Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

charlie14

charlie14 wrote: »

Large numbers in the 60 - 69 age group are not fully vaccinated having received just one dose of AZ. 2 weeks is around 600,000 vaccines and by which time that vulnerable cohort would be fully vaccinated

They can "cocoon" if they wish, or establish their own level of risk. It's only 2-weeks, should they decide to.

One dose does confer significant protection. Of course, not complete protection, but this is no grounds to assume that hospitals will be overwhelmed.

We cannot go forward on the basis that we must prevent every COVID-19 death.

bear1

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

This is correct. People seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that it's a race against time to get the vulnerable vaccinated.

Eh? Vaccines have been around for almost 7 months. My dad only got fully vaccinated last week and he's 65.
I'm 34 and was fully vaccinated 3 weeks before him... in Poland.
It isn't a race against time, they did it in a half arsed way, it was slow from the get go and this is the consequence.

ceadaoin.

namloc1980 wrote: »

Two weeks will have little or no impact on the public health situation, but will have a devastating impact on many businesses who do a lot of their business in the summer. Delaying makes neither scientific nor economic sense. It comes down to Tony and NPHET flexing their power again and they know the government will do what they tell them.

Starting look like this is what certain people who are anti alcohol and who also have the power to put a lot of the industry out of business actually want.

namloc1980

charlie14 wrote: »

Large numbers in the 60 - 69 age group are not fully vaccinated having received just one dose of AZ. 2 weeks is around 600,000 vaccines and by which time that vulnerable cohort would be fully vaccinated

Can anyone in this country exercise any personal responsibility or do we all have to be nannied by the government? Martin should come out and say we are going ahead with reopening. Those aged 60-69 not yet with a second dose should exercise caution for the next few weeks until they have got dose 2. Everyone else can get on with it and crucially get a key sector of the economy open now!

Scuid Mhór

eskimohunt wrote: »

They can "cocoon" if they wish, or establish their own level of risk. It's only 2-weeks, should they decide to.

I'm sorry but this is an incredibly condescending, tone deaf and frankly unrealistic argument. Cocooning was possible when society was properly locked down for eight weeks from March 2020 to May 2020 and no one was going out and doing anything. Cocooning for the average vulnerable person is downright impossible now that everyone else is fed up, no longer cares and just wants to go out and socialise. Unless you live alone, it's impossible to cocoon. And very, very few people live alone.

So tired of seeing an argument built on laziness and complete detachment from the circumstances. The lack of empathy some people have because they miss having a glass of chardonnay inside a restaurant is staggering and enough to render anyone a cynic.

daydorunrun

charlie14 wrote: »

Large numbers in the 60 - 69 age group are not fully vaccinated having received just one dose of AZ. 2 weeks is around 600,000 vaccines and by which time that vulnerable cohort would be fully vaccinated

This is correct. People seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that it's a race against time to get the vulnerable vaccinated.

But indoor dining was open this time last year and a vaccine didn't exist? This cohort of people have had one shot so have some cover to balance out any difference in risk from last year due to Delta. It's a load of B0ll0x.

The survival rate and hospitalization rates of 60-69 who have one shot of vaccine is?

jakiah

charlie14 wrote: »

Large numbers in the 60 - 69 age group are not fully vaccinated having received just one dose of AZ. 2 weeks is around 600,000 vaccines and by which time that vulnerable cohort would be fully vaccinated

Or those lads could isolate for two weeks until they are vaccinated? Literally the whole country stayed locked down to protect them, maybe they could return the favour?

Scuid Mhór

bear1 wrote: »

Eh? Vaccines have been around for almost 7 months. My dad only got fully vaccinated last week and he's 65.
I'm 34 and was fully vaccinated 3 weeks before him... in Poland.
It isn't a race against time, they did it in a half arsed way, it was slow from the get go and this is the consequence.

Nothing that you said is relevant to the point I am making, which is that it's a race against time to get the vulnerable fully vaccinated. The fact that we haven't done it yet doesn't mean anything.

Sofa King Great

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

This is correct. People seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that it's a race against time to get the vulnerable vaccinated.

All the while the non vulnerable people are under restrictions and unvaccinated. When do we reach the personal responsibility stage of all this? We can't keep putting life on hold for an ever dwindling group of unvaccinated vulnerable people

There will always be a minority of the population who enjoy lockdowns, being mothered by the Government, and wearing masks. This is probably for psychological reasons - not showing your face, being told what to do etc., makes anxious people feel more comfortable. I'm confident in the post-pandemic period that much research will be conducted and shown to establish these facts.

But we have to ignore these people, and NPHET, if we want to get our society to re-open.

