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Revoking of SACF rifles & New Legislation (thread banned users in first post)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Abbreviation for As Far As I Know.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    And then some!!! I don't think anyone in the shooting community even knows who is supposed to be on this panel representing whom anymore.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ smmember20




  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭ BSA International


    The .22 pistol case apparently has a bit more to it but that may not be true considering how things get "legs". Nargc funded this too afaik.


    There was case to high court for a .308 rifle, funded by nargc apparently, long before pistols ever came on the scene.


    One of those who organised the practical circus denied to me it ever happened. A buddy of mine was there and he reckoned it was sheer lunacy.


    My comment re army was "some" not s/a rifles. Steyr AUG has s/a & full auto 😀 I was referring to some "high power" rifles out there in ranges.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    The .22 pistol case apparently has a bit more to it but that may not be true considering how things get "legs". Nargc funded this too afaik.

    If I rightly recall,it was the NARGCs lawyer that handled the HC cases of the 22 mag capacity in one batch. Not sure if NARGC did fund this or was it "pay and pray" by the individuals as this was post the CF pistol ban.

    There was case to high court for a .308 rifle, funded by nargc apparently, long before pistols ever came on the scene.

    Think it was for something in the Safari calibre? And it was aSFIK the same guy who went for the pistol.Don't think there was even much of a time difference either?4/5 months maybe?But I certainly remember pistols being the biggie.

    One of those who organised the practical circus denied to me it ever happened. A buddy of mine was there and he reckoned it was sheer lunacy.

    It certainly happened alright! 😣Too many witnesses to say otherwise apprently.Not surprised either TBH,the CF pistol thing went from 0 to 1200 applications within 12 months.No no wonder AGS was desperately looking for a brake. And I think this is what they have expected to have happened here with the semi rifles post the Limerick DC cases.Its not happened at all as quite frankly,they arent that pouplar in the shooting fraternity in Ireland going by the Depts own official figures on licensing of them.So why was there now such a panic to close this down?is this this minister for state to the Dept way of trying to make a political name for himself I wonder? Shall we take bets that this is the case?😡

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭ BSA International


    The original large calibre case was for a .308. Nicholas Flood, a multi European silhoeutte shooter (met him a few times he's a gentleman) took the case with afaik nargc backing.


    This ban is defo some politician/s on a crusade to save the masses from us crazed and armed lunatics 😞 or to deflect attention from more of their skulduggery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ smmember20


    Smoke and mirrors by AGS on the 1200 licensed pistols in one year, they managed to shock the politicians by way of deception really, where did the 1200 applications come from in 2004? The majority were not new applicants but came from three sources 1) Pistol owners who had their pistols seized in 1972 and taking opportunity to license their property, some people had multiple pistols in Garda Storage 2) Folks like myself who had for many years licensed pistols and competed out side the state, again I am aware that the folks I knew on the circuit of international shoots would have had ownership of sever pistols and 3) yes new folks who never owned a pistol before.

    So as everyone is aware each firearm needs and individual certificate, so that 1,200 licensed pistols sounded scary and AGS certainly used that in their favour to scare the **it out of the politicians and more importantly the officials in the permanent government.

    How many individuals would that equate to who were licensed probably less than 700, you may recollect that at the Justice Committee chaired by Staunton, the AGS were caught with their pants down when they reported 1,800 firearms stolen in 3 years, a statistical manipulation that was exposed as fallacy.

    In any case all water under the bridge, but the natives are going back to their old ways and we are certainly seeing evidence of the pre 2015 AGS poor application of the firearms legislation increasing in court cases! Now unfortunately we do not have an NARGC there to stand up to the buggers so it will be open season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭ jb88


    So CASS are you aware that one among your group brought this to the attention of the Govt?

    This proposal being well read amongst many at the moment, is the agenda of a boards member looking to gain personal influence. These firearms were never a problem to any, havent caused any issues. This is like plastic straws, an easy fix by legislation, the problem is thats an erosion of shooting sports in Ireland and internationally for no good reason other than an electioneering platform.


