How is China getting on?

thebaz

Deleted User wrote: »

It is when there is zero evidence, beyond a variety of opinion pieces. When you can produce some solid evidence that it happened, then, it steps out of the conspiracy theory category.

Where is the evidence anywhere where virus originated, that was my original point , is it the wet market that was source ?

If so, surely all wet markets should be closed or operated in a healthy safe manner, not just in China but all over Asia and wherever they are operated.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

New Zealand had the advantage of remoteness and being an Island and a small population.

It makes no sense that countries with large populations and land borders could achieve the same lockdown. That they are police states and rigidly control their populations accounts for some of it, but also means they censor and control most of what you hear anyway. It's also means the population isn't subservient otherwise you wouldn't need police state.

Also controlling international travel doesn't help if it originated internally and spreads internally. Also if international travel was successfully controlled how did it get out of the country and spread all over the planet.

China is the classic boy who cried wolf. Even if it's true that that they managed to beat all the odds here. They would never tell us the truth anyway.

So what you're really asking people is to believe that China is taking the truth. When China never tells the truth about anything.

Ireland: My mum worried about getting stopped by police going to the park because of distance limits.
Vietnam and China: Months at a time with people not wearing masks or even thinking about Covid-19. Then outbreak and masks. Then eradicated and back to no masks.

Yeah, police states.

Also, you're asking how it got out of Wuhan, before anyone knew it existed, when international controls are about keeping something out, and not in?

thebaz

Deleted User wrote: »

So what? CCP/Chinese culture has always been opposed to the sharing of information with external organisations, especially organisations with links to the US. Anyone who thought they would be transparent with the WHO, knows nothing about China, and is simply looking for reasons to be outraged.

So what ??
given the carnage and devastion caused by virus I would like to think any country would be forthcoming with sharing of information on how that virus started , so as to ensure nothing similar happens again, or reduce risk. I think that is a valid reason to be outraged , and yet not shocked by CCP response.

MikeSoys

years ago iinternation inspectors were in this lab in China (stand checks nothing too intrusive) but allot of slack controls were identified and staff also suggested controls were casual, the west decided they should have a plan of action if something ever did get out of one of these labs (somewhere in the world),.. years later boom! ..there is a global pandamic.
China seems like its back to nomal now as they have more control of its people then the rest -

Also shout out to the china bot tracking my neg. messages, keep her lit !

archer22

What's all the "CCP" nonsense here

The name of the country is "The Peoples Republic of China" or PRC.

Those who keep calling it the CCP obviously have an agenda not an opinion :rolleyes:

thebaz

thebaz wrote: »

So what ??
given the carnage and devastion caused by virus I would like to think any country would be forthcoming with sharing of information on how that virus started , so as to ensure nothing similar happens again, or reduce risk. I think that is a valid reason to be outraged , and yet not shocked by CCP response.

Whereas, I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't. Look at the European response to the virus. I returned to Ireland in January from China, knowing that the virus existed, and I found zero preparation by western nations in any of the airports I went through. Nothing. Not even a questionnaire... and that attitude remained for months after...

As for how it started, I love how people suddenly trust the WHO now that there's a suggestion that they believe it started in China, but any other observation is suspect. Again, there is no evidence that this came from a lab... except for some opinion pieces, and in the case of most viruses, it takes decades to determine the chain of events that led to a virus being transmitted to humans. But nah, we're going to know quickly about China, because.... It's just obvious!

If you want to be outraged, be outraged over how western nations handled this. Be outraged over the US, with it's intelligence services focused on China, but somehow managed to avoid learning about the virus... there's a conspiracy theory for you. That the US knew, and didn't tell anyone else.

thebaz

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want to be outraged, be outraged over how western nations handled this. Be outraged over the US, with it's intelligence services focused on China, but somehow managed to avoid learning about the virus... there's a conspiracy theory for you. That the US knew, and didn't tell anyone else.

Why do you keep infering conspiracy theory when you are saying ther is no hard evidence where virus originated - I just asked a legitimate question where and how did virus originate ?

