How is China getting on?

caoty · 13-05-2021 12:43am

Flinty997 wrote: »

Who claiming the virus would be fully defeated?

The idea is that lockdown and containment is a stop gap until you get herd immunity with a vaccine. That brings the number of cases down to a manageable level so you can exit lockdown and resume normal activities. It's not that the virus disappears.

China opened up before the vaccines. That's what people are reporting here, that is all back to normal in China and no sign of any cases.

The opposite happened here first lockdown worked well, but as soon as we relaxed it exploded and it's taken almost 6 months to get back to where we were. We needed the vaccine to get there aswell. Chinese didn't.

Amazing really.

Nothing amazing really, just common sense and determination. The following are what China did to contain/eliminate the pandemic/virus which can be replicated anywhere else in common sense terms：

1. Greatly restrict the number of incoming international travellers to a "manageable" level. Test ALL of incoming international travellers and quarantine ALL of them for 14 days at least. Treat ALL positive cases and quarantine them again after treatment.
2. Lock down locally for 28 days so that there is no transmission spreads to other cities/places and the transmission is terminated locally too where there is a outbreak. Test ALL residents locally. Treat ALL cases and quarantine ALL positive cases.
3. Keep testing and tracing positive cases and quarantine them until no positive cases appear locally.
4. Install "border" controls at all cities/areas outside the "lock down" city/area to test ALL who have travelled from the "infected" city/area.
5. Lower and remove the domestic restrictions until NO LOCAL positive cases appear for a period.
6. Lower and remove the international restrictions when the pandemic is over.

Learn from the inevitable mistakes on the way, improve and strengthen the system.

13-05-2021 1:29am

The tracing has been the the big thing. What did Ireland do? Something like the previous three days and the average number of contacts was two? I've seen one case here result in over twenty thousand traced.

My girlfriend's dad is currently one of many many F2s and will be tested if the F1 he met at a meeting tests positive. That person will be tested multiple times, and my girlfriend will go from F3 to F2 and will be tested if her dad tests positive.

Anyways, I don't see any point in continuing trying to discuss this with the new troll. Asking how it could possibly be reintroduced to places after me explaining that illegal crossings and quarantine failures happen. They admit they know nothing, and because they know nothing, can only apply Ireland's measures to other countries, and feign surprise that they have the ability to eradicate a virus. It's tedious bullshlt.

Flinty997 · 13-05-2021 1:31am

Only flaw in that, is that they don't consider asymptomatic carriers as positive cases or as infectious, they don't count them in their stats.

They are still getting new cases and breakouts. Only now they are (conveniently) only coming from external sources Which shouldn't be possible due the strict border controls and litany of other measures you've listed.

So how's China doing. Great.

Flinty997 · 13-05-2021 1:48am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...... that they have the ability to eradicate a virus. ...

Well if it's possible to eradicate the virus (we were told on this thread it wasn't but now it is) and their controls work, (though you seem to be suggesting they aren't perfect) then there is no problem.

13-05-2021 2:00am

Flinty997 wrote: »

Well if it's possible to eradicate the virus (we were told on this thread it wasn't but now it is) and their controls work, (though you seem to be suggesting they aren't perfect) then there is no problem.

Of course they aren't perfect. But they do work well enough to get rid of the virus for long periods of time.

Your argument seems to stem around Chinese people being stupid, and you think they and the millions of foreigners there don't have the ability to speak online about their experiences. As if they would go to pool parties in Wuhan while a pandemic is supposedly being hidden from the world and expose themselves to Covid-19. It doesn't make sense. Or me going to school with 5,000 students with no masks, while their families die at home. It doesn't make sense.

Asian people don't have this Western ambivalence to the disease. They've had SARS etc. and immediately change their behaviour. Where I live, the only people I see out without masks the last two weeks are dickhead white people. The looks they get makes me embarrassed to be remotely associated with them.

