How is China getting on?

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

My range was hyperbole fair enough. But I would question whether we can rely on chinese citizens and ex pats to accurately tell us what is happening in China. For example without the UN human rights commission would we know that the ccp is interning 1.3 million in Xinjiang per year. According to media there, they are in vocational retraining,
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3101986/china-claims-vocational-training-given-nearly-13-million-people

So if I ask my Irish or British friend living in Shanghai for example, would they have been able to expose to me that in fact these are internment camps, targeting muslims where people get beaten and tortured without ever having been convicted of a crime?

That seems like a pretty big lie to cover up. In fact it seems a much bigger issue than the effects of covid even. So why would I trust the ccp?

They're entirely different things. There's no reason an Irish guy in Beijing would know anything about the Uyghurs. But they're obviously going to know if a pandemic is happening or not.

I doubt you yourself would notice Muslims disappearing off the streets in Ireland if it were happening.

EddieN75

"China approved the construction of a further 36.9 GW of coal-fired capacity last year, three times more than a year earlier, bringing the total under construction to 88.1 GW. It now has 247 GW of coal power under development, enough to supply the whole of Germany"


https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-new-coal-power-plant-capacity-2020-more-than-3-times-rest-worlds-study-2021-02-03/#:~:text=EnergyChina's new coal power,times rest of world's - study&text=China approved the construction of,under construction to 88.1 GW.


Carbon taxes are increasing in Ireland in a week's time.

EddieN75

EddieN75 wrote: »

"China approved the construction of a further 36.9 GW of coal-fired capacity last year, three times more than a year earlier, bringing the total under construction to 88.1 GW. It now has 247 GW of coal power under development, enough to supply the whole of Germany"


https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-new-coal-power-plant-capacity-2020-more-than-3-times-rest-worlds-study-2021-02-03/#:~:text=EnergyChina's%20new%20coal%20power,times%20rest%20of%20world's%20%2D%20study&text=China%20approved%20the%20construction%20of,under%20construction%20to%2088.1%20GW.


Carbon taxes are increasing in Ireland in a week's time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

If Biden succeeds in his 2030 52% reduction, the US will be getting in line with China. Ireland is currently the same as them.

MikeSoys

EddieN75 wrote: »

"China approved the construction of a further 36.9 GW of coal-fired capacity last year, three times more than a year earlier, bringing the total under construction to 88.1 GW. It now has 247 GW of coal power under development, enough to supply the whole of Germany"


https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-new-coal-power-plant-capacity-2020-more-than-3-times-rest-worlds-study-2021-02-03/#:~:text=EnergyChina's%20new%20coal%20power,times%20rest%20of%20world's%20%2D%20study&text=China%20approved%20the%20construction%20of,under%20construction%20to%2088.1%20GW.


Carbon taxes are increasing in Ireland in a week's time.

Thats awful, there was allot of talk this time last year on boycotting China products(for covid) .. seems to have fizzled out, China believes this is their decade and there doing whatever they can to be the new leaders, they will then make a move away from the us dollar being the main global reserve currency

joseywhales

Deleted User wrote: »

They're entirely different things. There's no reason an Irish guy in Beijing would know anything about the Uyghurs. But they're obviously going to know if a pandemic is happening or not.

I doubt you yourself would notice Muslims disappearing off the streets in Ireland if it were happening.

I live and work in the US, a covid hotspot. I have a pretty large family in Ireland. Throughout the entire pandemic, I have not met or even heard of a single person, known personally to me, that will confirm at least, that they have contracted covid. Either people don't report it or it is mostly affecting a different demographic or both. I wouldn't rely on testimonials. I will grant you that obviously if there were huge outbreaks in metro areas where ex pats live we would hear about it, they would be basically forced to expose it. I do not believe however that china's ability to impose draconian measures on its population with near total compliance has eradicated the virus to a negligible level. That is their narrative, I don't know either way but I imagine there are cases undetected or unreported.

