Revoking of SACF rifles & New Legislation (thread banned users in first post)

jb88 · 21-06-2021 12:38pm

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Just another thought about compensation that's related to CF SA. If the government banned all CF SA "loading devices" over 10 rounds, shouldn't they have had to pay compensation? If so, could this be an argument that CF SA magazines aren't restricted because there's no definition of loading device and since the government didn't offer compensation, then they mustn't have banned such magazines? Maybe I'm overlooking something, but this seems like a situation of ownership vs possession.

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BattleCorp · 30-08-2021 2:31pm

This thread is about to get a lot busier in the very near future.

The PTB are 100% intent on going after semi-auto centrefires granted after September 2015.

There were two questions asked in the Dail on 27th July 2021 regarding semi-auto centrefires. They were Questions 1385 and 1388.

Seeing as I've often been questioned regarding my sources in the past, here's the link to show I'm not making stuff up.

Proposed Legislation – Tuesday, 27 Jul 2021 – Parliamentary Questions (33rd Dáil) – Houses of the Oireachtas

Deputy Martin Kenny asked the Minister for Justice when the proposed legislation on restriction of licencing of centre fire semi-automatic rifles will be introduced and he also asked if existing licence holders will be allowed to retain their licence for centrefire semi-automatic rifles under the proposed new legislation. Below is the answer.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1385 and 1388 together.

As you may be aware, in 2015, the then Minister for Justice, Frances Fitzgerald, T.D., announced plans to implement a number of changes to Firearms Licensing, including restrictions on the licensing of any new centre-fire semi-automatic rifles. I am sure the Deputy will agree that these are potentially very dangerous weapons in the wrong hands.

This remains settled policy and it is my intention to legislate to introduce restrictions on the licensing of centre-fire semi-automatic rifles, including the revocation of licenses issued after 18 September 2015, as flagged at the time.

People who have obtained licences since the 2015 announcement have been advised the licences will be revoked when the legislative ban is introduced. Any licence issued after the announcement to introduce a curtailment on the licencing of these firearms will be revoked following the enactment of the legislation.

My Department has also engaged with Registered Firearms Dealers to monitor the number of these firearms imported and to advise the dealers that any firearms brought into the State that do not have a firearms license associated with them dated prior to 18 September 2015 will become unlicensable when the new legislation is introduced. As the Deputy may also be aware, a similar process applied when restrictions were introduced for the licensing of centre-fire handguns.

The proposed legislation referred to by the Deputy forms part of the General Scheme of a Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2020. The General Scheme for this Bill was approved by Government in September 2020. It was referred to the Justice Committee for Pre–Legislative Scrutiny in January and I await the views of the Committee in due course. It is my intention to progress this General Scheme and to publish the required Bill at an early date, as other priorities in my Department’s legislative programme may allow.

Judging from that reply, it doesn't look like they are intending on grandfathering any licences issued since 18th September 2015. I reckon we have a serious fight on our hands.

Cass · 30-08-2021 7:54pm

Its been coming. The Government may be slow to act at times, but they usually never forget.

The grandfathering thing is a problem and one I hope lads after 2015 will fight and win. The pistol bn was similar but also very different in that it was in reaction to a criminal using an illegal weapon to kill an innocent (Shane Geoghahan) and the legislation followed within 7 months of the declaration. This debacle has been ongoing for going on 6 years so there is a strong case to fight for grandfathering.

They will use the "we told you it was coming" excuse and frankly they may win that (actually they don't have to win as the law is on their side so it'll necessary for the shooting bodies to win). They seem to have the bit between their teeth now and if not for Covid it might already be a thing so expect ructions next year.

Grizzly 45 · 30-08-2021 9:17pm

Going to be an intresting Autumn...Again...

And can see another great clanger with this straight off...What happens if you want to substitute on a pre 15 license?Are we going to do this dodgy "legal loophole" like with the CF handguns???

Cass · 30-08-2021 9:24pm

Yeah, this bill will not be a single issue bill. Expect crap from all sides.

