two distict cultures on this island, along with variations of both . . . . .

There are indeed two traditions on the island, though it could be argued that the Irish Language belongs to both.

LordSutch

deise go deo wrote: »

There are indeed two traditions on the island, though it could be argued that the Irish Language belongs to both.

Would a Northern Unionist agree with you?

Krusader

LordSutch wrote: »

You mention Irish culture, but there are two distict cultures on this island, along with variations of both . . . . .

Yeah exactly, just because you were born on this island doesn't mean you're Irish, i'm sure culturely yourself you would have more affinity with Ulster-Scots/British culture than Irish/Gaelic culture,

Krusader

LordSutch wrote: »

Would a Northern Unionist agree with you?

They didn't seem to mind speaking it when trying to get catholics to convert in the 16th/17th century

LordSutch

I know nothing about the Irish language in the 16th/17th century, I'm talking about today!

deise go deo

LordSutch wrote: »

Would a Northern Unionist agree with you?

Some of them would, there have been quite a few former UVF members taking Irish classes as part of outreach programs in the north.

Ervine relative speaks up For Irish

Things like the Liofa 2015 campaign are helping to make the language more acceptable.

TeddyTedson

deise go deo wrote: »

Unfortunatly not, the state has been consistantly blocking and holding up the opening of new Gaelscoils for years, going so far as to stop recognising new ones compleatly in 2008. They have agreed to allow a few more since, but it is still a painfully slow, and even more dificult process these days.

Anything like bingo through Irish etc, is taken on by the school/students themselves, its not the state that does it. The state is still quite happy to do the bare minimum.


Nothing stoping you from learning, there are groups that meet up and chat informally and help each other learn all over the country, why not give one of them a go?

Ah I'm too old now. I have other things to do.

SeanW

flanders1979 wrote: »

I watched a programme about the Welsh last night with Rob Brydon and there were parts of it about the language. It made me slightly embarrassed about my own ability to speak Irish. He was asked if he ever met a Frenchman who couldn't speak French.

How many Americans speak American? How many Swiss people speak Swiss? Have you ever met a Belgian who speaks Belgian?

How about Latin speakers it Italy or Ancient Egyptian speakers in Egpyt?

The reason you will never meet a Frenchman who doesn't speak French is because French is the language of France, both on paper and in practice. Same with other modern languages like English in the U.S, French & German in Switzerland, French and Dutch in Belgium, Italian in Italy, Arabic in Egypt.

In Ireland, Irish is simply not the day-to-day language of the people. We are an English speaking country but with a loud & aggressive Gaeilgoir brigade, trying to pretend otherwise.

LordSutch

Crosáidí wrote: »

Yeah exactly, just because you were born on this island doesn't mean you're Irish, i'm sure culturely yourself you would have more affinity with Ulster-Scots/British culture than Irish/Gaelic culture,

Anglo Irish culture would be nearer the mark for me. The majority of Irish people would describe themselves as 'Irish' full stop. This majority do not speak Irish though, and they complain about the mandatory nature of the teaching of . . . .

grindle

Crosáidí wrote: »

This accident of birth thing is ridiculous, your irish because the people/community and culture around you is distinct to this island and that environment influenced you as you grew up, being Irish is a frame of mind, seeing things differently than another culture/country would.

Riiiight.
So, what makes me Irish is that I grew up surrounded by scum in Shannon with fück all to do except twiddle my dick, and was influenced by my environment into being generally fearful of a sizeable proportion of xenophobic, ashamed-when-sober, belligerent-when-drunk asshøles who think this is the greatest nation on Earth because we love d'craic and they were born here.
I'm proud of some Irish people's achievements, for them, but to trace that pride over a country so backwardly gimped by it's own repressive atmosphere is ridiculous.

Most people are not Samuel Beckett or James Joyce, most people are whinging curmudgeons who either revel in the sight of other people failing, or delight in the basest failures of humanity reaching the top of the celeb shït-pile because if that knob could do it, maybe they could too.
Ireland or Irishness, as a whole, are strange things to be proud of, without question.

Judgement Day

grindle wrote: »

Riiiight.
So, what makes me Irish is that I grew up surrounded by scum in Shannon with fück all to do except twiddle my dick, and was influenced by my environment into being generally fearful of a sizeable proportion of xenophobic, ashamed-when-sober, belligerent-when-drunk asshøles who think this is the greatest nation on Earth because we love d'craic and they were born here.
I'm proud of some Irish people's achievements, for them, but to trace that pride over a country so backwardly gimped by it's own repressive atmosphere is ridiculous.

Most people are not Samuel Beckett or James Joyce, most people are whinging curmudgeons who either revel in the sight of other people failing, or delight in the basest failures of humanity reaching the top of the celeb shït-pile because if that knob could do it, maybe they could too.
Ireland or Irishness, as a whole, are strange things to be proud of, without question.

Who rattled your cage?

deise go deo

grindle wrote: »

Riiiight.
So, what makes me Irish is that I grew up surrounded by scum in Shannon with fück all to do except twiddle my dick, and was influenced by my environment into being generally fearful of a sizeable proportion of xenophobic, ashamed-when-sober, belligerent-when-drunk asshøles who think this is the greatest nation on Earth because we love d'craic and they were born here.
I'm proud of some Irish people's achievements, for them, but to trace that pride over a country so backwardly gimped by it's own repressive atmosphere is ridiculous.

Most people are not Samuel Beckett or James Joyce, most people are whinging curmudgeons who either revel in the sight of other people failing, or delight in the basest failures of humanity reaching the top of the celeb shït-pile because if that knob could do it, maybe they could too.
Ireland or Irishness, as a whole, are strange things to be proud of, without question.

Sheesh, I hope you manage to do somthing with that chip on your shoulder before your arm falls off.

Sir Gallagher

I have to laugh at the whole "Irish was forced on me as a child so i resent it now boo hoo hoo" bunch. You'd swear it was like child abuse.

LordSutch

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

I have to laugh at the whole "Irish was forced on me as a child so i resent it now boo hoo hoo" bunch. You'd swear it was like child abuse.

Are you for real ?

Those of us who complain about the forced nature of Irish lessons are serious about the issue, we spent 1000s of hours for thirteen of forteen years of our school years being "taught" something that we didn't learn, and we never wanted to learn in the 1st place. What a waste of time & effort, for a negative gain! Is there any other country in the world where a minority language has been forced upon a non interested majority for so many decades with little or no results? Keep Irish in the curriculum of course, but make it a non mandatory subject/language.

deise go deo

LordSutch wrote: »

Are you for real ?

Those of us who complain about the forced nature of Irish lessons are serious about the issue,

Either thats not true or there are just very few of you, because there seems very little by way of a campaign to get Irish made optional.

I mean the facebook group, 'Make Irish optional' has 108 members, the one for keeping Irish compulsory has 10,000 members, there is a petition for making Irish optional that has only managed to get 40ish names, the one to keep Irish compulsory has nearly 19,000.

You could forgive me if I got the impression that very few people are actually serious about making Irish optional.

Sir Gallagher

LordSutch wrote: »

Are you for real ?

Those of us who complain about the forced nature of Irish lessons are serious about the issue, we spent 1000s of hours for thirteen of forteen years of our school years being "taught" something that we didn't learn, and we never wanted to learn in the 1st place. What a waste of time & effort, for a negative gain! Is there any other country in the world where a minority language has been forced upon a non interested majority for so many decades with little or no results? Keep Irish in the curriculum of course, but make it a non mandatory subject/language.

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