Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Ghandee · 16-12-2011 10:35am

Shenshen wrote: »

Ask me that again when the masses are trampling each other to death in the January sale.

Plenty of people will deliberately deny themselves a small luxury (maybe even a necessity) until the January sales though.

Frank Black · 16-12-2011 10:40am

smash wrote: »

So it's nothing to do with any "services" you mentioned then!

Of course it's not to do with services - it might get dressed up this way to make it more palatable for people.

The real reason for the tax is to attempt to reduce the €16 billion gap between what we spend and what we take in, not to mention paying back all those debts the banks ran up.

Zebra3 · 16-12-2011 10:44am

black francis wrote: »

The real reason for the tax

The real reason for this tax is because it is being imposed on us by the IMF/EU as part of our "reward" for bailing out foreign gamblers.

Make a stand people, don't lie down and take it like a bitch. :mad:

ArielAtom · 16-12-2011 10:48am

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

That's the spirt. The german bankers say thank you.

Right, Crazy I'm electing you our campaign manager. I will support in the non payment of tax. I am not a good organizer so will go with you on this. Power to the people.

Frank Black · 16-12-2011 10:49am

Zebra3 wrote: »

The real reason for this tax is because it is being imposed on us by the IMF/EU as part of our "reward" for bailing out foreign gamblers.

Make a stand people, don't lie down and take it like a bitch. :mad:

You're great on the 'make a stand' rhetoric - not so strong on the alternative proposals.

You should run for election next time, you'll fit right it.

smash · 16-12-2011 10:52am

black francis wrote: »

Of course it's not to do with services - it might get dressed up this way to make it more palatable for people.

The real reason for the tax is to attempt to reduce the €16 billion gap between what we spend and what we take in, not to mention paying back all those debts the banks ran up.

That's pretty obvious, but the cost of living now is fkn unreal in this country.

banshee_bones · 16-12-2011 10:52am

hamlet1 wrote: »

It makes me so angry that the landlord has to pay when there is already a e200 tax on a second house that you might have.:mad:

I take it you are a landlord so by the sounds of it? Well nobody forced you to buy a second house! And if you can afford a second house you should be able to afford all the trappings that come with it.

ArielAtom · 16-12-2011 10:54am

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

That's the spirt. The german bankers say thank you.

Wow, you now have a committee, Voodoo and Zebra will assist. We have a movement, or are they just keyboard warriors??????????

daltonmd · 16-12-2011 10:55am

black francis wrote: »

You're great on the 'make a stand' rhetoric - not so strong on the alternative proposals.

You should run for election next time, you'll fit right it.

Alternative proposals?

Projected income from "household charge" = 160 million.

Increments to public sector from 2008 = 900 million and in 2012 another 300 million..........

I'm not opposed to property tax. I'm opposed to this weak government and it's failure to tackle the real issues.

gerryo777 · 16-12-2011 10:58am

bamboozle wrote: »

much as i dont want to i'll pay it cause i spent the pre-budget moaning about income tax payers being hit most. Raising of tax needs to be spread across the population and not just the middle class, middle aged, mortgaged, parents. Dare i say it, there are planty of pensioners living mortgage free, buying new cars every January etc that can afford to pay.

Plus i'll always do the opposite of what Clare Daly does.

"I'll always do the opposite of what Clare Daly does", what a way to live your life! Some genius's on here!

gerryo777 · 16-12-2011 11:01am

ArielAtom wrote: »

Wow, you now have a committee, Voodoo and Zebra will assist. We have a movement, or are they just keyboard warriors??????????

'keyboard warriors' as opposed to yourself arielatom....

smash · 16-12-2011 11:02am

banshee_bones wrote: »

I take it you are a landlord so by the sounds of it? Well nobody forced you to buy a second house! And if you can afford a second house you should be able to afford all the trappings that come with it.

Silly statement considering the changes in circumstances over the last few years. most people can not afford it any more.

ArielAtom · 16-12-2011 11:04am

gerryo777 wrote: »

'keyboard warriors' as opposed to yourself arielatom....

