Heavyweight Boxing

yourdeadwright

Hearn annoys the hell out of me,

He is now adamant that Whyte should fight Fury next when the public want Usyk v Fury and many even saying Fury should wait and fight the winner But when Whyte was AJ's mandatory Eddie didn't push it at all because it wasn't what the public wanted ,

Id love to see Wilder v AJ but i don't think we will ever see that one ,

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008587#Comment_118008587

But AJ plans not to be like he was in his last fight....that's why to say he has no chance is a little odd..

He plans to reverse the Usyk decision...

May not mean he wins, but surely he could have a chance?

ebbsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008615#Comment_118008615

I think his only chance would be to knock Usyk out......

I think its a bit deeper than that however, it looks like he has AJ's number in terms of boxing skill for sure.

Did AJ look like he really wanted it ? Did he want to go down into the trenches ? I am not sure. Because if you want to beat Usyk you will have to dig deep.

Does he need a new manager ????

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008718#Comment_118008718

But there were plenty instances in the fight where it was nip and tuck, and Usyk was not at all clearly superior...

AJ, with the right attitude, plan, advice and desire to actually go and win, could present a far tougher fight to Usyk

AdrianG08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008614#Comment_118008614

Was Whyte ever AJ's mandatory?

He was always pushed in the WBC rankings, I think it was Wilder he was mandatory for.

One thing that delays things is this constant rematch buzz, but its completely understandable and has always been the case historically. Problem is AJ is very beatable so his rematches seem to take up alot of time. Usyk will KO him next time i'm sure of it. He knows AJ only has one way of winning, pour it on him for 3-4 rounds and Usyk will have prepared for that. When the gas tank empties, he will be stopped.

No more than Fury and Wilder, the fights are entertaining sure, but we know the outcome of Fury v Wilder and Joshua v Usyk so rematches don't carry that lustre.

Fury v Usyk would be fascinating, even the build up to see how Fury would play it. Usyk and his team are gentlemen so the mind games won't have any impact you would imagine. I just think Fury will be too big, he will use his physical advantages to the full extent.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008615#Comment_118008615

AJ has to make it a shoot out, He has to try get Usyk out early but he always seems petrified of gassing out .

It's going to take big balls from AJ to stick the foot down if he does it & doesn't stop Usyk early then he knows he will be the one stopped late on ,

The problem with any other game plan is that it is likely to just turn out the exact same fight as last time to me that would be more embarrassing than getting stopped himself ,at least he can say he had a proper go ,

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008776#Comment_118008776

Not so sure he needs to take Usyk out. As said, plenty times where they were both boxing very competitively.

Usyk seemed far more committed throughout to actually pressing home for the win

AJ needs to use his size, range, height, weight....and to simply give it more welly! Stop fretting about being clipped/hurt.....go and try to win...

He boxed like he didn't want to, or think he could win.....

OmegaGene

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008243#Comment_118008243

dean whyte is a funny bloke on ifltv interviews, his real name is lemar scott and he was a very influential figure in the brixton area and has left that life behind

himself and shane would be a good scrap but i think thats only banter

frank warren is saying the fury whyte fight should be in the uk but i am sure fury has two more fights in the states

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008936#Comment_118008936

I agree with you on that. I think a cagey opening 2-3 rounds isn’t the worst thing for aj but he needs to go for home at some point. He fought to not lose last time and as a result just went through the motions.Usyk stung him many times but he’s been hit far harder before. He barely threw a body shot all night. I think it was round 8 or 9 when he bloodied Usyk’s eye, might have been a head involvement but at the end of 10th that fight was in the balance. If aj had come out in 11 like Usyk did then he may well have won. It was a very cheap way for a champion to surrender his titles. He’s defended titles 7 times by my count even if some were a bit soft.

The big plan to announce himself in USA really backfired. Unlikely to ever fight there again. It’s kinda disappointing not to see those big bouts in MSG any more.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118008936#Comment_118008936

He was competitive as in never got blown away but was never going to win that way ,

AJ's problem is if he comes out to box him again he will find out very quickly things are going the same way & he has never once showed the ability to change mid fight, to lose again in such a passive manner will be embarrassing , Look at Wilder he had the courage and balls to go after Fury & at least went out giving it his absolute all ,

AJ as you rightly say AJ will have to take one to land one but does he have that courage still

Brief_Lives

Hi everyone, I don't add enough to the conversation here, but I do enjoy reading your thoughts. So, what happens next?

JOshua gets his belts back, again (finally using his power), Fury fights White?

AdrianG08

Fury is ripping that Usyk was the one to knock AJ permanently off the hype train. It has cost both of them a fortune.

Wilder being allowed a rematch and Usyk enforcing his mandatory has cost the 2 guys (and Eddie Hearn and Top Rank) an absolute fortune.

Fury won't see that purse in 2 fights (Whyte/Wallin and Usyk) so must be a real sickener.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009219#Comment_118009219

AJ v Usyk you'd have to have Usyk as favourite ,

Probably most pressure AJ has ever been under going in to a fight because in the Ruiz 1 he just got caught but Usyk gave him a boxing lesson , Lose & im not sure what happens,

Whyte has to get through Wallin first in 3 weeks time , Fury mentioned Whyte as one of his last 4 fights pre Wilder & Warren said today if they have to fight Whyte so be it ,

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009277#Comment_118009277

Kevin Barry (Fury was training in his Vegas gym) was saying on the Monday morning after the AJ fight Fury was in foul form in the gym & really deflated as himself and his team truly always believed AJ would be short work & easy money but a career defining sceptical for fans,

Kevin always good to listen to & always found it very intrusting that he has said for a while now that Fury would wipe the floor with AJ, You've got to remember his own fighter Parker spar's Fury & fought AJ so he has seen both up close.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009192#Comment_118009192

My overall point is that a far more confident and committed AJ boxing to win should not see a surprise if he wins via KO, or points.

Unless that really was his best, or close to it two weeks ago....if it was, then he has little hope....

Usyk likely (and deservedly) can start as a favorite. I'd make him a slight to warm favorite.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009491#Comment_118009491

I hear what your saying but AJ went 12 rounds, didn't look hurt until round 12 but still never tried to pull he victory out, He was just happy to let the fight slip away & survive ,

To me that was the most telling thing, He wasn't willing to go into the flames & get burned to get a victory,

He can't beat Usyk being that passive ,He has to be more aggressive but also willing to take more shots , I don't think he is wiling or capable to do that anymore,

Sky & Hearn won't say it but the aul man in silk Pj's comes to mind, his mind set seems to be a better athlete but not a fighter,

RichieRich_89

Jeez, that was some fight between Fury and Wilder; just on a whole other level than Joshua/Usyk in terms of the venom in the punches being thrown. Fury's putting himself up there in the pantheon with guys like Ali, Louis, Marciano and Johnson.

It was weird how Joshua didn't try to use his power advantage to make the guy stepping up in weight feel out of his comfort zone. He needed to throw more combinations to put a bit of doubt in Usyk's mind. And surely he should have gone to the body more with Usyk having good head movement.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009568#Comment_118009568

I agree on the AJ points

On Fury, seriously, we need to steady on a bit.....I mean, he has beaten two elites....one was almost 40 and several years past his best when Fury beat him. Nobody is telling me that the 2015 Wlad was near as good as he was 7-8 years prior.

the other, very few people rate at all highly, other than a KO shot....Wilder is not a great fighter.....never was.

There are many HW greats with far stellar records. Fury has what, one actual defence of the lineal HW title?

Not to mention his doping conviction. The Wlad win will always have a suspicion about it.....yes, did not test positive before/during the Wlad time....but!!!! He did test positive for nandrolone coming up to the Wlad rematch

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009568#Comment_118009568

Styles make fights

Usyk just needed to keep touching AJ as often as he could & avoid big shots & he did brilliantly , AJ wanted to do the same which was poor game planning he should have been more aggressive , I heard someone's coach calling AJ & McCracken as having misplaced arrogance in there game plan & it really does sum it up

Fury tried to run Wilder over & Wilder tried to land that right hand hard, the two lads really did go to war

OmegaGene

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009379#Comment_118009379

i watched his interview and he said monday morning everyone was down in the gym because it was seen as easy work for 100m but thats gone now by the look of the current situation

AdrianG08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009536#Comment_118009536

The thing is though, the lad has feck all stamina so he is not really a great athlete either, sure he looks like a real specimen but its aesthetic only.

The notion aswell that he didn't put himself into the fire is mute aswell, maybe he just doesn't have the tools. Usyk was still moving in round 12, unless you are standing still AJ is pretty clueless. Usyk was just simply better in every department. Better ring smarts, movement and punches landed.

I am really struggling to see what AJ can do better in next fight. He cannot outbox him, maybe he can sit tight for a few rounds and land a hail mary shot I don't know. But with a guy with Usyk's movement, Joshua is always going to be reaching I think, again I think he needs to come in big and put all of his energy into the first 3-4 rounds, maybe play some mind games that he still feels he is the better boxer and allow Usyk to think he is going to try more of the same, and then pour it on him, swing for him Wilder style and risk going out on his shield. I don't see any other way.

blade1

Said I'd throw a bet on this now as I could easily forget they are fighting come nearer the fight.

Haven't much interest.

Never thought much of Whyte and I've a feeling he is not able for it anymore.

walshb

I think Usyk's performance is getting a tad overrated. He won, yes, but AJ was competitive for a fair bit. It should not be a surprise at all if AK could close the gap in fight 2.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009932#Comment_118009932

To be fair to AJ he hit Usyk plenty of times he wasn't finding it impossible to get to him , it was just when he was happy to land one shot & then try to get out,

He needs to land combinations & when he hurts him don't let him off the hook, The big problem is that means getting hit & expanding more energy ,

I think he will come in at a similar weight but just be more aggressive be prepared to throw more than one shot when in range, AJ done quite well at stages positioning wise & putting Usyk where he wanted him up but just never let more than one shot go , He needs to let his hands go more but still be smart about setting it up,

Boxer at all weights tend to get into a position to throw shots & with muscle memory straight away step & circle out of range to safety & you can't play that game with Usyk when he is quicker & more agile than you ( its only the real the real good ones feel safe still in range) , AJ being the bigger stronger man needs to find position fire of 2 or 3 shots & hold his ground & fire again obviously not all the time but more often than fight 1 ., There is a lot more nuance to it but you know what I'm getting at

Ruiz 1 has made AJ panic in range & stiffen up which sucks the gas out of him , he needs to have a training camp that puts him there often & makes him uncomfortable there as often as possible so it become comfortable ,

I just don't think he has it in him anymore to pull it off ,

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010112#Comment_118010112

Absolutely. After 8/9 rounds they were dead level. Joshua could well have chosen that moment to go for broke or to put the foot down but he didn’t. The last 4 rounds put the real daylight between them so up until then it was very close. The 11th and 12th made the real difference. AJ tried not to lose and Usyk went and won it. I wouldn’t get too bogged down in weight or anything else if he arrives in the same condition next night he could well win it with slightly improved tactics or listening to his corner better. He’s meant to be back in the gym so the hunger would appear to be back. Usyk produced one hell of a performance, can he be as good again? It’s so different to Fury and Wilder. Wilder was at a disadvantage in so many ways whereas Joshua has advantages that he can definately make count. He can also improve on many ways without a complete overhaul being required. He will have many chances during the fight to win or change it as he’s not in with a monster that is likely to ko him inside 3 rounds.

walshb

Pretty much everything I would have said.....

Mantis Toboggan

Joshua has all the tools to beat Usyk just needs to come with a better game plan and mindset.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010101#Comment_118010101

I think you have thrown away a tenner

Wallins record is skewed by a performance with Fury, a fight which I'd say Fury didnlittle prep for

He's got a pretty poor Amateur record, losing more than 1 in every 3 fights.

His pro record is marked with a fight with Fury and a long drawn out fight with a fighter that Wilder KO'd in 1 and AJ in 7 with Dominic Breazle being his "best" win

I think he's out of there inside 8. Whyte isn't a world champion but he can bang

blade1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010308#Comment_118010308

Have to lose one sometime I suppose.

I don't think much of either fighter.

Maybe Whyte's record being skewed by the Povetkin win.

A prime Fury would wipe the floor with both.

Threw a tenner on to try and stir some bit of interest in it.

Mantis Toboggan

That's a good interview with Fury and Bruno on youtube from a few weeks ago.