BSA International · 31-08-2021 2:27am

Here we go again .......... another nail in the coffin for our sport.

judestynes · 31-08-2021 9:56am

So are they likely to just be collected after licenses have been revoked or can they be left with RFD's and sold to new owners outside the state?

jb88 · 31-08-2021 10:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116488993#Comment_116488993

You only lose what you dont fight for via the courts if necessary.

BattleCorp · 31-08-2021 10:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117826477#Comment_117826477

At best, I'd hope that they will be grandfathered, but it doesn't look like that is going to be the case. If the authorities grandfathered all the ones that are currently licensed, that would be the best option for those who have those firearms and would also give the authorities the least amount of headaches as they'd have no court cases to fight etc.

At worst, I would expect the State to adequately compensate me for the cost of my firearm, which was by no means a cheap gun. And will they compensate me for the accessories that probably add up to over a thousand euro too?

I wouldn't expect things to go smoothly for the authorities. I expect there will be court cases and maybe more court cases because it's a bit ridiculous to allow someone to have a firearm for six or seven years and then swipe it back off them.

But to answer your question, I would assume (a dangerous thing to do) that you can sell it overseas. But that won't be easy either, and financially doing that probably wouldn't make sense given that these guns are far more expensive here than they are in the likes of the US or Europe for example. A gun that is €5k here is often well less than half that in the States.

judestynes · 31-08-2021 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117826561#Comment_117826561

I can't believe this is happening, mine has only just been renewed, 3 months late but better late than never. I know selling your rifle to an over seas owner is not the best solution and your unlikely to get back what you put in but still better than the big fat 0 the state will offer plus it will go to a new owner who will care about it.

BattleCorp · 31-08-2021 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117826816#Comment_117826816

I'd much rather keep my firearm. Selling it overseas isn't an option because you'd get fcukall for it compared to what we paid for it.

I think it might be a case of telling the authorities 'see you in court'.

Cass · 31-08-2021 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117826477#Comment_117826477

If your license is revoked the firearm remains your property, I discussed this in another thread and how it is different to licensing, so you can store it in an RFD and I'd assume the PTB would seek proof it has been stored.

Cass · 31-08-2021 11:52am

Battlecorp - At worst, I would expect the State to adequately compensate me for the cost of my firearm, which was by no means a cheap gun. And will they compensate me for the accessories that probably add up to over a thousand euro too?

Going to play Devil's advocate here so don't shoot the messenger. Compensation would not be a required function of any forthcoming ban for two reasons:

The firearm is still your property, they're not taking it from you only removing your ability to possess it via refusing a license.
The "warning" from September 2015 made it clear that any license after that date would be revoked so they will say you had 6 years to either not license one or sell it. Now I know the time frame of 6 years is "fluid" as its ongoing but you get the idea. You were adequately warned.

Battlecorp - I wouldn't expect things to go smoothly for the authorities. I expect there will be court cases and maybe more court cases because it's a bit ridiculous to allow someone to have a firearm for six or seven years and then swipe it back off them.

Absolutely. Your biggest hurdle will be the "warning" about the introduction of future legislation, but on your side will be a ban via Dáil statement is not a ban, and the excessively long time between the statement and introduction of legislation. You could argue that if a Minster, in the future, wanted to ban any firearm without legislation they could simply keep making Dáil statements with no "end date" and any person licensing one after the statement runs the risk of having it revoked. This is illegal and is what has happened. Covid can explain the last 18 months but not the preceding 54 months.

Grizzly 45 · 31-08-2021 2:28pm

Some facts &figures from the DOJ in a written reply to these questions have now been asked by 3 TDs.Two written and one on the Dail floor.

The lad who gave those replies is BTW NOT the current minister for Justice but the minister for state at the Dept of Justice, James Browne TD. Former barrister and Wexford countisticy...A part of our land that I believe has THE biggest gun ownership population in the 26?

According to DOJ figures in this reply ...

Between 2015 and 2021 there have been 38 licenses issued. 2015[3] 2016 [0] 2017 [5] 2018 [13] 2019 [7] 2020 [7] 2021 [3]

Unlscensed meaning [presumably in dealer storage] 51 " [3] " [2] " [11] " [10] " [5] " [6] " [14]

Grand total 89 firearms to be concerned about. Or more realistically 38 licenses.

Now depending to whom you listen to and the scuttlebutt can say these figures are BS and its a lot more, or a lot less and that's not all the restricted dealerships figures.

So irrespective of what may or may not else be out there. This is the DOJ's official figures that we should work on.

Can things be done...Yes of course, it is actually within ministerial power to grant exemptions and grandfather those 38 licenses. But it will need a concerted effort and a willingness for us to take it on. Hands up anyone seeing our established orgs taking this on?

l We are still awaiting a "robust reply" from one to the DOJ about the secure receptacles from 2 years ago, and the other is playing at being an ostrich, and allowing this to kill off any future signups for gallery M1 or pistol cal carbine matches...

Now if people would like to discuss alternatives please PM me...

BSA International · 31-08-2021 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117826523#Comment_117826523

Taking a court cases does not always guarantee victory for the plaintiff. Only person guaranteed to win is your legal representative/s. The comment you quoted was iirc referencing those who lost licences issued after the cut off date for new fulbore pistol licences which may set legal precedent in the s/a rifle situation some may now be facing

Grizzly 45 · 31-08-2021 3:17pm

Won't make any difference, as those cases that were taken for applications post the cut-off date for CF pistols were [1] DC court cases and [2] ASFIK none were successful. The cases that won were previously legally held licenses that were revoked for not having a "good reason to posses"as the assumption was made that they were all used for IPSC shooting.

The better option is to argue that as there was no firm timeframe given or still has to be given in enacting or adding this legislation the applicant is left in a no-mans land of legality.

Just to use a broad brush example. The govt proposes to ban the import of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030... You have a timeframe for when this ban comes in to either save up to buy a ridiculous electric car or save up to get that dream car you always wanted. In this case this proposed revocation is under no time frame,and taking 7 years is hardly being prompt about things either.Also,what is the threat posed by 38 extra licenses? Claiming that "they are extremely dangerous weapons in the wrong hands" as per written reply letter,is Horse and bull manure of the highest order.

BSA International · 31-08-2021 3:26pm

Fianna Fail killed f/b pistols. Now Fianna Fail, Fine Fail & Watermelons wanna do same to f/b s/a rifles. Same as last time it's at diversion and PR stunt.

Me Fein won't do much if anything to save "us" so it's bend over time again . I wonder what's next on "their" list ........ 🤔

Grizzly 45 · 31-08-2021 8:03pm

FF has always been anti-gun in legislation.

TCO 1972 Dessie O Malley FF,

Offensive weapons act 1990 W O Dea and R Burke FF

Criminal justice misc provisions act mk 1 Dermot Aherne FF

Criminal Misc provisions act mk 2 this propose by FG and being cemented into legislation by FF

Moral...Quit voting FF if you want to have guns in Ireland.

judestynes · 01-09-2021 8:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828509#Comment_117828509

OK. so really what we need is some of our own in the Dail.

Feisar · 01-09-2021 8:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117831331#Comment_117831331

I can't imagine I'll get to many first preferences under a pro gun banner. Joking aside the next lad that comes canvassing will be asked their position on gun ownership. We need to become dare I say it, like lads in the US and be single issue voters.

BSA International · 01-09-2021 9:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117831414#Comment_117831414

FG leadership made some big promises a few years ago after FF killed f/b pistols. NARGC asked it's membership to vote for them. Once in power they did NOTHING they promised to do.......

BSA International · 01-09-2021 9:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117831331#Comment_117831331

Even if we got a few in the system would negate them.

What we need to do is same as NRA in US. Become a valuable voting block and lobby existing parties. Only problem is shooting organisations here are a joke!

Feisar · 01-09-2021 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117831539#Comment_117831539

Thanks for reminding me, that's what the next FGer will be told when they come looking for a vote.

Are the Shinners the way to go, I presume they are pro gun?

Cass · 01-09-2021 1:35pm

Not a hope. Without trying to drag the thread off topic, as its far too important to go on a political party ranking rant, they are adamantly anti fieldsport, country sports, hunting party and have previously voted for strong gun control and increased restrictions on firearm ownership.

Frankly they seem worse than the crowd we have.

