Another EU referendum on the way

eth0 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1208/eurozone.html

Once again we will be expected to agree to give more sovereignty to EU and accept being screwed over further while being fed a constant stream of lies about how further integration is better for us and will give us the jobs and prosperity that never arrived when we voted yes to Lisbon.

The likes of Sarkozy and Merkel will be accusing us of holding up Europe and being wreckless and all this nonsense if we vote no.

This time I'm seriously thinking of putting some new slogans on all those FF posters I took down and hanging them up around the place.

"Vote Yes, we can't afford another referendum"

"Vote Yes, make the ultimate sacrifice for Europe"

"Vote Yes, help keep the Euro alive for another year"

RichieC wrote: »

Vote yes, it doesn't matter either way.

TheZohan wrote: »

Guarantee you it will be tax harmonisation and our corporation tax.


Even if it means going to the polls a dozen times I'm voting "NO" on this one.

Shattered Dreamer wrote: »

Don't you follow the news? France & Germany want a treaty amendment to take more economic sovereignty from the member states & give it to the EU parliament in Brussels. I will be voting no because giving away more sovereignty to save what is clearly a sinking ship is pure stupidity.

sensibleken wrote: »

rate or base?

betcha it wont

The German-French plan is based on the following key provisions:

• the European Commission to have the power to impose penalties for nations that run excessive budget deficits
• all 17 eurozone nations should amend their national legislation to require balanced budgets
• the eurozone countries to have common corporation and financial transaction taxes
• any future bailouts would not require private investors to absorb part of the costs, as happened in the Greece case

TheZohan wrote: »

betcha it will.

eth0 wrote: »

They'll set the base rate to 12.5 and get us to accept the treaty promising 'no change' then they'll start increasing it in a few years

sensibleken wrote: »

whats that from? because the letter was talking about base, everyone else is talking about the rate of 12.5%.

besides doesnt mean its going to be in the treaty. as i sadi, lets wait for the question before answering it

BRUSSELS: Potentially explosive EU treaty change takes centre stage at an EU summit opening on Thursday as Europe's power couple Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy push to throw a fiscal strait-jacket on the eurozone.

The French-German demand for a rewrite of the European Union rulebook, which history has shown to be a long and politically dangerous road, aims to enshrine tough rules ensuring budgetary rigour across the 17 nations sharing the euro.

Nations agree tighter rules and better policing can help overcome the debt crisis in the long term, but are sharply divided over how to implement change and how far to go.

Why treaty change?

Because Berlin wants it. As one European diplomat put it: "The Germans fundamentally feel they were wronged by agreeing to replace the deutsche mark with the euro because member nations failed to respect the rules of the game demanding budgetary discipline in return." Given the failure of the initial and loosely-implemented Stability and Growth Pact governing the single currency, which France and Germany were the first to flout in 2004, Merkel is now calling for a "fiscal union" carving rules in stone that would be legally binding.

What changes are under consideration?

Germany had wanted the European Court of Justice to have the authority to sanction repeated budget offenders, but France was cool to that idea. So the suggestion is for the court to verify states meet the obligation of introducing a so-called "golden rule" into their legislation, requiring a balanced budget.

This way, eurozone debt levels could be brought back within a fixed threshold. Sanctions would be automatic and immediate and Brussels could be given guardianship of countries in dire straits. Special powers too could be conferred on a European commissioner to step in and intervene directly in national budgets when deemed necessary.

Are all the changes about tightening fiscal discipline?

No. EU president Herman Van Rompuy wants to also improve economic policy convergence in the 17-nation eurozone on issues such as tax, which Ireland is expected to resist to safeguard its cheaper corporate tax. With national interests and political stakes at play, others may demand a quid pro quo, notably Britain which has already threatened to scupper a deal failing EU pledges to protect the country's profitable financial sector.

How can the treaty be changed?

How to change the EU's rule-book is highly contentious. Because of a widening rift between the 17 eurozone nations and the 10 states outside the single currency, the European Commission wants treaty change to be submitted to the entire 27 to avoid deepening the chasm.

But the leaders will be asked to consider a change affecting only eurozone countries, as treaty change requires ratification by unanimous vote. This is when non-euro members, such as British Prime Minister David Cameron, may be tempted to ask for a pay-back. Under pressure from eurosceptics in his Conservative party, he could even ask to repatriate powers touching on labour laws and financial regulation to London.

TheZohan wrote: »

From the BBC and Van Rompuy.

From the ET:

sensibleken wrote: »

It doesnt say anything about base or rate. the negotiations have only just started, we dont know whats going to be in any treaty if one is even proposed. nobody knows whats going to be in a treaty that hasnt been written yet

Jacques Myard, a French MP and member of President Sarkozy's ruling UMP party, has said French people feel very strongly about the issue.

"How is it that we are helping, for instance Ireland, that they are getting from Brussels our money.

"Some people say 'Okay, we help you, but you also have to help yourself by raising your own taxes and not having a kind of advantage which is unfair competition to our enterprise'."

(RTTNews) - In a joint letter sent to European Council President Herman Van Rompuy on the eve of a key European Union summit, the leaders of France and Germany have proposed common corporate and financial transaction taxes for eurozone countries.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel called for "strengthening growth through competitiveness and convergence of the economic policies of at least the 17 eurozone member states."

The letter calls for "a new common legal framework fully compatible with the internal market to allow for faster progress in specific areas."

The framework should cover financial regulation, the labor market, convergence and harmonization of the corporation tax base and introduction of a financial transaction tax, policies that support growth and a better use of European funds within the eurozone.

The proposed tax policy is not expected to be well received by all the member states. France has long complained about Ireland's low corporation tax rate of 12.5%, while the UK has been resisting moves towards tax harmonization in the 27-nation bloc.

sensibleken wrote: »

It might be, it might not be. But making your mind up before you know what the question is is frankly retarded.

c_man wrote: »

I seriously doubt any EU referendum will pass in Ireland for a very long time.

Shattered Dreamer wrote: »

2 countries bargaining with the other 25? Clearly you missed something called the Lisbon Treaty. One of the biggest changes was the voting power each country has. France & Germany post Lisbon have 29 votes each. Through recent bullying tactic by both Nicolas Sarkozy & Angela Merkel, Italy & Greece have new leaders with ties to the European Central Bank. That's 29 more votes from Italy & 12 more from Greece. So for starters they already control 99 votes within the Parliament. Country like Spain & Portugal who are becoming increasingly weaker economically are obviously going to vote with France & Germany to avoid recession. That's a further 27 from Spain & 12 from Portugal. So that is for starters a total potential voting power for starters of 138 votes. With so much support for starters new member states are likely to follow & since most of EU member state economies are in a state of flux any measure they're told could strengthen their economies they're likely to follow.

Open your eyes there is nothing democratic about the EU. Everything that has happened with it recently has been the brain child of France & Germany. I don't see how rationally you or anybody for that matter could think voting away any more of our sovereignty is a good idea. As far as the worlds markets are concerned the Euro is a sinking ship. If you can't see it you need to lay off the EU & Irish government's kool aid

foxyboxer wrote: »

Corporation Tax.

Why do I pay 21% tax and a high earner pays 40% and a Corporation only pays 12.5%?

Boot on the other foot? Maybe they have a point?