MikeSoys

MikeSoys wrote: »

Thats awful, there was allot of talk this time last year on boycotting China products(for covid) .. seems to have fizzled out, China believes this is their decade and there doing whatever they can to be the new leaders, they will then make a move away from the us dollar being the main global reserve currency

It's been tried before, and never amounted to anything. They'll try again with the same results. The West has too much international economic power, and China isn't even remotely comparable to it. Besides, nobody wants to rely on China's stability. Which makes perfect sense.

There is still a lot of talk about boycotting Chinese products, or companies leaving China as a gesture, but it won't amount to much because they still provide a necessary service. Vietnam will do well out of it, but all the same, there aren't many alternatives to China right now. Another ten or twenty years down the line, and that might be different... but that's not where things are now.

Perfectly hammers home my point about how we accept our own faults but criticise others. If you're an Irish person angry about carbon taxes, and you are angry at China who have the same emissions per capita as Ireland, instead of being angry at America who have twice Ireland's emissions per capita, you're hopelessly biased.

They could put big taxes on trucks like the F-150, and tax petrol so it's in line with Europe, and it would change the world. Or we can tell China they're not allowed to develop their country, literally centuries after the west started emitting CO2.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Perfectly hammers home my point about how we accept our own faults but criticise others. If you're an Irish person angry about carbon taxes, and you are angry at China who have the same emissions per capita as Ireland, instead of being angry at America who has twice Ireland's emissions per capita, you're hopelessly biased.

TBH I find a similar attitude to politics and corruption. The West just manages the spin better. Bush and Blair launched a destabilizing war based on lies told to the world, and... nothing happened to any of the parties involved. Behaviors like this, by western politicians are glossed over and forgotten. Just as the dodgy antics of our own politicians like Bertie and Co, prior and during the Banking crash, have been allowed to sink into the background, with no accountability being applied.

And before someone goes nuts, this is not meant to be a equal comparison. It's about the spirit of the thing. We have a wide range of behaviors, corruption, etc which tends to be ignored. We talk about the West as being some gold standard of behavior, but Italy and Spain are remarkably corrupt nations. The same can be said for many other western nations... and yet, we pretend that western nations are so much better on every front.

Having lived in both Europe and Asia, there are definitely better aspects to western countries, but there's also a willful desire towards ignorance, and forgetfulness. A double standard, whereby non-western nations are held to standards that we don't apply to ourselves, except when it's convenient, and usually limited in scope.

MikeSoys

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Perfectly hammers home my point about how we accept our own faults but criticise others. If you're an Irish person angry about carbon taxes, and you are angry at China who have the same emissions per capita as Ireland, instead of being angry at America who have twice Ireland's emissions per capita, you're hopelessly biased.

They could put big taxes on trucks like the F-150, and tax petrol so it's in line with Europe, and it would change the world. Or we can tell China they're not allowed to develop their country, literally centuries after the west started emitting CO2.

I believe China products 30% of all CO2 emissions and under the Paris climate agreement they won't need to reduce their emissions until 2030..so yeah China is doing well. I remember hearing the joke last year as covid was made in China it won't last long

MikeSoys

MikeSoys wrote: »

I believe China products 30% of all CO2 emissions and under the Paris climate agreement they won't need to reduce their emissions until 2030..so yeah China is doing well. I remember hearing the joke last year as covid was made in China it won't last long

If China were split into 50 countries, each with 30 million people, would you be complaining about "Those goddamn 50 Asian countries and their CO2 emissions and pandemics!"? Fact is their size just means they can be easily be blamed for everything by people who don't understand big numbers.

clever user name

joseywhales wrote: »

How does anyone know what is happening in china, I mean you could tell me they have lost .00001% or 15% of their population and I wouldn't be surprised either way, I also wouldn't believe that either. Basically it's a mystery, why would anyone have any confidence in anything that comes from their government?

I don't know the answer, but can maybe give an insight.

