Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

Tenger · 28-06-2021 03:15PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

I remember late February 2020 and Italy was reporting a huge surge in infections, so much so that it was predicted that Italy would become the European epicenter

That same day there were reports of numerous secondary schools heading off to the infected regions on ski trips... Where was the logic that week?

I completely see your point but at the time it was still a "novel coronoavirus" and Europe wasnt sure what to do.
My family in Hong Kong had a plan in place since SARS in 2003. In late January they were doing virtual school.

Hindsight is 20/20

Housefree · 28-06-2021 03:20PM

bloopy wrote: »

Am due a few days off in mid July. I think it may be an idea now to start looking what is available up north.
This is a f***in farce.

Plenty of parades to attend mid July

bloopy · 28-06-2021 03:22PM

Housefree wrote: »

Plenty of parades to attend mid July

Ah crap.
Forgot about that nonsense.

Gael23 · 28-06-2021 03:26PM

Varadkar also said they won’t go against Tony’s “advice”

OwenM · 28-06-2021 03:26PM

Arghus wrote: »

Here you go, all in the last two pages:

And more too expressing the view that delaying pub reopening is part of some nefarious plan to curb alcohol consumption - a theory which is, quite frankly, fcking nuts.

https://twitter.com/LVADublinPubs/status/1409432500804403201

ElTel · 28-06-2021 03:28PM

seamus wrote: »

To be fair, all of those models you're talking about were the worst-case scenarios, so of course the media led with them. NPHET presented a number of models with each of these advisories, but the fact that any one of them aren't exactly right, doesn't mean it's all nonsense.

I wonder what this "10%" is supposed to mean though or where it's come from. It's not some off-the-cuff remark from Leo, he has dropped this in very deliberately to suggest that pushing back the reopening would be overly cautious.

But we are doing even better than their best case models! Will they adjust their models for R?

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-19-testing-contact-tracing-updates.html

Our contact tracing calls are down to 5k a week for the past fortnight compared to 6k calls the previous fortnight.

Secondary schools closed a month, exams finished and primary now closing...

Nphet will have some hoops to jump through to justify any stall in the plan imo.

BringBackMick · 28-06-2021 03:30PM

So our Tanaiste and soon Taoiseach again has admitted our states .major decisions are made by an unelected medical civil servant

The conspiracy theorists weren't far off

growleaves · 28-06-2021 03:31PM

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Parachutes · 28-06-2021 03:51PM

It’s beyond a joke at this stage, especially in regards to the new rules on travel between Ireland and England. I don’t think they understand the implications these flippant changes in restrictions have in people’s lives. I’m worn out.

M_Murphy57 · 28-06-2021 04:00PM

Parachutes wrote: »

It’s beyond a joke at this stage, especially in regards to the new rules on travel between Ireland and England. I don’t think they understand the implications these flippant changes in restrictions have in people’s lives. I’m worn out.

Same. I can't begin to imagine what this is doing to the mental resolve of publicans etc.

Timmy O Toole · 28-06-2021 04:06PM

Parachutes wrote: »

It’s beyond a joke at this stage, especially in regards to the new rules on travel between Ireland and England. I don’t think they understand the implications these flippant changes in restrictions have in people’s lives. I’m worn out.

What are the rules on travel to and from England?

Vicxas · 28-06-2021 04:08PM

It boggles the mind, what are 2 weeks going to do when our most vulnerable are almost fully vaccinated and DONT dine indoors that much.

Its a NPHET power play, pure and simple.

