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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,184 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    Good old Fintan the liberal! (Small ‘l’)

    He has been the biggest cheerleader and supporter of right wing homophobic and sectarian unionism of them all and can’t even see it he’s so far up his own .......

    The latest ‘liberal’ manta is the ‘need’ to vaccinate Africa, ‘we’ must get Africans vaccinated! You see we’re white and know better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    So really it comes down to whether they are puppets or muppets?



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,731 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    The problem and in my opinion is that from the very start of this pandemic our leaders and NPHET got hung up on and are still hung up on case numbers and not really reading the big picture so to speak.

    Hospital admissions and ICU admissions have been fairly steady for the last couple of months but the people in charge are still using case numbers as a stick to beat us with.

    Now they want 5 year olds and upwards vaccinated which is absolutely ridiculous as I dont know anyone under 40 thats ended up in ICU.


    We can vaccinate every person in the country but we`ll still have cases in ICU - mainly the older cohorts and those with underlying conditions - vaccinating everyone isnt going to stop that. People are still going to catch covid but for the majority it doesnt even cause any symptoms.


    My 13 year old had to go for a PCR test this week. Rang the GP-He says go for a pcr. Told him it was her usual bout of tonsilitis that she gets every year but still insisted on a pcr and wouldnt even see her until she got the pcr. Got a negative and it turned out to be her usual bout of tonsilitis that she gets every year. Makes me wonder how many of the cases are cases caught by just gps insisting on PCR tests for other minor ailments. Most gps wont even have a consultation without a pcr test these days.


    NPHET need to stop looking at case numbers and try protect the vulnerable.

    Actually NPHET need a refresh with some new minds in there that might be less conservative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Well no as that isn't a scientifically sound position as you well know, but good to hear you want to donate more stuff together countries, vaccines aren't the top of their needs list and I guess it would be hypocritical of you now if you don't support other schemes.

    Everything with omicron is still to be proven (anecdotal evidence isn't evidence) and it is an absolute undeniable fact that if you encounter the virus you're always better off having the vaccine. Hopefully omicron is milder but we're likely waiting on a care home outbreak to prove if.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Had the same experience myself. I suffer from sinus and chest infections. Rang the Dr to see him and get the usual prescription. Wouldn't see me unless I had a negative pcr test but still gave me a prescription and charged me for it. Still went for the pcr test and was negative finally got in to see the Dr after 2 weeks. Got a battery of tests and x-rays to see if there is an underlying cause. Anyway the Dr asks did I have covid at any time said not that I know off and did I have symptoms said in the summer I had symptoms but thought it was hay fever took an anti histamine going to bed and was fine the next day. Now I am on another course of antibiotics and steroids another xray in a months time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭bloopy


    They were the most vicious of them all.

    Certainly opened my eyes on a few people.

    Their beliefs and principles are non existent as far as I can see. Never about others nor tolerance. Only self congratulation and control.

    This **** mess has been heaven for many of them. Some, I seriously wonder, don't seem to want it to end.

    The best example is the Herman cain award subreddit on Reddit. Promoted by at least one prolific poster in here in a few different threads. Filled with people so convinced of their own perfectness and virtue that they've descended into a sociopathic wallowing in the misery of others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    Yes, don’t know if it’s true or not but read that more people die from diarrhoea every day in Africa than die from covid. Not much interest in that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Oh there could be a whole other thread on this don't get me started. I find these woke folks are best avoided nothing but misery. Those virtue signallers with I got vacc'd to save everyone when you know they only got the vaccine so they could head out to the pub or restaurant but yeah if you asked them they will tell you how much of a hero they are to protect granny.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,495 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    I wonder is it starting to sink into Michael Martins slowpoke brain that the advisory group he relies upon have been wrong at every single stage of this pandemic.

    He has been basing his decisions and playing god with peoples lives, and its all based on advice and models from people who do not know what they are doing.

    I hope that keeps him awake at night, because it should. The shame is that even if he realises it now most of the damage has already been done.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    On the NPHET frontI agree with a post above. If they are going to keep it, it's needs freshening up.

    We could go out and hire the best virological experts in the world. The best human behaviouralists in the world. Thank the rest for their time and leave it up to the best in the business. Then we would know there are no hidden agendas. They have no long term skin in the game. They are not bound to the HSE or civil service politics. They can give true independent advice.

    We all know from Pre-Covid that Tony Holohan has a distain for our drinking culture. There is an internal bias there. He cannot be trusted to give true independent, non agenda driven advice.

    I think a lot of people get the impression that Covid passes for Gyms is not public health measure. It's directed at young fit people who feel they don't need the vaccine. They want to boost those vaccine stats. It is agenda driven. Particularly towards a lot of gym owners/personal trainers who have bee critical of restrictions and questioning why young and fit people would need the vaccine. This stuff appeared a lot in the Kinzen Reports.

    Public trust is everything in something like this. The likes of Romania and Bulgaria cannot get people vaccinated because there is no public trust in government.

    If there is another pandemic in 10-20 years time. Will there be the same level of trust that was given originally back in March 2020? Not a chance. And there won't be 94% take up of a vaccine when it was advertised to give you back your freedom.

    Trust is eroding.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Public health measures are part of the "woke" agenda now? Blo*dy hell, I thought they were in the "keep people from dying" agenda. Do you need a safe space to post that from? Even trumpy got vaccinated, is he woke too? How far down the rabbit hole have some people gone in denying the reality around them.

    SARS-COV2 is not part of any woke agenda or virtue signaling or whatever. If you're posting misinformation and being labeled a conspiracy theorist by multiple people because of it, it's not everybody else that's wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭hollypink


    Swimming pools are excluded from the covid cert requirement for some reason. Or were they not checking gym users either? My gym didn't check this week which didn't bother me (although I hope they don't get into trouble over it.)

    Since Tuesday 7 December, a COVID pass (vaccine or recovery certificate) is also required for:

    gyms and leisure centres (excluding access to swimming pools or standalone swimming pool facilities)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Ah get way outta that. It is part of it, those clowns going around posting pictures of them with their 'I did my bit and got vaccinated' badges as if they were some sort of hero. Nothing but virtue signalling twats. Look we all know where you stand and that's fine but don't come on here insulting everyone who disagrees with you. Lots of us can see the restrictions and covid for what they are and because you don't like it you think you have some higher moral authority to lecture us. Get down off your high horse there tonto.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Not sure on the swimming pool but it wouldn't make sense that you show a pass into the gym but not the pool then again with what we have seen with these restrictions it wouldn't surprise me. As for gym goers I didn't see them being asked either for the covid pass. No one on the reception at times either and definitely no one at the door checking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Lots of us can see the restrictions and covid for what they are

    What are they?

    You're saying they're part of the woke agenda and people are virtue signaling during a once in a century pandemic, you really need to examine where you're getting your information from.

    The vaccines received massive amounts of money from the most non-liberal political parties that have existed for a long while (GOP & Conservatives) you can't call any of it woke as much as you might try, you're the one trying to stay in the safe space here. I'm happy to take and respond to criticism but I'll always try and back it up with evidence and data rather than "feelings" as seems to be happening more and more from the COVID outrage posters.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Unfortunate timing really. Not only do failures stay in power they usually get a promotion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    I don't think you can judge Covid restrictions in a vacuum. I think the reaction is in keeping with our times where the perception is that the world is a scary place and Governments need to do everything to protect the individual because individuals left to their own devices are selfish and reckless and will do whatever is in their self-interest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    The restrictions are not there for public health as I have said they are there to protect the politicians and public service management including HSE management for the mismanagement of the health service. That's all these restrictions are for. I have said it before all restrictions should have been lifted as some as all the over 70's and most vulnerable were vaccinated, I also think the covid cert and coercion used to make people get vaccinated should not have been done, it should have been the vaccine is there if you want it. People would have made up their own minds then. Yes the government can advise that it would be best to get it but that is your decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The restrictions are not there for public health as I have said they are there to protect the politicians and public service management including HSE management for the mismanagement of the health service.

    At a worldwide level across multiple countries all to save the HSE? I guess Tony does have a lot of power.

    At least everyone knows where you're posting from 😉 (enjoy the safe space).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    The last bastion of the beaten look what they are doing over there. I don't care what they do elsewhere, I care what they do here. So you are so gung ho on restrictions and vaccinating anyone or anything from the cradle to grave, convince me of the reasons for the covid certs? Why are they there? If 92% of the population is vaccinated then why do we need the restrictions?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    Well said.

    Ultimately though we will eventually settle on an arbitrary death number we can deal with and the healthcare system will still be stretched but we'll just accept it as being the new normal(or else we'll just live in this quagmire for years to come)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Because the unvaccinated are still taking up 50% of the COVID beds...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    In a health service that have made no changes to capacity in the 2 years or managing this. That just proves my point the restrictions are there to protect to woefully inept healthservice and that is not the fault of those on the frontlines but the fault of government and mismanagement



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,559 ✭✭✭celt262


    And as said a few posts up are the Government's throughout the world trying to protect the HSE with their restrictions?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭corcaigh07


    Genuinely interested, do you have a source for that stat?



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,503 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    It's been repeated time after time:

    Remain civil at all times

    Drop the Conspiracy Theory nonsense

    Drop the blatant abuse of public officials

    Drop the merest hint of a reference to the Cervical Cancer issue

    If any of you are really struggling to understand these instructions, drop me a PM and I will see if I can make it any simpler for you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    One of the reports is here, people better than me on here have gone through the numbers to figure out the %'s:

    Vaccination status of confirmed COVID-19 cases in Ireland Week 46.pdf (hpsc.ie)

    (basically doing a diff between reports to get up to date figures). Other than that, it's usually tweets from officials, other countries see similar data and present it better (basically the lower vaccinated % the more beds the unvaccinated take up). Austria and Netherlands are 2 that come to mind.

    And this is those who can be vaccinated but didn't, the people who can't be vaccinated would be a rounding difference within 1% in any of the figures.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    You raise a very interesting point.

    The age issue you mention was correct up until the middle of 2020.

    However,and perhaps surprisingly,once the fact that Contracting Covid-19 was NOT an automatic death sentence for MOST people became known,the middle-aged began to steadily make alternative socialising arrangements.

    Nothing on a massive scale,but rather a slow,steady change in their determination to remain Human,as opposed to the safer and Expert recommended isolation procedures,which appear to be a cornerstone of the Covid "fight" in these parts.

    So,I would suggest that the middle-aged are engaging in somewhat more House "Gatherings" as opposed to Parties,but ye never know,given enough alcohol,one can swiftly morph into the other !

    That being said,it is obvious how a significant swathe of our Society now appear to be reluctant to contemplate a return to "Normality" and instead become more comfortable with each new restriction imposed upon them.

    Makes me wonder how it's playing out in North Korea ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    I guess we might have to agree on house party definition. I used to go to them all the time. They were brilliant. Crazy nights. What my social circles do now are very different ha. Anecdotal obviously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Have to say house parties never appealed to me. Would dread it when someone would say come back to ours for a few drinks at the end of a night. That was pre covid defo wouldn't go to one now.🤣



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    I suggest we have been "post pandemic" since mid 2020.

    However even after Covid-19 had been laid bare before us,and it's methodology better understood,our requirement for a variety of "Emergency Legislation" based restrictions apparently Increased ?

    The World has had a refresher course in Virus conduct,and in the protective measures against them,which when all is said and done,has been the same for almost 2 centuries.

    What IS different,this time round,is the immediacy and incidious nature of the Worl Wide Web and its many Social Media outlets,all providing new found proof of how to control and direct entire Social Groupings to a common end.

    The "Public Health Emergency" is long past....the other "Emergencies" remain,unaddressed and largely unnoticed until it becomes permitted to direct the public gaze towards them.....😨


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭PicardWithHair



    I find this very positive that the IT are reporting this, a year ago they would have considered this kind of talk far right conspiracy ..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,974 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    What I find amazing is we have 94% of the eligible population who took the vacine.

    You would imagine a few % of the 6 % is took up from people who are advised against taking it by doctors and pregnant woman.

    Then you have foriegners and from my personal experience of who I know didnt take the vaccine, paranoid or not intelligent people who I would say are very unlikely to be on boards.

    Yet a handful of posters spend the majority of their posts calling anyone here anti vaxers for any time they post anything negative about the vaccine.

    Boards is a strange place at times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,773 ✭✭✭brickster69


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    This time next year Varadkar will be back in the driver's seat. That's Martin's "exit strategy". Keep kicking the can down the road until its Varadkar's problem again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭PicardWithHair


    And slowly slowly slowly if they see sense so will the public, and that and only then is when this ends.....

    on the other hand ...

