Heavyweight Boxing

walshb

It’s as much his manner of victory as opposed to best wins..

If I had to pick a fight where he looked at his best, I’d probably say Betbick. He was a monster that night.

Destroys Berbick, knocks pinky out, knocks Biggs out, clearly out points a spoiling Smith and a big awkward Tony Tucker, decimates Bruno in 5, Williams in a one punch KO, decimates Holmes in 4 rounds, Tubbs destroyed…

knocks undefeated lineal champion Spinks cold in one round.

Comes back and beats a very dangerous and big Ruddock twice. His points win in fight 2 performance wise was superb.

Post prison I don’t overly assess. He was clearly not the same fighter

Anyway, I have seen enough of pre prison Tyson and enough of AJ and Wilder to tell me that neither man lasts long vs 1986-1989 Tyson

mid 90s Tyson, albeit past his prime also knocks both out. He was still a very aggressive heavy hitter, who could still take a punch, and who could fight hard. AJ/Wilder won’t trouble him. Wilder and his 10 punches per round, and AJ scared sh1tless to get hit, and when he does by Tyson he is goosed.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017180#Comment_118017180

Granted but he has still defended it 7 times, not once.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018681#Comment_118018681

They were not defences. No belt or title was on the line.

unless I missed something, but were any even sanctioned/advertised as being lineal or any other name defences?

sure couple them were ten rounders if I recall

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017212#Comment_118017212

I dont think you necessarily see the same Fury against a different opponent, come forward works well against wilder as he is poor on the back foot.

OmegaGene

Wilder suspended for 6 months and fury 45 days, id like to see wilder back in action soon once his hand heals

ebbsy

I will say one thing about AJ - he stayed in the ring for the scores etc and took his defeat like a man. Congratulated the other side.

Wilder was a disgrace.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018581#Comment_118018581

But who was his best win ?

Bruno ? had already been ko'd by Weatherspoon & SMith,

Holmes ? Was on a 2 fight losing streak & two years retired , both losses against very small Spinks who was 14 stone in them bouts,

Ruddock ? Who was good but not world class ,had been stopped by Jaco & then fought nobody himself, He was also beaten by 2 rounds by Lennox the following year &

Is his best win on paper Spinks ??? a man who fought at 200lbs as a heavyweight ?

walshb

Not sure what his best win was. He had a run of 3/4 years beating everyone he faced..

Can pick apart any man’s resume. Doesn’t prove anything really.Like me saying Fury beat an almost 40 year old Wlad and Deontay Wilder.

to the original point: he decimates AJ and Wilder in my view. They have very very little chance of victory.

btw, Tyson beat Ruddock twice, and kind of ruined him as a fighter. Lewis beat an older and already beaten Ruddock. Tyson beat a prime Ruddock. And Ruddock in 1991 was not only world class, he was top rated. Circa April 1991 only Mike and Evander ranked higher. You are wrong here!

we know you think Mike was overrated. Pointless me trying to change that

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118019207#Comment_118019207

Seriously, other than a big right hand, what on earth are you seeing from Wilder that leads you to believe he beats prime Tyson?

Tyson, who took a helluva shot anyway, and had an excellent defense..

I’m bewildered. Tyson is from the 1980s and 1990s.

What developments and improvements are you talking about with Wilder? The guy can barely throw a combination, has terrible feet, a questionable engine, and his chin is not great..

The way you’re painting it hear you’d swear Tyson was some ancient fighters from John Ls era, and Wilder some super skilled modern great.

The quality boxer has risen since the 1980s and 1990s?

AJ/Whyte/Chisora/Parker/Charles Martin. To name a few. Really??

Bowe/Lewis/Tyson/Foreman/Holyfield…yes, serious improvements today with our current crop!!🤔

loyatemu

Heavyweight Boxing is unusual compared to other sports in that the standards have not improved notably over time, all that's happened is that the average size of the fighters has increased. Djokovic would wipe the floor with any of the past greats of tennis; the current Man City team would destroy the likes of Brazil 1970. Yet it's hard to make the case that even Fury would definitely beat the leading heavies of the 80s and 90s. At the lower weights you'd imagine improvements in training, conditioning, diet etc would give them an edge over their past equivalents, but at heavyweight it's just been bigger, bigger, bigger.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118019300#Comment_118019300

Yes. Boxing far more difficult to assess and measure

Can really only use what we see. And what I see, only Fury stands out as a credible top rated fighter that could be top rated with the best of the 1990s