Scuid Mhór

Sofa King Great wrote: »

All the while the non vulnerable people are under restrictions and unvaccinated. When do we reach the personal responsibility stage of all this? We can't keep putting life on hold for an ever dwindling group of unvaccinated vulnerable people

It's estimated that we can have the second dose astra zenecas done in three weeks. After that we should be good to go.

jakiah

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is an incredibly condescending, tone deaf and frankly unrealistic argument. Cocooning was possible when society was properly locked down for eight weeks from March 2020 to May 2020 and no one was going out and doing anything. Cocooning for the average vulnerable person is downright impossible now that everyone else is fed up, no longer cares and just wants to go out and socialise. Unless you live alone, it's impossible to cocoon. And very, very few people live alone

They could lock themselves in their rooms like everyone else in shared accomodation were asked to during the height of the pandemic.

Scuid Mhór

jakiah wrote: »

They could lock themselves in their rooms like everyone else in shared accomodation were asked to during the height of the pandemic.

Way to miss the point.

Sofa King Great

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

It's estimated that we can have the second dose astra zenecas done in three weeks. After that we should be good to go.

Grand - they won't have to cocoon/isolate/exercise caution for too long so...

Scuid Mhór

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is an incredibly condescending, tone deaf and frankly unrealistic argument. Cocooning was possible when society was properly locked down for eight weeks from March 2020 to May 2020 and no one was going out and doing anything. Cocooning for the average vulnerable person is downright impossible now that everyone else is fed up, no longer cares and just wants to go out and socialise. Unless you live alone, it's impossible to cocoon. And very, very few people live alone.

So tired of seeing an argument built on laziness and complete detachment from the circumstances. The lack of empathy some people have because they miss having a glass of chardonnay inside a restaurant is staggering and enough to render anyone a cynic.

So, your goal is to prevent every single COVID-19 death?

If not, how many deaths/hospitalizations are you willing to accept before we can reopen society?

daydorunrun

eskimohunt wrote: »

There will always be a minority of the population who enjoy lockdowns, being mothered by the Government, and wearing masks. This is probably for psychological reasons - not showing your face, being told what to do etc., makes anxious people feel more comfortable. I'm confident in the post-pandemic period that much research will be conducted and shown to establish these facts.

But we have to ignore these people, and NPHET, if we want to get our society to re-open.

Good few of them are posters here it seems. Not sure how people can still think it's for the best to halt relaxation at this stage!

Lucas Hood

charlie14 wrote: »

Large numbers in the 60 - 69 age group are not fully vaccinated having received just one dose of AZ. 2 weeks is around 600,000 vaccines and by which time that vulnerable cohort would be fully vaccinated

If its justified that way they as well call it a month because it takes 15 days for best protection.

From HSE

How long it takes to work
You will need 2 doses of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.

It takes 3 weeks after getting the 1st dose for it to start to work. Research so far shows that protection after the 1st dose lasts for at least 16 weeks.

It takes 15 days after getting the 2nd dose to have the best protection.

_Kaiser_

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is an incredibly condescending, tone deaf and frankly unrealistic argument. Cocooning was possible when society was properly locked down for eight weeks from March 2020 to May 2020 and no one was going out and doing anything. Cocooning for the average vulnerable person is downright impossible now that everyone else is fed up, no longer cares and just wants to go out and socialise. Unless you live alone, it's impossible to cocoon. And very, very few people live alone.

So tired of seeing an argument built on laziness and complete detachment from the circumstances. The lack of empathy some people have because they miss having a glass of chardonnay inside a restaurant is staggering and enough to render anyone a cynic.

Few things here...

Personal responsibility is, always has been, and absolutely will be key to our response here.

There is no reason whatsoever that those at potential significant risk (or who just don't feel safe) can't limit their engagement with others, restrict unnecessary travel, and use common sense - as I'm sure they've always had to given this group would generally be vulnerable to other health risks too.

It's also nothing to do with people being "fed up" or a lac of empathy. The reality is that we cannot continue to run a country, economy and society on the basis that some people MIGHT get sick, fewer still MIGHT get seriously sick, and even fewer MIGHT unfortunately die. That's neither practical nor realistic.

Life has to go on and so too must we ACTUALLY start living with this virus.

User1998

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is an incredibly condescending, tone deaf and frankly unrealistic argument. Cocooning was possible when society was properly locked down for eight weeks from March 2020 to May 2020 and no one was going out and doing anything. Cocooning for the average vulnerable person is downright impossible now that everyone else is fed up, no longer cares and just wants to go out and socialise. Unless you live alone, it's impossible to cocoon. And very, very few people live alone.

So tired of seeing an argument built on laziness and complete detachment from the circumstances. The lack of empathy some people have because they miss having a glass of chardonnay inside a restaurant is staggering and enough to render anyone a cynic.

They don’t even need to cocoon. They already have one dose of the vaccine. Surely they can just take some personal responsibility for the next couple of weeks? Wear a mask, social distance, avoid crowded settings, stay away from pubs until they get their second dose?

Is that not a reasonable request? Considering us healthy folk have given up over a year of our lives already for a small ungrateful cohort of society?

jakiah

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Way to miss the point.

