Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

kincsem

This is exciting. A triple dead heat between "Yes", "No", "Not applicable to me" at 26 votes each.

Wattle

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i look forward to the penalties those who wont pay it will incur. muppets

So you think we think we should just bend over and take whatever comes down the pipe no matter how unjust? That's fantastic.

Lemlin

zenno wrote: »

I am more than likely more educated than yourself, I have many skills so that smart remark does not help you in any way. just because someone types "sh1t" in their comment does not make a person poorly educated. it is more anger than anything.

My comment didn't have anything to do with the use of an expletive. It was in response to your poorly worded initial post.

As for your education, if you did receive such an education, you therefore received a basically free college education, so what's the problem with paying some taxes now?

In other countries, you would of had to pay through the nose for that education. But, now that you have your free college education, have a better job and are on a better salary because of it, you're not willing to dip into your pocket for €100 and support helping younger people to receive the same?

I'd suggest you go and stand outside the Dail with Joe Higgins and the lads to vent your "anger". It'd be better wasted there than typing on a keyboard.

A new keyboard may be slightly cheaper than the new household charge but if you are being "battered to death" by taxes, it might push you beyond your means.

Carter P Fly

Indeed, If you can afford to post on an internet website you can afford this 'tax'


file this entire thread under First world problems and be done with it.

D1stant

Joe Higgins on Matt Cooper raving against it, Its all the IMF/EUs fault again

I dont really see the connection between the banks and this. Lets say a crash never happened. The country still lost 1/3 of its tax intake because of the property collapse and a narrow tax net.

If we need to borrow circa 20bn per year to stay afloat then taxes must go up and this is just the start

eth0

I'm going to leave to a country where you don't have to pay an annual tax for living in a house that you own.

There are plenty, believe me. It's just that it's common in such brilliant places as Germany and France to have such taxes, but by no means every country.

Not having this stupid tax was one of the great things about ireland

Lemlin

Wattle wrote: »

So you think we think we should just bend over and take whatever comes down the pipe no matter how unjust? That's fantastic.

What exactly is unjust about paying a €100 household charge? I find it particularly funny that Mick Wallace is refusing to pay the charge.

Good man Mick. Stand up for the poor. What about all those workers whose pensions you didn't pay Mick? Or the 20 million that you owe to Nama and we are now paying for Mick? While you collect a Dail salary Mick? Or the worker who had to take you to court to get paid Mick?

Looks like Mick is just following the norm for him. Trying to get away with not paying whatever he can avoid.

zenno

Lemlin wrote: »

I'd suggest you go and stand outside the Dail with Joe Higgins and the lads to vent your "anger". It'd be better wasted there than typing on a keyboard.

the thread is titled (Are you going to pay the household charge).

I have added my comment and vote and already said I will not be paying it, the same as many people here. this is why I will be sticking with the keyboard if you don't mind. :rolleyes:

drdeadlift

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i look forward to the penalties those who wont pay it will incur. muppets

So this new tax is ok because similar taxes are in place in other countries.piss off

D1stant

Lemlin wrote: »

What exactly is unjust about paying a €100 household charge? I find it particularly funny that Mick Wallace is refusing to pay the charge.

Good man Mick. Stand up for the poor. What about all those workers whose pensions you didn't pay Mick? Or the 20 million that you owe to Nama and we are now paying for Mick? While you collect a Dail salary Mick? Or the worker who had to take you to court to get paid Mick?

Looks like Mick is just following the norm for him. Trying to get away with not paying whatever he can avoid.

Maybe its because Mick knows that most of the houses he built are not worth €100

Tom

This is how they got the Bin Charges in in Dublin - start of low until you get a critical mass of compliance then start upping the cost once people are resigned to paying. It will happen with this tax too - €100 this year, €300
next, €500+ the year after.

Also - if this is for local services then why am I still paying refuse charges? That is a local service and I pay a lot more than €100 a year on that. Oh wait - that's been privatised so it is not counted as a County Council service. The same will happen with water and sewrage - we'll pay for those aswell as this charge.

This is not a tax on wealth.

Wile E. Coyote

kincsem wrote: »

This is exciting. A triple dead heat between "Yes", "No", "Not applicable to me" at 26 votes each.