PTH2009 · 28-06-2021 04:12PM

Tis depressing and frustrating, I guess it's a different virus we have here

From the vintners association facebook

A sequence of events:
- 15 March 2020: Pubs close across the country.
- 20 July 2020: Reopening of traditional pubs delayed.
- 10 Aug 2020: Reopening delayed.
- 31 Aug 2020: Reopening delayed.
- 8 Sept 2020: Gov says traditional pubs can reopen on 21 Sept
- 9 Sept 2020: Tanaiste suggests Dublin pubs won’t open on 21/09
- 15 Sept 2020: Gov confirms traditional pubs in Dublin to remain closed and won’t reopen on 21 Sept.
- 21 Sept 2020: Traditional pubs outside Dublin open.
- 5 Oct 2020: All pubs and hospitality closed.
- Traditional pubs (the majority of pubs in the country) remain closed and do not open for a single day during the rest of the year and into summer 2021.
- 28 May 2021: Government says indoor service for pubs and restaurants can resume 5 July.
- 7 June 2021: Outdoor service permitted. 40%+ of pubs still unable to open. Many of those that can do so with severally limited capacity and subject to Irish weather.
- 22/ 23 June 2021: Kites being flown by ‘sources’ that July reopening will be delayed.
- 29 June 2021: Gov expected to confirm the delay.

As of today traditional pubs in Dublin have not had customers in their premises for 469 days and counting.

And yet there are people in their ivory towers pontificating “oh it’s only another few weeks”.

#hospitality #pubs #OpenTogether #NotDisposable

namloc1980 · 28-06-2021 04:14PM

Vicxas wrote: »

It boggles the mind, what are 2 weeks going to do when our most vulnerable are almost fully vaccinated and DONT dine indoors that much.

Its a NPHET power play, pure and simple.

Two weeks will have little or no impact on the public health situation, but will have a devastating impact on many businesses who do a lot of their business in the summer. Delaying makes neither scientific nor economic sense. It comes down to Tony and NPHET flexing their power again and they know the government will do what they tell them.

zackory · 28-06-2021 04:18PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Tis depressing and frustrating, I guess it's a different virus we have here

From the vintners association facebook

A sequence of events:
- 15 March 2020: Pubs close across the country.
- 20 July 2020: Reopening of traditional pubs delayed.
- 10 Aug 2020: Reopening delayed.
- 31 Aug 2020: Reopening delayed.
- 8 Sept 2020: Gov says traditional pubs can reopen on 21 Sept
- 9 Sept 2020: Tanaiste suggests Dublin pubs won’t open on 21/09
- 15 Sept 2020: Gov confirms traditional pubs in Dublin to remain closed and won’t reopen on 21 Sept.
- 21 Sept 2020: Traditional pubs outside Dublin open.
- 5 Oct 2020: All pubs and hospitality closed.
- Traditional pubs (the majority of pubs in the country) remain closed and do not open for a single day during the rest of the year and into summer 2021.
- 28 May 2021: Government says indoor service for pubs and restaurants can resume 5 July.
- 7 June 2021: Outdoor service permitted. 40%+ of pubs still unable to open. Many of those that can do so with severally limited capacity and subject to Irish weather.
- 22/ 23 June 2021: Kites being flown by ‘sources’ that July reopening will be delayed.
- 29 June 2021: Gov expected to confirm the delay.

As of today traditional pubs in Dublin have not had customers in their premises for 469 days and counting.

And yet there are people in their ivory towers pontificating “oh it’s only another few weeks”.

#hospitality #pubs #OpenTogether #NotDisposable

Nothing short of a scandal and while the politicians are not perfect a lot of blame must fall at the feet of Tony Holohan, freeman of Dublin.

namloc1980 · 28-06-2021 04:21PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Tis depressing and frustrating, I guess it's a different virus we have here

From the vintners association facebook

A sequence of events:
- 15 March 2020: Pubs close across the country.
- 20 July 2020: Reopening of traditional pubs delayed.
- 10 Aug 2020: Reopening delayed.
- 31 Aug 2020: Reopening delayed.
- 8 Sept 2020: Gov says traditional pubs can reopen on 21 Sept
- 9 Sept 2020: Tanaiste suggests Dublin pubs won’t open on 21/09
- 15 Sept 2020: Gov confirms traditional pubs in Dublin to remain closed and won’t reopen on 21 Sept.
- 21 Sept 2020: Traditional pubs outside Dublin open.
- 5 Oct 2020: All pubs and hospitality closed.
- Traditional pubs (the majority of pubs in the country) remain closed and do not open for a single day during the rest of the year and into summer 2021.
- 28 May 2021: Government says indoor service for pubs and restaurants can resume 5 July.
- 7 June 2021: Outdoor service permitted. 40%+ of pubs still unable to open. Many of those that can do so with severally limited capacity and subject to Irish weather.
- 22/ 23 June 2021: Kites being flown by ‘sources’ that July reopening will be delayed.
- 29 June 2021: Gov expected to confirm the delay.