I live in China. My job means I deal with people all over China on a daily basis, both Chinese and non-Chinese. I've been here for 5 years and lived in 3 different cities, so have gotten to know quite a few people. I don't know a single person that caught COVID here. And I know plenty of people in the same boat. Call that luck, or whatever, but I know dozens of people at home who have gotten it. Heck, I probably know more people here at this stage than I do at home.

I fully believe there were far more deaths than reported in Wuhan/Hubei. But not so much in other parts of China. That's been my takeaway.

clever user name

clever user name wrote: »

I don't know the answer, but can maybe give an insight.

I live in China. My job means I deal with people all over China on a daily basis, both Chinese and non-Chinese. I've been here for 5 years and lived in 3 different cities, so have gotten to know quite a few people. I don't know a single person that caught COVID here. And I know plenty of people in the same boat. Call that luck, or whatever, but I know dozens of people at home who have gotten it. Heck, I probably know more people here at this stage than I do at home.

I fully believe there were far more deaths than reported in Wuhan/Hubei. But not so much in other parts of China. That's been my takeaway.

I'd be of the same opinion. I've been there over a decade, have a wide range of contacts throughout the country, and I don't know of anyone who's gotten it. A few people talking about extended family, or friends of friends, but nothing definite.

clever user name

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd be of the same opinion. I've been there over a decade, have a wide range of contacts throughout the country, and I don't know of anyone who's gotten it. A few people talking about extended family, or friends of friends, but nothing definite.

Yeah people find it baffling, but I honestly don't know a single person who tested positive here.

I remember last year you mentioning in one of the thread that you lived in Xi'an, did you manage to make it back?

clever user name

clever user name wrote: »

Yeah people find it baffling, but I honestly don't know a single person who tested positive here.

I remember last year you mentioning in one of the thread that you lived in Xi'an, did you manage to make it back?

Nope. I've been here in Ireland all year. Online classes, ugh.

My plan is to return in August/September for the next semester start. Hopefully, I'll have the vaccine by then, and things will be returning to normal for travel.

clever user name

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope. I've been here in Ireland all year. Online classes, ugh.

My plan is to return in August/September for the next semester start. Hopefully, I'll have the vaccine by then, and things will be returning to normal for travel.

Well the good news is there is now a decent Irish bar in Xi'an

clever user name

clever user name wrote: »

Well the good news is there is now a decent Irish bar in Xi'an

Just in time for me to be finished with the city. Nah. I'm aiming to move elsewhere for the next few years. 8 years is enough in any Chinese city. Just trying to decide where... Not too North, but at the same time, try to avoid their incredible humidity of many southern areas. It's so exciting. :pac:

clever user name

clever user name wrote: »

I don't know the answer, but can maybe give an insight.

I live in China. My job means I deal with people all over China on a daily basis, both Chinese and non-Chinese. I've been here for 5 years and lived in 3 different cities, so have gotten to know quite a few people. I don't know a single person that caught COVID here. And I know plenty of people in the same boat. Call that luck, or whatever, but I know dozens of people at home who have gotten it. Heck, I probably know more people here at this stage than I do at home.

I fully believe there were far more deaths than reported in Wuhan/Hubei. But not so much in other parts of China. That's been my takeaway.

I live in Ireland and only know one family that caught it, and 3 of them work in a hospital.

caoty

Kashgar Coffee Shop chat with local Uyghur in the middle of "Genocide"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MegOgHNhoNw

dwayneshintzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope. I've been here in Ireland all year. Online classes, ugh.

My plan is to return in August/September for the next semester start. Hopefully, I'll have the vaccine by then, and things will be returning to normal for travel.

Any more talk on the necessity for a Chinese vaccine to be eligible for a visa? Or any chance that Biontech will be considered "Chinese" once production starts up in Fosun?


I (anecdotally) know of quite a few people in HK who took Sinovac over Biontech purely for mainland visa/travel purposes.

donaghs

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Any more talk on the necessity for a Chinese vaccine to be eligible for a visa? Or any chance that Biontech will be considered "Chinese" once production starts up in Fosun?


I (anecdotally) know of quite a few people in HK who took Sinovac over Biontech purely for mainland visa/travel purposes.

Sinovac seems to be the main factor in South America’s high vaccination rate coupled with rising COVID cases. i.e. it’s efficacy is very poor compared with Pfizer/moderna/astraz etc. All sorts of people won’t publicly say that though to avoid the wrath of the Chinese government.

donaghs

donaghs wrote: »

Sinovac seems to be the main factor in South America’s high vaccination rate coupled with rising COVID cases. i.e. it’s efficacy is very poor compared with Pfizer/moderna/astraz etc. All sorts of people won’t publicly say that though to avoid the wrath of the Chinese government.

Many analysts and doctors have said that the Chinese vaccine was unreliable. The first batches were considered iffy, and there were plenty of reports talking about it. The second round seems to be much better.

Any more talk on the necessity for a Chinese vaccine to be eligible for a visa? Or any chance that Biontech will be considered "Chinese" once production starts up in Fosun?

Anyone who has received the Chinese vaccine has their visa requests streamlined for access to China. That's on the Chinese Embassy website. No mention of similar streamlining for anyone with a different vaccine though.

You can still get a visa without the vaccine. It's just difficult to get all the documentation considering how many things are closed in Ireland right now. I've spoken to the embassy about it, and my docs from two years ago will still count for an application, although a new Garda letter is needed. Still.. I'll wait for the vaccine before travelling.

No idea about Biontech.

drunkmonkey

Is this noteworthy..

https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1389525913881153536?s=20

donaghs

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Is this noteworthy..

https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1389525913881153536?s=20

I don’t really understand this. And I’ve done a bit of Googling on this dr chetty too. Can you please give a brief synopsis?

drunkmonkey

donaghs wrote: »

I don’t really understand this. And I’ve done a bit of Googling on this dr chetty too. Can you please give a brief synopsis?

I don't have a clue myself but I'll look into it, I just noticed repurposed drug from China and thought someone might be following it.

drunkmonkey

Can't find much myself, isn't what I thought it was which was a drug them may have been using in China. They were open before the vaccine.

Captcha

caoty wrote: »

Kashgar Coffee Shop chat with local Uyghur in the middle of "Genocide"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MegOgHNhoNw

Nice propaganda there, loook this person has no genocide so there must be no genocide... nazis did the same propaganda

caoty

Captcha wrote: »

Nice propaganda there, loook this person has no genocide so there must be no genocide... nazis did the same propaganda

Show us the dead bodies (must be in hundreds of thousands) and show us the fleeing refugees (must be in millions).

DaSilva

This thread is really the quintessential pandemic discussion.

The thread title suggests the topic is about China and the pandemic, but its really just an opportunity for people to spout heir naive underlying political beliefs and biases with the appearance that its some commentary on the pandemic.

DaSilva

DaSilva wrote: »

This thread is really the quintessential pandemic discussion.

The thread title suggests the topic is about China and the pandemic, but its really just an opportunity for people to spout heir naive underlying political beliefs and biases with the appearance that its some commentary on the pandemic.

Why, thank you! We really need someone like you to decide that the thread is unneeded. Your first contribution to the thread.

Hilarious.

Some people want to discuss various aspects related to China. Some is covid related, others are not. Whooptie do. Not interested? :rolleyes:

DaSilva

Deleted User wrote: »

Why, thank you! We really need someone like you to decide that the thread is unneeded. Your first contribution to the thread.

Hilarious.

Some people want to discuss various aspects related to China. Some is covid related, others are not. Whooptie do. Not interested? :rolleyes:

First off, it's not my first contribution to the thread, I have multiple posts in this thread. Second my point was just that so much pandemic related discussion is really just people using the pandemic as a talking point for their underlying beliefs, and as a result often their opinions on what should or shouldn't be done is tainted by their support or opposition for states or politics.