    I dont see the shooting community standing up for an erosion of the sport, except the backing fb group of the person responsible. When are you going to learn, everything on this forum is read by the DOJ and by many others who have no idea about shooting. They take everything out of context.

    When shooters have an issue, want some group formed to help. (Laziness)

    You want a say, put in your own submission to the DOJ, then if its passed go to the Highcourt and on to the EU court.

    If you want shooters to have one in the future submit directly to the DOJ if not bury the head in the sand, seems thats the done thing these days



  • Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭ jb88


    I like many others want CF semi auto rifles as a Target shooting sport to continue in Ireland and I will continue to fight for it with a few dedicated friends

    If you want to join so be it, make your submission to the Justice committee.

    I dont want to be one of a few guys left competing in 10 or 15 years time because some ill advised politician wanted a law passed which did nothing for the sporting community of Ireland, other than harm it.

    With a handful of new entrants each year, its extremely self selective.

    If the only reason is that it is big and black in colour and could fall into the hands of a criminal, then I welcome the test to see if that would work on my own equipment, especially as its stored seperately and cant be used if robbed.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    jb88 - So CASS are you aware that one among your group brought this to the attention of the Govt?

    There is the problem right there, "your group". I don't have a group and you already set yourself apart from others. Instead of standing with others you are determined to do this alone and suggest others do the same.

    jb88 -  is the agenda of a boards member looking to gain personal influence.

    This is one of the funniest things I've read. You believe a single person, who you seem to skirt around naming, can influece the DoJ in such a way as to manipulate legislation to their own benefit? The NASRPC tried that as a organisation with pistols and failed badly and they have thousands of members, their own NGB, and a seat on the FCP not to mention the SSAI.

    jb88 -  except the backing fb group of the person responsible.

    So you're talking about Grizzly 45!. That is easy enough found out. @Grizzly 45 what have you promised to the DoJ so they give you full control over SACF rifles? What advantages has the FUNI FB page been granted in this legislation that others will not get? What have you been able to "give" the DoJ in exchange for these beenfits? Lastly how did you manage to stop legislators from simply taking what they want via legislative means?

    jb88 - When are you going to learn, everything on this forum is read by the DOJ and by many others who have no idea about shooting.

    Maybe about 11 years ago, before you joined, when they told us [the Mods] outright that they do. This is no secret and its why the forum rules are designed the way they are.

    jb88 - ......... if not bury the head in the sand, seems thats the done thing these days.

    You are taking the absolute piss now. For 6 years you have scolded, berrated, and accused people that gave out warnings to potential newcomers, ,of such a ban as scaremongering. I'll retrieve all the posts if you like. Now you claim that others are living wih their head in the sand when you yourself have being doing that very thing.

    I said the blame game helps nobody, but there is no way I'm letting you accuse others of having their head in the sand when you were the first to do so and last to come up for air which shows one of two things:

    • You geninuely believed nothing would happen in which case you're a hypocrite for accusing others of the very thing you've been doing
    • You knew it would happen but suggested people "Just go out and get one" regardless, which was reckless, a lie, and may potentially cost people thousands.

    jb88 - I like many others want CF semi auto rifles as a Target shooting sport to continue in Ireland and I will continue to fight for it with a few dedicated friends

    Then why the denial for the last 6 years? Why wait for this moment to "make your move" and not before hand? Why lie to others about the ban and then claim to want to fight it? Why try "go it alone" seeing as there are so few and a united front even of just SACF rifle owners would be better than individual opposition letters?

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    So you're talking about Grizzly 45!. That is easy enough found out. @Grizzly 45 what have you promised to the DoJ so they give you full control over SACF rifles? What advantages has the FUNI FB page been granted in this legislation that others will not get? What have you been able to "give" the DoJ in exchange for these benefits? Lastly how did you manage to stop legislators from simply taking what they want via legislative means?

    Ab solutely NOTHING!!! From the DOJ, didn't even get a cuppa when I met them in Dec2019,by myself when all the others organisations and keyboard warriors were absent with the mag ban. Absolutely NOTHING!!! gaining anything in legislation either!!!