Run a poll in 3 months asking 'Did you pay the household charge?' and it'll be an overwhelming YES. As a nation we love to moan about any sort of impossed change but in the end we'll just fall in line and pay it. It was the same with the plastic bag levy and the smoking ban.

banshee_bones

Yakult wrote: »

Roughly 2 euro a week.

If you dont pay, you will only end up paying more. Dont be silly.

As others have said this will no doubt increase every year from now in the budget.

Theres an online petition doing the rounds already...

http://www.petitiononline.ie/petition/say-no-to-the-new-household-charge/1383

melekalikimaka

drdeadlift wrote: »

So this new tax is ok because similar taxes are in place in other countries.piss off

well why is it not ok? taxes need to be increased to support out great social welfare system and inflated p.s. I would rather see this until water charges come in that watch the country slip further into the hole we have dug

bb12

similar to the income levy...when first introduced 2 years ago, it was billed as 'a temporary measure'...then what happened? they doubled it the next year and have now incorporated it into the USC, so it doesn't even appear on your payslip as an 'extra' tax anymore

same will happen with this property tax. god knows what they'll be charging in 5 years time for it.

and as a person who built a house last year and had to pay fingal coco a VERY large sum of money as a 'development contribution' (it has the highest rates in the country!) before i was even allowed turn a sod onsite, i find this tax very hard to take...especially when everyone is saying its going to fund the councils for the provision of parks, street lighting etc...this is EXACTLY what my development contribution was billed as also...

professore

eth0 wrote: »

I'm going to leave to a country where you don't have to pay an annual tax for living in a house that you own.

There are plenty, believe me. It's just that it's common in such brilliant places as Germany and France to have such taxes, but by no means every country.

Not having this stupid tax was one of the great things about ireland

If we had it all along and it was based on property size, it might have cooled off the property boom. At least people would think twice about buying a house as opposed to renting.

Where To

Ghandee wrote: »

Indeed I am, but do not have to pay for bins to be emptied etc.

Argument over.

So you would be happy to pay say €1500 plus if bin charges were included?

Interesting.

professore

So would people prefer higher income taxes / lower social welfare instead?

Tom

Yes

eth0

professore wrote: »

If we had it all along and it was based on property size, it might have cooled off the property boom. At least people would think twice about buying a house as opposed to renting.

Rents were ridiculously high during the boom too. They should just have increased stamp duty as this is applied to houses when they're sold and not to people simply minding their own business and not being involved in property speculation

Lets give everyone a 500e fine for merely owning a house, that should learn the speculators! bah

R P McMurphy

D1stant wrote: »

Lemlin wrote: »

What exactly is unjust about paying a €100 household charge? I find it particularly funny that Mick Wallace is refusing to pay the charge.

Good man Mick. Stand up for the poor. What about all those workers whose pensions you didn't pay Mick? Or the 20 million that you owe to Nama and we are now paying for Mick? While you collect a Dail salary Mick? Or the worker who had to take you to court to get paid Mick?

Looks like Mick is just following the norm for him. Trying to get away with not paying whatever he can avoid.

Maybe its because Mick knows that most of the houses he built are not worth €100

I am not a fan of his but I like what he did around the Italian quarter, if his other developments are anything liked that then there were plenty of worse developers around

eth0

professore wrote: »

So would people prefer higher income taxes / lower social welfare instead?

at least that applies only to money you are earning so it would be better. you could be a pauper and they'd make you sell your house so they could collect their stupid property tax. then you have to start renting and slowly eat your way through what money you have left. not good.

however once you go through this process of having your net worth reduced to 0 or less then the state has to provide you with a free house so you'll end up costing them more

Wibbs

Though let's see how long it'll remain at 100 quid. I'll make a prediction here that within 5 years(if it survives it's birth) it'll be closer to 500 quid or more.