Wilder has nothing but a right hand, but against the best in the 1990s I reckon it won’t be as near useful as it is today.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118019310#Comment_118019310

Tyson landed on men 6 feet 5 and 6. He’d absolutely get to Wilder, and would definitely break his body

Wilder’s power was a straight right. Against a squat shorter and solid Tyson it would very ineffective. The chap hasn’t even got a good enough uppercut to do the trick.

jimwallace197

Who do people on here want to see Fury fight in his next three matches if he doesn't retire before then, for me its Whyte (only because of the AJ/Uysk fight), then Uysk (assuming he beats Joshua), & then Joshua to cement his legacy. Hopefully the above happens over the next year & a half to two years.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018979#Comment_118018979

Did Ruddock fight any other fighter in that top 10 of any year before he fought Mike ? I could forget someone ,

I believe the answer is a big NO , if im not mistaken the only fighters he ever fought who where ever in the top at any time where Tyson (he lost twice) Lennox ( he lost in 2 ) & Tommy Morrison was 10 in 92 or 93 ( he also Ko'd him )

It wasn't Mike that ruined Ruddock it was competition ,

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118019403#Comment_118019403

I think Whyte & winner of Usyk v AJ twice

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118019670#Comment_118019670

Regardless. He was world class rated when Tyson fought him. Top 3-5…

anyway, Tyson decimates AJ. End of!

US2

Rematch has always been a thing I know, but isn't it absolutely ridiculous that Whyte has a rematch clause with Wallin. Same when he fought povetkin. Seems no matter what way you beat a match room fighter, completely outclass or vicious KO, you have to beat them twice.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118019795#Comment_118019795

Yes. You’d swear they were elite superstars or somethin

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118019699#Comment_118019699

You could be right

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118019814#Comment_118019814

Should be only in world title fights if a long term champion loses or it's a dodgy decision

Guys like Whyte if you lose tough s*te ,

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018118#Comment_118018118

I'm second this post all day.

AJ was meat and drink for Tyson.

Tysons biggest enemy was himself. He went nuts, went to prison and wasn't able to re invent himself like ali or Forman could

But on his prime especially under Cus, he was lethal

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118019699#Comment_118019699

Like Charles Martin 😃

No 2 in the ibf rankings.

badabing106

Mike at 5 foot 11 would have a hard time against the behemoths of today. Let's be honest, If he was starting out today, it would be in the cruiserweight division

Every dominant heavyweight Champ since the Lennox Lewis have the same thing in common, they are all over 6 foot 5, overs 240ilbs, and extremely athletic even for that size.

That is the way of the jungle in heavyweight boxing now

walshb

Tyson was solid at 220. He would not have to be a CW today. Aged 20/21/22/23 he was 215-220..he’s a HW..

His height was one metric.

Guys, his height was as much an advantage to him, and disadvantage to taller foes….it allowed him to get up and under, and taller men has to adjust to punch downwards. Added to this was his upper body movement and fast attacking feet and angles.

He met men taller and heavier and destroyed them..

seriously, apart from Fury, how exactly does any of them today beat him? I can’t argue in any way for any of them..

The talent at HW today is just not all that great..

He will never fail to land clean and often on any them, and I see no way any them (apart from Fury) being able to deal with him.

badabing106

If Mike was starting out today at heavyweight at 20 years of age, there are a conveyor belt of skilled, athletic behemoths awaiting. If you search the top 50 rankings today, the up and coming future stars are all behemoths. Mike's body would not be the same having to fight them one after the other

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118020500#Comment_118020500

What?

so, a 20/21/22 year old Tyson

Tyson was at his peak aged 20/21/22/23. He was undisputed and lineal champion aged 21

who are these behomeths that are too much for him?

am I watching a different HW division?

badabing106

Arslanbek Makhmudov

Filip Hrgovic

Jared Anderson

It's not that Mike couldn't beat any one heavyweight, it's that he would be having gruelling contests against fighters that would man handle him all day long. Sure he could beat them but I think it would be not realistic for it to be the norm and for it to last for more than a short period

I was just looking at Riddick Bowe's record and unbelievably he never fought Tyson. I could have sworn he did.

Serious case of The Mandela Effect.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118020562#Comment_118020562

Yep. I’d back Tyson to beat all these handily!

far too fast!

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118020572#Comment_118020572

Lots of people always get Riddick & Ruddock mixed up