Grizzly 45 · 01-09-2021 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117831331#Comment_117831331

How about instead of us bemoaning the uselessness of our political parties, and organisations that should be looking out for this.We collectively who are concerned make an effort to save ourselves and try dealing with this? While we still have a chance?

judestynes · 01-09-2021 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117833262#Comment_117833262

We're all agreed this is something we ourselves have to solve. The big question is how? Our sport is the victim of negative public opinion. I know it's an uninformed opinion held by people who would struggle to name 4 or 5 government ministers or more than 2 of the signatories of our proclamation of independence but could tell you the names of every contestant on love island so how can can people like this be engaged , have our own reality show?? I know it's frustrating that even uninformed opinions have to count. As mentioned before in previous threads any attempt made by shooters to engage the media has been edited to show the sport in the worst possible light to justify the negative opinion. We may just have to accept, our sport doesn't fit in to this new world.

Feisar · 01-09-2021 3:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117833488#Comment_117833488

I know it's being defeatist however I'm in agreement. I'm after a conversation with a lad at work and he could not believe one could tender to shoot on Coilte land till I showed him. "What about people out walking" etc etc, oh trespassers I said, what entitlement do they have to be there? Person with gun = bad or in the wrong, end of. It started from his wife having rang him about lads out shooting ducks on a lake. They weren't even actively shooting, had just unpacked and were heading off. My Dad and I had the Gardaí called on us when we were zeroing a rifle on my uncles land years ago, thankfully it was a shooting buddy of his and he ended up having a shot. This was pre mobiles so they would have had to of gone home and still left so concerned that they called the Gardaí. Gun = bad.

Feisar · 01-09-2021 4:13pm

Apologies if this drifts to far off topic however case in point below:

https://www.newstalk.com/news/bird-populations-facing-bloodbath-as-open-seasons-order-passes-aran-1246108

BSA International · 01-09-2021 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117831987#Comment_117831987

Me feiners want to be the only ones with guns ........

Have any of the shooting orgs been informed of this development re banning f/b s/a rifles ?

Grizzly 45 · 01-09-2021 9:36pm

Who said anything about courting public opinion on this matter??? This is something that can be discussed and sorted between concerned people/groups and the minister and the Dept.

No need to involve or need the great unwashed in this. They have no understanding, or comprehension of this. Be like CERN scientists asking the man in the street about the possibility of the God particle existing for nanoseconds in the accelerator.🙄

Cmon lads, we are talking about 39 licenses..Not hundreds, and do you think the established orgs will be too arsed ? NASRPC has gone into the "Popular People Front of Judea" mode and are going to have a meeting with the national committee this week!!! It's only been on the cards for the last six bloody years and directly affects you growing organisations membership and two disiplines.😣

BSA International · 01-09-2021 9:55pm

Fair enough Grizzly, none of my business so.

You got your FUNI cape on and you gonna save the day?

Grizzly 45 · 01-09-2021 10:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117833642#Comment_117833642

Simple answer...YAWN!!...No one cares what John "Streaker" Carmody[as he is known down in Limerick as] has to say for himself. His thing was or is pulling PETA type stunts with female models in his Speedos and them in their bikinis and covering themselves in fake blood and lying on the sidewalk protesting multiple different animal rights issues. So that's why he has media coverage from these stunts and is a bit more photogenic and gay than the usual crop of harridans in the anti crowd.

More interesting is this bunch of yahoos called the Irish Party for Animal Rights and Environment who started a petition on change.org to get Coilte to close down der hunting on their lets and are threatening direct action against deer stalkers down around WCork/Kerry.

Which just happens to be former guerrilla country 100 years ago, and we are still looking for "disappeared" people from back then...

Try "direct action" against some of the natives down there and there will be new "disappeared" to be looking for.😂

One of their posts on FB Its worth reading for a laugh at the naiveity of this one-man band.which is literally what it is as he came onto FUNI on fB issuing all sorts of physical threats.

The Deer/ Wild Mountain Goat/ Fowl hunting season or trophy hunting season begins today.

The Hare coursing season begins shortly.

The Fox hunting season begins shortly.

The cruelty sport called Greyhound racing continues.