As for the tax itself? I have no real objections to a household charge, however I do object the way it's being implemented. It should be damn well means tested. As Shenshen pointed out it's not much over the price of a pint of beer in a Dublin nightclub per month. If it is so cheap why are SW claimants exempt? There are plenty of our citizens out there earning less annually than quite a few on SW(when one includes medical cards, council housing and other "hidden" financial benefits) and they'll have to pay it. And it will apply to all pensioners too regardless of financial status. It'll apply to families already struggling to pay mortgages on houses, many of whom will have paid a large stamp duty tax on top of the tax they pay on their monthly mortgage repayments. Yet those entitled to what amounts to a "free" house won't have to forego that Nightclub pint?

This is supposed to raise 160 million and that's fine. Drop in the ocean mind you. How much are we borrowing to pay for overseas aid? It's at least triple that the last time I saw figures. Secondly it would serve the government better if they implemented real checks and balances and cross dept. cooperation in the fight against SW fraud. Never mind the payments, that's another days work, but SW fraud is a huge problem in this country. I can think of many taking the piss on that score and I'll warrant I'm not alone in that. I'd bet the farm that doing so would raise far more than 160 million quid and streamline the whole SW bill which is one of the largest bills this country pays out. It would also help get the financial aid to those folks who actually need it, because I also know people who should actually be getting more support. Of course this would require a minister/government to actually grow a pair grow a clue and implement this. But sadly I suspect that will be on the backburner and they'll just set up some overpriced and toothless quango of "consultants" to create a report outlining the fcuking obvious.

The tax itself is entirely for revenue generation. We already pay for services to our houses(bins etc). When the water charge comes in that will be pretty much complete(plus water treatment tax for rural dwellers). This charge is not for any service. Its not like car tax which (in theory) is for upkeep of road infrastructure. However if I put my car up on blocks and take it off the road I don't pay road tax as I'm not availing of that service. Ditto if I throw my telly in a skip I don't have to pay for Ryan Tubridy's suits. This is a tax on those deemed most likely to pay.

TL;DR? As a tax I've no objection, but it's implementation is IMHO seriously faulty. That's what I object to.

MungBean

Shenshen wrote: »

It's €100, that's around €8.33 a month.

I'm finding it absolutely baffling how people can get worked up over this, yet will happily spend as much on a single drink on a night out....

Get a grip. Seriously.

This is only 8 a month, the USC will only be 8 a month, medical card payment is only 4 a month, fuel allowence only cut buy pittence a month this that and the other will only be raised a little bit a month while payments are lowered by virtually nottin a month.

People who throw around this "Its only x amount a month/week/day" need to cop on. Why not tax everyone 365k in 365 thousand different payments. Shur its only a quid a go !! All sounds like nottin when your divide it down but I dont see anyone taking into account the raft of other fcukin shít that needs paying along with it.

eth0

The whole concept of property tax is a real throwback to the days when Kings owned 100% of the country's land and all ordinary people could do was rent it off him

Our rent is starting off low to get us used to the idea

gerryo777

where do i go from here wrote: »

I will pay and so will 90% of the people who say the won't.

Armchair rebels surrender easily.

That's what's wrong with this kip. F***ing lemmings who will pay & pay to give to german & french gamblers while our own country suffers massive austerity and cutbacks.
STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES!

Where To

gerryo777 wrote: »

That's what's wrong with this kip. F***ing lemmings who will pay & pay to give to german & french gamblers while our own country suffers massive austerity and cutbacks.
STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES!

Lemmings don't pay tax.

They don't jump off cliffs either.

Zebra3

D1stant wrote: »

Joe Higgins on Matt Cooper raving against it, Its all the IMF/EUs fault again

I dont really see the connection between the banks and this.

Look at the huge sums of money that are gonna be handed over to foreign failed gamblers next year, and look at how much will be brought in from this new tax.

If we weren't paying out for gambling losses, we could go without this new tax.

gerryo777

BTW, there are at least 10 TD's so far saying that they won't pay this tax and that we shouldn't either. They know that it's wrong!
Hopefully this will be the straw that finally 'breaks the camels back' and that we and our brave politicians will stand up to merkozy and regain some pride for our people.
I'm fed up with my country being treated as if its something the germans & french stood on in the street.
I'll say it now, germany right now is as dangerous as it was in the 30's and we all know what that led to.....

gerryo777

where do i go from here wrote: »

Lemmings don't pay tax.

They don't jump off cliffs either.

good chap