    In fact ABsolutely NOTHING to any and all of that. Seriously wish I had that sort of influence as this would be done and dusted a long time ago, with us having both CF pistols back and SA CF available. Anyone who thinks I have that sort of influence...Seriously, what colour is the sky on the planet you are on??

    But unlike some who came late to this party.I think people know my reputation here and the fact that I've put my mouth where my money is and stood up to bat when it counted. So I really haven't got time anymore to stop and throw stones at every little yapping street mongrel with a problem.

    <MOD SNIP>

    Post edited by Cass on

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ smmember20


    So it would be fair to say you were doing a "solo run" proportion to represent a body FNU that actually only has you as the only Irish member! No wonder you didn't get a cup of tea and I doubt it you will get any further meetings for sure. You did say am I wrong that you met them by yourself! Jesus you could have said anything!



  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2


    False premise there smmember20, he is far from the only Irish member of FUN.

    I actually joined and paid membership dues during one of the "debates" you were having with other members regarding SCOVI. 🤣


    Also, regardless of the numbers of members of an org, if they do bugger all then what use are they?

    FPC over in the US have gotten a lot more pro-firearms cases won than the NRA, and yet the NRA has a much more vast membership.

    Which would I sign up for?

    The one that gets the job done, same as here.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ smmember20


    Humble apologies to all members of FNU Irish Branch, as a member no doubt you received minutes from the DOJ meeting!



  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2


    As SCOVI members did of the CF pistol substitution stuff, right? 🙄

    Also read the post, it's FUN, not FNU 😋


    And in fact Grizz actually posted up on boards with the results of the meeting at the time.

    You should remember, you were the one disparaging the meeting then too as I recall...

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ smmember20


    Only joined boards in February so it would have been hard for me to be "disparaging" back in 2019 when the meeting took place, it is not my intention to have a row with anyone each to their own but I am very surprised at an individual who proports to represent shooters giving such misguided advice to folks who are asked by their FO to inspect their firearms! There you go so what exactly is FUN doing about the potential ban on CF S/A rifles in Ireland?



  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2


    And it would be completely impossible for the mag ban to come up since February and for you to weigh in then?

    This audit rubbish is just the latest fishing expedition to try and hang shooters out to dry, hence unless you are obliged to comply then my attitude is why would you?


    Irish shooting sports would be nowhere without some resistance to the PTB and their overall goal of as few firearms as is possible.


    And as Grizzly already mentioned, seeking a meeting with the DoJ and minister involved.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ smmember20


    Sounds like a great plan of action. Best of luck with it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭ BSA International


    They can only "hang you out to dry" if you give them a reason to.


    I know one lad who refused a reasonable request relating to his firearms. Next day the ERU called to seize his firearms. Good luck with your "resistence".



  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2


    And what was the "reasonable request" he refused eh?


    Had I not stood up to the FO and CS before now I would've been fobbed off with a 12g and a 22 and little else.

    There is a difference between refusing outright and having a lot of questions about a new, invasive, unnecessary and arbitrary process which will do exactly zero to prevent crime, and only serves to further persecute firearms owners.

    Hence all my questions above about the legal basis for same.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



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  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭ BSA International


    There was a vexatious report made about him. He was asked to drop them into his local dealer while they looked into it.


    Stood up to Gardai more than once myself but you gotta pick your "fights".



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Indeed they did...It was posted here Dec 4th 2020... And its FUNI,do try and keep up!

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ smmember20




  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2


    I'd certainly agree with picking the fights, but on the 22 mag cap one now I'd be extremely hesitant given the hazy basis they doing this on.


    On the vexatious report, lovely. Our own version of red flag laws, aka guilty until proven innocent.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Moderator Note


    Lads we seem to be cross thread posting here, I think, but lets try keep both topics to their own threads otherwise it'll turn into a mess on both threads.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2


    Cass would it be possible to split out the discussion on the 22 revolver thread about the "audits" into a new thread, for better visibility of this latest event if nothing else?

