At this point we have to treat it as heresay any other figures that are bandied about. These are official released ministerial/ DOJ statement figures so that's what we have to work with.Like we did with in the Dail public inquiry,use their figures against them.
Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"
Yes,but not on this problem.That's fine for something like pro gun ownership and hunting.But imagine your campaign on the side of a bus saying "Buy a semi auto rifle..."To the majority of the population  they wouldn't have a clue what is involved and  it would be ringing the dinner bell for hysterical anti gunners amongst us,
Inc the reply received from the Minister for State. With the question asked, and the ministers response. Some here believe in openness and transparency unlike some mainstream groups
Think its fair that people see what is proposed .And going by the underlined it seems they want to go after the pre-2015 stuff as well!
It's 39 or maybe 89 licences now.
And what's next?
Then they'll go for large calibre guns.
Then they'll go for the restricted centrefire pistols.
Then they'll go for .22lr pistols.
Then they'll go for restricted rifles such as the .38 lever action guns.
Then they'll go for semi auto and pump action shotguns.
Then they'll go for semi auto .22's.
The aim is to only have single barrel shotguns and maybe a bolt action .22lr rifle here and there.
And that's only if they don't manage to get your ammunition first.
That paragraph near the end that says the payment of compensation wouldn't arise in these circumstances?
Get ta fcuk.
Its right though, legally and technically. I'd fight it if I were in that boat, but it'll be a tough fight.
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I dont know where he gets "consistently advised" from RE compensation..ASFIK this is the 1st time it has ever arisen in 6 years this topic..Also,as I've said before as the DOJ and two ministers later has never given a time frame for when they would enact this be it 5 days,months,or 50 years in the future post 2015. We have to go and dismiss this as fair warning too.
Imagine saying on any legislation EG;
" We are going to ban ciggies!" "Ok when?" "Dunno we are working on it, but we WILL ban them!" "well do I need to stock up on them or get nicotine patches ?"
"Naw be grand! but we are banning them, sometimes" " But I can still buy them in the shops right now!" "Of course, they are still available no bother,go ahead!" "Grand I'm off for a pack then!" "Sorry, you cant...We just banned them!"
Every other thing that has been licensed and deregulated or banned here in Irish law has been given at least 12 plus months warning that it would be either banned or deregulated. Why can this not have been extended in this case and given us a future date? Gunowners being treated as 3rd class citizenry again.
Couldn't agree more, that is the very reason I changed my sig when the site updated.
The end goal is zero (or as close as is practicable) firearms, and always has been.
If anything over the past year has made anyone think about how the state acts, it is that divide and conquer is still the best way to deal with anything, because it works so well.
Whether that is dividing people over politics, covid, economics, firearms, etc.
Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.
S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized
Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered
S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban
The scary part in all this, and while it has much broader implications I'm sticking with firearms, is the sheer volume of legislation being drafted without proper consultation, debate, etc. I know that higgins wrote to the Dáil due to the large amount of legislation, but also the short time frame to consider it all and so his focus is on the timeframe rather than the actual amount, however during covid times the FFGG are using this period to push through anything they want.
I realise with a majority they have the numbers regardless, but how stymied is the process with the excuse of "we cannot meet up in person"?
Considering that almost every private enterprise which can work remotely has had to do so at some stage in the past 18 months, and the fact that remote working was very much a thing pre-2019 too I think that excuse is utter garbage.
Also even with a majority there is still supposed to be give and take, debate, democracy in a word.
There has been anything but with the same excuse being thrown out, and the government doing whatever they wish regardless.
What currently exists in Ireland (and many other "first world" countries) is a tyranny of the many, which is not democratic regardless of pretence.
Meantime while this has all been going on,another bit of firearms legislation was slipped under the radar.
SI 283 2021.