How did I miss the point? You asked how older people not living alone could cocoon and I told you. Exactly the same way we asked the hundreds of thousands of young people living in shared accomodation to during the pandemic. Except that was for months on end and this is two weeks.

Scuid Mhór

eskimohunt wrote: »

So, your goal is to prevent every single COVID-19 death?

If not, how many deaths/hospitalizations are you willing to accept before we can reopen society?

My goal is simply to vaccinate the vulnerable before we reopen to society so that everyone can be afforded some basic dignity of life before being we reopen and put people at risk when they otherwise wouldn't have to be. If a twenty-something non-vulnerable person wants to go out then before being vaccinated at the risk of a mild case of covid and the possibility of long covid, I won't stop them. When we have the vulnerable vaccinated and protected, there is no need to keep society locked down.

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Other people seem to be ignoring the fact that the vast majority of the vulnerable have at least one dose which still provides protection, that we had indoor dining open last year despite having no vaccines at all, and that other countries have indoor dining open despite being in a similar position to us.

I wonder if the posters sneering at anyone suggesting we'd push things back will apologise now they've been proved wrong (again)?

Will they fúck.

Astra Zeneca one dose provides very, very little protection to the delta variant. A cursory google search would say as much which makes me think you're not particularly interested in the reality of the situation we are facing into over the next month or so. We had indoor dining last year before the variants took hold; the delta variant is way more transmissible and is more likely to cause serious disease and has a much higher mortality rate. People waiting on a second astra zeneca dose deserve the basic right to dignity of life to be afforded a second dose before we reopen and inadvertently put them at risk.

daydorunrun wrote: »

Good few of them are posters here it seems. Not sure how people can still think it's for the best to halt relaxation at this stage!

See above.

Lucas Hood wrote: »

If its justified that way they as well call it a month because it takes 15 days for best protection.

From HSE

That's fair enough, you're probably looking at four weeks or so.

Scuid Mhór

jakiah wrote: »

How did I miss the point? You asked how older people not living alone could cocoon and I told you. Exactly the same way we asked the hundreds of thousands of young people living in shared accomodation to during the pandemic. Except that was for months on end and this is two weeks.

It's not practical to do that when society has reopened nor with the increased transmission rates of the delta variant.

jakiah

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

It's not practical to do that when society has reopened nor with the increased transmission rates of the delta variant.

Says who?

*Edit* this post really boils my blood. Nobody asked our young people in shared accommodation whether their situation was "practical" throughout Covid, they just got on with it.

namloc1980

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is an incredibly condescending, tone deaf and frankly unrealistic argument. Cocooning was possible when society was properly locked down for eight weeks from March 2020 to May 2020 and no one was going out and doing anything. Cocooning for the average vulnerable person is downright impossible now that everyone else is fed up, no longer cares and just wants to go out and socialise. Unless you live alone, it's impossible to cocoon. And very, very few people live alone.

So tired of seeing an argument built on laziness and complete detachment from the circumstances. The lack of empathy some people have because they miss having a glass of chardonnay inside a restaurant is staggering and enough to render anyone a cynic.

Indoor dining in hotels is permitted. 60-69 year olds can go to a hotel from my understanding of it, and just need to exercise caution. Yet we continue to delay indoor dining/drinking elsewhere? Where's the logic in that?

Also we locked down for months on end to protect those vulnerable people but now when we ask could they take personal responsibility for 2 weeks we're being shouted down as having no empathy. Load of nonsense.

zackory

hynesie08 wrote: »

Just shows how useless the vintners association is....

Your post shows how pathethic you are TBH.

Stheno

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Astra Zeneca one dose provides very, very little protection to the delta variant. A cursory google search would say as much which makes me think you're not particularly interested in the reality of the situation we are facing into over the next month or so. We had indoor dining last year before the variants took hold; the delta variant is way more transmissible and is more likely to cause serious disease and has a much higher mortality rate.


o.

https://twitter.com/andrew_croxford/status/1408750033286074371?s=19

Your information is incorrect on hospitalisation at least

bear1

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Nothing that you said is relevant to the point I am making, which is that it's a race against time to get the vulnerable fully vaccinated. The fact that we haven't done it yet doesn't mean anything.

Read it again.

facehugger99

You can be sure of one thing. When the bill for this nonsense is eventually totted up and presented to the Irish taxpayer, the architects of this will be long gone and sitting-pretty with golden pensions.

This is shameful what is being done, absolutely shameful.

zackory

facehugger99 wrote: »

You can be sure of one thing. When the bill for this nonsense is eventually totted up and presented to the Irish taxpayer, the architects of this will be long gone and sitting-pretty with golden pensions.

This is shameful what is being done, absolutely shameful.

100%, and you sense some people are desperate for it to continue, ifs wfh or being on pup or whatever....but it suits them.

hynesie08

zackory wrote: »

Your post shows how pathethic you are TBH.

Feel free to list the ways they've benefitted the people who pay them to represent them?