Deposit return scheme (recycling)

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900136#Comment_121900136

That would make sense but I was made fun of on here for suggesting a similar scheme by the few schills for the scheme active on boards I suspect.

bog master

Thinking as its a bank holiday weekend, thousands arriving to Ireland to airports and leaving Ireland-the situation with the deposit scheme?

And also, the large numbers arriving to Irish holiday destinations, renting a house. going into town, bottles/cans of minerals and beer being bought, will they recoup their deposit on their way home on the Monday?

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900198#Comment_121900198

That's the story, they can be manually typed

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901746#Comment_121901746

yeah, alot of people are with you on this. if they put the barcodes at the base bottom of the can then we could crush and still get deposits back. And damaged cans would no longer be a problem in reclaiming our deposits. Would even make storage easier and also would ensure that more cans get recycles, thus helping reaching our target goals of 90% much quicker.

At times it feels like the system is set up to fail. Re-turn makes more money from people not getting their deposits back. it would explain the hoops people have to jump through just to get their own money back, but at the same time its madness. Would be much nicer if it was government funded or something, where people get rewarded for their efforts, instead of being expected to do free work and help reach target recycling goals getting nothing in return but their own money. Breaking even via our deposit should'nt be a reward. The reward should come from whoevers pocket wants us to reach the target goals. whole scheme is manipulative and based on a punishment based incentive instead of rewarding people for their help its bullying/extorting them for help. And holding their deposits as ransom if they do not comply.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901453#Comment_121901453

I would imagine its down to water quality. There are communities up and down the country on boil water notices. Meaning they either have to boil water before using, or buy bottled water. Up until the recent past, communication of boil water notices have been ridiculously bad, so I know some people who just buy drinking water all the time.

If you or someone in your house suffers from ill health, buying a few litres of water in Aldi/Lidl every week is a very small price to pay for the peace of mind, that poor water quality is not going to cause diarhoea or vomitting.

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121899010#Comment_121899010

You're right apology I forgot that. But you do have to queue whereas you can use the voucher in the shop you get at the self service. If it scans.

Again making things more difficult for elderly disabled etc

RetroEncabulator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901824#Comment_121901824

We use significantly less bottled water than most EU countries - about half the EU average, so it's definitely not that.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901779#Comment_121901779

yeah i reckon it either said that, or FAIL. it could also be possible that the codes are not unique and that the reason why we are required to use it in the same store we got the deposit voucher from, could be because it may work in other stores or screw with their system. imagine if re-turn were re-imbursing numerous stores with the same deposit receipt and number, would be chaos. Re-turn would become bankrupt.

Seriously though there's alot of things in this scheme that still don't make sense or that people can't get their head around. i cant get my head around how a person is able to use a toilet roll insert and get paid, i mean i understand it but i don't understand why the lack of security in the machine. It's like how some stores cheap out on certain aspects of security, it appears re-turn cheaped out on the RVM's in some regard. We simply can't duplicate the success of other countries running their own deposit schemes, when ireland has cheapened out on theirs. Machines are constantly down in some areas. Some other counteries with the scheme even have machines that take multiple depositable items at a time, we only get a 1 item at a time, machine.

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901803#Comment_121901803

Seem to have gone out of their way to make it difficult.

Edit typo

esker72

First visit to the machines today. Had 7 empty 2l bottles. Working well enough until the third bottle got jammed and the machine just came up with an error message on screen and no way of getting receipt. Moved to the machine beside it which took the other four and issued voucher for a euro so managed to get just over half my deposits back. That probably leaves me in the "just chuck them in the recycle bin and save the hassle" camp but might give it another try to see if it improves.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901881#Comment_121901881

i'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you, its an absolute nightmare when stuff like this happens. But looking to learn from your experiance i must ask you, was this a LIDL or SUPERVALU machine by any chance?

esker72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901902#Comment_121901902

Lidl machine. It's not a major issue as I'm not a big user so the sums involved aren't really ever going to be significant. I'd always try and go along with these schemes if there's an environmental reason but this one just seems so badly thought out, especially when reverting to my old way of popping it in the recycle bin seems just as good if not better.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901692#Comment_121901692

The local councillors have no say about Re-turn but if you complain about it to them they'll most likely agree with you in the hope of getting your vote.

As for the trollies all lined up for the next customer.

Where do you think you'd find them if there was no deposit ?

All over the car park is where.

Deposits influence people's behaviour.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901856#Comment_121901856

Well then I have no idea what is making up for the extra single use plastic then.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901951#Comment_121901951

As far as i know, yes. Re-Turn being backed by irish law essentially forced the machines onto businesses. The only businesses that were not bullied into buying an RVM were those that have been granted exemptions due to space constraints.

although one could imagine that return may have hired some cheaper alternative machine manufacturer to do the work of providing the machines and then just slapped their name branding all over it.

SteM

I don't think the machines are centrally provided by re-turn.

I worked in the libraries. Each item has a unique identifier, such that every single material item (physical books, maps etc) in circulation in all public libraries has an id not shared by any other. ISBN is used as a basis for published books with an add-on unique id number which together make the unique identifier for each book. If items don’t come with ISBN unique numbers of equivalent string length were generated and applied to each item. There have been many changes since my day, of course. RFID is coded for each material item unique identifier.

