Meantime while this has all been going on,another bit of firearms legislation was slipped under the radar.

SI 283 2021.

Signed into law by Heather Humphries June 9th . Not too much to panic about folks...It's dealing with the marking of firearms component parts and the font size and putting a metal ID plate onto polymer frames of firearms.Its just them translating further Furher Befelhe..Er..EU directives into Irish law.😡

Point is; This is apparently how govt likes to conduct business without mentioning this to any parties affected or concerned. I only spotted this by a browse past SCOVI's FB page.

Marian Harkin is retired ASFIK. Dunno about the others, I believe NASRPC is planning on doing something along the same lines.

However, a better suggestion might be to fast track this process and get a delegation to go and talk to the minister about this ourselves? I already made contact with one of my TDs who is only too happy to make an approach and introduction to the minister to get the ball rolling?

Think what's more important at this point is to put together a strategy and plan as to what we expect and will get, or not out of such a meeting?

"If figures around gun ownership in Ireland are correct, it seems an extraordinarily high number," she said. 

If and seems, how is this waffle allowed to be printed, I also take umbradge with legal and illegal firearms being lumped into the one. We are not the one sows' pigs!

^THIS^

Might be worth sending such facts and figures to this silly woman and also to "De examiner" as a mention that using old out of date statistics just makes them look like complete edjits.

A good growl from the sleeping bear,might be good advice to leave us alone and out of it?

Unfortunately it doesn't make them look like eejits since they control the narrative it stands as fact. Yer average Joe isn't going to check facts, people died, guns bad and the realm of criminals/oddball survivalists/hunters and we know hunting is bad. Sure wasn't I only out trespassing the other day in a forest and some lad came out of the trees with a gun!!! Doesn't matter that he paid the state to be there and I shouldn't have been, he had a GUN!

There is no sleeping bear, we'll be brought into the sculling gate one at a time.

Also, very good article in yesterday's Sunday times by Breda Power about the recent murder suicides with firearms, it's behind a paywall,

Right click the whole article,bar the pics if any. Click copy and post .Found that's one way of spreading a paywalled article.

18th September 2015 Statement Minister Fitzgerald announces changes to Firearms Licensing:

“Immediate cap on licensing of any new centre-fire semi-automatic rifles

 The Minister intends to introduce an immediate temporary cap on the licensing of any new centre-fire semi-automatic rifles pending the establishment and determination of the Authority.”

Which has been impossible to do up to now as there was no legislation to the act,that's why they are working away at it while we are snoozing.

Now I see no evidence of the formation of the Authority which is pivotal in protecting our sport, outside of the emotion of the moment.

The Firearms Arbitration Appeals Authority...Supposed to be another stop between refusal and going to the Dist court, where the AGS lost 95% of the time. Quite frankly, might as well forget about it, as all it would be ie another cost layer and delay tactic to the license applicant. Staffed no doubt by ex Garda Supers and bureaucratic anti-gun Hollywood educated donkeys, without one person from the shooting orgs involved or consulted. Do you want that kind of people deciding on what kind of firearm is suitable for us to own? While a bit more costly and intimidating, direct access to the judicial system is IMO a better and quicker approach.

In relation to the implementation of changes to the primary firearms legislation the DOJ and the minister habitually tag it onto other legislation as was evident from the significant changes made in the Criminal Justice Acts in 2006!!! So unfortunately this change could come at any time.

If you read the above-posted letter. You are correct, it is being tacked onto the CJA act 2021. And this is a point we should lobby on as well. The proposed contents are in relation to carrying knives, not on banning firearms. So this point needs to be raised by someone on our side. Why is this being kept sthum and only the aforementioned being part of the proposed amendment on the Dail proposal paper?

Significant sports like Classic Rifle including M1 Garand and M1 Carbine Sports are such that individuals have invested heavily in these classic firearms, such a pity that it will be an all-out ban, some 9mm carbines appearing on the scene in gallery rifle open events, what of their future. Sounds to me like the National competitions will be the worst hit and the National Associations needs to get more vocal and politically motivated.

^THIS^ In all fairness there has been only 5 years of time wasted to tackle this issue,but it seems to have been a "let sleeping dogs lie,and hope it will go away!" attitude,or outright denial of the fact that this was eventually going to erupt. So now it behoves the organisations to actually go and confront this head on.NARSPC finally is moving on the issue and has apparently already told the more Fuddish elements who were in "nothing to do with us!" that it DOES concern them very much now. So all that can be done is a concerted effort to challenge this politically and maybe point out to Fianna Failure that after their last think in this weekend gone that going and riling up people who contribute 6million to the economy isn't going to do them any good at the door and at the polls.