    ... I was talking recently to my Dad's partner and she really believes we will all be safe and back to "normal" once 100% of the pop is vaccinated




  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭PicardWithHair


    I saw a BBC headline yesterday ...

    "3rd Booster shot crucial in defeating Omicron variant" ...


    Good timing isn't it !!!!! 🙄

    Next Winter 2022 :

    "4th Booster shot crucial in defeating Zeta variant" ...


    2023 ...


    "5th Booster shot crucial in defeating Omega variant" ...

    .

    .

    .

    20xx

    "zth Booster shot crucial in defeating ZetaZetaOmegaPhi variant" ..."



  • Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    Great article and I’ve posted up a couple by Mark Paul in the past.

    This line stood out for me;

    ”But surely then there would be a desire for people to prove they had the new Omicron vaccine booster, and a renewed clamour to extend the vaccine pass system all over again.”

    Virtue signalling being called out, first time for me seeing that in widely-seen national media (would say MSM but know what that would label me).



  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭PicardWithHair


    A few here have been pointing out this infinite chasing our tails approach and have been blasted as conspiracy nuts, the only person in Irish media that was doing the same was Niall Boylan.

    So it's good to see the snobby IT reporting on it, now if RTE could only do the same ???.....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭PicardWithHair


    I see "experts" in the UK are predicting Omicron will cause 75K deaths in the UK in the next 5 months ...

    Does anyone believe this utter fearmongering tripe ?

    How come they aren't shut down for misinformation ?



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,503 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Who are the unvaccinated in the hospital beds? Who do you really think they are? Fit? Health conscious?

    Don't you think a lot of these people would be taking up hospital beds anyway?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,457 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Ah no. Definitely only there because of covid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    They skew younger than the vaccinated and it was in reply to this:

     If 92% of the population is vaccinated then why do we need the restrictions?

    If we had more of our hospital capacity available then less restrictions would be needed, the last 6-7% are probably a lost cause, so we'll be restricted until spring time.

    You think they are admitted for something else then get counted as a COVID patient? There are separate numbers for non-COVID admittances, but do elaborate, you might be close to blowing the case wide open.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,184 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    How come these “experts” aren’t called conspiracy theory loonies?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭d22ontour


    I like reading your posts but something about this 50% puzzles me.

    I agree the vaccine has helped in reducing hospital cases and deaths substantially.

    87% of ICU admissions have underlying conditions according to something I read here.

    Let's say there is 100 in ICU because my maths suck to make it easier for me.

    There are 87 people with underlying conditions in ICU vaxxed and unvaxxed who who would probably be there regardless of vaccination status?

    That leaves 13 people with no underlying conditions who are in ICU.

    We don't know what ages for anyone but I may have read there are 40 pregnant unvaxxed women in ICU,lets say almost half of everyone in ICU is pregnant but unvaxxed.

    We are probably looking at 6 or 7 unvaxxed people in the whole country in ICU who have no underlying conditions or are pregnant?

    If these numbers are even close to being right, we are been restricted due to 6 or 7 people?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    It's also down to regular hospital beds, not just ICU, we're all restricted, the extra restrictions on the unvaccinated is due to them taking up a disproportionate amount of COVID hospital capacity regardless of which category TimeLadsPlease has them in.

    Also, take up of the vaccine among those with underlying conditions has been very high so it's likely that the conditions aren't that severe among the unvaccinated hospitalised.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,914 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    We don't know what ages for anyone but I may have read there are 40 pregnant unvaxxed women in ICU,lets say almost half of everyone in ICU is pregnant but unvaxxed.

    I was surprised at that figure, so a quick google and yes, 34 unvaccinated pregnant women have been in ICU..... for the entire year. Not currently in ICU. That's a massive difference.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭d22ontour


    I only get the numbers from here, people complain they use April numbers as they should be more up to date. You can't blame the unvaxxed for the reduction in bed spaces we currently have due to gross mismanagement by our current and previous governments. We had more bed spaces in the 80s but now we have less but our population has grown 1m ? Overfunded and poorly managed HSE has us were we are.

    20b a year with the amount of staff per population compared to any other EU state is horrific.



  • Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭Hego Damask


    So my original post about this seems to be deleted, I don't know why.

    Anyway, I like the way BBC are just dismissing this as "far right".

    People are waking up to this tyranny, it's about time too ..



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