I have stated I'd pay the Tax to avoid hassle, unless that is if there was a group from Board that were prepared to set up and fight it. Nowhere in this thread did I say I was fighting the cause. I was stating Crazy's post followed by its thanks from two more, you might just make the committe yourself my good man.

sensibleken · 16-12-2011 11:47am

Please correct me if Im wrong. But the lower rate of 2% USC has risen from about 3,000 to 10,000 which will reduce the amount of income tax people pay.

One website seems to indicate this will raise incomes by €3.85 a week. The property tax will cost about €2 a week. So we're still up €1.85 a week.

....maybe thats what the whole €1.85? Cóir posters were about.

eviltwin · 16-12-2011 11:49am

I'm paying it. don't want to, could use that money for so many other things but I can't afford to be in front of a judge with a fine for 2500. I'll end up losing my job. So I will pay but they can wait for it.

sensibleken · 16-12-2011 12:03pm

vintac34 wrote: »

Happy to pay BUT ONLY IF the public funded pensions of the politicans and senior public servants are capped at max of european average,not payable until OAP entitlement age and one state pension only per person...
Remember thats where most of our money is going!!!!Our so called government(with a
small g) looking after themselves and their friends..
Recent payouts show its still as bad as with the last regime..same club..different tent!!!!

The geriatric rest home for friends and failed(aka the senate)was to be abolished,but all gone quiet on this..Shut it down now and keep a hospital open for heavens sake!!
..
Happy xmas from what i feel is the most corrupt country in europe.

Not even close Im glad to say.

We're 19th least corrupt in the world. The most corrupt is Albania at 95, France is 25.

Still a shít load of room for improvement. Its just wise to consider out position before deciding the grass is greener on our European Allies lawn

melekalikimaka · 16-12-2011 12:15pm

smash wrote: »

So it's nothing to do with any "services" you mentioned then!

the money doesnt go directly to the services, no taxs work like that, there is a serious water issue in ireland with huge losses an a need to improve, this money doesnt come out of nowhere, and drawing on current tax revenue isnt possible with the deficit. This new tax increase the tax revenue and 'in theory' allow for these improvements and maintainence. Of course no one can PROVE where the money will go, but discussing that is pointless. We also have huge loans over our heads that need paying of course. Regardless however, too much going out, not enough coming in, its simple maths, refusing to pay it merely means eventually you will be hit elsewhere... people need to suck it up... protesting about being asked to pay more tax when its required for the well being of the country is foolish and imo ignorant of the bigger picture

eleven1 · 16-12-2011 12:19pm

please correct me if i'm wrong , but i think now there is a €2500 penality if you dont pay the charge ! i guess no body wants to pay it but the fact that we have to support each other is the reason we should do, and try to move our economy forward is the main goal here , we are not paying it to make our politicians richer (please correct me if i'm wrong

) . i'm very optimistic and i hope soon within few years our economy will start putting back smiles on our faces .

DoesNotCompute · 16-12-2011 12:22pm

AH answer: Atari Jaguar

Real answer: doesn't apply to me. I had the wisdom/foresight to purchase a house in a ghost estate, therefore I'm exempt

smash · 16-12-2011 12:24pm

melekalikimaka wrote: »

the money doesnt go directly to the services, no taxs work like that

I know how tax works, I was making a point not asking a question.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

there is a serious water issue in ireland with huge losses an a need to improve, this money doesnt come out of nowhere, and drawing on current tax revenue isnt possible with the deficit.

As as stated by TD's previously, the leaks will not be fixed because it's too expensive, unless it's necessary.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

This new tax increase the tax revenue and 'in theory' allow for these improvements and maintainence. Of course no one can PROVE where the money will go, but discussing that is pointless.

Public service pay rises by the sounds of it.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

We also have huge loans over our heads that need paying of course. Regardless however, too much going out, not enough coming in, its simple maths, refusing to pay it merely means eventually you will be hit elsewhere...

We're already being hit from all sides. There is plenty of scope to cut spending but they wont do it because they'll upset the trade unions.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

people need to suck it up... protesting about being asked to pay more tax when its required for the well being of the country is foolish and imo ignorant of the bigger picture

That's BS. If teachers can strike about a pay freeze, then the country can protest about another tax!

