Deposit return scheme (recycling)

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Litter, Beer cans, Drinks bottles - Would you support a returnable charge?.

Gregsor

Here we go again another scheme and the government had to enhance a simple little procedure that was working perfect until shops had decided to end their trials and not show signs of opening full operation on these reverse vending machines.

Couldn't just leave it as any plastic bottle/can it has to get a barcode now and the likely hood the plastics we use will increase with the new term added the customer pays a deposit.

I'm buggered as i've been stowing away 8 months of bottles waiting for the standard scheme to have re started now they are worthless for the new rollout as no special barcode.

They couldn't just leave things the way they were and planned.

https://re-turn.ie/

Vic_08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172197#Comment_121172197

So basically you have hoarded garbage like a nutter in the hopes of getting some free money out of it and your grand plan has now been crushed.

And no, you aren't getting a fee for recycling this 13 year old thread either.

AmpMan

Are they going to have a different barcode/QR on each bottle or could you just print out your own stickers ?

Gregsor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172243#Comment_121172243

Great pun in there Vic08 well done.

Eh no not really i tried to get back some of the money from the increase in everything across the line as of the start of the year and thought it was a nice thing to do and to get my kid to help and see the process and what you can get back if you do a little over a long time it actually pays off.

There was 2 schemes introduced close to me and it was worth doing at the time too as originally it was a 10c per bottle return but was clawed back in recent months with one stopping and the other reduced it's refund by half to 5c.

I was patiently waiting for a broader roll out of the system and hoping for the 10c to be reintroduced at a closer stage.

Instead of going with a simple proven system the govt have gone and added more to it and added what seems to be a new charge/deposit system for the new machines.

Thanks for your contribution though to the thread,i never noticed the original date and was actually surprised that this scheme was coming round back then but not surprised it never got a full go ahead,typical story.

Gregsor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172262#Comment_121172262

i believe the manufacturers will all have to add a code for you to scan as it enters to refund you the extra charge.

AmpMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191607#Comment_121191607

I was asking if each bottle will have a unique code ?

Hardly feasible to do that.

taxAHcruel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192083#Comment_121192083

Been traveling over and back to Germany a bit recently due to a partner having a work contract there so I visit with the kids. They have the deposit system there and they just use the standard barcode that is on the bottle. You get either 8c 15c or 25c depending on the bottle or can type as you put it in the machine. After you put all your bottles in you get a receipt which you take to the checkout to get your money.

The machines are quite good. They can read the barcode from pretty much any direction so you do not have to take much care on how you put the bottle into the machine. Depending on the type you put in the machine then shuttles it in the right direction. Certain types of plastic bottle are crushed inside the machine for later recycling of the materials. Other types are funneled into storage because they are reused as is.

Almost never see discarded bottles or cans lying on the street. They are quickly hoovered up by kids or homeless people who bring them back for the money. Even sitting outside a music festival queuing to get in - discarded bottles were instantly cleared up by a few homeless types who had shown up with empty shopping trolleys.

Not sure if that answers your question or the reason behind the question. But the system seems to work from my perspective. But I am sure there are some issues not apparent to me as a tourist.

whisky_galore

Those systems need a level of organisation that would be beyond us here.

Juran

How about installing more rubbish bins in public areas ? Yes, it costs money to maintain and empty them routinely, but isnt it tax money well spent. Or get people who have to do community service to.empty and clean them.

Similar to stop fly tipping, make local recycle & dump facilities free to use.

These initatives should be part of the budget as they impact everyones local environment and the country should be proud to be clean.

Ever come back from.holidays and your memory of the place is rubbish discarded every where ? You're in no hurry to go back there, right ?

listermint

I'd agree entirely with this scheme if the 15 cents or whatever came out of the sugar or alcohol levies. I.e no additional price. Take it out of the existing tax costs of these items.

That's a fairer system. Helps with environmental and litter costs.

taxAHcruel

^ In Germany it is not exactly an "extra cost" though because the consumer is getting it back in their pocket later. It is added on at the point of sale but you get it back. So if your coke is costing 1 euro - you pay 1 euro 25 - and then you get the 25 cent back when you return the bottle. It's a deposit not a cost therefore.

It's actually quite a nice feeling to bring back a load of bottles to the machine before I leave Germany to return to Ireland and I get a fiver in my pocket to walk out with.

OP, please don’t post in threads that are over a decade old, just start a new one.

If you have a better title for this thread just let me know I’ll update, otherwise as you were.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192143#Comment_121192143

There's a special symbol on the bottle and you can only recycle those bottles. So if I got a bottle of coke from Ireland I don't think it would work here in germany.