Signed into law by Heather Humphries June 9th . Not too much to panic about folks...It's dealing with the marking of firearms component parts and the font size and putting a metal ID plate onto polymer frames of firearms.Its just them translating further Furher Befelhe..Er..EU directives into Irish law.😡
Point is; This is apparently how govt likes to conduct business without mentioning this to any parties affected or concerned. I only spotted this by a browse past SCOVI's FB page.
Been following this development for last few days. looks like a crisis to me, but one we can still do something about.
From what i see, this bill has to go before the Justice committee before going any further. We probably can't stop the bill, but we can trim it a bit if we're smart and united like we were in "15.
We need to do something practical. Been thinking about how the farmers do it. They have a few TD's from every party that are willing to talk on their behalf.
First thing then for us is to put together a list of TD's etc., that we have successfully worked with: I'll start it off with Marian Harkin, Matt carthy, Sean Fleming, Sean O'Fearghail and the Fg guy from S. Kildare (can't remember his name).
When we get a list together, we write to them and take it from there.
Just my 2c.
Marian Harkin is retired ASFIK. Dunno about the others, I believe NASRPC is planning on doing something along the same lines.
However, a better suggestion might be to fast track this process and get a delegation to go and talk to the minister about this ourselves? I already made contact with one of my TDs who is only too happy to make an approach and introduction to the minister to get the ball rolling?
Think what's more important at this point is to put together a strategy and plan as to what we expect and will get, or not out of such a meeting?
Gents I hate to say it however in light of the two recent tragedies and the previous one in Cork I can't see there being a sympathetic ear for our cause.
First they came for the socialists...
I think Marian Harkin stood for the Dail last election and AFAIK she won a seat.
Agree about the recent atrocities, I'm always shocked when these things happen. A person can do nothing more selfish than murder and I can only imagine the devastation it causes in families. Utterly condemn these atrocities. They are not tragedies.
I still think we should press on, bearing the above in mind.
On the above tragedy. The corpse dancing fest has already started . Holly Cains TD for Cork SW and Advic spokesman...take a bow. The woman couldn't even have the dignity to wait until these people were buried before starting to make political hay out of this tragedy.😡😡
https://hollycairns.ie/ oh Social Democrat...Says a lot.
"If figures around gun ownership in Ireland are correct, it seems an extraordinarily high number," she said.
If and seems, how is this waffle allowed to be printed, I also take umbradge with legal and illegal firearms being lumped into the one. We are not the one sows' pigs!
The number they [gunpolicy] claim, which is outdated (from before 2008) and used in the above article, is a guess-timate based on worldwide firearm ownership rates and has been thoroughly debunked here numerous times. It is arrived at by using a forumla they use in other countries. It has no basis in reality and claims Ireland has a gun ownership rate of 8.6% - 9.1% when in fact its closer to 3% according to An Garda Siochanna and PULSE.
The figure of 393,000 of a civilian "stockpile" is utter crap as it ASSUMES the ownership of 150,000 illegal firearms with no proof, no actual data and no basis other than "someone worked it out using math". Coupled with, again, an outdated firgure for legally held firearms (which dropped from 248,000 in 2008 to 187,000 by 2010 due to the 2009 criminal justice misc. provisions act and has in the last 12 years risen to approx 225,000. SO not even 2008 levels.
You cannot legislate for the unpredictable. The bastardisation of made up figures used to call for "tighter" gun control is disengenuous at best and outright derogatory at worst. Tighter gun control only exists in one form for the political class, outright bans.
With the pistol ban in 2008, the Semi-auto rifle ban coming shortly, and now this, be under no illusion the agenda is a gun free society.
Might be worth sending such facts and figures to this silly woman and also to "De examiner" as a mention that using old out of date statistics just makes them look like complete edjits.
A good growl from the sleeping bear,might be good advice to leave us alone and out of it?
Guys we're completely ignoring the elephant in the room here. Of course the state and the media are going to sling all kinds of fear mongering here, there and everywhere to take to focus off the fact that access to mental health services over the past few years has been cut drastically. The world when I was in my 20's and the world today are 2 very different places. Life today is far more stressful than it used to be and services to support that just aren't there.