As of today traditional pubs in Dublin have not had customers in their premises for 469 days and counting.

And yet there are people in their ivory towers pontificating “oh it’s only another few weeks”.

#hospitality #pubs #OpenTogether #NotDisposable

Shocking when you see it laid out like that!

_Kaiser_ · 28-06-2021 04:25PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Wasn't their outcry a few months back when Revenue reminded everyone that PUP payments may incur tax liabilities for some.

Just wait till the real bill arrives in the budget(s). I fully expect we'll be paying the cost of this for the rest of the decade.

Looks like Pascal and Micheal were listening ...

Irish government debt will stand at close to a quarter of a trillion euro by the end of the year, Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe has said.

Addressing the national economic dialogue - which involves senior Government figures, employers, trade unions and social campaign groups - he said the Government needed to end its expansionary budgetary policy as the economy emerged from the pandemic.

Separately, Taoiseach Micheál Martin told the same event State expenditure over the last year or so on foot of the pandemic - of about €38 billion - was “not sustainable”.

Mr Martin said “we must now move to the next phase, in which the finite resources that Government can deploy are targeted at those who need them most, and used in a way that best supports recovery and our future prosperity”.

“While we will be ambitious in our plans and in what we want to achieve, we must be mature enough as a society to recognise that there are trade-offs, that not everything can be achieved overnight, and that for so many of the challenges we face there are no easy, quick answers or solutions.”

Softening us up for the pain and cutbacks to come shortly!

gmisk · 28-06-2021 04:25PM

Another trip up north is looking pretty inviting again...

A further two week delay is a nonsense, nothing much will have changed

28-06-2021 04:33PM

Are hospitals currently at risk of being overwhelmed?

No.

Are hospitals likely to be overwhelmed in the next few weeks?

No.

Does delaying by 2-weeks prevent hospitals being overwhelmed?

No - because there is no risk of this happening anyway.

Has the Indian variant of NPHET concern wrought havoc in the UK?

No.

Does delaying by 2-weeks severely damage the economy and local businesses struggling?

Yes.

Are cases in Ireland ridiculously low at the moment, with stupendously low hospitalizations and low deaths?

Yes.

Conclusion from NPHET

Delay by 2-weeks.

Everyone else:

:mad: :eek:

GiftofGab · 28-06-2021 04:34PM

How have we given the government and unelected public servant so much power that they can literally destroy a nation in front of our eyes.
Leo saying he'll go with Tony's advise - What about the wishes of the people of this country? Nobody only Tony wants this pushed out another 2 weeks.

namloc1980 · 28-06-2021 04:35PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Looks like Pascal and Micheal were listening ...

Softening us up for the pain and cutbacks to come shortly!

Michael McGrath: “Failure to unwind Covid spending once Covid is behind us means this has to be funded by higher taxes or by running larger deficits for longer, with the associated risks this brings for our finances once the European Central Bank’s intervention in the markets tapers off and the fiscal rules are fully reinstated.”

They won't go against ECB/Treaty requirements on deficits long terms, so tax it will be. The bill is fast approaching for all this and we're still here talking about keeping vital segments of the economy locked down.

hynesie08 · 28-06-2021 04:38PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Tis depressing and frustrating, I guess it's a different virus we have here