Flinty997 · 13-05-2021 2:42am

No my argument is, if you can't have the perfect border, and it only take one person to be a super spreader. Then mass events and normal movements must spread the virus.

Wearings masks is only one of the recommendations. Social distancing is just as important. People have already said things are back to normal and that means they are no longer social distancing. So thats ambivalence to social distancing, but not ambivalence to mask wearing. Consistent as ever.

The first lock down I knew no one with Covid. Since the surge after Xmas I know quite a few. None have died that I know of. I don't take that to mean no one has died, or its not real. I know a few Chinese people, and would ask after their families. None of them have died either.

So I'm not sure why simply asking about odd inconsistencies in China, means I think half the country has died. Why would I think that. Makes no sense.

13-05-2021 3:01am

You're not asking sincere questions, and you're not accepting anything that's being said. You simply believe something and refuse to be swayed by anything people in these countries are saying. No one actually living in these places is crying conspiracy but you are.

Flinty997 · 13-05-2021 3:10am

Rather the opposite, I'm accepting what people are saying at face value.
I'm just pointing out what posted in this thread is often contradictory.

For example I'd just assumed based on comments in this thread that, China would be ahead of the game when it came to vaccinations.
Surprised to hear it isn't and its hardly on the radar in these this thread. Or that the priority for vaccines is not the high risk group. the elderly.

13-05-2021 3:19am

Flinty997 wrote: »

Rather the opposite, I'm accepting what people are saying at face value.
I'm just pointing out its often contradictory. I'm only going by whats posted in this thread.

Your idea of a contradiction is that a country gets rid of it and then it comes back. You are being purposefully ignorant of the reasons it can come back, even though they are both obvious and documented.

caoty · 13-05-2021 3:36am

Flinty997 wrote: »

Only flaw in that, is that they don't consider asymptomatic carriers as positive cases or as infectious, they don't count them in their stats.

They are still getting new cases and breakouts. Only now they are (conveniently) only coming from external sources Which shouldn't be possible due the strict border controls and litany of other measures you've listed.

So how's China doing. Great.

Whether asymptomatic carriers are counted as infected cases or not is a matter of statistical standard which does not change the state of the pandemic/infection on the ground a bit!

The new cases in China at this stage come from two sources:
1 International travellers who test positive（imported）. They are counted towards China's new cases daily. These people are treated if necessary and quarantined.

2. Domestic cases. There are two possibilities. The first is domestic residents who are asymptomatic carriers but have somehow escaped the tracing and testing net. Recovered cases can turn positive too. The existence of asymptomatic carriers are a matter of reality to continue until the pandemic is over. But they are not that much dangerous if correct measures(above) are taken.

The other possibility is that domestic residents are infected by contacting personnel and/or goods coming into China. (This actually was indeed the cause of one of the mini outbreaks in China last year) As the system is improved overtime and the vaccination process continues (all people who need to contact personnel and goods from outside China are vaccinated), this source of infection is contained.

When you look at the daily Chinese new cases number, better check how many of them are domestic originated and how many are imported. For example, there were 9 new cases reported in China on 12th of May, 2021 in 7 provinces/cities, all of them are imported, no new domestic case (this is the reason why the Chinese, in millions, could move freely over the May holiday season without much fear). Currently, there are 269 imported cases under treatment in total in China of which one case is in serious condition. The total imported cases are 5810 of which 5541 cases have recovered and got out of quarantine.

Well, if you are a firm believer that anything positive from China is fake and manipulated, then I rest my case.

clever user name · 13-05-2021 5:31am

caoty wrote: »

this is the reason why the Chinese, in millions, could move freely over the May holiday season without much fear.

Hundreds of millions. Everyone and their mom went somewhere during the holiday. I went to Chongqing and it was an absolute s**t show, so many damn people. But aside from the carnage of that many people travelling, as you mentioned, the reason so many people did it was because it is safe to do so.

Life is back to normal here, and has been for quite some time now.

Flinty997 · 13-05-2021 8:02am

caoty wrote: »

....

