Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

charlie14 · 27-05-2021 01:50PM

VinLieger wrote: »

They only got it right in hindsight, if the entire cabinet had caught it people would have been screaming blue murder as to why they hadnt been vaccinated. Imo its better to be safer than sorry and they took the populist route instead of the sensible one.

You know as well as I do there would have been people screaming blue murder. Many of them from this thread.
It would also have added to the call from some that they deserved to be pushed up the line for vaccinations which would have quite possibly delayed reopening plans.
IMHO it was the correct call, and the state was not going to collapse if a Minister or two became infected.

27-05-2021 01:50PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Name an expert who has correctly or was closest to predicting the death rate for this virus?

And what death rate did they predict?

Outcome A predicted

Action B Taken

Outcome C occurs.

- Hah, what do they know C happened not A

- But they took action B

- C would have happened anyway, they were wrong

- But B was intended specifically to avoid A and try to achieve C

- It would have happened anyway because unicorns

- OH FFS!

Fandymo · 27-05-2021 01:59PM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Lads its only a little bit longer - just remember that every extra day, every extra odd ball rule, every extra 'careful now', every extra 1930s style trust the dear leader post, are just building energy in the eventual reverse swing of the pendulum.

Its glorious to watch Boris and his gimp boy Hancock get savaged from all angles in the UK. The same is happening on the continent, and today we are starting to see rumblings in the eternally sleepy emerald isle. Its starting to look more and more grim for these political cockwombles who thought that they might come out of this with the same shimmering respect that actual nurses and doctors deserve.

After everything that's been lost, its a small happiness that those who strode so tall on the backs of everyone may now get trampled into the dirt.

You may as well dream here as in bed. There’ll be zero consequences for our fearless leaders

Silentcorner · 27-05-2021 02:13PM

charlie14 wrote: »

That is not really the point.

You have been arguing that those with alternative views should be listened too as well. I have no problem with that, but it does not give your argument a lot of credence when you have up until the last few days been pushing the alternative views of one "expert" in particular where even primary school level mathematics clearly shows how wrong this "expert" has been from a long way back.

So just to be clear, you have no hesitation ridiculing the work of experts in the field who do not advocate lock downs and you can't name an expert in the field who has accurately predicted the death rate from this virus!!!!

He, like any expert who doesn't advocate for lock downs he gets castigated...we see it time and again, in particular in the US where he is based.

We also see it here, no one who does not advocate for lock downs is given any meaningful exposure yet they hysterical predictions of our experts are all over the media and never questioned.

You cannot name the expert who has been most accurate in predicting the death rate of this virus 14 months into this pandemic....and you think that is perfectly fine? Does that not ring alarm bells in that head of yours?

You consistently lambast Ionannidis, widely regarded as one of the worlds leading experts...you have previously described the work of known leading experts in this field in Stanford and Harvard in a derogatory manner.

And you can't name an expert who has been accurately predicting the death rate and behaviour of this virus...when does the penny drop?

Silentcorner · 27-05-2021 02:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Outcome A predicted

Action B Taken

Outcome C occurs.

- Hah, what do they know C happened not A

- But they took action B

- C would have happened anyway, they were wrong

- But B was intended specifically to avoid A and try to achieve C

- It would have happened anyway because unicorns

- OH FFS!

So again, just to be clear, you can't name an expert either....another one just following the flock!!

27-05-2021 02:16PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

So again, just to be clear, you can't name an expert either....another one just following the flock!!

This is f*ckin tedious

Boggles · 27-05-2021 02:29PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Typical double speak...predictable really.

I don't think you know what double speak means.

Absolutely nothing ambiguous about the post quoted.

Couldn't be clearer.

VinLieger · 27-05-2021 02:31PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

So again, just to be clear, you can't name an expert either....another one just following the flock!!

Why are you treating experts like they are some kind of weird team sport?

Boggles · 27-05-2021 02:49PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Ya, but nobody seems willing to look at the 2 six week surges the data so blatantly reveals....wonder why?

Who put that in your head? Or at least which qualified professional backs up that theory and where?

And please don't say you came up with yourself.

Silentcorner · 27-05-2021 02:52PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Why are you treating experts like they are some kind of weird team sport?

Two reasons.

One

Because we are only being exposed to one type of expert, the one's that are predicting carnage.

