sam the diesels are serviced at connolly and sets are swapped out along with the rest of the maintenence regime, none of this is going to be changed so the diesels are just going to run to connolly empty regardless.
so that alone puts paid to what you are looking for as well as the fact that turfing people off on to a dart doing the same couple of stops just makes no sense anyway.
if you are doing that then it's on to the all stops or just run the diesel with passengers.
I must be missing something. I am not suggesting every train be turned at Bray, just one or two. Passengers are not turfed out, they just change trains.
A train can travel from Rosslare to Connolly without having to be serviced. Presumably it travelled from Connolly to Rosslare originally. But it cannot run from Wexford to Bray without having to run to Connolly for service.
What I am suggesting is quite simple. The Wexford train travels to Bray (run time 1 hr 50 min) and parks in Platform 3. Passengers transfer across the platform to a waiting Dart, which then sets off for Connolly (run time 45 min). That is the same arrival time that the original Wexford train would have arrived at. Now the connecting Dart from Connolly arrives in platform 2 and passengers cross to platform 3 onto the waiting train that then sets off for Wexford. This Wexford train will have spent 3 hours travelling.
If the train leaves Wexford at 6 am, it will arrive in Bray at 7 45 am. Say it leaves Bray at 8 am, it will arrive in Wexford at 9 45 am. That is well over two hours earlier than the current timetable. One train doing this would be a huge improvement in service to Wexford from Dublin.
By car, Wexford to Bray Dart Station does an average speed 90 km/h vs the train averages 67 km/h. Bring that up to 120 km/h would bring travelling time to about 60 mins. That would be huge by increasing the number of passengers and makes better use of the rolling stock.
There must be reasons why this cannot happen.
To be fair, I fully acknowledge it isn't perfect. It's the most constrained line going into Dublin, which is unfortunate but very real. I fully support the requirement for decent facilities at whichever interchange station is chosen.
Comparison of lines:
The Northern line has only 6 stations between Connolly and Clongriffin where a passing 3rd line will be constructed.
The Sligo line has 11 stations between Maynooth and Connolly, but also benefits from 4 tracks between Glasnevin Junction and Connolly/Spencer Dock.
The SW line will have 4 tracks all the way into Heuston from HH, currently 3.
The Southern line has 17 stations between Greystones and Connolly and a section of single alignment.
Big difference...
You’ve never travelled with a toddler, young child, pregnant woman, old person or person with kidney problems, have you?
This isn’t a good option for those people, or people with baggage or people who want to be comfortable in long trips so it will drive them to alternate options like buses or cars. Other people will be happy with the improved frequency and the lack of IC facilities won’t bother them.
Let’s not pretend this is perfect, it’s a compromise. Snide remarks about people holding their bladder is a great way of discussing it.
its not just about toilets, you could have over 200 people standing around for an hour.
Be interesting to see the effects of the Dart going to once every 5/6 minutes. Even with the signal upgrades, this is still going to massively effect every IC that had to come in on any track that isn't quad.
Probably a long time off for now, but it is still IRs eventual aim.
@endoftheroad People spend over an hour on Dublin Bus every day, twice a day. Or any other public transport service, or private vehicle for that matter. They manage just fine without a toilet.
Pick your arguments here!!
This is a very legitimate concern. IR have made clear, the proposal has not been decided. It's early stage of scoping.
One would have to assume that proper facilities would be installed at whichever station might serve as a terminus. Absolutely a non runner if those services are not put in place prior to any change.
The bigger issue, I foresee, is southbound passengers having to wait in a windswept Greystones train station with little to no facilities for up to an hour for their next train.
the suggestion to curtail the rosslare services at greystones is not about dart or about improving things. the reality is a direct service even if slow is going to be a vast improvement over turfing people off at wicklow or greystones onto a suburban service with increased journey times. once dart+ happens there will be plenty of rolling stock to operate an increased frequency, trying to operate it with the current rolling stock and staff is unworkable even with turfing everyone off at greystones because the capacity to support the lines usership is currently not enough anyway. ultimately, it will only be direct services from sligo and rosslare and belfast etc that will be happening, because the politicians in sligo will insure it and we have enough power down here now between campaign groups and local politicians to insure it. the only reason for this nonsense is the NTA'S want to simply kill off rail outside parts of the GDA for their own political reasons whatever they are, which is very obvious hence why coming up with dum sollutions rather then getting real.
God, some of the responses here, it sounds a bit like Ryan Tubridy before the oireachtas committee. All we’re missing is a comment about how the poor misfortunate children of Wicklow and Wexford will be forced to change trains. How will they manage it? Think of the children!
it more or less does, the technical term for the others is regional.
but for the most part both overlap in terms of service quality, at least in terms of onboard environment.
there will be differences though such as cork and belfast having a little bit more aspects to the service quality.
lx's point still stands though whichever terms you use.
i agree, i support it's reopening.
but i really don't believe there will be dublin services via that route.
Mad stuff: last time I was in Bunclody it was quite hilly.
well why should they if they don't necessarily need to go at that point but may do so a bit later, all to suit a discredited plan?
