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UFO/alien evidence
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Monty Burnz wrote: »The problem with this logic is that it would only make those with money even more rich, as they could be the first to take advantage of any new technology. It would be like giving them total ownership of the next internet-like* breakthrough - the internet has meant that the quality of life of everyone with access has improved, and has made society wealthier and more efficient. If the elite had the choice, do you think that
a) they would allow the 'new internet' technology 'out of the box'? (well they did before)
b) would they like to take ownership of such technology if it existed? (I presume they would)
*I don't mean improved network technology, I mean the next big thing that changes the way the world works
I think there may be alot of that stuff going on behind the scenes. Greer and others have said that theres a split within the elites going at about 50 / 50.
It could well be that the pro disclosure faction are in a position to capitalize, while the pro secrecy faction are the ones who own the oil, gas and electrical grids.0 -
That's an interesting point it must be said.
There is always the possibilty that changing social factors etc really did precipitated our huge leap forward technologically.
Perhaps saying that we were given a helping hand from who or whatever is undermining our own inate creativity and guile.
The point is still fascinating and obviously merits some measure of consideration even from the most sceptical amongst us.
Certainly,I wouldnt dismiss man's own creativity & guile,I couldn't,indeed over the centuries we made progress in fields of science,technology & engineering alot to the betterment of mankind but it seems that progress accelerated rapidly in the last 100 years
......we advance from generation to generation,passing down knowledge as we go but the world around us today is a vastily unrecognisable place to that of 50 yrs ago,even 25yrs ago.It just seems to have happened in such a short time scale compared to all that came before it.And i'm of the mind that the technologies & sciences we're exposed to today are not the absolutes that we possess.
We have come along way from Orville & Wilbur Wright (1899) to putting exploratory machines on Mars (2004) and the permanently manned international space station in this past century.
However,it's still baffles the greatest minds of today as to how the Pyramids were built (both Egyptian & Astecs/Myans),Machu Pichu,Easter Island,Stone henge,feats that we're unable to replicate today unless we were to use modern day technologies,engineering,science which doesnt lend itself to understanding how ancient civilisations did it.
We all know that the ancients relied upon,put great faith in and worshipped the stars and the celestial gods,it's well documented in their writings/drawings right.......we just dont know why or how they did what they did and knew what they knew.0 -
EarlERizer wrote: »Certainly,I wouldnt dismiss man's own creativity & guile,I couldn't,indeed over the centuries we made progress in fields of science,technology & engineering alot to the betterment of mankind but it seems that progress accelerated rapidly in the last 100 years
......we advance from generation to generation,passing down knowledge as we go but the world around us today is a vastily unrecognisable place to that of 50 yrs ago,even 25yrs ago.It just seems to have happened in such a short time scale compared to all that came before it.And i'm of the mind that the technologies & sciences we're exposed to today are not the absolutes that we possess.
We have come along way from Orville & Wilbur Wright (1899) to putting exploratory machines on Mars (2004) and the permanently manned international space station in this past century.
However,it's still baffles the greatest minds of today as to how the Pyramids were built (both Egyptian & Astecs/Myans),Machu Pichu,Easter Island,Stone henge,feats that we're unable to replicate today unless we were to use modern day technologies,engineering,science which doesnt lend itself to understanding how ancient civilisations did it.
We all know that the ancients relied upon,put great faith in and worshipped the stars and the celestial gods,it's well documented in their writings/drawings right.......we just dont know why or how they did what they did and knew what they knew.
I think you've got a very good point.
From my experience here I felt it was best for me to temper my fascination with what you've outlined by stating that I can also comprehend the more widely held view on such topics.
The progress we've made over the last century or so is astounding.
There are compelling arguments to be made for humans not being the sole protaginists of this advance nor as you eluded to the astonishing feats of engineering we oh so humbly (sarcasm detector going mad now) describe as archaic structures built by primative people.
Perhaps an advanced human society existed a long way back in pre history and humans were responsible for utilising the knowledge employed in building the pyramids etc... or maybe there was some outside intervention.
Alas these ideas or theories cannot be proven, nor conclusively disproven so all we can do for now is wonder.Glazers Out!