State owned Coillte issue tenders so people can hunt and kill Sentient Beings.

Kerry is now becoming the blood stained trophy capital of Ireland.

Kerry is known for its welcomes, its beaches, it mountains, its hills, its valleys, its lakes and its peace and tranquility.

Do we stand back and let this slaughter continue.

Please join Irish Party for Animal Welfare and Environment today.

You can be a silent or active member.

PM or email animalrightspartyireland@gmail.com.

Or contact 087 636 3149

We also need people on the ground to stand up to these blood stained hunters.

When we have enough of member we can register as a Political Party in Ireland.

Please sign up and share.

Please be a Voice for the Voiceless.

the petition link.Read the description of intent to cause problems. https://www.change.org/p/animal-rights-animal-welfare-animals-animal-cruelty-deer-hunting-trophy-hunting-wild-mountain-stop-state-owned-quillte-from-authorising-forests-for-trophy-hunting?recruiter=1221933875&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&recruited_by_id=3e892170-0054-11ec-be0d-17497f8018f3&utm_content=fht-30389691-en-gb%3A6

Feisar · 02-09-2021 8:23am

@Grizzly 45, while I see your point I'll have to disagree. It's all about reinforcement advertising. There's a billboard on the way into town and every second add is about how wrong greyhound racing is or the evils of live export of cattle. It doesn't matter that yer man is a numpty, there is an article on a nationwide broadcasters website calling us bloodthirsty.

judestynes · 02-09-2021 9:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117835308#Comment_117835308

Unfortunately Grizzly, we have consider what the public think. Every time some criminal does criminal sh1t with a firearm we get tarred with the same brush. It's sad but true. We're talking about people here, while a person is capable of logical and lateral thought, people are as thick as a bag of hammers and thick or not they still have the right to a vote. I fully agree that we need to change how the sport and us who participate in it are perceived, but I disagree that it has nothing to do with the public. It's upto us to educate them and if sensationalism works for the anti's then that's the route we ourselves should follow. Sensationalize a bloated deer herd destroying crops.

Feisar · 02-09-2021 9:36am

Back to the issue at hand, what org with a bit of clout is going to champion this? Hard to see the NARGC rowing in for a few lads with semi autos.

jb88 · 02-09-2021 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117835308#Comment_117835308

And you believe its only 39 licences after you asked the minister to bring this whole issue up in the first case,mmm how little you know about everything

otmmyboy2 · 02-09-2021 12:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117836722#Comment_117836722

I doubt the NARGC will row in with anything like this, but I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.

A few would be an underestimate I think though, Grizzly mentioned they thought it was only 39 licences, but that is very likely based on incomplete data(most gun dealers I know have sent no response to the enquiry, or a message along the lines of "aren't you(the DoJ) meant to keep track of that?".

Couple that with the massive mess that is pulse and the lackadaisical way it is administered from one district to the other it is highly likely there are many missed numbers.

Cass · 02-09-2021 12:28pm

I believe the figure of 39 is only representative of the number licensed between the statement in 2015 and today. Other figures include an additional 51 imported, presumably by RFDs, but as of yet unsold/unlicensed, but none of that includes the licensed firearm prior to Sept 2015 which would be exempt from future legislation.

The number I least heard/saw was 167 prior to the statement in 2015. IOW that many, or possibly more, were already licensed. So the total number of SACF Rifles stands at over 200 which is more believeable, but as anyting prior to 2015 is "safe" its not counted.

BSA International · 02-09-2021 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117837434#Comment_117837434

In the past NARGC haven't "rowed in" behind members who had moderator refusals which affected a lot more NARGC members than this is likely to affect.

Also, NARGC should only be "fighting" for NARGC members IF they do get involved. Anyone not a member should be represented by whoever they are a member/s of.

Grizzly 45 · 02-09-2021 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117837126#Comment_117837126

Says the man who has been in denial about this for the last 5 years. And has a vested intrest in this ,or maybe not??

Grizzly 45 · 02-09-2021 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117837520#Comment_117837520

At this point we have to treat it as heresay any other figures that are bandied about. These are official released ministerial/ DOJ statement figures so that's what we have to work with.Like we did with in the Dail public inquiry,use their figures against them.