I know some beer bottles have it here and some don't. The ones that don't are ones made abroad.

I do order a case of beer and two cases of coke zero every few months. And when I get the new delivery, the old one is taken away and I get a refund on the bottles.

the_amazing_raisin

The upcoming scheme is pretty dumb IMO. It's a great example of a good idea ruined by poor execution

If you look at the list of acceptable materials, it's basically water and soft drinks bottles and cans

No dairy products allowed, or other plastics

So they're expecting consumers to keep a very small subset of their waste and bring it back for a tiny return

And if you lose the lid or damage the bottle by accident it's worthless

Yeah I don't see this scheme getting a lot of uptake

If they'd expanded it to all plastic, metal and glass containers then it would be much more popular IMO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192595#Comment_121192595

You don’t need a lid and I’d be curious what “damaged” means. Like flattened or crushed is no good? Doesn’t really make any sense to me.

AmpMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192143#Comment_121192143

The reason I ask is that you could in theory print out the 10c barcodes and stick them on any bottle.

Poster above has been collecting bottles that wont be eligible because they done have a "special" sticker.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192627#Comment_121192627

Okay I was wrong about the lids, fair point 👍

Here's the scheme webpage with some details

https://re-turn.ie/

It just says undamaged, so I presume that also includes uncrushed

Cienciano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192746#Comment_121192746

That says it's "convenient for everyone". Well, that's a lie. I used to use a green bin outside my house, now I have to pay 25 cent extra for everything and bring it to a recycling centre. I can't even crush them first.

thebiglad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192143#Comment_121192143

I have seen this in Germany too with the 'homeless' early in the mornings public bins are literally poured on the street as they dig for discarded bottles that they can return. Same is going to happen here, good money to be made in tourist areas where they cannot be bothered to return their own bottles.

Someone then has to be employed to undertake the additional street cleaning, but in the interim it looks awful to see people like seagulls turning over the bins and until they are cleaned, its an eyesore.

ednwireland

just another green tax.100% of my plastic bottles goes into my green bin. already paying to get rid of it.

it's all the film that no-one knows what to do with.

there's a wall outside our supervalu full of plastic bottles where schoolkids sit and eat lunch. there's a bin at the supermarket entrance !

thebiglad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285070#Comment_121285070

That'll be a moneymaker for someone - just wait for the turf war...

taxAHcruel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285058#Comment_121285058

"Additional" street cleaning is relative I guess given there is pretty much no bottles (plastic or glass) or cans on the streets anywhere. I was just walking through clontarf this weekend as it happens in Dublin and I absolutely can not say the same. There was Fanta cans and Coke bottles all over the place.

I have never seen a single bin poured all over the place by people looking for bottles. In fact most bins are split into Paper Plastic and other. So they generally do not have to dig at all. The homeless I have seen just walk up - peer in - and move on. But I am only a (recently very regular) visitor. So I messaged a guy I know living there 15 year and he says exactly the same. But Germany is massive. The areas I and he are in (Hessen and Bavaria) may be different to others (Berlin and the east etc) in how on top of this they are.

They have actually taken in a lot of places to attaching Bottle Holders to things like Pedestrian lights. So as you are crossing a road you just slot your bottle into an empty slot for someone else to pick up and return to the deposit machines. So that is quite a nice idea. I put a bottle in one - walked into TK Maxx - came out 20 minutes later and it was already gone.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285070#Comment_121285070

It's not a tax. Its a deposit. You get the money back. All of it. A tax implies your money is being taken off you and goes elsewhere. The money we pay for plastic bags for example could be viewed as a "green tax".

Cienciano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285070#Comment_121285070

Well, you're now being punished for doing the right thing for years. As usual, the green option is all stick and no carrot. Remember to keep your cans uncrushed and after you deposit you recycling, go into the shop and queue up to get your money back.

18 330ml cans will get you €2.70 back. You'll need to store this in in your house or apartment somewhere too. Another recycling bin. God help us

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285159#Comment_121285159

I've been in NRW now for two years and I've never seen them empty a bin. I just see them peer in and pull stuff out.

I've noticed in parks here during the summer people don't even put bottles into the bin. they just line them up next to the bin so it's easier for homeless people to get them.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285162#Comment_121285162

You don't need another recycling bin. Just put them back into the box. Here you can just hand over the full box.

I'm wondering in Ireland if there will the option to return as part of a delivery. I have beer and coke zero delivered here in Germany. Whenever I get a delivery they take away the old ones too.

Cienciano

Ok, you need a recycling "box". Along with your green bin, brown bin, normal bin and glass bin. Basically, you need to separate the plastic bottles and cans in order to get the money back. At a time of high inflation

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286153#Comment_121286153

You're complaining that you get money back at a time of high inflation?

Cienciano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286299#Comment_121286299

You pay an extra 25 cent and you get that back. 330ml cans are up 15cent, 500ml bottles are up 25cent. You lose it if you use your green bin

odyssey06

Will be a tricky one for people who get deliveries from the supermarkets and otherwise don't go into the store.

I assume there is a size exemption so smaller outlets like fuel stations, corner shops, off licences aren't going to participate.

Cienciano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287300#Comment_121287300

Everywhere that sells bottles has to take them. They probably manually scan them rather than have an automated machine

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287519#Comment_121287519

Are you sure about that?

This talks of exemptions.

Retailers operating from shops and off-licences with a retail area of less than 250 sq. ms will be able to apply for a take-back exemption. This is to facilitate smaller retailers with limited retail and storage space.

https://www.drinksindustryireland.ie/re-turn-confirms-take-back-exemptions-for-plastic-bottles-and-containers/

Cienciano

Makes sense that there's some exemptions. Not sure how big 250sqm is, they mention stalls and vans. But the official site says "You can return your empty, undamaged drinks container, featuring the Re-turn logo, to any retailers that sells drinks in plastic and steel/aluminium cans." so smaller retailers are exempted. Wonder if the drink bottles are exempt from the extra tax if you buy them there? Think we know the answer

tampopo

I've also been saving cans for years. I've brought them all back, pretty much. I can only carry so many at a given time.

There's a Lidl that takes them for 10c. so, it's there I go. Pick them up off the street too, like a homeless person too. Easy money. The actual homeless will have them snapped up when the thing is introduced proper in the new year.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121422395#Comment_121422395

But if you pay a deposit then the scheme is sort of stupid. It’s not incentivising you for any reward they’re just charging you extra and giving it back if you return it.

If a can was €1 and you got 10c back for returning it you could argue you’ve paid 90c or made 10c.

This way the can is going to cost €1.10, so if you return you get the 10c back and therefore pay the normal price.

It’s stupid.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423396#Comment_121423396

There were some LIDLs trialling the scheme so it seems like you could bring bottles there and get 10c back without paying the 10c deposit. That's the only way I can see if you could have gained from it really.

There was €200,000 refunded in total.

https://businessplus.ie/news/lidl-recycled-bottles/

Varik

A few small bottles won't be bad but anything more than that is going to make this a pain.

What are the chances shops won't have some handy method (or the machine or it won't work) and you'll just have to line up to hand over them all at the till where it just get's left beside the checkout person until they can drop it round the back.

Seeing the machines vouchers will only work at the shop they're attached to, and probably they'll expire in no time at all.

How much fraud is this barcode uncrushed nonsense going to save them from.

Even the amount the house drinks won't cover the gate fee for the recycling centre, and other choice is either walking into shopping centre with bin bags or treat it like the great escape dropping of stuff constantly.

Potential-Monke

So now we're gonna be charged for not recyling bottles and cans at specific shops even if we already use the recycling bin at home... great country full of great ideas as usual... it'll help me get healthier at least as I will just not buy those drinks anymore.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425908#Comment_121425908

Im with you there. I currently recycle everything in green bin or bring to recycling centre so now I have to pay more to buy certain products fornthe privilege of storimg seperately and bringing to another location if I want a refund. Not easy being emv friendly

Ger Roe

This is more disconnected thinking from our 'experts', influenced more by potential commercial gain, than environmental management. The new buzz term is 'the circular economy'. Economise the issue rather than directly take measures to address it.

We already have issues with not having a national standard policy on waste recycling. Different bin colours and different items accepted in different ways, all over the country with major operational differences between private and council facilities.

It's an inefficient mess with mixed messages going out to the public. This is what we got when our overlords decided to turn a necessary public service, in to a commercial industry. No wonder the latest EPA report (out today) says we are failing miserably with our re-cycling targets. I don't think the new deposit return scheme will make a whole load of difference either.

We need to start from the top down - reduce the waste coming in to the country, instead of putting all the burden on the consumer to take it in gather it all up, and bring it to various places, all in support of an industry that we didn't want in the first place.

At the moment, I save all my plastic bottles up and squash them, until I literally have a car full to take to the council depot. From the new year, I will have to keep them intact, so that I can transport far less less (more frequent car journeys), to queue at a machine and individually push them through a hole, so I can recover the latest tax imposed. More trucks will then visit each machine to bring the bottles to a place that I could have gone to, in the first place.

What a joke - stop developing an industry and tackle the issue at source.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121422395#Comment_121422395

Most of the cans you see discarded on the streets are crushed. The new system won't accept damaged or crushed cans so there'd be little benefit for people picking them up off the street and bringing them back.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428299#Comment_121428299

You won't see many cans thrown around though. They are no longer worthless

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428318#Comment_121428318

We'll have to wait and see. There are kids that will throw whatever they have in their hands on the ground, even if there is a bin near. Kids like that won't care about carrying an empty can around to get 10c back. It'll go on the ground just like before.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428339#Comment_121428339

Not really, we've prior experience with this with the plastic bag levy. No idea what age you are, but I remember the amount of them thrown all over the place before the levy which changed virtually overnight. You'll still find the odd one, but not many

The same will be true in the DRS. Even more so for kids as its free pocket money. The same thing has played out in every location where DRS has been rolled out, Ireland will be no different

Padraig Mor

Am I correct in the following when the scheme starts:

1. No more collection of cans and plastic bottles from your household recycling. I'd imagine the chances of bills being reduced to compensate for this are zero.
2. Huge increase in cost of own brand drinks etc - 12 x 500ml water in Aldi is now €3.15, this will rise to almost €5 with the scheme.
3. Can't squash the containers so have to keep big bags of bottles/cans lying around the house.
4. Big bags of containers will be impracticable for many to bring to shop via public transport / walking / cycling thereby incentivising car travel.
5. You only get a voucher back for the shop you've brought the containers to.

What an unworkable counterproductive fiasco! Even the Greens in Scotland - who make our own shower look sane - have been shamed into dropping the Scottish version of the scheme despite it being one of their headline deliverables.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428377#Comment_121428377

I know all about the plastic bag levy, I was around for its introduction. Adults changed their habits overnight, I'm not talking about adults here. I know that 10c (edit sorry, it's 15c) means nothing to kids these days. Anyway we'll see, but this scheme won't stop kids from dumping cans on the street imo.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192143#Comment_121192143

Been traveling over and back to Germany a bit recently due to a partner having a work contract there

Where are the others? 😂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428389#Comment_121428389

Huge increase in cost of own brand drinks etc - 12 x 500ml water in Aldi is now €3.15, this will rise to almost €5 with the scheme.

Correct, which will be redeemed once you return the containers

Can't squash the containers so have to keep big bags of bottles/cans lying around the house.

Well you can, you just won't be able to scan the barcodes. Its a personal choice as to what you do.

Big bags of containers will be impracticable for many to bring to shop via public transport / walking / cycling thereby incentivising car travel.

I'm scratching my head at this one. Are you saying that full containers, plus all other shopping, are practical to bring by any mode except the car, but only the empty containers require a car??

You only get a voucher back for the shop you've brought the containers to.

No, you get a voucher back for containers with the correct barcode (which should be virtually all of them). The voucher can be exchanged for cash. You do not need to return a container back to the same store as the system is based on the barcodes. So long as the container has the Re-Turn logo, its barcode will allow for a refund regardless of the location you return to

NSAman

What is so difficult that Ireland screws up everything that should be easy?

here in the states I bring back cans to the retailer, they count them and give you back 5cents per can/plastic bottle etc.

its not fecking rocket science.

you bring them while shopping, all cans are accepted. The only requirement is that they are cleaned.

tampopo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428299#Comment_121428299

I didn't think I'd have to make it clear, but here goes. I pick up non-crushed cans on the street. For recycling. And bottles.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428389#Comment_121428389

Consumers may return containers to a retailer that takes them back over the counter (manual), or through the use of a a Reverse Vending Machine (RVM). If returning to an RVM, you must insert all Re-turn drinks containers as instructed and you will then be issued with a voucher which may be redeemed at the till. *It is important to note that vouchers issued from an RVM must be redeemed at the same retail outlet.

PET plastic drinks containers, steel and aluminum cans between 150ml and 3 litres that show the Re-turn logo are accepted. They will need to be empty, undamaged and the barcode needs to be clearly legible. Remember, all drink containers included in the scheme will feature the Re-turn logo.

Not all drinks containers are eligible for Deposit Return. No dairy products are included in the Scheme. Eg. Milk, yogurt drinks. These containers will  not have a Re-turn logo, but should still be recycled.

You will have the choice to receive your refund against a store-bought purchase or in cash.

So they still want you to use your green bin to recycle dairy product bottles. You can't squash them which seems ridiculous before you bring them back. If you bring them back to somewhere like Aldi you have to put them into the machine one by one and then take your voucher to the till get your money. Surely there's a smarter way of issuing a refund than this? It's such a poorly thought out scheme.