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EarlERizer wrote: »However,it's still baffles the greatest minds of today as to how the Pyramids were built (both Egyptian & Astecs/Myans),Machu Pichu,Easter Island,Stone henge,feats that we're unable to replicate today unless we were to use modern day technologies,engineering,science which doesnt lend itself to understanding how ancient civilisations did it.0
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EarlERizer wrote: »
However,it's still baffles the greatest minds of today as to how the Pyramids were built (both Egyptian & Astecs/Myans),Machu Pichu,Easter Island,Stone henge,feats that we're unable to replicate today unless we were to use modern day technologies,engineering,science which doesnt lend itself to understanding how ancient civilisations did it.
This fallacy comes up a lot here and it's instantly debunked with one video.
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Except that's not quite true.
This fallacy comes up a lot here and it's instantly debunked with one video.
That video doesn't 'debunk' anything. All it does is provide a possible explanation, a good explanation it may be, but saying that the video 'instantly debunks' what EarlERizer says, is the fallacy.
There is absolutely no archaeological evidence to show that the techniques employed in that video were used when building ancient structures.0 -
My name is URL wrote: »That video doesn't 'debunk' anything. All it does is provide a possible explanation, a good explanation it may be, but saying that the video 'instantly debunks' what EarlERizer says, is the fallacy.
There is absolutely no archaeological evidence to show that the techniques employed in that video were used when building ancient structures.
He said:...Stone henge,feats that we're unable to replicate today unless we were to use modern day technologies,engineering,science
Hence debunked.0 -
He said:
And there's a guy replicating the feat using no modern day technologies,engineering,science.
Hence debunked.
How do you know for sure that he didn't use any modern technology, engineering or science? Is there any physical evidence whatsoever that the tools or techniques he used in the video were used in different cultures all over the world to build massive structures?0 -
GarlicBread wrote: »Wrong.
The FAA guy, John Callahan, presents the radar tapes and records on stage. Thats official hard FAA evidence of ufos going thousands of miles per hour. The CIA guys who briefed him afterward forgot to take the evidence away .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgNvVqMEFdI
I see him waving stuff around, has it been released?
He doesn't mention anything about thousands of miles an hour anyway He describes a UFO incident which the CIA allegedly covered up. Sounds to me like some sort of military research that they don't want getting out. I'd take the description of "huge ball with lights running around it" with a pinch of salt. How close was it? He probably gave the best description he could without being able to discern every detail.EarlERizer wrote: »I'm of the same (or simular) mindset as you Dave but I do always wonder ,why would they do it? risk ridicule,social exclusion by their peers,subjected to been labelled 'cranks' & 'wierdo's' ,be laughed at by the majority & not taken seriously,why would anyone of good standing or elevated status put themselves through all that
......unless what they were saying was true or that they 100% beleived it to be.....I mean, would you take the 'risk' if you didnt whole heartedly believe you had seen/experienced something simular? I don't think I could.
But,like you ,I always ask "why,if they have it,cant we see this supposed evidence,why do we have to always wait for the right time? and when will that be?"
I'm sure that most are sincere, but they haven't presented any smoking gun evidence yet, so really all we have is people who witness anomalies or unexplained events, and believe they were aliens. In many cases I'd say the situation is that there is some sort of military research being conducted, or some sort of national security breach (like a foreign aircraft flying over the country), which the person isn't cleared to know about, and which the governments want to cover up. Once you see 'classified' or 'top secret', or have CIA agents trying to cover something up, then everyone's imagination runs wild if they're that way inclined. I don't think that an FAA official is immune to the conspiracy thinking that goes on in this forum, just as I don't think that a policeman or a pilot ('reliable witnesses') is immune to being mistaken in what they observe. They're human too.
Another possibility that came to mind is that some of these people simply believe in aliens, believe there's a cover-up, etc., and so in their mind fabricating a story, if it helps put pressure on governments to come clean, is in the grand scheme of things perfectly legitimate. Just an idea.0 -
My name is URL wrote: »How do you know for sure that he didn't use any modern technology, engineering or science? Is there any physical evidence whatsoever that the tools or techniques he used in the video were used in different cultures all over the world to build massive structures?
Videos of these things are needed to debunk the type of simply incorrect 'received wisdom' that has somehow come to dominate the public's knowledge of ancient monuments - that nobody knows how it could have been done, with the implication that something supernatural happened. We know very well how all these things could have been done - it's the exact methods used that are the mystery.
This type of received wisdom is in the same category as the meme about us using only 10% of our brains.0 -
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I see him waving stuff around, has it been released?
He doesn't mention anything about thousands of miles an hour anyway He describes a UFO incident which the CIA allegedly covered up. Sounds to me like some sort of military research that they don't want getting out. I'd take the description of "huge ball with lights running around it" with a pinch of salt. How close was it? He probably gave the best description he could without being able to discern every detail.
I'm sure that most are sincere, but they haven't presented any smoking gun evidence yet, so really all we have is people who witness anomalies or unexplained events, and believe they were aliens. In many cases I'd say the situation is that there is some sort of military research being conducted, or some sort of national security breach (like a foreign aircraft flying over the country), which the person isn't cleared to know about, and which the governments want to cover up. Once you see 'classified' or 'top secret', or have CIA agents trying to cover something up, then everyone's imagination runs wild if they're that way inclined. I don't think that an FAA official is immune to the conspiracy thinking that goes on in this forum, just as I don't think that a policeman or a pilot ('reliable witnesses') is immune to being mistaken in what they observe. They're human too.
Another possibility that came to mind is that some of these people simply believe in aliens, believe there's a cover-up, etc., and so in their mind fabricating a story, if it helps put pressure on governments to come clean, is in the grand scheme of things perfectly legitimate. Just an idea.
Heres the wiki page for the incident, a japanese cargo plane harassed by a giant flying wallnut, yes, a damn wallnut that was somthing like 4 times bigger than the plane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_flight_1628_incident
Heres John Callahan on camara again with the evidence in his hands close up. Towards the end of the clip they zoom in and you can see the files and stuff. Its real evidence, it really exists in his hands, full stop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_w1OPgoR5M
The ufo was going thousands of miles per hour becuase it was appearing and disappearing from the left and right of the plane to many miles in front of it in the space of 4 - 5 seconds.
The japanese pilot was tramatized and when he told the truth his mental health was brought into question. He had 29 years experience flying. He saw the ufo out the front of the window, and there were two smaller ones aswell. The radar showed it being there and it was cross coroborated with tho co-pilot and control room people working on the ground. Watch this clip from a documentary about it, its a reinactment, its gives a good account of the event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMn1PiNZfkU
This case was picked by the disclosure project because its a proven case with multiple witnesses. It will not be explained away by saying that they were just imagining it. It deserves a critical eye yes, but it also deserves some deep thought about what or who was flying around in a giant wallnut. The idea that the US military were producing these kind of craft in 1986 is not a viable theory.0 -
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Dr Carol Rosin ,Heavily involved with the disclosure project has been working on the "Space Treaty of 2011" with former Apollo astronaut, Edgar Mitchell.She talks of different species in space and how they don't abduct people anymore.
She claims People in high places have information about all this.She also claims that she and others connected with the disclosure project had a 1 hour meeting with some ET's about this "peace treaty"
Now given the involvement the ruling class have with the disclosure project ,I'm gonna bet some species of "aliens" will not agree to this treaty, if you know what I mean!!;).And what happens next? Well I have my own ideas, but I'm saying nothing at the moment.The annoying thing is, she is the very woman that warned everyone in 2001 about the "last card" that would be played by governments to fool the public about the threat the ET's will pose to us.
The treaty is belowAstronaut and Aerospace Experts Introduce New Space Treaty
Proponents of the banning of space-based weaponry have drafted a Treaty which will ban space-based weapons and acknowledges the existence of extraterrestrial cultures.
Dr. Carol Rosin released the Outer Space Security and Development Treaty of 2011 during her presentation at the International UFO Congress held last weekend in Scottsdale, Arizona to a standing ovation. Dr. Rosin, an aerospace consultant, drafted the Treaty along with Dr. Scott Jones, a former senior aide to U.S. Senator Claiborne Pell, Apollo astronaut, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, former Boeing executive Abe Krieger, and retired naval Commander Will Miller.
Just last week the Associated Press covered a story regarding Pentagon leaders calling for the U.S. to strengthen the military in space, emphasizing the importance of satellites in waging war. They reported that General Kevin Chilton, recently retired from leading the U.S. Strategic Command, said, “We need to be thinking about how we would go into future conflicts and make sure that we unlevel [that] battlefield in our favor.” He said space has “become a critical part of every other [battlefield] domain.”
However, this new Treaty points out the huge costs, dangers, and threats to all on Earth and in Space from space-based weaponry, emphasizing that space-based weapons would block as Dr. Rosin says, “unlimited benefits and opportunities available to all humankind in areas of health, education, the economy, mutual security, energy, and the environment, from cooperative ventures in space.” This Treaty points out that peaceful, world cooperative civil, commercial, entrepreneurial and military ventures will help solve urgent and potential problems of human needs, our environment and energy, stimulate economies, jobs and profits, and build security systems based on collaboration rather than confrontation. Indigenous nations are parties to the treaty, which can be made a law with nine nation state signatories.
Taking a lead from the recent press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. where military officers testified that they were present when UFOs deactivated nuclear missiles, the Treaty goes on to state that, “to neutralize any missile or nuclear capability is in itself not a threat message, but does serve notice of our limited understanding of physics and the clearly dangerous consequences of continuing to use destructive technologies.” This sentiment is shared by the gentlemen who held the press conference.
Dr. Rosin stated, “This Treaty calls on nation state presidents to immediately become Signatories to this Treaty: to sign, ratify, and send it to the office of the UN Secretary General that is the Treaty Depositary. Participants in the International UFO Congress as well as all world citizens can send this Treaty to presidents as part of a grassroots Call to Action.”
The treaty in it’s entirety can be downloaded here
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Monty Burnz wrote: »But they are not baffled as in 'how the hell could they have done it?', they are baffled as to which of various techniques they used. They are very impressive pieces of work, but then humans are very ingenious (as demonstrated by trips to the moon, genetic engineering etc. etc.).
Exactly,my point been that that's were we've gotten in the last 100 years since the Wright brothers first took flight.
They are baffled by which techniques they used as each technique they suggested 'may have' been used is still a hugh task to undertake (in relation to the scale of what they built) even in todays world.
I'm not saying my points or suggestions are absolute, all i'm saying is that it's an area for consideration and open minded thinking.The feats achieved way back then to what we are achieving in todays advanced technological world are amazing....so is the fact that inbetween the tie scale of building of such structures as the pyramids and the last 100 years there seems to be centuries of very slow 'progress' in man's amazing talents.
But as i said, just my opinion,not saying its fact.0 -
Except that's not quite true.
This fallacy comes up a lot here and it's instantly debunked with one video.
that video is like comparing the size of an apple to the size of the moon. let him try and move these megaliths http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/top50stones.htm this website publisher's comments are rediculous as to using 37,000 men to lift a megalith as there is no possible way for that many people to be close together or behind eachother to lift such a thing in the first place. but this just show's you the size some of these blocks are.0 -
My name is URL wrote: »How do you know for sure that he didn't use any modern technology, engineering or science?My name is URL wrote: »Is there any physical evidence whatsoever that the tools or techniques he used in the video were used in different cultures all over the world to build massive structures?0
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EarlERizer wrote: »Exactly,my point been that that's were we've gotten in the last 100 years since the Wright brothers first took flight.
They are baffled by which techniques they used as each technique they suggested 'may have' been used is still a hugh task to undertake (in relation to the scale of what they built) even in todays world.
I'm not saying my points or suggestions are absolute, all i'm saying is that it's an area for consideration and open minded thinking.The feats achieved way back then to what we are achieving in todays advanced technological world are amazing....so is the fact that inbetween the tie scale of building of such structures as the pyramids and the last 100 years there seems to be centuries of very slow 'progress' in man's amazing talents.
But as i said, just my opinion,not saying its fact.0 -
that video is like comparing the size of an apple to the size of the moon. let him try and move these megaliths http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/top50stones.htmthis website publisher's comments are rediculous as to using 37,000 men to lift a megalith as there is no possible way for that many people to be close together or behind eachother to lift such a thing in the first place. but this just show's you the size some of these blocks are.0
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that video is like comparing the size of an apple to the size of the moon. let him try and move these megaliths http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/top50stones.htm this website publisher's comments are rediculous as to using 37,000 men to lift a megalith as there is no possible way for that many people to be close together or behind eachother to lift such a thing in the first place. but this just show's you the size some of these blocks are.
So if one guy can move 40 tonnes, it's not unreasonable to suggest that that 30 guys could have moved the biggest stone in history.
Edit: I watched the video again, and I think I misheard the weight of the block the first time: I think it's actually closer to 10 tonnes. So adjust all the numbers accordingly...0 -
Because they show the entire process? And anything he did use modern technology for (like say sawing the wood, making the blocks) are all doable in the ancient world, just less efficiently.
You mean wood, rocks and levers? Yes.
Look at the size of the platform he used to shift a relatively small rock. How come, with so many monolithic sights throughout the world, no such platform has ever been unearthed? Are there even any depictions of such things?.. they depicted just about everything else.0 -
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My name is URL wrote: »Look at the size of the platform he used to shift a relatively small rock. How come, with so many monolithic sights throughout the world, no such platform has ever been unearthed? Are there even any depictions of such things?.. they depicted just about everything else.0
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Monty Burnz wrote: »Presumably the platform was wooden? And the wood would be a valuable resource to re-use as fuel or whatever. When you say 'they' depicted just about everything else, who are you referring to?
To be fair he made a valid point. Surely some evidence of such a platform would exist somewhere.
I'm accustomed to the sceptics refering to the burdon of proof etc most of the time, surely you should apply that logic evenly?Glazers Out!
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Except that's not quite true.
This fallacy comes up a lot here and it's instantly debunked with one video.
Thats a great vid and a very impressive peice of work indeed,It certainly gives some kind of technique to the building of the henges however I would like to see if he has a video for moving the same peices up an incline as with the building of the pyramids.
I dont doubt that man (enough of them) could achieve these feats,after all its just a structure and as some have said ,it's doable,the thing about the pryamids that strikes me is their perfect alignment,not only with eachother but with the stars above , and again with those of the Inca's n Astecs.0 -
To be fair he made a valid point. Surely some evidence of such a platform would exist somewhere.
I'm accustomed to the sceptics refering to the burdon of proof etc most of the time, surely you should apply that logic evenly?
By the same token, we know that people got to the Americas after the landbridge was broken and before Columbus arrived. If we can't find their wooden boats, I hope you would agree that it would be odd to assume that they got there in alien spaceships or by other supernatural means, and that it would be a lot more logical to assume that the wood was just lost to history.0 -
Stonehenge was a pile of rubble up until the early 19th century.
The configuration of the stones as you see them now was fairly recent endeavour carried out by well meaning Victorian amateur Gentleman anthropologists and crypto-archaeologists.0 -
My name is URL wrote: »Look at the size of the platform he used to shift a relatively small rock. How come, with so many monolithic sights throughout the world, no such platform has ever been unearthed?
Remember the claim was:...Stone henge,feats that we're unable to replicate today unless we were to use modern day technologies,engineering,science
Hence the claim is debunked.My name is URL wrote: »Are there even any depictions of such things?.. they depicted just about everything else.0 -
EarlERizer wrote: »Thats a great vid and a very impressive peice of work indeed,It certainly gives some kind of technique to the building of the henges however I would like to see if he has a video for moving the same peices up an incline as with the building of the pyramids.EarlERizer wrote: »I dont doubt that man (enough of them) could achieve these feats,after all its just a structure and as some have said ,it's doable,the thing about the pryamids that strikes me is their perfect alignment,not only with eachother but with the stars above , and again with those of the Inca's n Astecs.
So in what way are they aligned with each other that makes them impossible without introducing ridiculous explanations like magic or aliens?0 -
If one guy can move 10 tonne blocks by himself in his spare time I'm sure that a team of dedicated workers can figure out a good way to do it up a hill without resorting to magic.
without introducing ridiculous explanations like magic or aliens?
That's twice you've referred to 'magic' & 'aliens' , I dont recall claiming any such thing.
I apologize if I've been influenced by pseudo-historians , and again for my thinking not been in line with your obvious vast knowledge of everything to the contrary.
Atleast if anything,this thread has unearthed a source for all things we may need answers too.
In regard to my claim re: stonehenge/pyramids & the vide to debunk said claim,thanks for the hard evidence.
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So in what way are they aligned with each other that makes them impossible without introducing ridiculous explanations like magic or aliens?0
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Monty Burnz wrote: »I agree. But you can't expect to find pebbles and planks of wood lying around after 5000 years.
By the same token, we know that people got to the Americas after the landbridge was broken and before Columbus arrived. If we can't find their wooden boats, I hope you would agree that it would be odd to assume that they got there in alien spaceships or by other supernatural means, and that it would be a lot more logical to assume that the wood was just lost to history.
You're more or less agreeing with what i said then, I haven't said one hypothesis is more relibale than the other and I've entertained both.
However using an assumption as proof is hardly conclusive is it?
It's just interesting to think about all possibilities.Glazers Out!
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