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Heavyweight Boxing

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,950 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    He was competitive as in never got blown away but was never going to win that way ,

    AJ's problem is if he comes out to box him again he will find out very quickly things are going the same way & he has never once showed the ability to change mid fight, to lose again in such a passive manner will be embarrassing , Look at Wilder he had the courage and balls to go after Fury & at least went out giving it his absolute all ,

    AJ as you rightly say AJ will have to take one to land one but does he have that courage still



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    Hi everyone, I don't add enough to the conversation here, but I do enjoy reading your thoughts. So, what happens next?

    JOshua gets his belts back, again (finally using his power), Fury fights White?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    Fury is ripping that Usyk was the one to knock AJ permanently off the hype train. It has cost both of them a fortune.

    Wilder being allowed a rematch and Usyk enforcing his mandatory has cost the 2 guys (and Eddie Hearn and Top Rank) an absolute fortune.

    Fury won't see that purse in 2 fights (Whyte/Wallin and Usyk) so must be a real sickener.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,950 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    AJ v Usyk you'd have to have Usyk as favourite ,

    Probably most pressure AJ has ever been under going in to a fight because in the Ruiz 1 he just got caught but Usyk gave him a boxing lesson , Lose & im not sure what happens,

    Whyte has to get through Wallin first in 3 weeks time , Fury mentioned Whyte as one of his last 4 fights pre Wilder & Warren said today if they have to fight Whyte so be it ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,950 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Kevin Barry (Fury was training in his Vegas gym) was saying on the Monday morning after the AJ fight Fury was in foul form in the gym & really deflated as himself and his team truly always believed AJ would be short work & easy money but a career defining sceptical for fans,

    Kevin always good to listen to & always found it very intrusting that he has said for a while now that Fury would wipe the floor with AJ, You've got to remember his own fighter Parker spar's Fury & fought AJ so he has seen both up close.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,563 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    My overall point is that a far more confident and committed AJ boxing to win should not see a surprise if he wins via KO, or points.

    Unless that really was his best, or close to it two weeks ago....if it was, then he has little hope....

    Usyk likely (and deservedly) can start as a favorite. I'd make him a slight to warm favorite.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,950 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I hear what your saying but AJ went 12 rounds, didn't look hurt until round 12 but still never tried to pull he victory out, He was just happy to let the fight slip away & survive ,

    To me that was the most telling thing, He wasn't willing to go into the flames & get burned to get a victory,

    He can't beat Usyk being that passive ,He has to be more aggressive but also willing to take more shots , I don't think he is wiling or capable to do that anymore,

    Sky & Hearn won't say it but the aul man in silk Pj's comes to mind, his mind set seems to be a better athlete but not a fighter,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Jeez, that was some fight between Fury and Wilder; just on a whole other level than Joshua/Usyk in terms of the venom in the punches being thrown. Fury's putting himself up there in the pantheon with guys like Ali, Louis, Marciano and Johnson.

    It was weird how Joshua didn't try to use his power advantage to make the guy stepping up in weight feel out of his comfort zone. He needed to throw more combinations to put a bit of doubt in Usyk's mind. And surely he should have gone to the body more with Usyk having good head movement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,563 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I agree on the AJ points

    On Fury, seriously, we need to steady on a bit.....I mean, he has beaten two elites....one was almost 40 and several years past his best when Fury beat him. Nobody is telling me that the 2015 Wlad was near as good as he was 7-8 years prior.

    the other, very few people rate at all highly, other than a KO shot....Wilder is not a great fighter.....never was.

    There are many HW greats with far stellar records. Fury has what, one actual defence of the lineal HW title?

    Not to mention his doping conviction. The Wlad win will always have a suspicion about it.....yes, did not test positive before/during the Wlad time....but!!!! He did test positive for nandrolone coming up to the Wlad rematch



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,950 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Styles make fights

    Usyk just needed to keep touching AJ as often as he could & avoid big shots & he did brilliantly , AJ wanted to do the same which was poor game planning he should have been more aggressive , I heard someone's coach calling AJ & McCracken as having misplaced arrogance in there game plan & it really does sum it up

    Fury tried to run Wilder over & Wilder tried to land that right hand hard, the two lads really did go to war



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,117 ✭✭✭✭OmegaGene


    i watched his interview and he said monday morning everyone was down in the gym because it was seen as easy work for 100m but thats gone now by the look of the current situation

    The internet isn’t for everyone



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    The thing is though, the lad has feck all stamina so he is not really a great athlete either, sure he looks like a real specimen but its aesthetic only.

    The notion aswell that he didn't put himself into the fire is mute aswell, maybe he just doesn't have the tools. Usyk was still moving in round 12, unless you are standing still AJ is pretty clueless. Usyk was just simply better in every department. Better ring smarts, movement and punches landed.

    I am really struggling to see what AJ can do better in next fight. He cannot outbox him, maybe he can sit tight for a few rounds and land a hail mary shot I don't know. But with a guy with Usyk's movement, Joshua is always going to be reaching I think, again I think he needs to come in big and put all of his energy into the first 3-4 rounds, maybe play some mind games that he still feels he is the better boxer and allow Usyk to think he is going to try more of the same, and then pour it on him, swing for him Wilder style and risk going out on his shield. I don't see any other way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    Said I'd throw a bet on this now as I could easily forget they are fighting come nearer the fight.

    Haven't much interest.

    Never thought much of Whyte and I've a feeling he is not able for it anymore.

    Screenshot_20211012-171059.jpg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,563 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I think Usyk's performance is getting a tad overrated. He won, yes, but AJ was competitive for a fair bit. It should not be a surprise at all if AK could close the gap in fight 2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,950 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    To be fair to AJ he hit Usyk plenty of times he wasn't finding it impossible to get to him , it was just when he was happy to land one shot & then try to get out,

    He needs to land combinations & when he hurts him don't let him off the hook, The big problem is that means getting hit & expanding more energy ,

    I think he will come in at a similar weight but just be more aggressive be prepared to throw more than one shot when in range, AJ done quite well at stages positioning wise & putting Usyk where he wanted him up but just never let more than one shot go , He needs to let his hands go more but still be smart about setting it up,

    Boxer at all weights tend to get into a position to throw shots & with muscle memory straight away step & circle out of range to safety & you can't play that game with Usyk when he is quicker & more agile than you ( its only the real the real good ones feel safe still in range) , AJ being the bigger stronger man needs to find position fire of 2 or 3 shots & hold his ground & fire again obviously not all the time but more often than fight 1 ., There is a lot more nuance to it but you know what I'm getting at

    Ruiz 1 has made AJ panic in range & stiffen up which sucks the gas out of him , he needs to have a training camp that puts him there often & makes him uncomfortable there as often as possible so it become comfortable ,

    I just don't think he has it in him anymore to pull it off ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Absolutely. After 8/9 rounds they were dead level. Joshua could well have chosen that moment to go for broke or to put the foot down but he didn’t. The last 4 rounds put the real daylight between them so up until then it was very close. The 11th and 12th made the real difference. AJ tried not to lose and Usyk went and won it. I wouldn’t get too bogged down in weight or anything else if he arrives in the same condition next night he could well win it with slightly improved tactics or listening to his corner better. He’s meant to be back in the gym so the hunger would appear to be back. Usyk produced one hell of a performance, can he be as good again? It’s so different to Fury and Wilder. Wilder was at a disadvantage in so many ways whereas Joshua has advantages that he can definately make count. He can also improve on many ways without a complete overhaul being required. He will have many chances during the fight to win or change it as he’s not in with a monster that is likely to ko him inside 3 rounds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,563 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Pretty much everything I would have said.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,894 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Joshua has all the tools to beat Usyk just needs to come with a better game plan and mindset.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,555 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    I think you have thrown away a tenner


    Wallins record is skewed by a performance with Fury, a fight which I'd say Fury didnlittle prep for


    He's got a pretty poor Amateur record, losing more than 1 in every 3 fights.


    His pro record is marked with a fight with Fury and a long drawn out fight with a fighter that Wilder KO'd in 1 and AJ in 7 with Dominic Breazle being his "best" win


    I think he's out of there inside 8. Whyte isn't a world champion but he can bang



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    Have to lose one sometime I suppose.

    I don't think much of either fighter.

    Maybe Whyte's record being skewed by the Povetkin win.

    A prime Fury would wipe the floor with both.

    Threw a tenner on to try and stir some bit of interest in it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,894 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    That's a good interview with Fury and Bruno on youtube from a few weeks ago.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    There;s a turn up young man - we agree completely on an in-depth discussion! Mellowing away! By the talk of a lot of ones aj doesn’t stand a chance. Lots he could do, it’s doing it though. He’s at a crossroads either he goes out and tries all he can to win his belts back and would even look gallant in defeat or just do the same again. I reckon the former and I think he will get to Usyk. I’d be going with my original prediction of Joshua ko



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    I dont think either of them are that special but I thhink it’s a very interesting fight. Wallin’s victory over Breazele is a good one he boxed the head of him. He doesn’t get overawed and he will be a live opponent for whyte. For all that I think Whyte will have a bit too much for him. It’s a good measure of Whyte



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,563 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Wallin’s a big man. Very game, and has a good chin. It’s Dillian Whyte, folks he is in with, not a prime Fury.

    Fair enough that Whyte is circa 3-1 on, but I’d expect this to be close and hard won. Victory for either man not a certainty!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    I’m no fan of Whyte but I think he’s a better boxer than you’re giving him credit for. He’s decent. Strong, powerful and when he’s on it he is good on stamina too (on what exactly is questionable!). He’s got 2 wins over Chisora who is competitive and in no way embarrassed himself against Usyk - the belt holder. He beat Parker and should really have finished him early. Even if he ended that fight badly Parker is a former champ too. Povetkin caught him after being battered, it would have been similar if Wilder had got Fury out in R4 last weekend.

    I find it hard to predict the winner here I think it could be SD Whyte or close cards. He will beed to be in shape. I don’t fancy a Wallin ko I don;t think he hits hard enough but every chance Whyte will give him the opening if he can weather the early storm. Very evenly matched.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    Wallin's biggest issue will be if a few lads on here give him a chance.

    Don't start jinxing my bets! 😂😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,880 ✭✭✭✭The Nal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    The "top fighters" are the ones that get the experience by getting the chances. They are usually the ones that don't get beaten in their first few fights. They had gotten their steps up at the right time along the way. For example, if say Fury and Wilder had fought after 2 fights each, one would have lost and the loser might have been relegated to being used as a journeyman. A tough fight with a bad loss can also change a boxer. So that loser likely wouldn't be being talked about today. Most lads have a window in which they can either make it or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,563 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I am simply saying it will be a hard fought win. I would back Whyte here, but there should be no issues with a very cloely fought fight, or even an "upset."

    Dillian Whyte is tier 2 at HW. He's good....and that is all.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,950 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Whyte's a hard one to call ,

    Who's the best guy he has fought since AJ, In my view its probably Chisora who gave Whyte all sorts of problems he was beating him till the Ko in the 2nd fight,

    Parker is a good name but very average , Parker could have finished him to,

    AVP flatlined him & he is well past it ,



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