On a more concerning note I have heard of reports of AGS making unscheduled and unannounced visits to .22 pistol owners, examining magazines to ensure they are 5 shot compliant, where they are not apparently they are seizing all the person's firearm's, many reports out of the Balbriggan district and apparently starting in Wicklow also. What a complete waste of Garda resources, imagine Firearms Officers who are usually community-based being diverted nationwide to see if an individuals magazine is restricted to 5 shots and of course I wouldn't mind the chap in Balbriggan taking all firearms if he found a 10 shot pistol mag, clearly unaware of the legislation that states modified before use, purchase and possession of a 10 shot pistol magazine is not prohibited and certainly not unlawful. What part of the firearms legislation allows them to take such drastic action is beyond me!

Back to the good old days of intimidation and criminalising the lawful individuals!!!

Which they can do under law. However, it sounds like there is more to this tale than is being told?ESP the part underlined?

Think that's been changed?I could be wrong,but ASFIK if the article is quoted in full along with the journalist who wrote it is given full credit,and it's not used for commercial purposes it's not considered copyright infringement? Think there was something in 2012 with the rape crisis centre that blew this up? Or is it the hyperlinks to the article are OK?🤔

"From Yubabill"

"To get in front of the committee we must compile a list of TD's and write to them;

Marian Harkin

Matt Carthy

Sean Fleming

Sean O'Fearghail

FG guy S Kildare

Ivana Bacik (someone on here has her ear, don't know who but please come forward).

Anyone else, open to suggestions."

We'd really have to include the Healy Rea's.

Just to address some of the points I've read in this thread and how best we can oppose this new legislation.

1. We need to treat all gun control and attempted gun control as an attack on our sport, even if that doesn't directly affect our respective disciplines. It really does seem like this is taking on the 'slippery slope' approach, first cf pistols, then cf magazines now cf sa rifles, next what? And that is the question we need to be asking. It may only be 40 odd licences being revoked but it won't stop there, someone mentioned that .22lr pistols would be reviewed if there was in increase in licencing. So naturally the gun community would have to form a united front against all gun control, not just an attitude of 'ah well, I got my AR in 2010, that doesn't affect me". What if they come for your rifle next?
2. We need to form an organization that actually cares about preserving cf sa shooting. Think of the Firearms Policy Coalition in the US and how more effective they were than the NRA. There is clearly far too much bad blood between all the shooting orgs that have rendered them ineffective and people in this thread clearly recognize that. To those people, complaining isn't going to get you far, leaving those orgs and not paying subs/fees is the only thing that is going to hurt them.
3. Regarding the aims of former minister Frances Fitzgerald, "The Minister intends to introduce an immediate temporary cap on the licensing of any new centre-fire semi-automatic rifles pending the establishment and determination of the Authority". I don't have a legal background or anything, but surely this 6 year late ban is dubious at best, certainly for an immediate and temporary cap. The only realistic way this ban will be reversed is if the government has to put it's hand in it's pocket, which isn't going to be the best PR in the middle of a housing crisis.
4. It's no secret that the public aren't going to be sympathetic to our cause, so I think the best approach would be to send off letters and emails to certain sympathetic TDs. At the end of the day, the TDs are the only ones who can stop this bill from passing.

That's just my ill informed 2 cents anyway, criticism and feedback welcome.

It's been six years and several ministers since this ban was posited. We were consulted before this was formulated, we deserve to be consulted again before this goes to legislation, in the name of democracy; and we have seen a diminution of democracy in the last year and a half, so it's time it was rehabilitated.

The difference between then and now was that it was a desperate move by the then very desperate firearms staff of AGS to throw Sht on everything and hope some it sticks to the Irish gun owner. Remember they were going after pump and semi shotguns, handguns and anything else possible. So they brought all the shooting orgs down upon themselves and opened a whole 12 pak of worm cans on the whole issue of PULSE, how licenses etc were handled. In fact,it was how the SC[ovI]] came about and for once it pretty much briefly united the Irish shooting scene. NOW, this is a nibble that only affects a "tiny minority" of the shooting scene, but has the potential to kill off the growth of three disciplines and one branch of shooting. So can we mobilise the same sort of response that we had in 2016 on this one issue? Remembering of course that the largest organisation of gun owners here [IFA] actively stated that they saw no reason for handguns or SA CF in civilian hands.