It's important because of the extreme measure's we've all been subjected to, the public are not hearing from experts who do not advocate lock downs, one of the reasons they don't is because of the health issues they are creating, health issues that are much more likely to affect much more of us than any one is willing to publicly admit to.

Two

Because a number of posters here have no problem being dismissive and insulting to any expert who doesn't advocate lock downs, and yet will not offer up the name of an expert who has proven themselves to be accurate in their predictions on how the virus will behave and the death rate.

We've had 14 months of wall to wall coverage of this pandemic, you'd imagine there'd be one stand out expert people could name.

PTH2009 · 27-05-2021 02:56PM

Suppose a few leaks will appear tonight

Silentcorner · 27-05-2021 02:58PM

Boggles wrote: »

Who put that in your head? Or at least which qualified professional backs up that theory and where?

And please don't say you came up with yourself.

Are you kidding me.

The data that is available to all of us.

There were two periods when we only tested people who were displaying symptoms.

During those periods we were not catching the asymptomatic cases, but we still recorded huge numbers.

Those two periods are caused the surge in hospitalizations and ICU occupancy. This would also be evident in the death rates.

How can you not see it? It's right there in the data....

27-05-2021 02:59PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Two reasons.

One

Because we are only being exposed to one type of expert, the one's that are predicting carnage.

It's important because of the extreme measure's we've all been subjected to, the public are not hearing from experts who do not advocate lock downs, one of the reasons they don't is because of the health issues they are creating, health issues that are much more likely to affect much more of us than any one is willing to publicly admit to.

Two

Because a number of posters here have no problem being dismissive and insulting to any expert who doesn't advocate lock downs, and yet will not offer up the name of an expert who has proven themselves to be accurate in their predictions on how the virus will behave and the death rate.

We've had 14 months of wall to wall coverage of this pandemic, you'd imagine there'd be one stand our expert people could name.

Is a blatant attempt at "prove the impossible to prove or everything you believe is proved wrong" and is utterly contemptible

Boggles · 27-05-2021 03:08PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Are you kidding me.

The data that is available to all of us.

There were two periods when we only tested people who were displaying symptoms.

During those periods we were not catching the asymptomatic cases, but we still recorded huge numbers.

Those two periods are caused the surge in hospitalizations and ICU occupancy. This would also be evident in the death rates.

How can you not see it? It's right there in the data....

Hang on, as you have said several times on here you are not qualified to interrupt such data, as you keep saying you are just a normal person giving your opinion.

So you are telling me you came up with the "6 week surge" theory on your own and no professional in any relevant field has verified or backed up your theory?

Silentcorner · 27-05-2021 03:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Is a blatant attempt at "prove the impossible to prove or everything you believe is proved wrong" and is utterly contemptible

All I'm asking is the name of an expert who has proven themselves to be accurate, that is what you expect of experts is it not....that is not much to ask of people who have no problem being insulting and derogatory to any expert who doesn't advocate lock downs.

Hardly something that could be considered utterly contemptible, but that emotive language is quiet typical of you.

Silentcorner · 27-05-2021 03:16PM

Boggles wrote: »

Hang on, as you have said several times on here you are not qualified to interrupt such data, as you keep saying you are just a normal person giving your opinion.

So you are telling me you came up with the "6 week surge" theory on your own and no professional in any relevant field has verified or backed up your theory?

I posted up a link to a local doctor who I heard on local radio predicting what would happen back in Sept/Oct...that doctor was proven correct, he was also sacked from his position in the HSE for publicly criticizing lock downs....that doctor (who's name escapes me) was ridiculed by posters on here at the time.

It is why, back in Jan, people like me were predicting the end of the surge by the end of January.

It is why, when you look at the case numbers over the 14 months,, two surges are evident.

They also occurred during our flu season.

It helps to listen to people with alternate views.

It's why I'm not remotely worried about variants, I was watching the youtube content of a guy who posted daily videos mentioning variants of all sorts all last summer.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dr+john+campbell

I found him to be completely unpolitical and unbiased and very informative even if he was informing me of elements I didn't want to hear!

Boggles · 27-05-2021 03:22PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

I posted up a link to a local doctor who I heard on local radio predicting what would happen back in Sept/Oct...that doctor was proven correct, he was also sacked from his position in the HSE for publicly criticizing lock downs....that doctor (who's name escapes me) was ridiculed by posters on here at the time.

Are we not talking about January?