Sizzler · 16-12-2011 12:25pm

The bank own my house, I have a mortgage therefore I am a tenant in effect so I'll ask them to pay.

I I owned the house no issue....but I dont.

Any correspondance from the govt or local council on this I'll send it back to them saying Im only the tenant and they need to speak to the EBS

On another note, I object big time as the local council are wasters and will only pi** this money up against the wall, I aint subsidising that.

As our "great" leader said "ITS NOT YOUR FAULT"...GREAT, so I aint paying for it then!

DoesNotCompute · 16-12-2011 12:28pm

Ghandee wrote: »

I dont get this response?

Its €8.33 a month too fcuking much!!!

Were being charged a tax to live in a poxy house that (not through ordinary Joe Soaps fault) is worth prob half of what it was when we bought it, due to the completely wreckless behaviour of corrupt politicians and greedy bankers.

This charge is for us to pay back the BILLIONS squandered by them, robbed by them, and mismanaged by them FFS!

It doesnt matter two fiddlers farts the amount, its just the fact that we have to pay it in the first place!

Oh yeah, its 100 this year (TO BEGIN WITH) what will it be next year if we let them away with slipping it under the door this year?

Civil disobedience is the way forward, lets all stand together, tell FG and the greedy bankers to go fcuk themselves!

Typical response from the 'ah sure it'll be grand brigade'!

Fcuk em, Fcuk the lot of them!

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Keyboard warrior RABBLE RABBLE

you'll be the first to sign up for this tax, I'd say

gerryo777 · 16-12-2011 12:28pm

eleven1 wrote: »

please correct me if i'm wrong , but i think now there is a €2500 penality if you dont pay the charge ! i guess no body wants to pay it but the fact that we have to support each other is the reason we should do, and try to move our economy forward is the main goal here , we are not paying it to make our politicians richer (please correct me if i'm wrong ) . i'm very optimistic and i hope soon within few years our economy will start putting back smiles on our faces .

Don't hold your breath for that!
All this austerity and new taxes are working wonders, reading the Irish Times this morning and our economy has shrunk by another 1.9% in the third quarter of this year. We're going backwards again - fast.
A change of direction is needed, we had better stand up for ourselves in Europe or this place is going to head into a really serious depression.
Whats happened so far will look like a walk in the park!!:(

drdeadlift · 16-12-2011 12:28pm

melekalikimaka wrote: »

the money doesnt go directly to the services, no taxs work like that, there is a serious water issue in ireland with huge losses an a need to improve, this money doesnt come out of nowhere, and drawing on current tax revenue isnt possible with the deficit. This new tax increase the tax revenue and 'in theory' allow for these improvements and maintainence. Of course no one can PROVE where the money will go, but discussing that is pointless. We also have huge loans over our heads that need paying of course. Regardless however, too much going out, not enough coming in, its simple maths, refusing to pay it merely means eventually you will be hit elsewhere... people need to suck it up... protesting about being asked to pay more tax when its required for the well being of the country is foolish and imo ignorant of the bigger picture

I agree with you to a point.If the ecb bailed out the Irish banks instead of the irish tax payer would we be in this mess.If honest justice was handed to the corrupt bankers/politicians/developers(jail time) i probably wouldn't feel as hard done by.

smash · 16-12-2011 12:28pm

Sizzler wrote: »

The bank own my house, I have a mortgage therefore I am a tenant in effect so I'll ask them to pay.

That's like asking the bank to pay your car tax because you have a car loan...

But good effort

Frank Black · 16-12-2011 12:33pm

Sizzler wrote: »

The bank own my house, I have a mortgage therefore I am a tenant in effect so I'll ask them to pay.

I I owned the house no issue....but I dont.

Any correspondance from the govt or local council on this I'll send it back to them saying Im only the tenant and they need to speak to the EBS

!

You can try that approach, but it won't work.

You do own the property, the bank simply have a legal interest in it as the mortgage has been secured against it.

You can check you proprery deeds if you like, you'll find that you're registered as the 'owner'.

DoesNotCompute · 16-12-2011 12:35pm

vintac34 wrote: »

Happy to pay BUT ONLY IF the public funded pensions of the politicans and senior public servants are capped at max of european average,not payable until OAP entitlement age and one state pension only per person...
Remember thats where most of our money is going!!!!

No, most of our money is going towards Social Welfare and Health.

vintac34 wrote: »

Our so called government(with a
small g) looking after themselves and their friends..
Recent payouts show its still as bad as with the last regime..same club..different tent!!!!

The geriatric rest home for friends and failed(aka the senate)was to be abolished,but all gone quiet on this..Shut it down now and keep a hospital open for heavens sake!!

There will be a referendum on this next year, have you not been following the news??

daltonmd · 16-12-2011 12:38pm

Sizzler wrote: »

The bank own my house, I have a mortgage therefore I am a tenant in effect so I'll ask them to pay.

I I owned the house no issue....but I dont.

Any correspondance from the govt or local council on this I'll send it back to them saying Im only the tenant and they need to speak to the EBS

On another note, I object big time as the local council are wasters and will only pi** this money up against the wall, I aint subsidising that.

As our "great" leader said "ITS NOT YOUR FAULT"...GREAT, so I aint paying for it then!

Grand so, just make sure after you have paid the mortgage on it that you give it back to the bank so they can "rent" it to someone else...

kelle · 16-12-2011 12:45pm

I will pay it.

It's not as unfair as the Poll tax, which i had to pay when i was a student in the UK back in the early nineties. Every person over 18 had to pay this, students and those on SW "only" paid 20% - it still amounted to £110 per year for me which I had to pay out of my weekend job!

So I won't be as resentful paying this tax.

woodoo · 16-12-2011 12:56pm

People in social housing should have to pay something towards it. They get far too much handed to them. It would get them into the habit of paying for things themselves.

I think they should have to pay the full €100 though.

bamboozle · 16-12-2011 12:57pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

"I'll always do the opposite of what Clare Daly does", what a way to live your life! Some genius's on here!

i'm sorry did i strike a nerve Clare?

should we just introduce taxes for the middle and upper classes and have everyone live in a utopian socialist society? oh wait the middle and upper class would emigrate, retire or become tax avoiders. Multi nationals would be gone in a shot and any entrepreneurs still surviving would give up.

Zebra3 · 16-12-2011 1:00pm

bamboozle wrote: »

i'm sorry did i strike a nerve Clare?

should we just introduce taxes for the middle and upper classes and have everyone live in a utopian socialist society? oh wait the middle and upper class would emigrate, retire or become tax avoiders. Multi nationals would be gone in a shot and any entrepreneurs still surviving would give up.

No-one is suggesting that, but people are sick and tired of paying for f*ck ups by private institutions.

Cut politicans' pay and pensions big time first.

gigino · 16-12-2011 1:01pm

smash wrote: »

I paid a hell of a lot of stamp duty, that should cover any costs for a long time. And lets face it, they're forecasting this will bring in €160m which they could easily make by making smokes a tenner a pack instead of just adding 25c

They could easily save 160 million too but making sure the 36,000 public servants who " earn" more than 80,000 per year do not get any more pay increases / increments.

Or by capping public service pensions at say 60,000 a year. A retired person should be able to live on 60,000 a year. If they need more, let them save for it themselves. Do not have the taxpayer paying for it.

gerryo777 · 16-12-2011 1:09pm

bamboozle wrote: »

i'm sorry did i strike a nerve Clare?

should we just introduce taxes for the middle and upper classes and have everyone live in a utopian socialist society? oh wait the middle and upper class would emigrate, retire or become tax avoiders. Multi nationals would be gone in a shot and any entrepreneurs still surviving would give up.

sbsquarepants · 16-12-2011 1:19pm

I think i'm just gonna pay it, these things always end up catching you further down the road, like when you go to sell and are told you owe 2 grand for water rates from 18 years ago!

Zebra3 · 16-12-2011 1:38pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I think i'm just gonna pay it, these things always end up catching you further down the road, like when you go to sell and are told you owe 2 grand for water rates from 18 years ago!