A priority is that we need to talk to the Justice Committee as before; we must question the relevance of the stated ban in light of the lack of the FAAA; we need more info on the pattern of S/a c/f licensing prior to 2015 in order to see if there is a pattern of proliferation;

It's if I remember the excellent job done by Sparks here in his pie chart at the time from PULSE figures 0.00001% increase in licenses pre 2015,[was like 140?] and was the same sort of statistic for crimes in which legally held SACF were used in crime. So could a better math genius than me work out with the official figures of 39 new licenses going by OFFICAL figures is in an increase since then?

we must question whether/if we are being treated proportionately by legislation and whether/if authorities are trying to marginalise us (banning lead ammo while exempting AGS and army/hiding firearms when travelling/banning categories of firearms such as c/f s/a etc., etc.); we must state again our case for c/f s/a rifles.

Part of the above is proposed EU legislation[IE the armed forces /police having an exemption].That's mostly to do with the Govts being held responsible for having to de pollute vast tracts of military and police ranges and training grounds of lead in the soil.

But you do have a point,and there are a few things WE need to discuss with the govt about THEIR responsibilities under EU legislation to us. Like how about them providing a proof house,as they are supposed to do under EU legislation to test and approve any firearms for non-lead shot?

As we cant send them to the UK anymore for proof as the UK is no longer in the EU. Nor can we deact firearms to EU standards without a proof house here, and it is a costly and vexatious process to ship them to Germany or Belgium, etc. This is like demanding an NCT for Ireland, but the NCT centre is in France.

Also, with their legislation of allowing gun dealers to be gunsmiths and having no proof of proper quality work done on a firearm, or one being built properly. The govt is leaving itself wide open to litigation,if one of these Irish made guns causes an accident,as they certified some dealer as a gunsmith under their own law. Nor bTW can you legally sell the gun on if you had one made for yourself either in Ireland or the EU,as it is not in proof.

So yeah as Mehole Martin said lets look at the firearms laws and let's see where the Irish govt is falling down too on their responsibilities, as it might be quite expensive too for them as well.

send your submission to Justice@oireachtas.ie

and individually to all those members on the Justice committee

Deputies

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

Fine Gael

Patrick Costello

Green Party

Michael Creed

Fine Gael

Pa Daly

Sinn Féin

Brendan Howlin

Labour Party

Martin Kenny

Sinn Féin

James Lawless - Chair

Fianna Fáil

Thomas Pringle

Independent

Niamh Smyth

Fianna Fáil

But always remember the one among you who started this little sh&t show.

Leave others to fight the battle,

you want any of this stuff in the future, fight your battle now and put your submission into justice@oireachtas.ie otherwise stay like the rest and keyboardwarrior on dude

"First they came for the sa cf, but I did not speak out, for I did not own one. Then they came for the 22 pistols, but I did not speak out, for I did not own one. Then they came for my guns, but there was no one left to speak out for me".

I hate to sound cliche, but that's the case. You say how there was a time that you would have been lucky to have a 22lr or s/s, well do you want to return to those times because that's where we're headed. Our sport is under attack, will you turn and run or stand and fight? The choice is yours, just remember the dire costs for inaction.

Was it you do who had Willie ask those cracking questions in the house, well formed my friend only one answer yes we are planning legislation to ban the CF's. Oh my we need more questions like that to poke the sleeping bear!!

I was one of those centrefire pistol owners. We're you? What point did "we" miss?

As I said, I don't have a c/f s/a rifle, I don't want one, and I'll add for clarification, I don't mind if you have one or want one. But my opinion doesn't really count does it.

Sorry CASS it was not the fact that questions were asked but just the nature of them, in my line of business a YES/NO question of open to only a yes or a no, I was not implying that questions should not be asked, just saying they could have been worded better! did you see the questions as they were asked and the answers could only be one answer...... Don't get me wrong and apologies if the content came over wrong!

I'm sorry...Are you being sarcastic in the last bit? Or your whole reply is supposed to be sarcasm?🤔

Sorry CASS it was not the fact that questions were asked but just the nature of them, in my line of business a YES/NO question of open to only a yes or a no, I was not implying that questions should not be asked, just saying they could have been worded better! did you see the questions as they were asked and the answers could only be one answer...... Don't get me wrong and apologies if the content came over wrong!

Well seeing not all of us do not have your either legal[?] or political [?]training or professional ability, I have to make do with what I have, and seeing that there wasn't anyone to hand to form them in a yes-no and flowery legal or political language, this is what we have, and if you are volunteering your services in either field...Please PM me as we always welcome extra-legal or political counsel on the team. Seriously! And you missed one thing the questions we asked were in a written reply, not the ones asked verbally in the Dail...😉

Has anyone asked the representatives who were supposed to represent the shooting interest at the FCP these questions. Maybe they were discussed and nobody reported it! Seems like the flow of information is seriously lacking!