From the vintners association facebook

A sequence of events:
- 15 March 2020: Pubs close across the country.
- 20 July 2020: Reopening of traditional pubs delayed.
- 10 Aug 2020: Reopening delayed.
- 31 Aug 2020: Reopening delayed.
- 8 Sept 2020: Gov says traditional pubs can reopen on 21 Sept
- 9 Sept 2020: Tanaiste suggests Dublin pubs won’t open on 21/09
- 15 Sept 2020: Gov confirms traditional pubs in Dublin to remain closed and won’t reopen on 21 Sept.
- 21 Sept 2020: Traditional pubs outside Dublin open.
- 5 Oct 2020: All pubs and hospitality closed.
- Traditional pubs (the majority of pubs in the country) remain closed and do not open for a single day during the rest of the year and into summer 2021.
- 28 May 2021: Government says indoor service for pubs and restaurants can resume 5 July.
- 7 June 2021: Outdoor service permitted. 40%+ of pubs still unable to open. Many of those that can do so with severally limited capacity and subject to Irish weather.
- 22/ 23 June 2021: Kites being flown by ‘sources’ that July reopening will be delayed.
- 29 June 2021: Gov expected to confirm the delay.

As of today traditional pubs in Dublin have not had customers in their premises for 469 days and counting.

And yet there are people in their ivory towers pontificating “oh it’s only another few weeks”.

#hospitality #pubs #OpenTogether #NotDisposable

Just shows how useless the vintners association is....

bear1 · 28-06-2021 04:38PM

Meanwhile, in a country which actually had a valid reason to be closed for so long..

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0628/1231717-world-covid/

namloc1980 · 28-06-2021 04:39PM

GiftofGab wrote: »

How have we given the government and unelected public servant so much power that they can literally destroy a nation in front of our eyes.
Leo saying he'll go with Tony's advise - What about the wishes of the people of this country? Nobody only Tony wants this pushed out another 2 weeks.

All the indications are downward: cases are down, hospitalisations are down, ICU is down and NPHET still looking to keep the shutters down. If they do delay and any of those indicators move slightly upwards in the next 2 weeks, it's a certainty Tony and NPHET will request continued restrictions even then. It's the same playbook as last summer. Delay, delay, delay.

charlie14 · 28-06-2021 04:40PM

Vicxas wrote: »

It boggles the mind, what are 2 weeks going to do when our most vulnerable are almost fully vaccinated and DONT dine indoors that much.

Its a NPHET power play, pure and simple.

Large numbers in the 60 - 69 age group are not fully vaccinated having received just one dose of AZ. 2 weeks is around 600,000 vaccines and by which time that vulnerable cohort would be fully vaccinated

28-06-2021 04:43PM

How the goalposts have shifted.

Originally, the remit of NPHET was to provide advice that helps prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed.

Now their advice is to prevent the spread of the virus, no matter what.

And long gone is the proposal of the government for "Living with COVID".

Also, how stupid is Michael Martin. He has the capacity to leverage political capital from this, by overruling Tony Holohan and allowing society to reopen as planned. If I were him, I would reopen on political grounds alone. Fianna Fail are hemorrhaging enough support as it is.

Scuid Mhór · 28-06-2021 04:44PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Large numbers in the 60 - 69 age group are not fully vaccinated having received just one dose of AZ. 2 weeks is around 600,000 vaccines and by which time that vulnerable cohort would be fully vaccinated

This is correct. People seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that it's a race against time to get the vulnerable vaccinated.

muddypuppy · 28-06-2021 04:44PM

bear1 wrote: »

Meanwhile, in a country which actually had a valid reason to be closed for so long..

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0628/1231717-world-covid/

Italy is currently discussing when discos/night clubs can reopen, while we're pushing back indoor dining.

bear1 · 28-06-2021 04:44PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Large numbers in the 60 - 69 age group are not fully vaccinated having received just one dose of AZ. 2 weeks is around 600,000 vaccines and by which time that vulnerable cohort would be fully vaccinated

To be fair, the poster said most, not all.
Also, does this justify delaying reopening?

28-06-2021 04:45PM

landofthetree wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Brenaghan/status/1409444822495207425

I’m sure, as the critics say, he’s just thirsty. That’s all. That’s why anyone wants pubs reopened. Not that it will save jobs, livelihoods, businesses. Just a “thirst”.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings