Did it ever make sense to move from an old combustion car to a new EV

Yes but the purchase price of the ID7 and the cost of servicing the loan to purchase the ID7 vs the (I presume paid off) golf would wipe out any savings made on fuel, tax, servicing etc.

Everyone's circumstances are different. Most people would not be going from a 15 year old car directly to a new car in one step because that's a big investment, they'd need a few grand minimum for the deposit and a hefty monthly loan. More likely they'd go from that 15 year old car, to a 7 or 8 year old car that they can either buy with cash, or finance with a small loan and no/low deposit

In my own specific circumstances. I worked out that I could pay a 200 euro car loan purely from the fuel savings I would make in not driving my existing ICE to do the school runs and dropping kids into their activities/local trips for shopping. Every month, I was doing enough of those kinds of miles, that I could get a Leaf on finance and the entire loan repayment would cost less than me simply keeping my existing car and driving it around as I was before

We were gonna get a 2nd car anyway, so the additional tax and insurance was the cost of doing business.

We were more than happy with the Leaf which can do about 130km on a charge which is more than enough for even our busiest day going in and out to the nearby town, and having the 2nd car available for any unexpected journeys or trips with the family means that the 2nd car will last longer as the short trips do disproportionate damage to the mechanics of the car, will be more fuel efficient (it's way more economical on longer drives than short hops) and we got a car worth 10k for basically nothing

Because, it is easy, quick, convenient, cost effective compared to the €17.80 per day in cost to change as per post no 74 in this thread, note, not depreciation, a cost of € 6,500 in a year to own an EV excluding electricity, insurance, tax and repayments based on a cost to change of €13,000 after two years.

That is a shed load of tax and fuel for an ICE.

At the current € 1.78 per Ltr of Unleaded, If I subtract my insurance and the tax on my 2002 Octavia RS 1.8t (note I am picking the thirstiest car I have to hand) I'm left with €5,750 which is 3,230 Ltrs of unleaded. at 7.8 Ltrs per 100km which is the combined fuel consumption that is a whopping 41,410 Km's of petrol.

For a laugh, lets do the same with my S40 1.6d miser **** box, Tax is less, insurance is more, leaves roughly the same, so € 5,750 at € 1.74 per Ltr Diesel = 3,304 Ltrs at the combined 3.4 Ltrs per 100 km that is 97,194km.

Again, the sums, they just do not add up. The EV makes no sense.

I do all my own servicing, costs are therefore minimal, a timing belt is €20, Oil is cheap, Filters are a few Euro, 2 clutches since 1999, one flywheel, one EGR, 0 DPF's 0 CATS.

I can not be convinced of the financial benefit, it is just not there as far as I can see, want to save money on motoring, just buy an older car, you could save thousands a year.

I don't think anyone would argue a brand new any car makes sense against a fully depreciated old car that someone is happy to service themselves financially, did someone say it did? You argument isn't against evs it's against new cars.

Gs does all his own servicing, which most of us can't do, so his logic doesn't apply to us. His servicing costs would probably increase if he switched to EV unlike us.

ICE servicing would include more than just oil. Oil filter, sump washer, air filter(s), spark plugs if petrol. And that's just standard service items.

Just for him since he does his own servicing. That's not open to all. Only for a vanishingly small percentage. Also would call into question his 3.4l/100km for the S40. Published consumption for that car is 7.7l/100km combined. That's when new. Goes as high as 11 for urban.

I don't really get the premise of this thread. One could easily replace the word "EV" for "car" and nearly all the same arguments would apply. It almost never makes sense to switch to a brand new car, as you are hit with the full depreciation and nearly always need finance and the associated costs that go with it regardless of the rate of finance. It just seems like another angle of attacking EVs.

"Because, it is easy, quick, convenient, cost effective"

I find it far more convenient to plug my car in on my driveway every 4 or 5 days than to go to a fuel station and pump petrol/diesel into the car. At least I know my pump is clean, whereas i'm sure at least one person in the dozens before me holding the petrol/diesel pump had either just been picking their nose, or scratching their nuts before they got out to fill up.

"compared to the €17.80 per day in cost to change"

The additional cost of depreciation only happens when you switch to a newer, more expensive car. Note I say "car", because it applies to any car (with few exceptions) regardless of fuel type it takes. You must have been talking about post #75 in this thread on the KONA comparison.

Well, if you look again, you will see that the price difference between a new petrol or electric version, the difference is tiny. The petrol version is €31,950 vs €32,797 for the EV. The EV is also a higher spec and while the petrol version has 3k klms on the clock, the EV has 17klms, so has only delivery miles on it. Maybe it's a facelift thing, or something like that, as the EV look a little different, but it's the same make/model with different drive train and I know what I would rather be in if I had to drive a KONA. It's hard to find like for like examples, as there are few models that share EV and ICE drivetrains. I find comparable cars to be now similar in EV/ICE such as the Nissan Juke and Leaf.

As I have already said above your post, making this and EV depreciation thread is pointless, because the same argument can be had for petrol and diesel cars. If you change out your old banger for a newer car, it will cost you.

"At the current € 1.78 per Ltr of Unleaded, If I subtract my insurance and the tax on my 2002 Octavia RS 1.8t (note I am picking the thirstiest car I have to hand) I'm left with €5,750 which is 3,230 Ltrs of unleaded. at 7.8 Ltrs per 100km which is the combined fuel consumption that is a whopping 41,410 Km's of petrol."