Unfortunately it doesn't make them look like eejits since they control the narrative it stands as fact. Yer average Joe isn't going to check facts, people died, guns bad and the realm of criminals/oddball survivalists/hunters and we know hunting is bad. Sure wasn't I only out trespassing the other day in a forest and some lad came out of the trees with a gun!!! Doesn't matter that he paid the state to be there and I shouldn't have been, he had a GUN!
There is no sleeping bear, we'll be brought into the sculling gate one at a time.
VERY much a point that should be hammered home, esp since Govt mandated COVID curfews and whatnot have put a drastic strain on rural families by isolating people even further over the last year,so much to the point that rural suicides rose something like 50% over the last year. Wouldnt be surprised if this was a case of cabin fever or the other common affliction of rural Irish life land/inheritance thereof or imminent loss of land and farm.
Unfortunately it doesn't make them look like eejits since they control the narrative it stands as fact. Yer average Joe isn't going to check facts, people died, guns bad and the realm of criminals/oddball survivalists/hunters and we know hunting is bad
Again, this is why I keep saying the PRO of our organisations is critical and crucial!!! Do you think the EU pro-gun orgs would be sitting back on an issue or statement like this? Will we hear anything from the main orgs on this here to respond to these utter inaruaccyies?
In 2015 Frances Fitzgerald said she would move legislation to ban S/A C/F rifles if there was evidence for increasing numbers licensed.
There were 39 new licences issued since then, with a starting number of 167 or so.
The population of Ireland has grown from 4.635 million in 2015 to 5.01 million today (working from memory).
Also, very good article in yesterday's Sunday times by Breda Power about the recent murder suicides with firearms, it's behind a paywall, but she essentially says that there have been several other murder suicides here that did not involve firearms and that they probably would have happened anyway if the perpetrators did not have a gun. She argues that we should look at what's underlying these atrocities.
Unfortunately that is not what the minister said: She did say that they would review the licensing of handguns .22 if there was a high number licensed, more to the point this is what she said: (quick google search will get you to the full text of what she said)
18th September 2015 Statement Minister Fitzgerald announces changes to Firearms Licensing:
“Immediate cap on licensing of any new centre-fire semi-automatic rifles
The Minister intends to introduce an immediate temporary cap on the licensing of any new centre-fire semi-automatic rifles pending the establishment and determination of the Authority.”
Now I see no evidence of the formation of the Authority which is pivotal in protecting our sport, outside of the emotion of the moment.
In relation to implementation of changes to the primary firearms legislation the DOJ and the minister habitually tag it onto other legislation as was evident from the significant changes made in the Criminal Justice Acts in 2006!!! So unfortunately this change could come at any time.
The implications are far reaching with such a ban, it opens the door to prohibition of all classes of firearms at a whim, without the Assessment and Appeals Authority and we know full well who benefits from that.
Significant sports like Classic Rifle including M1 Garand and M1 Carbine Sports are such that individuals have invested heavily in these classic firearms, such a pity that it will be an all out ban, some 9mm carbines appearing on the scene in gallery rifle open events, what of their future. Sounds to me like the National competitions will be worst hit and the National Associations needs to get more vocal and politically motivated.
Remember what happened in the UK when they took in the pistols, so many sporting firearms owners stood back and said not effecting me and it was the slippery slope.
On a more concerning note I have heard of reports of AGS making unscheduled and unannounced visits to .22 pistol owners, examining magazines to ensure they are 5 shot compliant, where they are not apparently they are seizing all the persons firearm's, many reports out of the Balbriggan district and apparently starting in Wicklow also. What a complete waste of Garda resources, imagine Firearms Officers who are usually community based being diverted nationwide to see if an individuals magazine is restricted to 5 shots and of course I wouldn't mind the chap in Balbriggan taking all firearms if he found a 10 shot pistol mag, clearly unaware of the legislation that states modified before use, purchase and possession of a 10 shot pistol magazine is not prohibited and certainly not unlawful. What part of the firearms legislation allows them to take such drastic action is beyond me!
Back to the good old days of intimidation and criminalising the lawful individuals!!!
Also, very good article in yesterday's Sunday times by Breda Power about the recent murder suicides with firearms, it's behind a paywall,
Right click the whole article,bar the pics if any. Click copy and post .Found that's one way of spreading a paywalled article.
DO NOT post/copy such an article either partially or in its entirety here. Its a breach of Copyright law and will be removed.
Which has been impossible to do up to now as there was no legislation to the act,that's why they are working away at it while we are snoozing.
The Firearms Arbitration Appeals Authority...Supposed to be another stop between refusal and going to the Dist court, where the AGS lost 95% of the time. Quite frankly, might as well forget about it, as all it would be ie another cost layer and delay tactic to the license applicant. Staffed no doubt by ex Garda Supers and bureaucratic anti-gun Hollywood educated donkeys, without one person from the shooting orgs involved or consulted. Do you want that kind of people deciding on what kind of firearm is suitable for us to own? While a bit more costly and intimidating, direct access to the judicial system is IMO a better and quicker approach.
In relation to the implementation of changes to the primary firearms legislation the DOJ and the minister habitually tag it onto other legislation as was evident from the significant changes made in the Criminal Justice Acts in 2006!!! So unfortunately this change could come at any time.
If you read the above-posted letter. You are correct, it is being tacked onto the CJA act 2021. And this is a point we should lobby on as well. The proposed contents are in relation to carrying knives, not on banning firearms. So this point needs to be raised by someone on our side. Why is this being kept sthum and only the aforementioned being part of the proposed amendment on the Dail proposal paper?
Significant sports like Classic Rifle including M1 Garand and M1 Carbine Sports are such that individuals have invested heavily in these classic firearms, such a pity that it will be an all-out ban, some 9mm carbines appearing on the scene in gallery rifle open events, what of their future. Sounds to me like the National competitions will be the worst hit and the National Associations needs to get more vocal and politically motivated.
^THIS^ In all fairness there has been only 5 years of time wasted to tackle this issue,but it seems to have been a "let sleeping dogs lie,and hope it will go away!" attitude,or outright denial of the fact that this was eventually going to erupt. So now it behoves the organisations to actually go and confront this head on.NARSPC finally is moving on the issue and has apparently already told the more Fuddish elements who were in "nothing to do with us!" that it DOES concern them very much now. So all that can be done is a concerted effort to challenge this politically and maybe point out to Fianna Failure that after their last think in this weekend gone that going and riling up people who contribute 6million to the economy isn't going to do them any good at the door and at the polls.
Haven't they still not sorted out this BS yet???This has been ongoing for the last 10 years here on boards.🙄
On a more concerning note I have heard of reports of AGS making unscheduled and unannounced visits to .22 pistol owners, examining magazines to ensure they are 5 shot compliant, where they are not apparently they are seizing all the person's firearm's, many reports out of the Balbriggan district and apparently starting in Wicklow also. What a complete waste of Garda resources, imagine Firearms Officers who are usually community-based being diverted nationwide to see if an individuals magazine is restricted to 5 shots and of course I wouldn't mind the chap in Balbriggan taking all firearms if he found a 10 shot pistol mag, clearly unaware of the legislation that states modified before use, purchase and possession of a 10 shot pistol magazine is not prohibited and certainly not unlawful. What part of the firearms legislation allows them to take such drastic action is beyond me!
Which they can do under law. However, it sounds like there is more to this tale than is being told?ESP the part underlined?
Hasn't who sorted what?
This is law. Its not a Boards "thing". It was written into law in 2011 by the then Minister Sherlock and effectively banned the copying of such into forums like this.