The other possibility is that domestic residents are infected by contacting personnel and/or goods coming into China. (This actually was indeed the cause of one of the mini outbreaks in China last year) .....

Do you mean the salmon. If not what specifically...

Flinty997 · 13-05-2021 8:21am

caoty wrote: »

Whether asymptomatic carriers are counted as infected cases or not is a matter of statistical standard which does not change the state of the pandemic/infection on the ground a bit!

The new cases in China at this stage come from two sources:
1 International travellers who test positive（imported）. They are counted towards China's new cases daily. These people are treated if necessary and quarantined.

2. Domestic cases. There are two possibilities. The first is domestic residents who are asymptomatic carriers but have somehow escaped the tracing and testing net. Recovered cases can turn positive too. The existence of asymptomatic carriers are a matter of reality to continue until the pandemic is over. But they are not that much dangerous if correct measures(above) are taken.

.....

Asymptomatic carriers matter if they are infectious, no?

If International travellers are quarantined then outbreaks can't come from them. No?

That leaves domestic cases. Considering we don't know how it started in the first place. No way to know that source has been eliminated. But ingnoring that. If you have a few of these, just appearing, and millions of people moving around. The system has to check these millions of people daily as they move around. You think it has to spread it even if all these people have no symptoms.

But what we are saying is it appears overnight and is caught before it spreads, and/or that people without symptoms don't spread it.

How do they test these people with no symptoms and catch them.

Flinty997 · 13-05-2021 9:08am

thebaz wrote: »

I'm assuming nothing , I merly asked the question how the virus originated ??

It has not definitvly been proven to have started in a wet market, it could have been an accident - I dont believe the Chinese goverment intentionally caused the pandemic, but I would like some answers on how it started - not going to get that answer here I know.

You won't get it anywhere, the reasons why are listed here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigations_into_the_origin_of_COVID-19#World_Health_Organization_investigations

All we know is the first outbreak was Wuhan. Though if it was imported, you'd have expected an outbreak where ever it was imported from.

archer22 · 13-05-2021 10:24am

You could sum up the different responses by looking at hospital building as an example.

China built a hospital in a week!.

Ireland after 10 years has a hole in the ground with ever spiralling costs.

archer22 · 13-05-2021 10:32am

And I am struggling here with crap 'broadband' to put up these simple short posts, inspite of hundreds of millions of taxpayers money being paid out on some "national broadband scheme" :rolleyes:

Flinty997 · 13-05-2021 10:39am

China has a long history of such feats.

In WWII they built lots of airfields and runways for B29 bombers by hand, or their famous Treasure ships in the 15th? Century.

Flinty997 · 13-05-2021 10:43am

archer22 wrote: »

And I am struggling here with crap 'broadband' to put up these simple short posts, inspite of hundreds of millions of taxpayers money being paid out on some "national broadband scheme" :rolleyes:

"if the mountain won't come to Muhammad, then Muhammad must go to the mountain”

archer22 · 13-05-2021 10:44am

Flinty997 wrote: »

China has a long history of such feats.

In WWII they built lots of airfields and runways for B29 bombers by hand, or their famous Treasure ships in the 15th? Century.

Yep and the Great Wall.

Supercell · 13-05-2021 1:57pm

I used to tell my wife bofore all this that everytime I went for a coffee in Starbucks above the Tiyu Xilu station in Guangzhou that I could see another new skyscraper built, there was was about a year to a year and a half between visits, they really dont hang about there when they want to get stuff done.

Personally I'm not surprised they have, by and large, contained COVID to Wuhan given how the government can mobilise when they need to.

My wife was telling me yesterday that they are vaccinating by city and whilst all her friends in Wuhan (where she is from originally) were very keen to get vaccinated, her friends that now live in Shanghai and Guangzhou far less so as they dont see the need.

snotboogie · 13-05-2021 2:02pm

clever user name wrote: »

Hundreds of millions. Everyone and their mom went somewhere during the holiday. I went to Chongqing and it was an absolute s**t show, so many damn people. But aside from the carnage of that many people travelling, as you mentioned, the reason so many people did it was because it is safe to do so.