No, they don't

The campaign against water charges worked.

The bin charges failed as it was during the boom

Don't pay.

smash · 16-12-2011 1:38pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I think i'm just gonna pay it, these things always end up catching you further down the road, like when you go to sell and are told you owe 2 grand for water rates from 18 years ago!

But what about 5 years time when it's €1,000 a year?

Funnyonion79 · 16-12-2011 1:41pm

I'm definitely not paying. Love you Wibbs and Ghandee. Agree with everything you both said.

dxhound2005 · 16-12-2011 1:41pm

In 5 years time Eamonn Dunphy will just be getting out of jail and he will come round and sort it out for you.

jester77 · 16-12-2011 1:42pm

An amusing thread, people are getting very riled up by only €8.33 a month, whereas there are hardly any complaints about mortgage interest rates not being passed on which is worth about €30 to the average variable rate mortgage holder.

andrewire · 16-12-2011 1:45pm

woodoo wrote: »

People in social housing should have to pay something towards it. They get far too much handed to them. It would get them into the habit of paying for things themselves.

I think they should have to pay the full €100 though.

Agree.

Frank Black · 16-12-2011 1:47pm

jester77 wrote: »

An amusing thread, people are getting very riled up by only €8.33 a month, whereas there are hardly any complaints about mortgage interest rates not being passed on which is worth about €30 to the average variable rate mortgage holder.

Tis only people letting off steam - the fearless keyboard warriors will melt away when the threat of a large fine drops through their letterbox.

smash · 16-12-2011 1:47pm

jester77 wrote: »

An amusing thread, people are getting very riled up by only €8.33 a month

People have to stop thinking like this. It's not a monthly charge. It's annual!

bamboozle · 16-12-2011 1:53pm

jester77 wrote: »

An amusing thread, people are getting very riled up by only €8.33 a month, whereas there are hardly any complaints about mortgage interest rates not being passed on which is worth about €30 to the average variable rate mortgage holder.

Mortgage interest rates are being passed on to those entitled to them, ie tracker holders.

i'd be far more p1ssed off about children's allowances not being means tested, about €250m in increments being annually handed over to relatively well paid public sector workers, about political pensions etc.

melekalikimaka · 16-12-2011 1:57pm

smash wrote: »

That's BS. If teachers can strike about a pay freeze, then the country can protest about another tax!

two wrongs dont make a right, thats petty behavior, like that of a spoilt child... typical celtic tiger behavior

smash · 16-12-2011 2:04pm

melekalikimaka wrote: »

two wrongs dont make a right, thats petty behavior, like that of a spoilt child... typical celtic tiger behavior

And how is it two wrongs? And how is it "typical celtic tiger behaviour" if people want to protest about something? You're not making any sense to me.

I understand that we're in a lot of debt, but this charge is horse shít considering the level of cuts needed in the ps that aren't happening!

Anyway, on a lighter note: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2011/1216/1224309148268.html

daltonmd · 16-12-2011 2:07pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

In 5 years time Eamonn Dunphy will just be getting out of jail and he will come round and sort it out for you.

Nobody will be going to jail, not joe Higgins or Claire Daly.

There is talk of bringing in community orders and/or attachment of earnings for non payment of fines - this is what will happen.

If you do not pay the fine you will go to court, you will get community service and have your dole/salary garnished and the fine taken out over a period of time...

All the angles will be covered and the message will be clear - 100 now or "up to" 2,500 in the future - it's Irelands call............

bazza1 · 16-12-2011 2:10pm

Why not just remove the €100 tax by decreasing the tax credit by the appropriate amount on your Tax forms and it will be drawn over a whole year without coughing it up in one lump? Cheaper for the Govt to administer too.

Jesus Wept · 16-12-2011 2:12pm

Landlords can **** right off.

Jesus Wept · 16-12-2011 2:13pm

jester77 wrote: »

An amusing thread, people are getting very riled up by only €8.33 a month, whereas there are hardly any complaints about mortgage interest rates not being passed on which is worth about €30 to the average variable rate mortgage holder.

Do you actually believe it will be €100 in 5 years time?
lol.

Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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