Flinty997

thebaz wrote: »

Why do you keep infering conspiracy theory when you are saying ther is no hard evidence where virus originated - I just asked a legitimate question where and how did virus originate ?

No one knows. But its unlikely the fire causing smoke is located a different location to that smoke.

thebaz

thebaz wrote: »

Why do you keep infering conspiracy theory when you are saying ther is no hard evidence where virus originated - I just asked a legitimate question where and how did virus originate ?

Because you started with the suggestion that the virus came from a Chinese lab in Wuhan. Hence the reference to a conspiracy theory since you have no evidence to support such a supposition.

As for where the virus originated, I'm skeptical. Wuhan is a huge transport hub, so I think the virus could easily have come from elsewhere, and was simply discovered/identified in Wuhan. In any case, it's far too early to be able to determine anything with any kind of certainty, and so, I'm not ready to form any definite opinions on the source of the virus. From what I've read of other viruses, it takes decades for the investigation into the source to bear any real considerations, and even then, there's little definitive evidence, and mostly just informed guesses.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Whereas, I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't. Look at the European response to the virus. I returned to Ireland in January from China, knowing that the virus existed, and I found zero preparation by western nations in any of the airports I went through. Nothing. Not even a questionnaire... and that attitude remained for months after...

As for how it started, I love how people suddenly trust the WHO now that there's a suggestion that they believe it started in China, but any other observation is suspect. Again, there is no evidence that this came from a lab... except for some opinion pieces, and in the case of most viruses, it takes decades to determine the chain of events that led to a virus being transmitted to humans. But nah, we're going to know quickly about China, because.... It's just obvious!

If you want to be outraged, be outraged over how western nations handled this. Be outraged over the US, with it's intelligence services focused on China, but somehow managed to avoid learning about the virus... there's a conspiracy theory for you. That the US knew, and didn't tell anyone else.

The evidence being used by many that it came from the lab is that it was possible it could have came from the lab therefore it did.

Occams Razor applies - in the absence of evidence to the contrary the simplest solution is likely the correct one. And that is that its likely the virus transferred to humans in exactly the same way as all others viruses have throughout history and beyond

Glaceon

Deleted User wrote: »

Sky News Australia news readers obviously undergo training from Tucker Carlsson. All about presenting a polemic direct to camera. But this comes from people who's job is to read an autocue. Would have some credibility if they at least interviewed someone qualified to speak on the matter

Sky News Australia is the Australian version of Fox News and is under the same Murdoch ownership. They have no corporate connection to Sky UK anymore, which is owned by NBC/Comcast. I'm surprised that they can keep using the Sky name.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

So what you're really asking people is to believe that China is taking the truth. When China never tells the truth about anything.

They are hardly North Korea. There are millions of smartphones. Probably more than a billion.

Also why do people believe that China is an authoritarian state and also that their lockdowns wouldn’t work. They locked people into apartment blocks. That kind of thing works.

Flinty997

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland: My mum worried about getting stopped by police going to the park because of distance limits.
Vietnam and China: Months at a time with people not wearing masks or even thinking about Covid-19. Then outbreak and masks. Then eradicated and back to no masks.

Yeah, police states.

Also, you're asking how it got out of Wuhan, before anyone knew it existed, when international controls are about keeping something out, and not in?

Its not possible to have spread it externally, without first spreading it internally.
Its chicken and egg.

No country has managed to contain spreading it internally. The only ones to buck that trend. Are a remote Island, or a Police state with a history of disinformation.

Also in every country its mostly hit the elderly and that really only been stopped with Vaccine roll out. Yet China has a slow rollout of the vaccine and not to the elderly. Should be much worse than other places, but somehow isn't.

Flinty997

fvp4 wrote: »

They are hardly North Korea. There are millions of smartphones. Probably more than a billion.

Also why do people believe that China is an authoritarian state and also that their lockdowns wouldn’t work. They locked people into apartment blocks. That kind of thing works.

You only really really fix pandemics with herd immunity through vaccines.

Except China.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

Its not possible to have spread it externally, without first spreading it internally.
Its chicken and egg.

No country has managed to contain spreading it internally. The only ones to buck that trend. Are a remote Island, or a Police state with a history of disinformation.

Also in every country its mostly hit the elderly and that really only been stopped with Vaccine roll out. Yet China has a slow rollout of the vaccine and not to the elderly. Should be much worse than other places, but somehow isn't.

Vietnam has stopped it multiple times. I teach in a school of five thousand students here and there is quite simply no way there is a hidden pandemic. No one thinks there is outside of some posters on this website. Based on my experience here and from talking to my friends in China, I don't see why their experience with very similar measures wouldn't have worked.

And it makes sense. You're speaking from experience in a country where the infected are allowed live with their families and where airports were opened for a year, and still are with nonsense lists. You simply don't know what a proper response looks like.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

You only really really fix pandemics with herd immunity through vaccines.

Except China.

Why except China? They've vaccinated a large percentage of their population already. I know, for a fact, that all the university students and faculty members in Xi'an have all been given the vaccine. Also many of the cities have given free vaccination to foreigners living in China. That's pretty impressive, all in all.

The steps in dealing with covid might be different but the end result is the same.

Flinty997

Deleted User wrote: »

Vietnam has stopped it multiple times. I teach in a school of five thousand students here and there is quite simply no way there is a hidden pandemic. No one thinks there is outside of some posters on this website. Based on my experience here and from talking to my friends in China, I don't see why their experience with very similar measures wouldn't have worked.

And it makes sense. You're speaking from experience in a country where the infected are allowed live with their families and where airports were opened for a year, and still are with nonsense lists. You simply don't know what a proper response looks like.

I've no idea what's happening and don't really care.

But if you've stopped it multiple times. You've never actually stopped it. It a oxymoron if thats the right word.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

Its not possible to have spread it externally, without first spreading it internally.
Its chicken and egg.

Except, all it takes is one person with the virus to travel internationally for it to spread. Look at the Italian doctor working in Spain (or was it the other way around), who came into contact with many people, and unintentionally spread the virus.

There's no requirement on a large percentage of a population needing to have the virus before it can spread elsewhere.

No country has managed to contain spreading it internally. The only ones to buck that trend. Are a remote Island, or a Police state with a history of disinformation.

S.Korea, Taiwan, Japan, etc have all managed to limit/contain the spread of the virus effectively. Although, they have all very strict cultures and are used to managing their populations.

When you place greater importance on individual freedoms (the west) over the greater good (Asia), then, your ability to limit the spread will be greatly affected.

Also in every country its mostly hit the elderly and that really only been stopped with Vaccine roll out. Yet China has a slow rollout of the vaccine and not to the elderly. Should be much worse than other places, but somehow isn't.

Agreed (about the elderly). Although, their rollout hasn't been that slow. Its just the overall size of their population that gives the impression that it's been slow... in comparison with other nations, they've been quite quick to supply vaccines to the population.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

You only really really fix pandemics with herd immunity through vaccines.

Except China.

That’s the long term fix. Lockdowns work, as they did here for a while and in New Zealand.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

I've no idea what's happening and don't really care.

But if you've stopped it multiple times. You've never actually stopped it. It a oxymoron if thats the right word.

Why are you posting here?

And if the rest of the world stopped it as well, it would be gone. But there is some illegal entry from China, Laos and Cambodia, and there was also cross contamination between an Indian delegation and a Chinese one in hotel quarantine. They've upped it to three weeks now in response.

If you don't understand that a country can stop it, and then it comes back, as if that's an oxymoron, you're not fit to talk about this topic. It's like saying you never got rid of the hiccups because you hiccuped again months later.

Flinty997

Deleted User wrote: »

Why except China? They've vaccinated a large percentage of their population already. I know, for a fact, that all the university students and faculty members in Xi'an have all been given the vaccine. Also many of the cities have given free vaccination to foreigners living in China. That's pretty impressive, all in all.

The steps in dealing with covid might be different but the end result is the same.

I didn't know about China Vaccines until a friend mentioned their parents are too old to get vaccinated. You've claimed they've done a large % of the population. Other sources say they been slow, and the vaccine have low protection rates. I only fact check it, if someone makes claim like you did.

All can't right, and the stats don't seem to align with any of these strategies, for example no vaccinating the elderly.

Flinty997

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are you posting here?

Maybe I should have said I'm not invested in it. I'm just a curious observer.

Deleted User wrote: »

And if the rest of the world stopped it as well, it would be gone. But there is some illegal entry from China, Laos and Cambodia, and there was also cross contamination between an Indian delegation and a Chinese one in hotel quarantine. They've upped it to three weeks now in response.

If you don't understand that a country can stop it, and then it comes back, as if that's an oxymoron, you're not fit to talk about this topic. It's like saying you never got rid of the hiccups because you hiccuped again months later.

Lockdown slows it. But doesn't stop it. Which why there's outbreaks and surges. A hard lockdown is better. But still not watertight. So the idea that they completely eliminated it, pre vaccine with lock downs doesn't really hold water.

archer22

archer22 wrote: »

What's all the "CCP" nonsense here

The name of the country is "The Peoples Republic of China" or PRC.

Those who keep calling it the CCP obviously have an agenda not an opinion :rolleyes:

The ruling party in China is the Chinese Communist Party. They are in charge and make the rules. The PRC is the country.

Its exactly the same as people commenting on the actions of our government by saying FF/FG.

Flinty997

fvp4 wrote: »

That’s the long term fix. Lockdowns work, as they did here for a while and in New Zealand.

Agreed. But its not the silver bullet even in a remote island. So can't possible be anywhere else.

Flinty997

Deleted User wrote: »

The ruling party in China is the Chinese Communist Party. They are in charge and make the rules. The PRC is the country.

Its exactly the same as people commenting on the actions of our government by saying FF/FG.

What other parties are there and what's their influence.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The ruling party in China is the Chinese Communist Party. They are in charge and make the rules. The PRC is the country.

Its exactly the same as people commenting on the actions of our government by saying FF/FG.

I've never heard anyone describe the actions of Ireland (the nation) by the name of the ruling party. Within Ireland, by Irish people, sure, but I've never heard such a thing being applied to other national behavior.

Flinty997

Deleted User wrote: »

Except, all it takes is one person with the virus to travel internationally for it to spread. Look at the Italian doctor working in Spain (or was it the other way around), who came into contact with many people, and unintentionally spread the virus.

There's no requirement on a large percentage of a population needing to have the virus before it can spread elsewhere.

It not the immaculate conception. It can't be exported, unless you have it internally. You can't do things like only test people with symptoms, only report people with symptoms, not vaccine the elderly, etc, and not have it internally. Yes they have a strict lockdown, but they also lifted it every quickly. Everywhere else lifting the lockdown caused a massive surges, even with much smaller populations. It maybe due to other factors like genetics, and other things.

Deleted User wrote: »

S.Korea, Taiwan, Japan, etc have all managed to limit/contain the spread of the virus effectively. Although, they have all very strict cultures and are used to managing their populations.

When you place greater importance on individual freedoms (the west) over the greater good (Asia), then, your ability to limit the spread will be greatly affected.

Agreed

Deleted User wrote: »

Agreed (about the elderly). Although, their rollout hasn't been that slow. Its just the overall size of their population that gives the impression that it's been slow... in comparison with other nations, they've been quite quick to supply vaccines to the population.

They were months ahead of the entire world, but are behind in vaccines relative to their population and the rest of the world. The rest of the world need the Vaccine to get any traction on the pandamic, to get close to what China achieved without it.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

Maybe I should have said I'm not invested in it. I'm just a curious observer.



Lockdown slows it. But doesn't stop it. Which why there's outbreaks and surges. A hard lockdown is better. But still not watertight. So the idea that they completely eliminated it, pre vaccine with lock downs doesn't really hold water.

*Cough *cough Taiwan *cough Vietnam *cough *cough

Flinty997

Deleted User wrote: »

*Cough *cough Taiwan *cough Vietnam *cough *cough

Isn't Taiwan China cough cough...and an Island.

Vietnam is whole different story.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

What other parties are there and what's their influence.

There are 8 other parties. Their influence is zero.