Life is back to normal here, and has been for quite some time now.

How is life back to normal if the other poster living in China is embarrassed to see foreigners outdoors without masks?

13-05-2021 3:08pm

snotboogie wrote: »

How is life back to normal if the other poster living in China is embarrassed to see foreigners outdoors without masks?

Life is back to normal, in that they can go shopping, go to bars, visit the cinema, etc. Needing to wear a mask is hardly any real inconvenience, all things considered.

The part about foreigners is due to the negative reputations that foreigners often receive due to the behavior of others. Stereotypes abound since most Chinese never have much exposure to foreigners, beyond a few extremely basic conversations. The negative behavior of foreigners reflects on us all... especially when you're living in a less modern city. So, while Shanghai will have a large foreign community, and there is a greater awareness of foreign culture, the same can't be said for somewhere like Xian where most foreigners are simply tourists, and few Chinese get to interact with them. Foreigners who break the rules, act out, or engage in negative behavior, make living in China harder for the rest of us...

joseywhales · 13-05-2021 3:42pm

thebaz wrote: »

or you could see it as a way of not blaming the Chinese people for accusations of negligense or misinformation, but the CCP have questions to answer, given damage caused to rest of world. How virus originated is a legitimate and important question, since we dont want it to happen again.

I would assume people reference ccp because they do not see them as representatives of the chinese people, since they are not democratically elected with universal suffrage. So as you say to avoid holding the people responsible for actions of their rulers rather than their representatives as would be the case in Ireland. We are somewhat responsible for the actions of MM and the rest of the leadership.

13-05-2021 3:43pm

snotboogie wrote: »

How is life back to normal if the other poster living in China is embarrassed to see foreigners outdoors without masks?

That's me in Vietnam posting here since the measure have been the same. We're back in lockdown here.

caoty · 13-05-2021 11:38pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

Do you mean the salmon. If not what specifically...

Yes, the "salmon" story is one of them. Contaminated imported goods are one source of infection, so are incoming foreigners and Chinese nationals.

The Chinese system is working but it is not perfect. No system is perfect. So there are always loopholes which require continuous improvement. What matters is whether the government takes actions or not!

For example, in the early stage of last year, the border control was loose at some remote places in northeast China which allowed some returning Chinese national from Russia into the residential area without testing and quarantine. There were a couple of outbreaks in that region. That resulted in local lock-downs applied, border control strengthened and responsible officials disciplined and removed. In another case, there was a mini-outbreak in southwest China this year, a city borders Myanmar. The border control there was not strict enough, some Myanmarese have been sneaking through and triggered three local outbreaks in half a year (the infected cases in total was less than 100). The top leader of that city was sacked in April.

"Gong Yunzun was demoted to first-level researcher after three outbreaks in city on Myanmar border, say Yunnan authorities
Two rounds of mass testing and vaccination drive in place to try to control outbreak"

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3128727/coronavirus-border-city-chief-dismissed-covid-19-failures-ruili
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-04/08/c_139866525.htm

Now, let's take a look at the so-called "democratic" places where "check-and-balance" is allegedly the "advantage" over the "CCP China". Name one official who has been disciplined and/or sacked in any one of these places, be it the US, the UK, India, Brazil, Italy, France or Germany, etc. where people's lives have been lost due to, partly to say the least, the irresponsible and incompetent behaviour of their "leaders", local or national. Modi of India is the latest example! Where is the check and balance?

Flinty997 · 14-05-2021 7:42am

caoty wrote: »

Yes, the "salmon" story is one of them. Contaminated imported goods are one source of infection...

That was investigated and eventually even China said it wasn't a source.

So either they made a mistake, which raises all sorts of questions, or it was invented deliberately. Either way the story did it's job. Which might have been the intention all along. Maybe not.

