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Deposit return scheme (recycling)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭esker72


    First visit to the machines today. Had 7 empty 2l bottles. Working well enough until the third bottle got jammed and the machine just came up with an error message on screen and no way of getting receipt. Moved to the machine beside it which took the other four and issued voucher for a euro so managed to get just over half my deposits back. That probably leaves me in the "just chuck them in the recycle bin and save the hassle" camp but might give it another try to see if it improves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    i'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you, its an absolute nightmare when stuff like this happens. But looking to learn from your experiance i must ask you, was this a LIDL or SUPERVALU machine by any chance?

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭esker72


    Lidl machine. It's not a major issue as I'm not a big user so the sums involved aren't really ever going to be significant. I'd always try and go along with these schemes if there's an environmental reason but this one just seems so badly thought out, especially when reverting to my old way of popping it in the recycle bin seems just as good if not better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,757 ✭✭✭✭elperello



    The local councillors have no say about Re-turn but if you complain about it to them they'll most likely agree with you in the hope of getting your vote.

    As for the trollies all lined up for the next customer.

    Where do you think you'd find them if there was no deposit ?

    All over the car park is where.

    Deposits influence people's behaviour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,799 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Well then I have no idea what is making up for the extra single use plastic then.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    As far as i know, yes. Re-Turn being backed by irish law essentially forced the machines onto businesses. The only businesses that were not bullied into buying an RVM were those that have been granted exemptions due to space constraints.

    although one could imagine that return may have hired some cheaper alternative machine manufacturer to do the work of providing the machines and then just slapped their name branding all over it.

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭SteM


    I don't think the machines are centrally provided by re-turn.





  • I worked in the libraries. Each item has a unique identifier, such that every single material item (physical books, maps etc) in circulation in all public libraries has an id not shared by any other. ISBN is used as a basis for published books with an add-on unique id number which together make the unique identifier for each book. If items don’t come with ISBN unique numbers of equivalent string length were generated and applied to each item. There have been many changes since my day, of course. RFID is coded for each material item unique identifier.

    That’s doable and essential for libraries, but he’ll, it would not be worth it for Re-Turn, but might be the only way to patch up this awful farce of a situation. I haven’t a clue how it’s all done in other countries, has anyone a good detailed explanation without my having to bother googling as I’m too lazy? (Too lazy to to partake in are-Turn scheme)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    i would disagree, deposits only affect some poor peoples behavior or people who are on a budget or anyone penny pinching. Posh people or super rich never seem to care or bother with returning trolleys or recycleable container wise. (This would also explain why its rare to find trolleys with money left in them at the likes of lidl and aldi, but not at tesco)

    Also supermarkets have people dedicated (paid) to bring back trollies to ensure they're not spread all over the parking lot. They also have a special key and they also get to keep any of the deposit money they find in trolleys.

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,799 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    When I was working for Dunnes, 25-ish years ago, there was one guy who was always collecting the trollies. Rain, hail or snow, he was on trollies. One day he called in sick and I got selected to do trollies, and I discovered why he always opted to do trollies. I earned 18 euros that day from unclaimed trolley euros. Considering I was on about 5.60 an hour at the time that was some "bonus"! Equivalent to 3 hours overtime. I'd imagine on days it was lashing the bonus was even greater.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    yes there appears to be a pattern, i recently pointed out one thing about what i can only describe as "bicycle chain" machines, being the ones that tend to traffic jam and then become out of service frequently as a result. And seem to have a much longer conveyor belt that is more ridgit and isnt as smooth as others. Which is why i asked a person if they had experianced their problem with a lidl or supervalu machine in an above post.

    There's also a few other patterns i mentioned a while back on this thread, such as some machines spitting out different paper, some having shorter "time up" timers, and even some machines refusing to accept the small size containers that are part of the scheme (such as the small fruit shoot and tropicanna bottles). a blatant one is the low level of shape recognition in some which are being exploited by people putting barcodes on toilet roll paper inserts however i'm still unsure if this is actually true or just a satire post someone had posted as not all machines accept these as tall cans lol.

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.





  • It seems each retail group is sourcing machines to a spec. Most of them have also put in a significant branding effort, e.g. the SuperValu machines are fully branded up and they seemed to have no issue taking the refund vouchers on their self-checkouts in the store I tried it in. They just scanned in like any other voucher.





  • That's what concerns me. Nobody (myself included) seems to know why and I see scant effort from the government to figure out why we're such a massive outlier on that.

    We should be reducing packaging at source much more aggressively than we are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 240 ✭✭Woodcutting


    An old alcoholic, now dead, spent his last few months patrolling the local Dunnes car park. He would approach people and offer to return the trolley for the euro towards booze.





  • Somebody on the Liveline thread did an experiment after a dare with a toilet roll core. Callers to the show were complaining about issues with the Re-Turn system. Instead of listening to the show and participating on the thread he got working on the experiment and the “requirement” was to photo the item going into the machine and going down the chute, and the voucher printed out. It worked in his case. I can’t remember which shop it was though.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    someone once did this to me in a dunnes car park, they actually demanded my trolley, needless to say i trolled them by allowing them to have it as i was parked far away from the return bay. The troll is when they attempted to return it and realized it was an old irish 2 pence coin instead of a 2 euro in the trolley, by which time i had been long gone lmao

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 240 ✭✭Woodcutting


    Thought you had to rinse them. In that case dribble of coke in your sleeves rather than water





  • I live in an apartment block on what would be broadly termed an “upscale” estate of apartments and houses. I own my gaff but I see that rental prices are eye-watering, so that people living here would in general be well-educated and in very good jobs. However I am continuously appalled by the horrendous treatment of the nuns area by residents. Owners invariably are good about it, but renters through everything in any non that comes to mind and there’s often an absolutely unholy mess of nappies etc in recycling bins, and as regards cardboard packing from Amazon deliveries, they don’t bother to flatten them down as is required.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,851 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    But it's easy drop a trolly back. There's no friction there....plus you get actual cash back. It's a much simpler system.


    It's difficult to take the trolly home with you.....

    It's the same principle in that launching rockets and launching airplanes are pretty much the same principle.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,851 ✭✭✭✭kippy




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    yes this is the post i'm referring to, i still don't know to this day if it was real, or a practical joke/satire. i seen 2 people trying to attempt the same thing with toilet roll cores in real life and failing.

    it was a very funny post and i loved it, regardless of whether its real or not. (even showed it to alot of people and got quite a laugh from it)

    i found a couple of nit-picking faults with the pictures though and the machine that it was used in. The conclusion i had came to was that it was an old broken out of service machine as the belt on it was covered in dust (as seen in the picture) and i'm unsure of how fast camera phones these days can take pictures. i imagine it was a broken machine and a real can was redeemed in a different machine next to it, and that receipt was shown so it looked like the whole thing worked.

    However IF that post was real, then it comes down to really bad shape recognition in that machine. i've seen a person put a dog food tin in the machine and it being accepted.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Hah.. hah.. it's free money for Minister Smyth and his quango buddies!! Suckers paying out all those deposits, money for old rope.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,757 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Come back to earth, nothing to do with flying machines 🙂

    We are talking about how consumers react to deposits.

    If you don't like the trolley analogy what about barbecue gas.

    Do you bring the empty back or pay a new deposit when you need a full one ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Don't be ridiculous - how many shopping trollies do you fit in your car? You're comparing completely different things used in completely different ways.

    You just wait till the public get hold of local councillors, hopeful councillors and all their canvassers. Burn their ears and punish those who brought in this scheme. I'm long enough in the tooth to remember the previous time the Greens got in and my mild mannered mother in law fuming at the banning of light bulbs, closure of bedsits and so on. It's these sort of policies that annoy the public and they stay annoyed for quite a while.





  • Yes, that’s true, we use mineral water a lot less than most European countries. Some countries like Italy have a love of sparking mineral water (like I do) and that doesn’t come out of the tap. Some areas, like the south of Spain, need a relatively larger amount of chlorine to make water safe to consume unboiled. Seville region takes its water supply from the Guadalquiver river, sheep can be seen grazing on the banks near Córdoba. The water tastes & smells horrible, even brushing your teeth would bleach them. I used to have Ulcerative Colitis and any time I consumed heavily chlorinated water in these parts it altered my gut flora (killed all the good flora) so much I would get an immense flare-up of internal bleeding etc. A colleague of mine with same condition ended up in hospital from consuming heavily chlorinated tap water. So it’s understandable that in this day some people in certain areas rely on mineral water.

    In the not-too-distant past (when I was in my teens & twenties and in some parts much much later) you simply could not drink the tap water in many European countries. I’ll sum it up nicely here: brought my mother to Gran Canaria about 1998, bottled water essential then,

    I visited Czechia/Slovakia in 1996, big warnings that tap water had heavy faecal contamination. Do not drink, do not even accept juice for breakfast unless you were in need of a strong laxative as they had a habit of adding contaminated tap water. Was warned about tap water in Poland, not alone faecal contamination but poisonous metals too. Had been to Russia and Ukraine in 1979, turned just 18 and mildly foolish, drank the water and that triggered off my lifelong colitis, although that would have happened anyway. But everyone who consumed any amount of that water suffered from giardiasis “pea soup” gastroenteritis for weeks after.

    Thankfully pretty much every European country has safe water now, and in many instances other countries have a lot less boil notices than parts of rural Ireland.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on




  • It was fun! I still hold someone up to that challenge though!!! Next time clean off the dust! I want to see REAL hacking the machines! Maybe a full blown video!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,489 ✭✭✭CH3OH


    Just to clarify.. as it was me who did the "experiment"

    The cardboard was from a Coke box.

    It was the exact dimensions and weight of a coke can. 15 g... with a printed barcode label.

    The RVM had no problem accepting.



    P.s .. I didn't cash in the 15 cents and don't intent to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,757 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    You who is threatening to throw away money calling me ridiculous !

    Fact is most people react to deposits by doing their best to get them back.

    Have fun ranting at candidates but it won't change anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭Daith


    Man, I miss just putting cans into a recycling bin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭jj880


    Councillors have no power over anything important. The big stuff is handled by council executive. Councillors have a list of goodies like pot holes and benches. This is what they use to get re-elected. If they started crying about anything that hits the council in the pocket in any meaningful way (e.g. properly tackling litter due to Re-Turn turning out to be a balls) theyd get their lists shoved up their hoops and its bye bye votes. Not to mention no more handy committee appointments for extra cash.

    Im not sure what the most effective protest of Re-Turn is. I dont mind losing deposits in the short term if it helps force a rethink of this bollix.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    give that 15 cent deposit voucher to me, i will hold onto it for safe keeping...... by giving it to a staff member to place in the till.

    how come other machines don't accept them? it musta been a really bad machine, or bad shape recognition if true.

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    losing deposits actually funds them more. they get 15c per deposit on can and bottle, and 25 cent per deposit on larger bottles. When you reclaim a deposit they have to give it back to the store that gave it back to you. scrap recycling rates for bottles is close to nothing, and cans are like around 2 cent. i'd rather them gain nothing to 2 cent for the raw material, rather than 15-25 cent for the deposit.

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 472 ✭✭angela1711


    Point is that if enough people don’t return their bottles the government will see that it doesn’t work?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 472 ✭✭angela1711


    The money thrown away is so minimal that I’ve just incorporated it into my expenses, definitely nowhere near enough to make me keep a dozen of bottles, and bring them back for what? 2 or 3 euro refund? I don’t have the space to keep uncrushed bottles, and definitely don’t have the time to bring them back to the shop. Let’s remember that we are now asked to keep plastic bottles/cans as well as glass bottles/jars and bring them all back to separate places. This is while paying over 40e a month for waste/recycling collection.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,505 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    No no no

    The green thing is to have us all now making added journeys to carry our bottles around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,651 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    What is the machine reading, the number on the barcode, or the barcode itself .?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    But carbon such n such. Hike carbon taxes to deter people recycling. Briandead muppets oh no wait its clever ponzi scheme. Educate our young to think this is normal and pay more to exist. It's actually genius



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,534 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    Got some shopping done today and in my order included

    24 x 500ml water bottles but i ordered 12 1ltr and now charged a deposit of 3.60

    Coke zero 8 pack now have a 15c deposit lower down on the can but not charged so need to put aside

    Pepsi Max 750 charged a a 25c deposit and has the Logo on the wrapper i missed earlier .

    To be washed and put aside with till receipts for memory.

    Just need to get a basket to store these returns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,897 ✭✭✭beachhead


    Same happened near Lidl stores when they brought in their recycling scheme in 20?? Fresh cans/plastic bottles disappeared from roads



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    used it yesterday for first time, it worked. Few bottles didn’t accept but they didn’t have the visual icon on them


    young fellow was putting one in and threw it right in so never registered but that was user error

    For all the posts and TikTok videos about it I was expecting some mad complex system and it’s easy….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    In regards to the post of higher litter, if people are willing to throw their own money away then so be it

    The local scout group in area do clean up etc so if they are making a few quid at the same time all the better

    The person who posted about the 7k walk, bring a bag next time and you will make a fortune 👍



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,522 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    I do weekly litter picks around here and none of the plastic bottles or cans could be returned for a deposit, as they're invariably crushed by traffic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭JayRoc


    I know I'm a little late to the party here but on my 5th attempt I was finally able to recycle a can yesterday (previous attempts had drs barcodes not recognised/machines out of order).


    I distinctly recall being told unequivocally that the vouchers will be as good as cash and do NOT have to be spent in the store whose machines you used. Not the case.

    Were they telling porkies or what?

    Post edited by JayRoc on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,522 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    I distinctly recall them saying you had to use the vouchers at the store where you use the machine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,757 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    You are correct.

    That's been the policy since the start.

    You either use the voucher against a purchase in the shop where you use the RVM or cash it and spend it where you like.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭JayRoc


    How do you mean, "cash it"? So you can use the voucher elsewhere?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,757 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    You can cash it in the shop where you use the RVM.

    You can't use the voucher elsewhere but obviously you can use the cash.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    you go to a shop, you put in the bottles, you get a voucher you can use in the shop

    That is what I seen everywhere. Otherwise why would the shop pay for the electricity etc on the unit



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    Sadly thats not the case, in a situation like this they may try harder and maybe even increase the cost of deposits. or may not do anything.

    it's a percentage of returned numbers game, not number of containers game. Lets say for example only 1 shop sells a bottle and everyone else refuses to buy anything re-turn related due to boycotting the scheme. And that 1 person who purchased the bottle returns the bottle, then that = 100% recycling rate. if people think they can protest by still buying containers and refusing to use the RVM machines to get their deposits back, then they're only funding/supporting the scheme even more than they would if they returned the item and got their deposit back. Because the unreturned deposit goes straight into the schemes pocket. a tin can is worth 2 cent or less to the re-turn company, but for you it gives 15 cent back, if you don't return the can, re-turn the company keep that 15 cent.

    i'm unsure, i think the barcode itself if you mean the RVM machine. to test this for you this morning i went to a local corner shop and put in a bottle to the RVM after scratching and drawing over alot of the barcode. unfortunately the machine kept rejecting the bottle. But i didnt let the bottle go to waste, i put the damaged lable in the bin and took the label off of a same bottle drink i found in the street (crushed but still intact with barcode area undamged) put that in the machine and got my 15 cent deposit back.

    i think the barcode functions on the machine as a big "HEY! I'M OVER HERE!!" to the censors in the machine, then the machine glances slightly downwards or around the barcode in an attempt to look for numbers.

    Although someone had posted here just over a week ago that the barcode are somehow incorporated into the barcode itself, perhaps the bigger the black line is = the bigger the number it represents? one or 2 aldi items have barcodes but with no numbers at all but can still be read by their checkout machine. the tall red cherry lips drink or sweet lips cherry soda whatever its called

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    by "cash it" we mean, instead of spending the voucher in the shop, ask to swap the voucher for cash, they will give you money which you can then spend in any store you like, or save it, or give it to me :D

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



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