Grizzly 45 · 02-09-2021 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117836490#Comment_117836490

Yes,but not on this problem.That's fine for something like pro gun ownership and hunting.But imagine your campaign on the side of a bus saying "Buy a semi auto rifle..."To the majority of the population [1] they wouldn't have a clue what is involved and [2] it would be ringing the dinner bell for hysterical anti gunners amongst us,

Grizzly 45 · 02-09-2021 2:26pm

Inc the reply received from the Minister for State. With the question asked, and the ministers response. Some here believe in openness and transparency unlike some mainstream groups

Think its fair that people see what is proposed .And going by the underlined it seems they want to go after the pre-2015 stuff as well!

PTDC0069.JPG

PTDC0068.JPG

BattleCorp · 02-09-2021 8:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117836722#Comment_117836722

It's 39 or maybe 89 licences now.

And what's next?

Then they'll go for large calibre guns.

Then they'll go for the restricted centrefire pistols.

Then they'll go for .22lr pistols.

Then they'll go for restricted rifles such as the .38 lever action guns.

Then they'll go for semi auto and pump action shotguns.

Then they'll go for semi auto .22's.

The aim is to only have single barrel shotguns and maybe a bolt action .22lr rifle here and there.

And that's only if they don't manage to get your ammunition first.

BattleCorp · 02-09-2021 8:26pm

That paragraph near the end that says the payment of compensation wouldn't arise in these circumstances?

Get ta fcuk.

Cass · 02-09-2021 10:04pm

Its right though, legally and technically. I'd fight it if I were in that boat, but it'll be a tough fight.

Grizzly 45 · 03-09-2021 12:42pm

I dont know where he gets "consistently advised" from RE compensation..ASFIK this is the 1st time it has ever arisen in 6 years this topic..Also,as I've said before as the DOJ and two ministers later has never given a time frame for when they would enact this be it 5 days,months,or 50 years in the future post 2015. We have to go and dismiss this as fair warning too.

Imagine saying on any legislation EG;

" We are going to ban ciggies!" "Ok when?" "Dunno we are working on it, but we WILL ban them!" "well do I need to stock up on them or get nicotine patches ?"

"Naw be grand! but we are banning them, sometimes" " But I can still buy them in the shops right now!" "Of course, they are still available no bother,go ahead!" "Grand I'm off for a pack then!" "Sorry, you cant...We just banned them!"

Every other thing that has been licensed and deregulated or banned here in Irish law has been given at least 12 plus months warning that it would be either banned or deregulated. Why can this not have been extended in this case and given us a future date? Gunowners being treated as 3rd class citizenry again.

otmmyboy2 · 06-09-2021 12:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839510#Comment_117839510

Couldn't agree more, that is the very reason I changed my sig when the site updated.

The end goal is zero (or as close as is practicable) firearms, and always has been.

If anything over the past year has made anyone think about how the state acts, it is that divide and conquer is still the best way to deal with anything, because it works so well.

Whether that is dividing people over politics, covid, economics, firearms, etc.

Cass · 06-09-2021 1:08pm

The scary part in all this, and while it has much broader implications I'm sticking with firearms, is the sheer volume of legislation being drafted without proper consultation, debate, etc. I know that higgins wrote to the Dáil due to the large amount of legislation, but also the short time frame to consider it all and so his focus is on the timeframe rather than the actual amount, however during covid times the FFGG are using this period to push through anything they want.

I realise with a majority they have the numbers regardless, but how stymied is the process with the excuse of "we cannot meet up in person"?

otmmyboy2 · 06-09-2021 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853344#Comment_117853344

Considering that almost every private enterprise which can work remotely has had to do so at some stage in the past 18 months, and the fact that remote working was very much a thing pre-2019 too I think that excuse is utter garbage.

Also even with a majority there is still supposed to be give and take, debate, democracy in a word.

There has been anything but with the same excuse being thrown out, and the government doing whatever they wish regardless.

What currently exists in Ireland (and many other "first world" countries) is a tyranny of the many, which is not democratic regardless of pretence.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Revoking of SACF rifles & New Legislation (thread banned users in first post)

Comments

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County