Better still. Let's not assume you would be switching to an EV for your example. Let's say you switch to a new Octavia RS. The cheapest RS is €48k. The oldest RS I could find was a 2008 Diesel for under €3k. So, you sell yours for €3k and you are left with €45k to pay for the new car. The best rate with AIB for a car loan is at 8.95% with monthly payments over 5 years being €1,007. You will get better MPG for sure, but that's a lot of tax and fuel. Too much? I agree.

Let's say you buy a 3 year old one. Cheapest Octavia VRS is €37k 2ltr diesel with over 100k klms on the clock. Sell your for €3k and you owe €34k. That's €761 per month, with cost of credit being over €7k.

"Again, the sums, they just do not add up. The EV makes no sense."

We could do this with any upgrade, petrol, diesel, or EV….take your pick. If you want a new car which is not a class, or brand/marque change from your current car, you will pay more. End of. Instead of saying the EV makes no sense, or the sums don't add up, you may want to reframe the argument.

"I do all my own servicing, costs are therefore minimal, a timing belt is €20, Oil is cheap, Filters are a few Euro, 2 clutches since 1999, one flywheel, one EGR, 0 DPF's 0 CATS."

Most people can't or won't do all their own servicing and very few can tackle a timing belt. You are in a minority there and hats off to you for doing it yourself. I used to do all the basic servicing on my ICE cars…oil, filters, consumables. Changed out several CATs, break pads/discs, batteries, alternators, cluster gauges. Hardwired dual dash cams. A few other bits and pieces that most people don't do. It does not add to the argument here because you have to value your own time and expertise too. That has a value.

"I can not be convinced of the financial benefit, it is just not there as far as I can see, want to save money on motoring, just buy an older car, you could save thousands a year."

There you have it. You have left out "EV" and replaced it with "older car" and it makes more financial sense. However, a car is not just an A to B. For most people, it's an emotional purchase. For some, it's about going from a micro-car to an SUV. For others, it's getting a newer plate. And for a few, it's just about not worrying if their timing belt is about to fly off and destroy the engine, leaving them late for work that day. We all have our reasons and thank the lord some people buy new cars, so others can buy used cars later at a much cheaper price, be they ICE or EV.

But no one is claiming that a new €50k EV makes financial sense when compared with keeping your existing old car which has little or no depreciation left. Fuel savings will never make up for €20-30k in depreciation of a new car over its first 3yrs.

Thats not an EV thing, thats old vs new, regardless of whether its ICE or EV.

The only comparison that should really be made is if you are upgrading to a new (or secondhand) car anyway and you compare two cars in the same segment for similar money.

e.g. You want to buy a crossover and you are comparing a Tiguan to an ID.4 or for saloon a Model 3 to a Corolla etc

this has been explained twice now, a few of you seem to be arguing against something that was never claimed

In a shock development a new car costs more than an old car.

If you drive the EV for enough klms and keep it long enough, then yes, the saving will be made with the EV. But that's not really your argument.

Your argument applies to any newer car in the same category/brand/marque, or am I missing some other point you are trying to make which applies only to EVs and not Petrol/Diesel cars?

Something that costs nothing can only appreciate 😁

So the title of the thread is correct then.

one that magically cost nothing?- no.

Correct only in the sense that shít attracts flies and sometimes we need to hose it down the drain.

It's a stupid question, as it focuses on EVs only when the very same argument you are making applies to any newer car.

The real question should be whether it makes sense to change to a newer EV if buying a new car anyway. Often the answer is yes. Sometimes the answer is no. Debate open.

It'd probably be closer to 250 a day assuming they don't do big mileage at the weekend. Still doable, but you might need something bigger than 40kWh.

That's because it's dogma. They aren't really having a discussion.

What's more they are just on repeat across many threads. It's white noise making it a chore to post. It's detrimental to boards itself.

There's many reasons to change car many not financial at all. The thread title does not exclude them.

Also not everyone buys a new car to replace an older one. They might buy a newer older car. After the worst of the depreciation has passed.

They buy it to get any number of newer features. I really like not having to go to a petrol station that often.

Autodoc.ie

Gates €21.10

Febi €16.55

Bosch €17.98

Contitech €24.16

There are cheaper ones if you want too.

You will note I said a belt is €20, I didn't say a kit including all the other bits that are likely to be perfectly serviceable, I use my own judgement, no sense in replacing a pump I replaced a few years before when I'm just changing the part vunerable to failure

yeah so the previous statement I was replying to is incorrect.
An EV is not cheaper than an ICE.
Unless you’re comparing a new ICE with a new EV- then yes running costs will be cheaper.
However a perfectly good second hand ICE bought for cash vs a brand new EV would not be cheaper to run. (due to loan costs being factored in).

Therefore the statement that I replied to would be false.

It’s that obvious 😉

Why would you compare a new EV with a second hand ICE😂

Why not compare a new EV vs a new ICE or a used EV vs a used ICE?

What a strange argument, obviously the newer car is going to be more expensive😂

Likewise, a new ICE would be much more expensive to buy than a second hand EV. The EV would also be cheaper to run. Why are we pointing out the obvious here?

They are couldn’t be cheaper to run vs a cash bought ICE for say 10k though.
So therefore in that case an ICE would be cheaper than an EV.