That’s doable and essential for libraries, but he’ll, it would not be worth it for Re-Turn, but might be the only way to patch up this awful farce of a situation. I haven’t a clue how it’s all done in other countries, has anyone a good detailed explanation without my having to bother googling as I’m too lazy? (Too lazy to to partake in are-Turn scheme)

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901986#Comment_121901986

i would disagree, deposits only affect some poor peoples behavior or people who are on a budget or anyone penny pinching. Posh people or super rich never seem to care or bother with returning trolleys or recycleable container wise. (This would also explain why its rare to find trolleys with money left in them at the likes of lidl and aldi, but not at tesco)

Also supermarkets have people dedicated (paid) to bring back trollies to ensure they're not spread all over the parking lot. They also have a special key and they also get to keep any of the deposit money they find in trolleys.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902197#Comment_121902197

When I was working for Dunnes, 25-ish years ago, there was one guy who was always collecting the trollies. Rain, hail or snow, he was on trollies. One day he called in sick and I got selected to do trollies, and I discovered why he always opted to do trollies. I earned 18 euros that day from unclaimed trolley euros. Considering I was on about 5.60 an hour at the time that was some "bonus"! Equivalent to 3 hours overtime. I'd imagine on days it was lashing the bonus was even greater.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902196#Comment_121902196

yes there appears to be a pattern, i recently pointed out one thing about what i can only describe as "bicycle chain" machines, being the ones that tend to traffic jam and then become out of service frequently as a result. And seem to have a much longer conveyor belt that is more ridgit and isnt as smooth as others. Which is why i asked a person if they had experianced their problem with a lidl or supervalu machine in an above post.

There's also a few other patterns i mentioned a while back on this thread, such as some machines spitting out different paper, some having shorter "time up" timers, and even some machines refusing to accept the small size containers that are part of the scheme (such as the small fruit shoot and tropicanna bottles). a blatant one is the low level of shape recognition in some which are being exploited by people putting barcodes on toilet roll paper inserts however i'm still unsure if this is actually true or just a satire post someone had posted as not all machines accept these as tall cans lol.

RetroEncabulator

It seems each retail group is sourcing machines to a spec. Most of them have also put in a significant branding effort, e.g. the SuperValu machines are fully branded up and they seemed to have no issue taking the refund vouchers on their self-checkouts in the store I tried it in. They just scanned in like any other voucher.

RetroEncabulator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902031#Comment_121902031

That's what concerns me. Nobody (myself included) seems to know why and I see scant effort from the government to figure out why we're such a massive outlier on that.

We should be reducing packaging at source much more aggressively than we are.

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902197#Comment_121902197

An old alcoholic, now dead, spent his last few months patrolling the local Dunnes car park. He would approach people and offer to return the trolley for the euro towards booze.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902312#Comment_121902312

Somebody on the Liveline thread did an experiment after a dare with a toilet roll core. Callers to the show were complaining about issues with the Re-Turn system. Instead of listening to the show and participating on the thread he got working on the experiment and the “requirement” was to photo the item going into the machine and going down the chute, and the voucher printed out. It worked in his case. I can’t remember which shop it was though.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902554#Comment_121902554

someone once did this to me in a dunnes car park, they actually demanded my trolley, needless to say i trolled them by allowing them to have it as i was parked far away from the return bay. The troll is when they attempted to return it and realized it was an old irish 2 pence coin instead of a 2 euro in the trolley, by which time i had been long gone lmao

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900401#Comment_121900401

Thought you had to rinse them. In that case dribble of coke in your sleeves rather than water

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901484#Comment_121901484

I live in an apartment block on what would be broadly termed an “upscale” estate of apartments and houses. I own my gaff but I see that rental prices are eye-watering, so that people living here would in general be well-educated and in very good jobs. However I am continuously appalled by the horrendous treatment of the nuns area by residents. Owners invariably are good about it, but renters through everything in any non that comes to mind and there’s often an absolutely unholy mess of nappies etc in recycling bins, and as regards cardboard packing from Amazon deliveries, they don’t bother to flatten them down as is required.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901620#Comment_121901620

But it's easy drop a trolly back. There's no friction there....plus you get actual cash back. It's a much simpler system.

It's difficult to take the trolly home with you.....

It's the same principle in that launching rockets and launching airplanes are pretty much the same principle.....

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902031#Comment_121902031

How do they work out the numbers I wonder?

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902574#Comment_121902574

yes this is the post i'm referring to, i still don't know to this day if it was real, or a practical joke/satire. i seen 2 people trying to attempt the same thing with toilet roll cores in real life and failing.

it was a very funny post and i loved it, regardless of whether its real or not. (even showed it to alot of people and got quite a laugh from it)

i found a couple of nit-picking faults with the pictures though and the machine that it was used in. The conclusion i had came to was that it was an old broken out of service machine as the belt on it was covered in dust (as seen in the picture) and i'm unsure of how fast camera phones these days can take pictures. i imagine it was a broken machine and a real can was redeemed in a different machine next to it, and that receipt was shown so it looked like the whole thing worked.

However IF that post was real, then it comes down to really bad shape recognition in that machine. i've seen a person put a dog food tin in the machine and it being accepted.