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    We are all eyes and ears to the saviours amongst us who will lead us to the land of milk and honey and semi-autos. I'm and FUNI is obviously doing this completely wrong to the ditch hurlers and keyboard warriors...So lets hear your master plan Hotshots?? And BTW what are YOUR qualifications or mandate to suggest anything either?

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    It must really boil some peoples urine, still,that I a nobody,[with the backing of an EU recognised lobby group] went and got more information than some established organisations did with all their committees, elected reps and membership and purported mandates and all the rest,by simply asking to meet a govt body via 3 emails and a phone call and had the AUDACITY to publish what happened. It must have been like the little dog in the Wizard of Oz, who pulled away the curtain to expose "Oz the great and terrible",as a little man with a machine and great sound effects and no magical power.

    Well maybe if those with "mandates" and representation, had been DOING THEIR JOBS in2017/20 and involved themselves in dialogue with the DOJ, as they only had about 3 years warning since FUNI was reporting about this mag ban almost weekly from Brussels here on boards that this was an inevitability,and me even warning a current member of the NASRPC committee that I know that this was going to be a problem, but that the EU was leaving it open on how member states implemented it,and as there was no opposition to this, the DOJ took the easiest course obviously because no one from the main lobby groups engaged on this issue.

    I wouldn't have had to have gone there in the first place! But you know what I'm GLAD it still rankles under some peoples hides as it obviously does . Maybe too they should consider this as a warning from newer and more vocal groups coming up. If you aren't doing what you are supposed to do in representation and being vigilant to attacks on the sport and keep rolling over and acquiescing to every Govt diktat. Don't be surprised if individuals and others start forming or joining other more vocal and progressive groups. People with glasshouse and chucking stones spring to mind.

    And guess what sweethearts? We are NOT going away either...So get used to us being around. We'll gladly help and cooperate with ANYONE who has the same ideals and aims of securing gun ownership of ANY kind here in Ireland. There is no idea of us making money from FUNI. Or some "personal enrichment / political power" as some accused me of here, or trying to be King of the Hill or whatever. We are here to do one thing only Mission statement "Prevent as much as possible further gun bans or restrictive laws from being enacted national and EU wide." The END.

    If you like that, then welcome,if not you are part of the problem and get out of the way.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Done. New thread here. Some posts might belong in both threads but with the new system I haven't figured out how to duplicate posts and split one out into a new thread so apologies in advance to anyone that thinks their post belongs in the main thread.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ smmember20


    Well I will bow to your superior actions as you seem to have the solution in regards to solving the wrongs of the last 50 years of oppressions of lawful ownership of firearms, I don't have any master plan or solutions, if there were acceptable solutions greater minds than mine would have come up with them over the last 30 years. Unfortunately we are in a society where our worst enemies are ourselves, the infighting, the backbiting the bitching, the aggression, (OMG and in the main all the people involved in the infighting are legally entitled to hold firearms!) there is no hope for unity among the shooting community in Ireland and without it there is little possibility of defeating the constant chipping away at legitimate firearms ownership.

    In fairness we do not have it so bad since 2004 when we got back our pistols and larger caliber rifles, we have three year licenses, we have regulated rifle and pistol ranges to shoot in and with the regulation of ranges we can say we are no danger to the public as DOJ certify the ranges and AGS certify them, look to places like UK, Australia, New Zealand where sporting use of firearms have been destroyed in the interest of public safety............yea for course that works doesn't it.

    No I am sorry I do not believe we have a hells chance of stopping future restrictions for all of the above reasons, even in the threads that I have been posting in there is such venom and realistically we are really all on the same page. So there you have it

    Rich for you of course asking about mandate and qualifications, where did you get your mandate to go into the DOJ what is the membership of FUNI, I can ask and you can answer if you wish or can, I do not proport to represent anyone only my own views, maybe I am a grumpy old man (my wife calls me Victor) but then I have been involved in shooting sports since I was 17 and I am now 64, maybe that gives me some creditability and of course as in all walks of life freedom of speech and the right to express ones opinion is a right I value.



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