Let's assume it wasn't deliberate and ignore that. The objective of the investigation was to find the source and close it off. But the end result is that wasn't achieved. Which means it's still there.

No system is perfect. For sure.

For some reason every discussion on this thread is constantly deflected into talk if other countries. Not entirely sure why. In Ireland disaster as it is, we do know the first source of Covid here ..

....On 27 February, the first case on the island of Ireland was announced—a woman from Belfast who had travelled from Northern Italy through Dublin Airport.[48] Two days later, on 29 February, the first confirmed case in the Republic of Ireland was announced involving a male student from the east of the country, who had arrived there from Northern Italy....

That said we never closed our borders. Which was a massive failing. As a result we've let every new strain in. We are still doing this.

Flinty997 · 14-05-2021 7:51am

thebaz wrote: »

I'm assuming nothing , I merly asked the question how the virus originated ??
...

The answer to that is China is grand. Everywhere else is worse. Look at how bad everywhere else is. Look how bad the west is. So can you stop asking....

caoty · 16-05-2021 8:12am

thebaz wrote: »

I'm assuming nothing , I merly asked the question how the virus originated ??

It has not definitely been proven to have started in a wet market, it could have been an accident - I dont believe the Chinese goverment intentionally caused the pandemic, but I would like some answers on how it started - not going to get that answer here I know.

"The Spanish Flu did not “originate in Spain". It was brought to Europe by the US forces during WWI and ravaged the trenches as the authorities ducked it under the carpet in order to keep the war going.

Spain ended up being the first country hit and started tracking diseases. And so the others acted as if the origin were Spain and they were just learning about this thing. It got to Spain from France months after the Americans had brought it to France from their country. The Americans, the French, the British and the Germans all had soldiers falling like flies in silence by the time Spain started to publish honest data. Their press dubbed it “the Spanish Flu", transversally, central powers and allies, putting aside their mutual murder to pretend the flue had just popped up in Spain. And if Spain had kept the lie going, it would have been named after the first country doing honest reporting.

Viruses originate by random mutations without care for flags, people, place or anything non-biological. "

DaSilva · 16-05-2021 12:40pm

caoty wrote: »

"The Spanish Flu did not “originate in Spain". It was brought to Europe by the US forces during WWI and ravaged the trenches as the authorities ducked it under the carpet in order to keep the war going.

Spain ended up being the first country hit and started tracking diseases. And so the others acted as if the origin were Spain and they were just learning about this thing. It got to Spain from France months after the Americans had brought it to France from their country. The Americans, the French, the British and the Germans all had soldiers falling like flies in silence by the time Spain started to publish honest data. Their press dubbed it “the Spanish Flu", transversally, central powers and allies, putting aside their mutual murder to pretend the flue had just popped up in Spain. And if Spain had kept the lie going, it would have been named after the first country doing honest reporting.

Viruses originate by random mutations without care for flags, people, place or anything non-biological. "

Of course its possible it emerged somewhere else, but given the current evidence it most likely emerged somewhere in China.
Evidence for that is:
1) First large outbreak occurred in China, this is not a virus that can remain invisible for long.
2) Similar viruses have been isolated in wild animal populations in China.
3) China was the location for previous outbreak of a similar virus (sars).

The biggest factor is chance, and China is a big place with a lot of people so unfortunately it will always have a greater chance of being the location of such events than smaller countries with smaller populations.

So yeah, sars-cov-2 could have been brought by the US military to Wuhan :rolleyes:, or it could have emerged in Europe and been sent on food packaging to Wuhan where it subsequently mutated into the pandemic strain :rolleyes:, or you know, the simpler option, it could have simply emerged in China.

16-05-2021 12:53pm

DaSilva wrote: »

Of course its possible it emerged somewhere else, but given the current evidence it most likely emerged somewhere in China.

You're using different vocabulary to what the quoted piece used, with obviously different connotations.

It emerged in China, which is obvious. The post you quoted referred to where it originated.

How is China getting on?

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