Silentcorner wrote: »

It is why, back in Jan, people like me were predicting the end of the surge by the end of January.

Link?

Didn't you also predict the pandemic ended last summer, or was that someone else?

So to recap, the "6 week surge theory" is firmly your own, not backed up by anyone?

27-05-2021 03:23PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

All I'm asking is the name of an expert who has proven themselves to be accurate, that is what you expect of experts is it not....that is not much to ask of people who have no problem being insulting and derogatory to any expert who doesn't advocate lock downs.

Hardly something that could be considered utterly contemptible, but that emotive language is quiet typical of you.

Knock yourself out

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0250935

Much of the discussion around communicating forecasts in the COVID-19 pandemic has centered around tradeoffs in communicating uncertainty with respect to public trust. For example, in some contexts downplaying uncertainties may shore up public trust in the short term, but confident predictions that later turn out to be wrong may reduce public trust in science. Overall, our results underscore a need for individuals with expertise in fields relevant to forecasting epidemiological outcomes (and who communicate about these forecasts publicly) to consider broad ranges of possible outcomes as plausible, and to consider communicating this high level of uncertainty to nonexperts. The ultimate message may be that “the experts have much to learn, but they also have much to teach” .

Given the continued impact of COVID-19 and risks of other future pandemics, further research into improved epidemiological forecasting may prove vital. In the meantime, we must all learn to acknowledge and admit that the uncertainties may be greater than we think they are, whether we are experts or not.

Silentcorner · 27-05-2021 03:28PM

Boggles wrote: »

Are we not talking about January?

Link?

Didn't you also predict the pandemic ended last summer, or was that someone else?

So to recap, the "6 week surge theory" is firmly your own, not backed up by anyone?

Boggles, what are you struggling with here.

I just told you I heard a doctor predict back in Sept/Oct what would happen the coming winter, he did not predict when the surge would occur. He was basing his prediction on how the flu behaves every year. That has been the most accurate predictor I've come across.

Boggles · 27-05-2021 03:34PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Boggles, what are you struggling with here.

I just told you I heard a doctor predict back in Sept/Oct what would happen the coming winter, he did not predict when the surge would occur. He was basing his prediction on how the flu behaves every year. That has been the most accurate predictor I've come across.

So you have based your theory on this doctor you heard on the radio but you can't think of his name?

You are struggling here lad.

I asked you 2 straight simple questions and you haven't been able to offer any answer.

Will I bother asking again?

Silentcorner · 27-05-2021 03:35PM

Boggles wrote: »

Absolutely nothing ambiguous about the post quoted.

Couldn't be clearer.

Complete nonsense.

Killeen was virtually unknown until March 2020.

We have all seen his outlandish predictions, he has been linked to the psychos in ISAG who have been caught orchestrating a campaign of fear and anxiety on the population of this country.

He is a disgrace.

Silentcorner · 27-05-2021 03:42PM

Boggles wrote: »

So you have based your theory on this doctor you heard on the radio but you can't think of his name?

You are struggling here lad.

I asked you 2 straight simple questions and you haven't been able to offer any answer.

Will I bother asking again?

I don't have any theory, you are tying yourself in knots trying to undermine me, and embarrassing yourself as you do it.

The flu does the same thing every year, rips through the population over a six week period jamming up the hospitals...this doctor, a link to whom was provided on this thread a number of months ago, sees it every year without fail.

But he doesn't advocate lock downs as he was seeing a number of people showing up in his surgery with lock down related issues.

Which is why he was removed from his position in the HSE...not becuase he wasn't a good or competent doctor, but he fundamentally disagreed with lock down policy.

We've seen what happens to people working in the health sector who don't advocate lock downs.

Boggles · 27-05-2021 03:48PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

I don't have any theory, you are tying yourself in knots trying to undermine me, and embarrassing yourself as you do it.

The flu does the same thing every year, rips through the population over a six week period jamming up the hospitals...this doctor, a link to whom was provided on this thread a number of months ago, sees it every year without fail.

But he doesn't advocate lock downs as he was seeing a number of people showing up in his surgery with lock down related issues.

Which is why he was removed from his position in the HSE...not becuase he wasn't a good or competent doctor, but he fundamentally disagreed with lock down policy.

We've seen what happens to people working in the health sector who don't advocate lock downs.

Hang on, was that the herd immunity lad or the anti vax lad?