AIRR has a proposed chord line to dump Sligo services in to Heuston
It's all purely down to the mechanics of the line and the constraints caused by the level of services running along it and the associated speed requirements. Because of the DART running every 10 minutes north of Bray and being a full stopping service, it is impossible to get a gap for an Intercity service to run as a higher speed express all the way to Dublin city. Hence the suggestion to curtail the service to Greystones, removing the hour-long stretch to Dublin; which means that in exchange for a change of train, the section from Greystones to Rosslare get a more frequent service using the same amount of rolling stock and staffing.
It's a similar situation that might have to happen with the Sligo services when we get to DART West. Currently with the Maynooth line only being a half-hourly service off-peak, there is sufficient room for the Intercity trains to run express from Connolly in only 30 minutes, as opposed to the 45 minutes of the Commuter services. But when the service frequency increases in the peak (both on the Maynooth line, and the M3 branch direct to/from Docklands), the Intercity has to slow to make room — taking 40 minutes to traverse Maynooth–Connolly. This will only get worse once the line becomes DART and service frequency increases even more.
we already know a shuttle will fail, it offers nothing worth bothering with, just no point in wasting time trialling something we know will fail. i've been a user of the line for nearly 40 years so i am well aware of it's issues and what it actually needs doing to deal with them, and this plan is not that. direct services are absolutely an efficient use of resources as they provide people with a comfortable direct service and it means no empty running otherwise known as ECS moves which would be happening with this idea due to the reasons i explained in previous posts. you will never make the change time neutral because it's impossible unless everyone engages in a ridiculously fast stampede across to the other train and one wants people crushed, personally that's not what i want. i'm basing my arguments on actual facts and actual realities as well as my nearly 40 years of knowledge of the line.
Macmine Junction line reopening would keep some of the people objecting on railfan bases quite happy.
It's not in the AIRR so definitely a crayon suggestion but it's only 40km from Enniscorthy to Carlow via Bunclody through open fairly flat countryside, if they really wanted to divert the Wexford service into Heuston.
I'll add,
• close all the level crossings
If I owned the crayons for this line, I would
But maybe it's good that I don't own the crayons…
Only Belfast out of those three is a city. The InterCity label should really only apply to Belfast, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford.
not only is it not a reasonable compromise but it's not a compromise at all. the journey time would be quite substantially effected by this, not to mention that even if it was the case that rosslare line passengers were all able to get a seat, it means those previously able to get a seat up the line will not be able to do so. ultimately, it provides a worse service over all for all but tries to make it look like a better service will be provided, essentially it's a shifting of the deck chairs to replace crap deck chairs for some with broken deck chairs.
the line from bray to connolly is not as constrained as being made out, there are some constraints but with future signalling and the fact they are running a 10 minute frequency and direct rosslare services, dispite many of us fearing that 10 minutes wouldn't be possible with the current infrastructure, it is clear that there is capacity for all with increased frequencies possible for all with more darts and more direct rosslare services.
bray to greystones is a bit of an issue but that is going to have to be addressed regardless, there is no getting out of that.
Sure Waterford is the real capital of the South East. Reinstating direct Wexford-Waterford services will be a great asset to Wexford. South Wexford line for the win.
there is not going to be services to dublin from wexford or towns north via the south wexford line.
lets just put that to bed.
as i said to you before, this is even more nonsensical then simply turfing them off at wherever and letting them get the all stops which is nonsensical as it is. so you turf them off on to a dart that just does a couple of stops and the diesel will still run empty to connolly as there is not going to be a depot or servicing facilities built to serve them somewhere on the rosslare line. and before you bring it up, they could deliver a direct train to wexford tomorrow if they wanted to but not only is the stock not currently available or drivers but they don't and never will want to unless it is forced upon them to do it like the original increases in frequency from 3 trains a day back in 2004.
Talking about facts and hyperbole, while also claiming, with absolute certainty, that the real aim of Irish Rail is to "kill off services to wexford altogether".
Christ Almighty!!
Very simple fix to the toilet issue. They can add a sentence to the "this will be the final stop" announcement.... "If you need to take a leak, do it now."
God forbid people couldn't learn to use the toilet on the first 1.5hr part of the journey.
the increase to 20 minutes needs infrastructure works between Bray and Greystones to allow trains to pass going in opposite directions. Originally the plan was to double the line between Greystones and Bray Head but it's now rumoured they'll only be doubling a short section just before the tunnels.
Currently there's a 30 minute frequency but there's an extra slot in each direction each hour available for Commuter/Intercity trains as 2 trains can use the line in the same direction on after the other provided they're with 10 or 15 minutes of each other
e.g.
12:00: Dart Bray→Greystones
12:15: Intercity Bray→Greystones
12:30 Dart Greystones→Bray
IDK if they're planning a higher frequency from Bray, but from Dun Laoghaire seems possible if they run some of the new Drogheda darts to there. There was a document with suggested service patterns in it released early in the Dart+ process but I can't find a copy.