Silentcorner · 27-05-2021 03:48PM

Boggles wrote: »

Hang on, was that the herd immunity lad?

Honestly, I don't know why I bother...I blame myself!

27-05-2021 03:50PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

I don't have any theory, you are tying yourself in knots trying to undermine me, and embarrassing yourself as you do it.

The flu does the same thing every year, rips through the population over a six week period jamming up the hospitals...this doctor, a link to whom was provided on this thread a number of months ago, sees it every year without fail.

But he doesn't advocate lock downs as he was seeing a number of people showing up in his surgery with lock down related issues.

Which is why he was removed from his position in the HSE...not becuase he wasn't a good or competent doctor, but he fundamentally disagreed with lock down policy.

We've seen what happens to people working in the health sector who don't advocate lock downs.

Silentconer:
"the broken clock said it was 8am this morning and was right at that time therefore its 8am now"

Everyone else
"but its 3:50pm now"

Silentcorner
"Your watch was 5 minutes slow at 8am this morning so its definitely wrong."

Everyone else
"but the difference was noted and adjusted accordingly"

Silentcorner
"It was wrong this morning, so cant ever be trusted to tell the time again. I will go with the one I knew was right this morning"

Boggles · 27-05-2021 03:55PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Honestly, I don't know why I bother...I blame myself!

So the herd immunity lad?

You have based your entire theory on him?

Okay.

Silentcorner · 27-05-2021 03:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Silentconer:
"the broken clock said it was 8am this morning and was right at that time therefore its 8am now"

Everyone else
"but its 3:50pm now"

Silentcorner
"Your watch was 5 minutes slow at 8am this morning so its definitely wrong."

Everyone else
"but the difference was noted and adjusted accordingly"

Silentcorner
"It was wrong this morning, so cant ever be trusted to tell the time again. I will go with the one I knew was right this morning"

What a boring take on another cliche from you.

Silentcorner · 27-05-2021 03:58PM

Boggles wrote: »

So the herd immunity lad?

You have based your entire theory on him?

Okay.

Stop howling at the moon.

He didn't ever mention herd immunity....you just have to inject whatever nasty term you think undermines a point.

charlie14 · 27-05-2021 04:04PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

So just to be clear, you have no hesitation ridiculing the work of experts in the field who do not advocate lock downs and you can't name an expert in the field who has accurately predicted the death rate from this virus!!!!

He, like any expert who doesn't advocate for lock downs he gets castigated...we see it time and again, in particular in the US where he is based.

We also see it here, no one who does not advocate for lock downs is given any meaningful exposure yet they hysterical predictions of our experts are all over the media and never questioned.

You cannot name the expert who has been most accurate in predicting the death rate of this virus 14 months into this pandemic....and you think that is perfectly fine? Does that not ring alarm bells in that head of yours?

You consistently lambast Ionannidis, widely regarded as one of the worlds leading experts...you have previously described the work of known leading experts in this field in Stanford and Harvard in a derogatory manner.

And you can't name an expert who has been accurately predicting the death rate and behaviour of this virus...when does the penny drop?

Not at all.
I have no problem with anyone who can give a coherent alternative to lockdown with data to back it up.
I do have a problem with grifters like Ionannidis and Giesecke who pushed their natural herd immunity rubbish who have been shown to be wrong, who have never held their hands up and admitted it, and with people who still peddle their absolute rubbish as if it ever was a viable alternative.

Ionannidis`s whole snake oil premise was based on infection rates equating to herd immunity. That if you took the number of confirmed case, multiplied by 50-85 that was the real level of numbers infected, and thus the number that had acquired immunity.

If he was anywhere near correct even at the lower level of 50 we would have reached herd immunity with 100,000 confirmed cases. 59,000 at the higher level of 85. We currently have 259,863 confirmed case and no herd immunity.
Neither has any country on the planet based on his "expertise". It was bunkum, still is, yet you are still on pushing this clown as someone who had a viable solution to lockdown.

I presume your inquiry about predicted death rates is in relation to infection fatality rates (IFR).
Another piece of mathematical nonsense similar to that of Ionannidis and Giesecke on acquired herd immunity that was used primarily by those attempting to downplay this virus.

VinLieger · 27-05-2021 04:04PM

Boggles wrote: »

So the herd immunity lad?

You have based your entire theory on him?

Okay.

De Brun verges on being anti-vax at times too tbh

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings